My Thoughts on the Renegade Changes: March 19 Class Balances

[Aeolus.3615]

4 hours ago, Yasai.3549 said:

Revenant was already a foot in the grave in my eyes ever since they decided to nerf everything from Core traitlines to Shiro to Jalis instead of addressing the actual problem that was Herald Might stacking. 

I'm still waiting for revert buffs after they finally stamped Herald down in competitive. Where's the justice? Is this really balance? 

Renegade utils somehow felt kinda underwhelming on wvw and will continue to be underwhelming.

At the momment so many things going wrong on rev overall :/  and since there no dev that plays that class dont expect to have the right atention.

Migth stacking they adressed that with the useless scepter that aplies more might with auto and skill 3 lol.

 

Edited March 25 by Aeolus.3615

[arazoth.7290]

1 hour ago, Aeolus.3615 said:

Renegade utils somehow felt kinda underwhelming on wvw and will continue to be underwhelming.

At the momment so many things going wrong on rev overall 😕 and since there no dev that plays that class dont expect to have the right atention.

Migth stacking they adressed that with the useless scepter that aplies more might with auto and skill 3 lol.

 

• Just put regen boons/resolution boons instead of might/Fury for scepter 3 tether.

• Scepter skill 3, tether should only be able to applied on the enemy and without enemy selected on yourself. It should do at the same time offensive/support which gets applied around target and always around yourself too.

• Scepter skill 3 tether duration reduced by 50% but 0,5 second intervals instead.

• The offensive aspect on tether duration has increased damage stacking but the support part has none. 

Put during tether duration for support part like increased outgoing healing/barrier applied to allies.

• The increased damage, outgoing heal/barrier output can stay active a few seconds after it's done even to have an after effect. And this would sync well with barrier, healing and damage you do shortly after.

[arazoth.7290]

3 minutes ago, arazoth.7290 said:

• Just put regen boons/resolution boons instead of might/Fury for scepter 3 tether.

• Scepter skill 3, tether should only be able to applied on the enemy and without enemy selected on yourself. It should do at the same time offensive/support which gets applied around target and always around yourself too.

• Scepter skill 3 tether duration reduced by 50% but 0,5 second intervals instead.

• The offensive aspect on tether duration has increased damage stacking but the support part has none. 

Put during tether duration for support part like increased outgoing healing/barrier applied to allies.

• The increased damage, outgoing heal/barrier output can stay active a few seconds after it's done even to have an after effect. And this would sync well with barrier, healing and damage you do shortly after.

Oops, renegade channel 😅.

• I think currently kalla stance could get overall 5 energy lower on each of the 3 middle utility stance skills.

• And some overall coefficients buffs on the its stance skills. 1 in particular to get also more impact is the elite skill additional aoe damage/healing it does if you activate a stance skill in it, for the amount of extra energy used while this on it should be worthwile.

• buff/rework heroic command, because it feels the most useless ability from the F/skills, energy wise it's fine.

• Citadel Bombardement can use un any content atleast 50% less energy cost. Make it hit more reliable with a fixed amount of ornates on each target that do enough damage. it might also need something else then just being a raw damage button, some more utility same time.

• Buff/rework most renegade spec major traits which are outdated/not impactfull

[Yasai.3549]

3 hours ago, Aeolus.3615 said:

Renegade utils somehow felt kinda underwhelming on wvw and will continue to be underwhelming.

The reason they feel underwhelming is because it's fundamentally anti-Revenant in design. The March balance sent it down a path which is even MORE anti-Revenant. 
Spamming your utilities like piano keys is the anthesis of Revenant gameplay where the cost of the utilities are made high so that you can use them multiple times back to back, but you usually have to wait between each cast due to the Energy regeneration period. THIS IS AND WAS THE POINT OF REVENANT ENERGY. 

Kalla's old summons were functionally kitten but they still supported this logic to some extent. Band Together completely disregards it, and that's why they feel much weaker or dare I say it WORSE. If they really wanted to make Kalla a spam-type Legend, they needed to reworked her harder in order to break the rule by design. 

The ONLY Legend that actually benefits and desires anti-Revenant gameplay are Glint Facets, specifically because they are designed to be that way. None of the other Legends are, and should, behave or encourage the same sort of playstyle. 

Edited March 25 by Yasai.3549

[draxynnic.3719]

I don't know, it feels like vindicator also breaks revenant rules due to Archemorus not having an upkeep while having pretty low energy costs.

Does feel like the new Kalla is built around dumping all your energy at once, though.

[Yasai.3549]

1 hour ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

I don't know, it feels like vindicator also breaks revenant rules due to Archemorus not having an upkeep while having pretty low energy costs.

