Legendary Relics Don't Work as they were Announced [Merged]

[Ashen.2907]

5 hours ago, Mistwraithe.3106 said:

I understand what you are saying but I don't agree with your conclusions. In this post and others you are essentially saying Anet have got greedy and have put too many hooks into SOTO to force people to buy the expansion to compete in combat/gameplay.

But I think it's pretty indisputable that the combat/gameplay "hooks" in SOTO are weaker than they were in HoT, PoF and EoD.  Each of those expansions had elite specialisations which added significant combat options (and also a bit of power creep as demonstrated by the fact that Snowcrows doesn't list any core professions on its DPS charts, only elite specs). You need those HoT, PoF, EoD elite specs much more than you need SOTO's weapon specs and SOTO specific relics.

So why are you losing it so much over SOTO? If anything it demonstrates less greed and less hooks than previous expansions.

He answered that question in the post you quoted.

He mentioned ANet, "cheaping out," in reference to content. The issue being using gear-grind like mechanics INSTEAD of deep, engaging, expensive to produce, playable content to sell an expansion...as opposed to (for example) HoT and PoF where the elite specs were part of an overall much deeper, engaging, playable content heavy, feature intensive, release. Again, it is the, "instead of," rather than, "in addition to," that is the issue raised.

[Mistwraithe.3106]

8 hours ago, Ashen.2907 said:

He answered that question in the post you quoted.

He mentioned ANet, "cheaping out," in reference to content. The issue being using gear-grind like mechanics INSTEAD of deep, engaging, expensive to produce, playable content to sell an expansion...as opposed to (for example) HoT and PoF where the elite specs were part of an overall much deeper, engaging, playable content heavy, feature intensive, release. Again, it is the, "instead of," rather than, "in addition to," that is the issue raised.

Ok, but that’s what I have been saying too. Astralporing’s complaint is really about not liking / appreciating the SOTO content. But it’s been put across by them and others as though Anet have recently become greedy and exploitative with hooks to force people to buy expansions when demonstrably it’s no worse than 9 years ago.

Lets stick to what the real complaint is.

[Astralporing.1957]

32 minutes ago, Mistwraithe.3106 said:

Ok, but that’s what I have been saying too. Astralporing’s complaint is really about not liking / appreciating the SOTO content. But it’s been put across by them and others as though Anet have recently become greedy and exploitative with hooks to force people to buy expansions when demonstrably it’s no worse than 9 years ago.

Lets stick to what the real complaint is.

If you suggest that it's no worse than it has been 9 years ago, i'd suggest you reread my post (and @Ashen.2907's comment on it) again, because i clearly explained why it is different (and worse).

Hint: your hooks can be bigger, if they are only a minor part of the whole. If all you can offer is hooks however, it's bad even if those hooks are smaller.

(hint nr 2: a Lamborghini for 100k is extremely cheap. A dented bike for 20k is not. You are trying to persuade me that the 20k bike deal is good, because 20k is lower than 100k)

[Mistwraithe.3106]

10 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

If you suggest that it's no worse than it has been 9 years ago, i'd suggest you reread my post (and @Ashen.2907's comment on it) again, because i clearly explained why it is different (and worse).

Hint: your hooks can be bigger, if they are only a minor part of the whole. If all you can offer is hooks however, it's bad even if those hooks are smaller.

(hint nr 2: a Lamborghini for 100k is extremely cheap. A dented bike for 20k is not. You are trying to persuade me that the 20k bike deal is good, because 20k is lower than 100k)

OK, but you're just proving my point. Your complaint isn't really about the hooks (legendary relic in this case), it's that you don't like SOTO. You think it's a bike instead of a Lamborghini and you aren't interested in bikes.

Edited March 22 by Mistwraithe.3106

[Astralporing.1957]

2 hours ago, Mistwraithe.3106 said:

OK, but you're just proving my point. Your complaint isn't really about the hooks (legendary relic in this case), it's that you don't like SOTO. You think it's a bike instead of a Lamborghini and you aren't interested in bikes.

