Warrior balance preview

[Lighter.5631]

dual wield should buff off hand weapon skills to be better versions with better mechanic

like make axe 5 reflect

Edited October 29, 2023 by Lighter.5631

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

9 hours ago, Lighter.5631 said:

and why more CC traits, defense already have adrenaline on CC, now arms also adrenaline on CC?...CC does no damage in pvp/wvw and CC skills for warrior are slow and clunky AF to use. how about fix this instead of over stacking effects..

The bigger buff  there is the CD reduction. The extra source to proc the trait is just icing on the cake.

[Flallen.4598]

I really like the changes to Opportunist and Burst Precision. Those seem interesting. Soldier's Comfort buffs are nice but not going far enough but it is the right direction.

I am really disappointed that there was nothing to tune Spellbreaker up in WvW after all the nerfs. Break Enchantments and Winds of Disenchantment both feel really underwhelming right now. I also wanted to see more work put into making the utilities and weapons better. Most of them under-perform to the point where I wouldn't bother with them.

[HeliosMagi.9867]

On 10/27/2023 at 3:11 PM, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Heightened Focus: This trait will now also recharge all burst skills when it activates. Reduced the cooldown from 15 seconds to 12 seconds.

I would also change it so that it could trigger against Defiant foes regardless of their health, so that against Bosses it's not literally doing nothing for the first half of the fight.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

58 minutes ago, HeliosMagi.9867 said:

I would also change it so that it could trigger against Defiant foes regardless of their health, so that against Bosses it's not literally doing nothing for the first half of the fight.

That would be a little over the top.

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

Lotta love for warrior this patch. Us necros got it good too, save few meaningless buffs to skills that underperform for reasons wholly different than just their numbers.
Berserker is the big winner here and arms changes look juicy.

Support warr buffs (better healing scaling, incoming and outgoing heal effectiveness and longer prot) do indeed seem to pave way for staff. But we'll see.

Still I don't see offhand mace getting picked much even after the changes.
Tremor is simply very slow and for that reasons sucks as a catch up tool and the lack of both defense and mobility on this weapon is very real.
 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

2 hours ago, ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

Lotta love for warrior this patch. Us necros got it good too, save few meaningless buffs to skills that underperform for reasons wholly different than just their numbers.
Berserker is the big winner here and arms changes look juicy.

Support warr buffs (better healing scaling, incoming and outgoing heal effectiveness and longer prot) do indeed seem to pave way for staff. But we'll see.

Still I don't see offhand mace getting picked much even after the changes.
Tremor is simply very slow and for that reasons sucks as a catch up tool and the lack of both defense and mobility on this weapon is very real.
 

Yeah, warrior ate good this time. Still weird that they didn't touch Dual Wielding though, way to underpowered to be a GM trait.

OH mace still won't get used. Crushing Blow needs a 1/4s cast to function as intended and Tremor needs to not be a projectile for it to get used in 2 of the 3 game modes.

[Eclipse.2543]

Loving the berserker QoL improvements!

Now all we need is for Anet to revert the #3spin Arc Divider, for maximum Berserker enjoyment.

[EphemeralWallaby.7643]

On 10/28/2023 at 9:35 PM, Lighter.5631 said:

dual wield should buff off hand weapon skills to be better versions with better mechanic

like make axe 5 reflect

I'd like to keep the increased attack speed... but making the trait a bit more like Sun and Moon Style would be welcome.

~EpWa

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

21 minutes ago, EphemeralWallaby.7643 said:

I'd like to keep the increased attack speed... but making the trait a bit more like Sun and Moon Style would be welcome.

~EpWa

The only way the IAS should stay is if they made it stack with quickness, or changed it to make quickness more effective by giving back the original attack speed increase from launch. The IAS as is does not work well with the IAS from Berserk or quickness and is pretty much useless. It was good back in 2012 when quickness was much harder to come by, but now it is essentially a dead trait.

[EphemeralWallaby.7643]

1 hour ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

The only way the IAS should stay is if they made it stack with quickness, or changed it to make quickness more effective by giving back the original attack speed increase from launch. The IAS as is does not work well with the IAS from Berserk or quickness and is pretty much useless. It was good back in 2012 when quickness was much harder to come by, but now it is essentially a dead trait.