Does feel like the new Kalla is built around dumping all your energy at once, though.

Well having two utility sets in Alliance as a whole breaks the mold which is a design choice for Alliance stance in particular. Ironically, the skills were meant to be flip skills so it wasn't even initially designed to be so egregiously different. Even so, no Legend, not even Glint, actively encourages the player to heeheehaha and throw all their Energy down the drain for maximum effectiveness. 

Granted, it's interesting for Soulcleave to have synergy with the other utilities instead of just being a Siphon buff and Fire field. The way they did it just isn't it. 

Edited March 27 by Yasai.3549

[Shagie.7612]

I genuinely don't think this version is better. It's much easier to avoid the damage of the skills for any experienced or attentive player, because it's a one and done. Getting hit by most of them means nothing because my nearly naked alt ranger has a higher Storm Spirit tooltip than my Renegade in full zerk.

The old ones didn't work either, but the immob doesn't help get people off you nearly as well as the daze spam did, and anything that could ignore or kill your Darkrazor before can almost certainly do the same with the immob. And now you've also lost the ability for the summons to potentially take a hit for you, or to throw them to activate traps or whatever else. That's rough.

I don't understand how the two explicitly stated goals, that being improving Kalla in PvP and making Power Ren better in PvE (which, it took a small nerf for, but gained some cleave so idk, about levels out) were missed so badly.

I find it frustrating that nobody really cares, either. Rev players only particularly care about Vindicator, non-revs can't get over the trauma from like 4 years ago, and balance changes are so infrequent, poorly thought out, and so rarely communicated that there's no hint of the spec ever actually being anything but a troll pick.

Like, I don't wanna be a jerk, I certainly don't think I'm some genius who could fix everything in a day, but how did the goal get whiffed so badly when no other reworks landed so poorly? And how long's it gonna take to remedy that considering it took 6 years to get these changes?

Edited March 27 by Shagie.7612

[Yasai.3549]

1 hour ago, Shagie.7612 said:

I genuinely don't think this version is better. It's much easier to avoid the damage of the skills for any experienced or attentive player, because it's a one and done. Getting hit by most of them means nothing because my nearly naked alt ranger has a higher Storm Spirit tooltip than my Renegade in full zerk.

No one does tbh. 
 

 

1 hour ago, Shagie.7612 said:

I find it frustrating that nobody really cares, either. Rev players only particularly care about Vindicator, non-revs can't get over the trauma from like 4 years ago, and balance changes are so infrequent, poorly thought out, and so rarely communicated that there's no hint of the spec ever actually being anything but a troll pick.

Because Renegade somehow finds some use in WvW roaming I'm guessing. Ironically, Kalla being the Legendary Guerrilla Fighter has one of the worst kits for actually fighting enemies while being mobile. Literally everything she has can be walked out of.

People find much better use with Renegade's entire shortbow playstyle with Shiro of all Legends which is hilarious to me since Shiro is the Legend with the most nerfs due to "problems" without prompting a "hey maybe we should rework him a little?" and instead Kalla gets reworked into being a weird wonky version of her previous state. 

[Shagie.7612]

2 minutes ago, Yasai.3549 said:

Because Renegade somehow finds some use in WvW roaming I'm guessing.

As Shiro/Jalis.

I gotta be honest, I genuinely don't care a single bit about WvW roaming and what it means for Renegade or even Kalla itself.
It's absolutely a joke and has been since long before they buffed Cele as a gear set, added mounts, and generally gave up on balance.

It's full of absolutely fried, zero skill players crutching on anet's abandonment of everything but boonballs. Nobody good plays WvW.

Also, Vindi was the same build but better up until the most recent patch. It was just marginally harder, and that's asking too much for Cele Ren players.

[arazoth.7290]

4 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

I don't know, it feels like vindicator also breaks revenant rules due to Archemorus not having an upkeep while having pretty low energy costs.

Does feel like the new Kalla is built around dumping all your energy at once, though.

It might feel like that but it isn't. Tactical useage is important. Imo they should emphasize it more so it feels that way.

 But even if you do a combo you're fast left out of energy, so it needs some overall slightly lower energy cost. If they want this playstyle atleast to be used in that way.

Also why it might feel spammy because some F-skills are not utilised enough because either too much energy or not worth it.

I am talking about Heroic Command, which has low energy cost but isn't worth pressing it actually.

And also talking about citadel bombardment, which has too high energy cost to fit in with other skills enough. Citadel Bombardment has some unreliable hits on the enemy too, the amount differentiates too much. So lower energy on it and maybe little more utility added too?