Why is Rifle burst skill so bad

[SpaceMarine.1836]

Hi,

I am trying to figure out why is Rifle burst skill so bad compared to all other Warrior burst skills. I am mostly talking in PvP/WvW context. I will be using Guardian Longbow True Shot for comparison as it's also 1500 distance one-shot skill.

• The skill has same recharge as True Shot, but True Shot does not require special Adrenaline resource.
• The skill has nearly double the cast time of True Shot, making it so telegraphed it's almost exclusively possible to land only on downed bodies.
• The skill has pretty much identical damage to True Shot. True Shot has 735 base damage, while Kill Shot has 591-844 based on adrenaline level.
• Both skills are piercing.
• Both skills root you in place, but being rooted in place for nearly double the time of True Shot cast time is much more of a problem.

I just can't figure any balancing reasons that would justify this burst skill being so bad. I tried playing core warrior (not berserker, which has much better rifle burst skill) with Rifle for fun, and I realized I almost never use the burst skill simply because 95% of the time I am simply not in a position I could land it from. This is very bad given the fact that a lot of Warrior traits are depending on burst skill usage, like Adrenal Health, Burst Mastery and so on...

Can anyone explain what balancing reasons necessitate Kill Shot being so bad?

Edited November 1, 2023 by SpaceMarine.1836

[Aaron.1294]

@SpaceMarine.1836 different classes, more damage, old skill that anet simply forgot about (lots of those on warrior especially) and since feb patch in 2020 didn't receive any changes.

 

[SpaceMarine.1836]

2 hours ago, Aaron.1294 said:

@SpaceMarine.1836 different classes, more damage, old skill that anet simply forgot about (lots of those on warrior especially) and since feb patch in 2020 didn't receive any changes.

 

I thought this too originally, but then I thought that can't be the case since for example sword core burst skill, the Flurry, did receive update just a couple of months ago, making you no longer rooted in place when using it. That more than doubled its usefulness in PvP/WvW scenario. If core burst skills weren't forgotten, then Flurry would not receive such significant improvement.

But Kill shot is so bad that even with Leg Specialist (cripple causes immobilize) and Brutal Shot (if you manage to land it after nerf) the immobilization duration is not nearly long enough for the Kill Shot cast time to hit the enemy. The only way to get immobilize duration long enough to successfully hit anyone with the Kill Shot, you would need a LOT of expertise, at which point you have to sacrifice so much power stats the Rifle becomes unusable 😞

Edited November 1, 2023 by SpaceMarine.1836

[DanAlcedo.3281]

5 hours ago, SpaceMarine.1836 said:

I thought this too originally, but then I thought that can't be the case since for example sword core burst skill, the Flurry, did receive update just a couple of months ago, making you no longer rooted in place when using it. That more than doubled its usefulness in PvP/WvW scenario. If core burst skills weren't forgotten, then Flurry would not receive such significant improvement.

But Kill shot is so bad that even with Leg Specialist (cripple causes immobilize) and Brutal Shot (if you manage to land it after nerf) the immobilization duration is not nearly long enough for the Kill Shot cast time to hit the enemy. The only way to get immobilize duration long enough to successfully hit anyone with the Kill Shot, you would need a LOT of expertise, at which point you have to sacrifice so much power stats the Rifle becomes unusable 😞

We know friend. 

While other classes got nice updates in the recent years, Warrior was always an afterthought. It's just now that we get decent balance changes. 

They still do it in tiny steps but it's something. 

Maybe in 3 months after the next patch, we get the chance of finally removing 2012 design choices. 

[Verdict is Vengence.6912]

I main rifle warrior and have been using the meme one-shot build for quite a while.

Kill Shot is in fact outdated. If you don't have berserker stats, it's hard to get devastating numbers despite the long charge time and crazy obvious telegraphed animation that roots you in place.

Here's one tip for the telegraphed animation and root - make an asura character. They're so short that it's hard to tell they're kneeling for the Kill Shot and it hides the shot. Don't forget to reduce their height to the most minimal on character creation.

For the build, have Signet of Fury for adrenaline and Signet of Might to go through block. I can't tell you how many times people stand there blocking and are forced to eat my damage because they don't see the unblockable shot coming. (You can give up Signet of Fury but unblockable is kind of important, especially for Kill Shot)

With all that said, rifle warrior is far from top tier. There are too many ports, invis, CC, and condi in the game to make a decent 1v1 rifle warrior. The introduction of relics also took away one shot meme potential. It can still happen but one shot is harder without relic activation and having things like Berserker's Power and Signet of Ferocity already rolling.

IMO, meme one shot rifle warrior is a great +1 for fights since Kill Shot will still rock socks off. But for 1v1's, I don't recommend rifle warrior.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

3 hours ago, Verdict is Vengence.6912 said:

I main rifle warrior and have been using the meme one-shot build for quite a while.

Kill Shot is in fact outdated. If you don't have berserker stats, it's hard to get devastating numbers despite the long charge time and crazy obvious telegraphed animation that roots you in place.

Here's one tip for the telegraphed animation and root - make an asura character. They're so short that it's hard to tell they're kneeling for the Kill Shot and it hides the shot. Don't forget to reduce their height to the most minimal on character creation.

For the build, have Signet of Fury for adrenaline and Signet of Might to go through block. I can't tell you how many times people stand there blocking and are forced to eat my damage because they don't see the unblockable shot coming. (You can give up Signet of Fury but unblockable is kind of important, especially for Kill Shot)

With all that said, rifle warrior is far from top tier. There are too many ports, invis, CC, and condi in the game to make a decent 1v1 rifle warrior. The introduction of relics also took away one shot meme potential. It can still happen but one shot is harder without relic activation and having things like Berserker's Power and Signet of Ferocity already rolling.