Yes, my valuation of SotO has a significant impact on this. Notice, though, that this low opinion on this expansion seems to be shared by a lot of players. And it's a far more one-sided that has been in case of all previous expansions. To the point where most of its defenders are not defending it on basis of it being good, but merely on it not being that bad. Or, even worse, on the basis of hope that the next one might be better.

[Hiko.6729]

Trying to revive (and reiterate) this thread in hopes that devs see it. Support told me to, after first telling me that SotO effects are locked on purpose.

The news post from January was crystal clear that players would NOT need to own SotO to unlock SotO relic effects:

Quote

Legendary relics will come with all Guild Wars 2: Secrets of the Obscure relic effects unlocked

Quote

They’ll also have automatic access to the new relic effects we’re planning to release alongside our third major release for Guild Wars 2: Secrets of the Obscure

Direct quotes (emphasis mine)

While it may seem logical on a surface level that you'd need SotO to get the SotO effects, they even addressed that:

Quote

[...] we decided to allow existing legendary equipment to retain access to all attribute combination selections regardless of expansion ownership to honor existing functionality.

Quote

However, from a rewards, economy, and experience-design standpoint, we think it makes sense to ask players to actually engage with new content in order to make use of its new combat offerings. So, for relics only—and starting with the fifth expansion—new relic effects will need to be unlocked within each expansion in order to be accessible via legendary relics.

Again, direct quotes (emphasis mine).

So they specifically said that for other legendary gear, you don't need to own expansion for stat prefixes, then say that this will change for legendary relics but only beginning with the next expansion. How else could this be interpreted other than "Legendary Relics will get SotO effects even if you don't own it" ?!

Devs, fix it please.

[Remus Darkblight.1673]

On 2/28/2024 at 6:25 PM, Astralporing.1957 said:

As a side matter, something i have noticed right now. Some of the descriptions for Exotic Relics and their Legendary version seem to differ.

Example:

Exotic Relic of the Flock: "Heal yourself and nearby allies after you use a healing skill. Excess healing is converted to barrier.".

Legendary version: "Grant barrier to yourself and nearby allies after you use a healing skill."

Wonder if that's just a description difference (and if so, why?), or is the actual effect different as well.

The Legendary description is from an earlier version of the Relic, they changed the functionality to what is written on the Exotic version on the 30th of January.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Relic_of_the_Flock/history

[EphemeralWallaby.7643]

8 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Yes, my valuation of SotO has a significant impact on this. Notice, though, that this low opinion on this expansion seems to be shared by a lot of players. And it's a far more one-sided that has been in case of all previous expansions. To the point where most of its defenders are not defending it on basis of it being good, but merely on it not being that bad. Or, even worse, on the basis of hope that the next one might be better.

Stick with me on this... I meander a bit w/ my anecdote, but I do have a point...

FWLIW, I haven't played the current expansion/LW since HoT.  Meaning, I take regular breaks from the game and when I come back, I'm always at least 1 expac/lw behind the newest release if playing content in release order (which I do)... And I'm loving the hell out of everything I'm playing... the stories, the challenges, everything. 

I largely don't agree with the historical complaints for previous content (hell, I made a thread about how much I enjoy IBS DRMs, which I take were very divisive)... and I think that there are a lot of factors that play into that including what I'm playing not being the focus of forum/friend criticism, many bugs being long worked out, the ability to engage with completed content on my schedule, and uncrowded map populations.  Every time people refer to, for example, bad story or voice acting of older content, I usually have a moment where I wonder if we're playing the same game (we kinda aren't). 

I  don't plan on playing SoTO until the next expac drops, and I have little reason to think this difference in experiences will change.  Although, I can't predict the future, so who knows? Maybe I'll agree that SoTO lacks anything worthwhile outside legendary armor.  I'm def looking forward to weaponmaster training and access to new weaps as rewards for playing the content.

