How I'm making Shortbow + Bunker down work in PvP

[bethekey.8314]

I use "work" loosely. Played well in non-tip-top games I think it's somewhat viable and I've been having fun on it. It still needs love buff-wise. Here's the build:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PeQAUlNw2YjsQmKeeX3NPA-DaIPjMVAFMBU7tBAA

Some notes:

- You're filling decap and support roles. Looking to dart around point to point and stunlock to finish targets.

- A typical teamfight will have you mass clearing stability + hitting AoE Bunker Downs with Mines. Follow-up with the big AoE Shortbow 5, AoE daze chain, Function Gyro dazes, and a Rampage/Tornado (selecting the cc option to combo with Bunker Down). It can swing teamfights. Seriously, watch the barrier generation you get from damaging the AoE golems in the HOTM. In a pinch, running through teamfights with Tools buffed Slick Shoes can hit for 4k+ itself.

- Bunker Down adds just enough damage and sustain as full glass to let you 1v1. Double Mine + Infusion Bomb + Shortbow 2 + Rocket Boots into the water field = 5 healing blasts, like an extra heal.

- You have barely any health and one stunbreak. Typical Engi things. But if you get stunlocked, you can still use instant Slick Shoes to slow them, Stunbreak, and spam Rocket Boots. Usually you'll have your Inventions smoke field trait up and the Rocket Boots will blast stealth. Great escape.

- Shortbow auto in teamfights is decent. The aoe shock adds up.

I have some gameplay footage I can upload in a week or so if people are interested.

Edited March 24 by bethekey.8314

[working class hero.2175]

This seems fun af. I was running something similar to this in wvw but with cele stats and alchemy instead of scrapper to just to troll 1v2 and 1v3

[bethekey.8314]

1 hour ago, working class hero.2175 said:

This seems fun af. I was running something similar to this in wvw but with cele stats and alchemy instead of scrapper to just to troll 1v2 and 1v3

Yeah I could see it being great in WvW. More solo, offensive versions are easy enough to make, swapping 2x Function gyros for Kinetic Accelerator might + fury uptime.

I really want the Core Engi version to work, with Flashbang and Explosive Entrance procs comboing with Bunker Down: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PeQAUlNw2YjsQmKO+OvrbA-DaIPjMVAFMBU7tBAA

But the lack of superspeed / function gyro dazes / barrier for utility/survival is felt.

[shion.2084]

On 3/23/2024 at 11:46 PM, bethekey.8314 said:

I use "work" loosely. Played well in non-tip-top games I think it's somewhat viable and I've been having fun on it. It still needs love buff-wise. Here's the build:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PeQAUlNw2YjsQmKeeX3NPA-DaIPjMVAFMBU7tBAA

Some notes:

- You're filling decap and support roles. Looking to dart around point to point and stunlock to finish targets.

- A typical teamfight will have you mass clearing stability + hitting AoE Bunker Downs with Mines. Follow-up with the big AoE Shortbow 5, AoE daze chain, Function Gyro dazes, and a Rampage/Tornado (selecting the cc option to combo with Bunker Down). It can swing teamfights. Seriously, watch the barrier generation you get from damaging the AoE golems in the HOTM. In a pinch, running through teamfights with Tools buffed Slick Shoes can hit for 4k+ itself.

- Bunker Down adds just enough damage and sustain as full glass to let you 1v1. Double Mine + Infusion Bomb + Shortbow 2 + Rocket Boots into the water field = 5 healing blasts, like an extra heal.

- You have barely any health and one stunbreak. Typical Engi things. But if you get stunlocked, you can still use instant Slick Shoes to slow them, Stunbreak, and spam Rocket Boots. Usually you'll have your Inventions smoke field trait up and the Rocket Boots will blast stealth. Great escape.

- Shortbow auto in teamfights is decent. The aoe shock adds up.

I have some gameplay footage I can upload in a week or so if people are interested.

Yeah I've played you a few matches with this build.  I do sincerely admire that you put the effort in to get it to kinda work... I thought (SHORT BOW) it was complete garbage... so even being able to play it reasonably is an accomplishment.    The other variant I see with it is the Holo version that uses forge for the mele damage and then the bow to supplement.

You're hard to lock down and annoying.  The shadowy field thing means I have to spend my time off point and moving all the time to assist my team during the team fights. I think v1 you'll have a hard time contesting a side node.  It's kinda one of those builds that synergises with a good team that's going to let you stand back and pew into team fights.... it is likely hard to carry a bad team with it.  You have to leave if pressure is on you, so I've taken to scaring you off, not over committing to chasing you and then cleaning up what you were supporting.  For eeking out win's with a bad team I prefer something that just spams CC and damage.  

Ash by the way... so we know each other.

*Clairified to indicate that it wasn't your build I thought was garbage but the weapon.