I don't agree with your reasoning on many points.

According to the wiki, quickness increases attack speed, but not aftercast creating an overall 33% increased attack effectiveness, whereas DW does affect aftercast meaning its listed 20% is accurate (again, according to the wiki)... making it not that much worse than quickness... add to that DW is not a boon, and doesn't require jumping through hoops to maintain, and that alone makes it very desirable to me...

...Especially when utilizing the mh-sword, a hybrid weapon I like to use, allowing for both strike and condis to be applied faster.  MH sword and axe doe not benefit from Aggressive Onslaught, one of the primary means of maintaining quickness in the warrior's kit.  And, both weapons are viable outside of Berserker's BoA/HtS.

Speaking of mh-axe, ime the quickness gained from dual strike absolutely sucks... and has to be added to other hoops to jump through to maintain... hoops like Charge, Combat Stimulant, and Frenzy... things that the only reason I'd take is for trying to stack quickness.  And, that's incredibly limiting.

Heightened Focus has too big of an ICD to be a reliable source of quickness' increased attack speed, and there are two other elite specialization as well as core builds that don't benefit from berserker's Burst of Aggression and Heat the Soul.  Martial Cadence only provides quickness in WvW and PvP, and while that's great for those modes, they're minor modes compared to PvE.

The only other option for warrior I know of is stacking relic of the cavalier with cup of light-roasted coffee and sigil of Agility... I've been testing such builds recently, and I'm finding them somewhat problematic for the longer-lasting fights, which I think are the fights that actually matter, but effective for quick fights.

1-H weapons, other than dagger, have kitten game feel... they need an increased attack speed to be enjoyable.  DW provides that outside of the very specific builds that AO, Berserker, and other means I've mentioned allow.  And, certainly DW doesn't require me jumping through a lot of hoops to proc quickness just to feel like my weapon attacks fast enough. 

Finally there's the... hypocrisy, for lack of a better word... that the warrior's burst get rightly crapped on because all but one require hitting a target to be effective... but, gaining quickness by hitting a target is also an aspect of Dual Strike, Aggressive Onslaught, Martial Cadence, and Heightened Focus. 

DW is another option in our kit to band-aid the kitten weapon feel of Warrior weapons that hasn't been addressed by Anet.  So, all that's why I say don't get rid of it. 

I absolutely get it's not amazing... but saying it's out of date because of quickness... we're gunna have to disagree, sorry.

...imo, yadda, yadda

~EpWa

Edited November 18, 2023 by EphemeralWallaby.7643

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 hour ago, EphemeralWallaby.7643 said:

 

I absolutely get it's not amazing... but saying it's out of date because of quickness... we're gunna have to disagree, sorry.

...imo, yadda, yadda

~EpWa

I'm always willing to agree to disagree with people. But the amount of quickness available, be it from traits, utilities, or sigils and that DW does not stack with it, and even then that DW is only for combinations with Axe, Mace, or Sword in the offhand makes DW dead in the water. A power build is going to take Burst Precision, especially after Nov. 28th, and a condi build will always take Furious.

If DW stacked with quickness, or was for any weapon, then I'd agree with you.

[Jzaku.9765]

9 hours ago, EphemeralWallaby.7643 said:

I don't agree with your reasoning on many points.

According to the wiki, quickness increases attack speed, but not aftercast creating an overall 33% increased attack effectiveness, whereas DW does affect aftercast meaning its listed 20% is accurate (again, according to the wiki)... making it not that much worse than quickness... add to that DW is not a boon, and doesn't require jumping through hoops to maintain, and that alone makes it very desirable to me...

...Especially when utilizing the mh-sword, a hybrid weapon I like to use, allowing for both strike and condis to be applied faster.  MH sword and axe doe not benefit from Aggressive Onslaught, one of the primary means of maintaining quickness in the warrior's kit.  And, both weapons are viable outside of Berserker's BoA/HtS.