IMO, meme one shot rifle warrior is a great +1 for fights since Kill Shot will still rock socks off. But for 1v1's, I don't recommend rifle warrior.

May I ask how much QQ you have encountered on your Travels? 

I'm curious. 

[Verdict is Vengence.6912]

1 hour ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

May I ask how much QQ you have encountered on your Travels? 

I'm curious. 

I only get QQ in pvp since it becomes pretty apparent the sudden downed states and the tiny lone gunman in the distance lol.

But it's different in WvW. The greatest thing about an asura sniper rifle warrior is that no one knows that it was you lol. I had one guy thank a thief in chat for helping him secure a kill against an annoying tanky enemy but it was the asura rifle warrior all along. Asura warrior sniper is so unnoticeable in wvw. There's a reason Deadeyes was designed to get that giant eye over their victim's head lol. A true unknown and unseen gunman is debilitating and wildly confusing.

[Widebody.5071]

15 hours ago, SpaceMarine.1836 said:

Hi,

I am trying to figure out why is Rifle burst skill so bad compared to all other Warrior burst skills. I am mostly talking in PvP/WvW context. I will be using Guardian Longbow True Shot for comparison as it's also 1500 distance one-shot skill.

• The skill has same recharge as True Shot, but True Shot does not require special Adrenaline resource.
• The skill has nearly double the cast time of True Shot, making it so telegraphed it's almost exclusively possible to land only on downed bodies.
• The skill has pretty much identical damage to True Shot. True Shot has 735 base damage, while Kill Shot has 591-844 based on adrenaline level.
• Both skills are piercing.
• Both skills root you in place, but being rooted in place for nearly double the time of True Shot cast time is much more of a problem.

I just can't figure any balancing reasons that would justify this burst skill being so bad. I tried playing core warrior (not berserker, which has much better rifle burst skill) with Rifle for fun, and I realized I almost never use the burst skill simply because 95% of the time I am simply not in a position I could land it from. This is very bad given the fact that a lot of Warrior traits are depending on burst skill usage, like Adrenal Health, Burst Mastery and so on...

Can anyone explain what balancing reasons necessitate Kill Shot being so bad?

Just an example of what results when people come into forums and complain day in and day out about how op warriors were back in the first few of years of the game. All driven by wvw and pvp moaners 

Unfortunately the givebacks promised for losing skill and trait affects never materialize.

[Widebody.5071]

6 hours ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

We know friend. 

While other classes got nice updates in the recent years, Warrior was always an afterthought. It's just now that we get decent balance changes. 

They still do it in tiny steps but it's something. 

Maybe in 3 months after the next patch, we get the chance of finally removing 2012 design choices. 

Warriors are always crapped on, especially by those who claim warrior mains but advocate for warrior nerfs because they are "too easy to play, unfun, boring, relay on passives, being carried by their armour, should not have condi damage, heavy armor should'nt run so fast, their stab is too strong ..." 

The pitiful part is it continue to this very day.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

There is no reason for Kill Shot to hit for what it does for having a resource requirement, along with the requirement to be in combat to access.

[Sandzibar.5134]

and thats why you run default models in pvp and wvw 😄 

[Widebody.5071]

24 minutes ago, Sandzibar.5134 said:

and thats why you run default models in pvp and wvw 😄 

The core model was the one most affected in my opinion. That's where all the trait nerfs, changes and removals took place.

There was nothing better then starting off fight with 1/2 of your adrenaline bars full or disengaging and carrying all your adrenaline with you.

The ability to outrun a kill squad in open field then leap off a1500 cliff wasn't too shabby neither.

Whoa the player at the end of your leap, they're getting bounced.

Edited November 2, 2023 by Widebody.5071

[JTGuevara.9018]

On 11/2/2023 at 6:57 AM, Widebody.5071 said:

Warriors are always crapped on, especially by those who claim warrior mains but advocate for warrior nerfs because they are "too easy to play, unfun, boring, relay on passives, being carried by their armour, should not have condi damage, heavy armor should'nt run so fast, their stab is too strong ..." 

The pitiful part is it continue to this very day.

Yup. Exactly. And I continuously counter-crap on that sentiment EVERY chance I get.

Heavy armor shouldn't "run so fast" and yet leathers and clothies can carry a heavy hammer or broadsword and move like Muhammad Ali? GTFO.

That crowd just needs to fess up. They don't want warriors to whoop their behinds and show 'em up. That's all it is.

 

[Widebody.5071]

Bladesworn's only problem is they're too guick, the swish you hear when they swing is them cutting through their enemies. It just happens so fast and the airflow is so sharp that the opposing player don't realize they've been cut so they continue with their attack only to die after you've revived.

Edited November 11, 2023 by Widebody.5071

[EphemeralWallaby.7643]

About the only time I use the rifle burst is during Teq.  When he's knocked down by the megalaser, you can position yourself to pierce through both feet or his head and 1 foot... and the rifle burst procing for over 50k crit damage combined due to the pierce feels pretty good when I'm running cele stats.

Other than that, yeah, pretty meh and very situational.

~EpWa

[Widebody.5071]

23 hours ago, EphemeralWallaby.7643 said:

About the only time I use the rifle burst is during Teq.  When he's knocked down by the megalaser, you can position yourself to pierce through both feet or his head and 1 foot... and the rifle burst procing for over 50k crit damage combined due to the pierce feels pretty good when I'm running cele stats.

Other than that, yeah, pretty meh and very situational.

~EpWa

 

Edited November 12, 2023 by Widebody.5071

[kiwituatara.6053]

Rifle + warrior needs a buff.