Edited March 25 by shion.2084

[shion.2084]

Happy to see some vids of what you do with it!   I have a very myopic perspective from the couple of games we played.   But how is the build dealing with the thieves out there and their imparing dagger and port spam?   Those are a pain for my build... and you don't have things like a block on that bow, or a thunderclap to lock them down, or a thunder charge that tracks stealth.

Edited March 25 by shion.2084

[Shadowpeixera.2918]

I wonder how good BD performs with Rifle and the old Toolkit Magnet+Prybar build. Feels like it's a lot more CC to output and a lot more burst potential with Rifle, and you're not trading that for a 20s aoe CC in a weapon that has lackluster damage.

[SleepyBat.9034]

Are the damage numbers in pvp for shortbow as shown on gw2skills correct?

[bethekey.8314]

On 3/25/2024 at 7:37 AM, shion.2084 said:

Yeah I've played you a few matches with this build.  I do sincerely admire that you put the effort in to get it to kinda work... I thought (SHORT BOW) it was complete garbage... so even being able to play it reasonably is an accomplishment.    The other variant I see with it is the Holo version that uses forge for the mele damage and then the bow to supplement.

You're hard to lock down and annoying.  The shadowy field thing means I have to spend my time off point and moving all the time to assist my team during the team fights. I think v1 you'll have a hard time contesting a side node.  It's kinda one of those builds that synergises with a good team that's going to let you stand back and pew into team fights.... it is likely hard to carry a bad team with it.  You have to leave if pressure is on you, so I've taken to scaring you off, not over committing to chasing you and then cleaning up what you were supporting.  For eeking out win's with a bad team I prefer something that just spams CC and damage.  

Ash by the way... so we know each other.

*Clairified to indicate that it wasn't your build I thought was garbage but the weapon.

Lol, I'm aware it's you, no need to clarify 🙂

Thanks, and yeah it's definitely lacking as a standalone weapon. From what I've seen, the way Holos are making it "work" in team PvP is a bastardized version of what I'm proposing here. Holo's gated mobility allows a clunky in-and-out playstyle, adding the defense shortbow desperately needs. I fully lean into mobility as defense here with a decap role. Losing shield just guts your ability to teamfight/go into melee on most classes. The Holos then spend much of the time spamming mortar while practicing their About Face keybinds. I personally find the mortar/nade spam playstyle tiresome at this point, so I tried to let the support side of Scrapper + Shortbow shine.

The build as-is, is not meant to 1v1 well. I'd say with equal skill vs an actual duel build I'm disadvantaged, but able to eke out wins like a thief spamming ports / stealth for favorable trades. And so yes, it's not a hyper carry type build that highly rated players almost HAVE to play to make the majority of matches bearable. It's unfortunate that more players aren't competent enough to make other roles equally viable while carrying, but that's what my other thread was about.

On 3/25/2024 at 7:41 AM, shion.2084 said:

Happy to see some vids of what you do with it!   I have a very myopic perspective from the couple of games we played.   But how is the build dealing with the thieves out there and their imparing dagger and port spam?   Those are a pain for my build... and you don't have things like a block on that bow, or a thunderclap to lock them down, or a thunder charge that tracks stealth.

We'll see if I get around to the vids; they'd probably be minimally edited. Against burst builds, you manage distance to predict their teleports/bursts, preemptively Shortbow 4 to get Aegis and Prot up, and hover over rocket boots. You just don't have the resources to trade with or counter their resources in that location. Maybe you can fight them after they've wasted CDs, but the real answer to fighting them is simply: don't. If it's a risky fight you actually have some luxury in picking your fights like a Thief. Bold concept for Engis, I know. Even without vertical teleports or stealth spam, an upgraded Rocket Boots with some mines / slick shoes behind you will end most fights.

On 3/26/2024 at 9:39 AM, Shadowpeixera.2918 said:

I wonder how good BD performs with Rifle and the old Toolkit Magnet+Prybar build. Feels like it's a lot more CC to output and a lot more burst potential with Rifle, and you're not trading that for a 20s aoe CC in a weapon that has lackluster damage.

The damage is a bit less, yes and if you like it I'd be curious. I think I tried it a little. My brief train of thought:

If you're going Rifle, you're shifting from a support to a more damage oriented role. If you want damage, Explosives still takes priority over Inventions imo. If you try to fit both Explosives and Inventions in a build, you're likely dropping Tools or going Core. If you drop Tools, you're likely not playing gadgets and can't enable Explosive Entrance with more dodges. Regardless of how you justify it, there's usually a cascade of consequences for you changing one component of these builds.

On 3/27/2024 at 11:38 AM, SleepyBat.9034 said:

Are the damage numbers in pvp for shortbow as shown on gw2skills correct?

I think so? If you're asking if Shortbow can hit hard, yes sometimes you go above 5k.

[SleepyBat.9034]

1 hour ago, bethekey.8314 said:

I think so? If you're asking if Shortbow can hit hard, yes sometimes you go above 5k.

Oh, that's nice. It doesn't hit for more than 2k in WvW.