Speaking of mh-axe, ime the quickness gained from dual strike absolutely sucks... and has to be added to other hoops to jump through to maintain... hoops like Charge, Combat Stimulant, and Frenzy... things that the only reason I'd take is for trying to stack quickness.  And, that's incredibly limiting.

Heightened Focus has too big of an ICD to be a reliable source of quickness' increased attack speed, and there are two other elite specialization as well as core builds that don't benefit from berserker's Burst of Aggression and Heat the Soul.  Martial Cadence only provides quickness in WvW and PvP, and while that's great for those modes, they're minor modes compared to PvE.

The only other option for warrior I know of is stacking relic of the cavalier with cup of light-roasted coffee and sigil of Agility... I've been testing such builds recently, and I'm finding them somewhat problematic for the longer-lasting fights, which I think are the fights that actually matter, but effective for quick fights.

1-H weapons, other than dagger, have kitten game feel... they need an increased attack speed to be enjoyable.  DW provides that outside of the very specific builds that AO, Berserker, and other means I've mentioned allow.  And, certainly DW doesn't require me jumping through a lot of hoops to proc quickness just to feel like my weapon attacks fast enough. 

Finally there's the... hypocrisy, for lack of a better word... that the warrior's burst get rightly crapped on because all but one require hitting a target to be effective... but, gaining quickness by hitting a target is also an aspect of Dual Strike, Aggressive Onslaught, Martial Cadence, and Heightened Focus. 

DW is another option in our kit to band-aid the kitten weapon feel of Warrior weapons that hasn't been addressed by Anet.  So, all that's why I say don't get rid of it. 

I absolutely get it's not amazing... but saying it's out of date because of quickness... we're gunna have to disagree, sorry.

...imo, yadda, yadda

~EpWa

The wiki isn't comprehensive as the overwhelming majority of it is user-submitted content. Attack Speed increases are Attack Speed increases no matter the source - meaning Quickness and Dual-Wielding both affect aftercast delay in the same way. I understand wanting a passive source of semi-quickness though. 

[draxynnic.3719]

I do wonder about the possibility of taking the Impossible Odds approach - replace the IAS with an extra strike of damage as long as you're using a suitable offhand.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

8 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

I do wonder about the possibility of taking the Impossible Odds approach - replace the IAS with an extra strike of damage as long as you're using a suitable offhand.

They won't do that. Dagger, Pistol, and Axe would proc it too much.

[Fueki.4753]

24 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

They won't do that. Dagger, Pistol, and Axe would proc it too much.

Does Dual Wielding even effect Pistol? Pistol is no right-handed weapon for Warrior, so it'd feel weird for the left-handed Pistol to trigger that trait.

Edited November 19, 2023 by Fueki.4753

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

39 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

Does Dual Wielding even effect Pistol? Pistol is no right-handed weapon for Warrior, so it'd feel weird for the left-handed Pistol to trigger that trait.

I mean if they changed it to activate an attack based on striking on an interval.

[EphemeralWallaby.7643]

44 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

Does Dual Wielding even effect Pistol? Pistol is no right-handed weapon for Warrior, so it'd feel weird for the left-handed Pistol to trigger that trait.

It didn't seem to when I tested it during the weapon mastery beta.  I was a bit disappointed in that.

~EpWa

[Fueki.4753]

58 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

I mean if they changed it to activate an attack based on striking on an interval.

I interpreted to conversation that the requirement for the right-handed weapon in the left hand still applies, just instead of attacking faster, it has a chance to grant an extra hit.

54 minutes ago, EphemeralWallaby.7643 said:

It didn't seem to when I tested it during the weapon mastery beta.

But it makes more sense that way.

Albeit it's in a sad way, because Warrior should have access to a right-handed Pistol.

Edited November 19, 2023 by Fueki.4753

[draxynnic.3719]

12 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

They won't do that. Dagger, Pistol, and Axe would proc it too much.

An appropriate interval for it should cover that. It would fit the theme that whichever weapon isn't being used to execute the skill in question will only be able to strike so often regardless of what crazy thing the currently-active weapon is doing.