Maybe some of those peeps with a "low opinion on this expansion" should consider walking away for a bit or making some other adjustment to how they engage in content.  There's always the chance that, like me, they'll find they enjoy the content more after some time away, and that content now has a buffer, allowing for a different perspective on it than those fed content in pieces.  Unlike other MMOs, your characters don't become ineffective if you're not grinding the lastest content drop.  But, YDY.

Good luck, and I hope you find some new enjoyment in the game,

~EpWa

P.S.  EoD is fantastic to experience for the first time rn, and Gorrik remains my fav side character.  Luv the little dude.  Also really enjoy the redemption arc.

Edited March 22 by EphemeralWallaby.7643

[Linken.6345]

4 hours ago, Hiko.6729 said:

Trying to revive (and reiterate) this thread in hopes that devs see it. Support told me to, after first telling me that SotO effects are locked on purpose.

The news post from January was crystal clear that players would NOT need to own SotO to unlock SotO relic effects:

Direct quotes (emphasis mine)

While it may seem logical on a surface level that you'd need SotO to get the SotO effects, they even addressed that:

Again, direct quotes (emphasis mine).

So they specifically said that for other legendary gear, you don't need to own expansion for stat prefixes, then say that this will change for legendary relics but only beginning with the next expansion. How else could this be interpreted other than "Legendary Relics will get SotO effects even if you don't own it" ?!

Devs, fix it please.

Yes but we got this post weeks later apparently they changed their mind and did not bother to tell us before release even tho people asked serveral times.

On 3/19/2024 at 6:18 PM, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

Hey all, I did some looking into this for you. Further internal review after that blog was posted led us to limit SOTO relic effects behind SOTO access as well. We failed to communicate that before release, and we apologize for the confusion.

 

[Hiko.6729]

1 hour ago, Linken.6345 said:

Yes but we got this post weeks later apparently they changed their mind and did not bother to tell us before release even tho people asked serveral times.

 

Thanks for the info, my reply was to the older thread, which has now been closed and my answer merged into this thread.

It's ridiculous they just go with "we're really sorry, bye", so I'll keep saying it: Devs, fix it.

[Cheese.6352]

On 3/19/2024 at 5:18 PM, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

Hey all, I did some looking into this for you. Further internal review after that blog was posted led us to limit SOTO relic effects behind SOTO access as well. We failed to communicate that before release, and we apologize for the confusion.

So as I understand it, people who followed that post are out of luck?  Refunding is impossible according to support, and we won't get the features that were announced?

An apology is a good first step, but the explanation doesn't really mend confidence, at least for me personally.

Since it seems that players who are upset about this have no additional actions they can take, at the very least will there be an update to internal reviews/announcement procedures so things like this don't happen in the future?  It seems a bit crazy that a review can happen after the announcement was made with no flags being raised to communicate these changes to the players.

[Smoky.5348]

Didn't ANET say last year they were gonna work on better communication?

Devs, fix it.

[Cuks.8241]

On 3/21/2024 at 8:19 PM, Mistwraithe.3106 said:

Ok, but that’s what I have been saying too. Astralporing’s complaint is really about not liking / appreciating the SOTO content. But it’s been put across by them and others as though Anet have recently become greedy and exploitative with hooks to force people to buy expansions when demonstrably it’s no worse than 9 years ago.

Lets stick to what the real complaint is.

Off course it's about content. You said they need hooks and levers to sell expansions. And some of us pointed out content should be the selling point and if its good, everything else is more or less irrelevant.  It should be about content.

If content is worse (which imo it is) and hooks and levers are stricter lockouts, which legendary relic is a precedence and a change of established system to be more restrictive , things are not looking good. You can't really compare changes in stat lockouts on legendary gear with new especs, new weapons... Because those actually bring some gameplay implication. Stat lockouts just require from you to spend money to get what you got in the past as part of a legendary gear.