How Vindicator should be so that it can actually see more interesting traits and concepts..

[Shao.7236]

Tenacious Ruin should be the F2 at 20cd and not on evade, Energy Meld should be scrapped altogether, just toss all this endurance/vigor spam idea out the window for something more innovative. We're also not talking the weak version but the actually FIRST version of Tenacious Ruin we saw which could hit upwards of 10k or have good support and balance it from there on it's effects and coefficients so that it doesn't have to be so boring and spammy damage that doesn't feel fair, wouldn't have to look so fast and jank anymore either.

The utility of Vindicator can easily be balanced one way or another apart of it, but chances are it doesn't need much however if it did and because people seemingly hate the freedom of having swapping "on demand" and not "automatically" for skills individually to mix Alliances skills, the cooldown of skills can just be shared in between Arch or Viktor, but again that's a big if the changes to the evade spam are enough beforehand.

Anyways, those are suggestions that are in favor of giving the elite the possibility of having options and not be so limited around it's current iteration because it's literally just power creep of over anything else Revenant/Herald or Renegade has to offer which is why it's SO boring to play and constantly gutted.

Edited March 20 by Shao.7236

[Buran.3796]

17 hours ago, Shao.7236 said:

Anyways, those are suggestions that are in favor of giving the elite the possibility of having options and not be so limited around it's current iteration because it's literally just power creep of over anything else Revenant/Herald or Renegade has to offer which is why it's SO boring to play and constantly gutted.

     I'm not prone to think that your intentions are honest since you never liked Herald, ignored Renegade and hated Vindi except when was a sitting duck with a single evade after which its only function was to die. "Options" is a deceiving concept since there's only place for a support class or two in PvP (and Vindi will never compete vs Guardians or Druids at that) and currently Vindi isn't even that good at teamfights or damage, so mobility is its only real card. And Herald/Rene aren't bad PER SE, but because ANet deliberately chose to brick both.

    This was me last night after the patch; very mediocre damage (rarely reach 400k) and arguably badly played but still somewaht impactful thanks to the mobility:

  No Energy Meld button was harmed during the recording.

[Ravenwulfe.5360]

I am not sure of the point of this post. Doesn't seem the word interesting is involved in your suggestion. What I would want is the ability to actually provide PvE support as a vindi (aka quick or alac) with some ability to provide might and protection decently. But they are stripping instead of giving and shoving Vindi more into DPS.

[Jobber.6348]

 

Unless the gameplan for Vindicator would be to make their Dodge button the method in which you Swap between Alliance, I don't think Vindicator's dodge is interesting at all. 

To put my thoughts into point form:

- Vindicator still has their two dodges and its effects. 

- When they dodge in Alliance stance, they switch from one form to the other, as if the other Alliance member took their place as they left the battlefield 

- This makes the Vindicator not want to be a furious dodge spammer or rather if anything forces them to dodge, it will be for a reason or provide utility that can help them post dodge.

- It simply changes up how Vindicator mindset is compared to other classes with unique dodge.

- And again, using the GM choice you can either lock in your desired Alliance set to prevent the dodge from switching but at the same time specializing in a role or use Vassals to buff up your general effectiveness while retaining the Dodge to Swap mechanic.

 

Edited March 20 by Yasai.3549

[Buran.3796]

1 hour ago, Ravenwulfe.5360 said:

 But they are stripping instead of giving and shoving Vindi more into DPS.

   ...Aaaand is not even that, since Vindi damage was nerfed in the last two patches despite being a pure mele which does ahlf of the damage (or even 0) if has to be at range. The latest CM Strike already proved this, with Virtuoso filling ALL the dps places due not only has higher dps, but since can deal damage and move and do mechanics without the damage going downwards.

[Sereath.1428]

42 minutes ago, Yasai.3549 said:

 

Unless the gameplan for Vindicator would be to make their Dodge button the method in which you Swap between Alliance, I don't think Vindicator's dodge is interesting at all. 

