Form your own squad problem

[Cyninja.2954]

The first mistake is to assume that a hotjoin system solves any of the issues. It does not.

The issue lies not with creating a group of random players for the content. The issue lies with getting a random group of players able to "solve" the encounter. It always has. THIS is what needs solving. The grouping then follows suite.

The common suggestion to thus:"make your own group" is not as encouragement to solve the former issue. It is given to make people try their approach and realize IT DOESN'T WORK.

You not wanting to lead a raid group is akin to saying:"I don't want to understand why stuff doesn't work." Fine, then join a guild where someone else does it for you.

Players leaving your squad is literally them telling you:"We don't believe in your group composition or ability to lead us to success."

What makes you believe this won't happen with an automated system? On the contrary, with an automated system your group would get filled constantly, have experienced players leave continously, leaving only inexperienced players to fail repeatedly.

As to "why not change the game to fit an automated system"? That's akin to saying: Let's dumb down the encounters so an automated system can make the groups.

Edited February 18 by Cyninja.2954

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

24 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

The first mistake is to assume that a hotjoin system solves any of the issues. It does not.

The issue lies not with creating a group of random players for the content. The issue lies with getting a random group of players able to "solve" the encounter. It always has. THIS is what needs solving. The grouping then follows suite.

The common suggestion to thus:"make your own group" is not as encouragement to solve the former issue. It is given to make people try their approach and realize IT DOESN'T WORK.

You not wanting to lead a raid group is akin to saying:"I don't want to understand why stuff doesn't work." Fine, then join a guild where someone else does it for you.

Players leaving your squad is literally them telling you:"We don't believe in your group composition or ability to lead us to success."

What makes you believe this won't happen with an automated system? On the contrary, with an automated system your group would get filled constantly, have experienced players leave continously, leaving only inexperienced players to fail repeatedly.

As to "why not chance the game to fit an automated system"? That's akin to saying: Let's dumb down the encounters so an automated system can make the groups.

Another issue people don't see is that for a hotjoin system to work Anet would have to force builds into certain roles and then you'd get the mixing and matching of roles depending on what was found already.

Many people asking for hotjoin style stuff ask for public IBS Strike-like hotjoin system.. even though we can already see how popular public IBS Strikes are.

Edited February 18 by IAmNotMatthew.1058

[Passerbye.6291]

Whenever an LFG complaint thread pops up, it is almost always accompanied by complaints about KP and/or "gatekeeping". People complain that almost all groups on LFG require KP, preventing them from doing X or Y content, to which others inevitably respond by telling said people to make their own groups.

Now, let's go over this, first things first, you making your own groups in no way means you need to be a raid leader, being a raid leader and making your own group on LFG are two vastly different things. You don't necessarily need to manage your subsquads or make call outs if you don't wish to, all you need to do is make an LFG group and ask for people if you wish to have a no requirement group. I'm sure this would take noone multiple hours a day to do. The issue with this approach is, when you make a no KP group, believe me I make no KP groups to this day, and just say "know the mechanics" your squad gets flooded by people who have absolutely no clue what they are doing and will cause wipes every opportunity they get. This here, is the real reason why most people complaining about the LFG system don't want to make their own groups. A lot of these people think they are better than other no KP players and that they deserve to be allowed in KP squads, since they aren't bad like other people are! Except half the people who think they are good are in fact bad, very bad, laughably bad at times.

Now, if you want the current pug meta squad composition, namely 2x boon dps, 2x boon heal, 6x dps and one of the healers to be the tank, this is really all you need to mention, you can even avoid the risk of boon dps and boon heal providing the same boons by specifically mentioning what boon heal you want. Quick herald being exceptionally good currently often means you'd want 2x qdps heralds and 2xalacheals, in fact ask for alacheal scourges since heal scourge is really hard to be bad at and hard carries through mechanics that down people without proper management of skills like a druid would require. I don't see how this is hours of effort on your end.

When it comes to introducing a group finder to the game, this solves exactly 0 of the problems. ESO does have a group finder, and that game has a very simple role distribution consisting of dps, heal and tank, no special roles, and it still fails, because sometimes you'll get a guy who can tank, heal at the same time and still outdps the people who signed up as dps, which works great for the others, but then most of the time, you'll get a guy who attempts that and fails miserably, so now you have a mediocre dps with little to no healing occupying the tank's space to get a faster que. Alternately, you get a great dedicated tank, as well as an amazing healer, but your dps player is a single father of 68 who thinks anything more than auto attacking is tryharding. In all of these circumstances, people will still end up leaving your group, just the way they do on LFG, if anything, LFG solves some of the issues because you can filter out people who can't read.

Going back to raid leading, people who lead raids don't randomly spawn from the mystic forge, I had to step up for that role for my guildmates, and when I first started I was leading runs while knowing less than half the squad I was in with, all I did to prepare was watch or read short guides and then figure the rest on the way. It is ok to start from scratch, you're not expected to know all the details on every single mechanics, most people I do content with didn't either, we just learned from one another over time. 

The problem with saying you can't be bothered to put in the effort for this is such an entitled approach. "I can't be bothered to put in the effort so there should be a system that forces others to carry me!" 9 out of 10 times you'll get yeeted from a squad with that attitude. This is the very reason people ask for KP in the first place. You have no right to grief 9 other people's experience, which is why people tell you to make your own group and fill it with people who can't be bothered to put in any amount of effort like yourself. Except you don't want that either do you, because when you get 9 other people like that in a group, nothing gets done.

Edited February 18 by Passerbye.6291

[Sobx.1758]

11 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

Meh this is just me ranting at this point.

That's not just "ranting", you're struggling to make up any random excuse you can. This is why you're throwing out one thing and after you get a response to it, you quote the post but ignore what it says just to attempt making up another nonsensical excuse for why autolfg would totally solve every problem you mention, except that it clearly would not -as explained in the posts you're repeatedly intentionally avoiding addressing.

 

11 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

Probably time for a Gw2 break untill they do something about it.

I thought you said you're "having just as much fun in pvp" which has your desired "auto queue"? But whatever, do what you want, it's a game, announcing breaks or departures is not needed for anything.

Edited February 18 by Sobx.1758

[TexZero.7910]

On 2/16/2024 at 11:50 PM, Mell.4873 said:

I tried an "All Welcome" but people just leave when they realise you have no Healers or Supports. The demand on someone organising this content is to high especially for me. I can't spend more than a few hours a day playing so I guess no raiding for me. 

It's almost like you answered the question as to why hotjoin and like systems won't work.

People don't play organized instanced content to be unorganized.

[Mell.4873]

Honestly at the point close my thread it's causing me more grief than this is worth discussing. Reminds me of when I tried to defend Virtuoso at its launch, all my forum strikes are from then too. 

I'll report my own thread. 

[Juan.6124]

On 2/16/2024 at 11:01 PM, Mell.4873 said:

Any attempt to suggest or change the current instanced end game issues like no Hotjoin, KP or needing achievement are meet with form you own squad. 

Great but what if you don't want to run a Raid group? Sure I could spend the time learning the content watching people run it but in the end the effort required on my part is to much of an investment when I could just que for PVP for about the same level of enjoyment. 

Im also not suggesting the content is that hard, I have joined many strike groups without discord and they run just fine but is just finding the group that is problem and organising it if there isn't one. 

 

This content will continue to have low numbers untill it has something that allows players to join and learn rather than basically telling them to be a Raid leader with 10 years of experience or joining a random discord for training runs. 

The reward for your investment is that you get to play the content you want.