To put my thoughts into point form:

- Vindicator still has their two dodges and its effects. 

- When they dodge in Alliance stance, they switch from one form to the other, as if the other Alliance member took their place as they left the battlefield 

- This makes the Vindicator not want to be a furious dodge spammer or rather if anything forces them to dodge, it will be for a reason or provide utility that can help them post dodge.

- It simply changes up how Vindicator mindset is compared to other classes with unique dodge.

- And again, using the GM choice you can either lock in your desired Alliance set to prevent the dodging but at the same time specializing in a role or use Vassals to buff up your general effectiveness while retaining the Dodge to Swap mechanic.

 

Very interesting actually. Could work.
I don't like how they are balancing the whole spec (power) around Death Drop only. I do think it's poor game design and it's actually also the main complaint of other players, 3k-4k Death Drops.
And in PvE they simply deleted Imperial Impact as an option as well, the build variety is so poor. It is now a dead trait in every game mode.

35 minutes ago, Buran.3796 said:

   ...Aaaand is not even that, since Vindi damage was nerfed in the last two patches despite being a pure mele which does ahlf of the damage (or even 0) if has to be at range. The latest CM Strike already proved this, with Virtuoso filling ALL the dps places due not only has higher dps, but since can deal damage and move and do mechanics without the damage going downwards.

Yeah, the balance is so kittening bad. In both PvE and PvP. The risk-reward ratio is completely out of whack.
They seem to exclusively balance around golem benchmarks and imaginary scenarios.

Edited March 21 by Sereath.1428

[Jobber.6348]

4 minutes ago, Sereath.1428 said:

Very interesting actually. Could work.
I don't like how they are balancing the whole spec (power) around Death Drop only. I do think it's poor game design and it's actually also the main complaint of other players, 3k-4k Death Drops.
And in PvE they simply deleted Imperial Impact as an option as well, the build variety is so poor. It is now a dead trait in every game mode.

Remove Chill in competitive and remove boon extension entirely. Why even pick it anymore.

Ooo 2s Protection! 

Heralds laughing in the corner slapping their knee.

[arazoth.7290]

2 hours ago, Yasai.3549 said:

Remove Chill in competitive and remove boon extension entirely. Why even pick it anymore.

Ooo 2s Protection! 

Heralds laughing in the corner slapping their knee.

if you try to throw a game harder 😓.

It needs definitely change yea...

[Shao.7236]

30 minutes ago, Buran.3796 said:

I'm not prone to think that your intentions are honest since you never liked Herald, ignored Renegade and hated Vindi except when was a sitting duck with a single evade after which its only function was to die.

Again where are you getting this from and why do you keep implying I dislike everything?

4 hours ago, Buran.3796 said:

"Options" is a deceiving concept since there's only place for a support class or two in PvP (and Vindi will never compete vs Guardians or Druids at that) and currently Vindi isn't even that good at teamfights or damage, so mobility is its only real card. And Herald/Rene aren't bad PER SE, but because ANet deliberately chose to brick both.

Uh, Vindi Ventari is actually good tho? Much of the same can be said for Ventari with anything. Guardian is only slightly better because it has Aegis, Druid? They're good at ressing but healing? Definitely not.

4 hours ago, Sereath.1428 said:

I don't like how they are balancing the whole spec (power) around Death Drop only. I do think it's poor game design and it's actually also the main complaint of other players, 3k-4k Death Drops.

Because it's literally free damage and you have to deal with that on top of everything else, it's annoying. It doesn't hold much meaning and feels randomly forced. I liked it better when the evade actually had something going for it and if we want to make it better, it may as well be just it's own skill rather than built into evades, it takes away all the negatives and the shoehorned energy meld. I'm even okay to make it i-frames or have stabillity so the skill is this unstoppable force like the visuals implies.

Seriously, it's quite obvious that Tenacious Ruin sucks because it's forcefully used as an evade which is extremely often. Making it F2 is way better and completely nullify the need for Energy Meld to exist and is not whacky to balance.