SAB Size Feedback

[Sobx.1758]

On 4/30/2024 at 11:25 AM, Luthan.5236 said:

he time thing and new players wanting to catch up is an issue though. In other content a lot of stuff got made easier/faster to obain. For festivals we have them only for 3 weeks each year - and they add more and more stuff.

Should they ever finish a full W3 and W4 we will have more options to obtain bauble bublees (from the daily runs) - making it easier to obtain stuff from the vendors. (To catch up there. If you missed older annuals that will also be stuff you have to buy at the vendor.)

On the other hand - tribulation, if they add that: It will take super long. Just because some people trained it so hard that they can do the mode even in W2 in just a few minutes ... doesn't mean it is easy for new players. I remember when I did the tribulation the first time. Took me like multiple hours even for the easier zones - with a guide. For the first tries. (Now I have my f full sets a can do it also at a reasonable speed - not super fast though.)

Just because the player is new, it doesn't mean we should trivialize everything for them. As you noticed "it took you longer even the easier zones.... for the first tries". So you started doing something new, on an intentionaly higher difficulty level and you learned. Exactly like anyone else who wanted to do it, I don't see how this is supposed to be an issue to "fix". It's just learning/playing the game's content. This is normal.

[Luthan.5236]

Well ... a permanent SAB would fix the problem of not having enough time to train for the tribulation mode and get the sets. Though reducing the amount of repeats it would need ... would not make the festival significantly easier or remove content. That is why I suggested it. I know some people like to have it as hard and grindy as possible (yes repeating the same zone in tribualation over and over is a grind) because they value to be able to brag about having accomplished something that is hard/grindy. (If this was less grindy or hard they get less of that good feeling when bragging.)

ArenaNet though need to sell the content to as many customers as possible - not just trying to satisfy a few elitists. They seem to even have done adjustments to other content (or new ways - like the easier version of the skyscale) ... so they know this. And they act accordingly. I doubt it would be any different for SAB since such tweaks would be easy - satisfying a lot whily only annoying a handful of people. (You always get those complaints like "but I had to do more work to get X" and those changes still happen in a lot of parts in the game.)

Adjusting the the amount of trib runs needed to complete the sets would be a good compromise where no content was removed (and it still would be required to play the zones in tribulation mode) - just the amount of time would be reduced. No reason to complain here. (Unless it is about the other stuff I mentioned above - but it happens everywhere and they just don't care about the handful of people that whine because of this.)

I don't agree on taking up payed free days for farming lol. That certainly is not the definition of "festvial" - in my opinion. The game should be fun. Not taking free days at work to "work" in the game lol. + on halloween you can just pre-farm other content during the year then buy the halloween currency for gold on the TP and log in during halloween and buy the stuff from the vendor. That is a bit different than for the festivals with the account bound currency or stuff like the tribulation skins where you actually need to play tribulation mode repeatedly.

What I agree on is that the SAB is pretty unique. Even among the festivals. If they did not add more tribulaton modes and/or skins (at least no further trib skin sets9 for W3/W4 it could easily avoid even creating a problem. With W3 the test zone the current deves already showed that they are greater than the famous Joshua Foreman some people like. Lots of different stuff. And they should complete W3 and W4 first before even thinking about adding tribulation modes - since people (as explained a lot of times) want more new content in SAB and tribulation is just another diffuculty. Better to have a new zone = new content.

With the coin adventure at the kind of mini JP in the test zone (before the chest) people could use that as a mini trubulatoin difficulty thing for bragging - trying to do the jumps fast and comparing their times. Totally enough. And for a W4 I could even imagine a tower-like castle as one zone open-world like (like the Tower of Nightmares). There is no rule to have all worlds set up similar than W1 and W2 and the test zone proved this with a lot of small changes (freely selectable checkpoints for example).

And yes: We don't need every reward. But the "completionist" stuff is a thing amongst gamers. (And ArenaNet probably knows this. That is why they also make grindy stuff as an easy way to get people to repeatetly play content. But for stuff like convergences and the skyscale weapon sets it is not a problem - nobody complaines there since it is permanently available.)

[nosleepdemon.1368]

Making SAB permanent would tank the value of the items it adds to the economy, and also require ANet to design a new festival to replace it that you would also no doubt complain about.

[Sobx.1758]

57 minutes ago, Luthan.5236 said:

Though reducing the amount of repeats it would need ... would not make the festival significantly easier. That is why I suggested it.

It would and that is literally the reason you want it in the first place. It rather clearly is not because you think it wouldn't make it significantly easier.

57 minutes ago, Luthan.5236 said:

I don't agree on taking up payed free days for farming lol.

Neither do I, but that's also not something that's needed in order to participate and complete the tasks during festivals.

57 minutes ago, Luthan.5236 said:

And yes: We don't need every reward. But the "completionist" stuff is a thing amongst gamers.

I already saw that "what if I'm a completionist?!" attempt at argument when someone wants things easier/faster, but without change it makes no sense to use here. You're not "a completionist" if you need to keep getting things easier and faster or you won't be able to complete it. In that case, you just want everything now. That doesn't make you a "completionist", nor does it make any sense as an attempted argument for making everything faster/easier. I could maybe see it making more sense if we were just talking about timegated skins, where no matter what you do, you can get 5 per festival appearing and that's it. That's not the case for running trubulation mode and completing other related achievements though.

"I don't want to do it 16 times, I'm a completionist". Riiight.

Edited May 1 by Sobx.1758

[Malus.2184]

21 hours ago, Luthan.5236 said:

Well ... a permanent SAB would fix the problem of not having enough time to train for the tribulation mode and get the sets. Though reducing the amount of repeats it would need ... would not make the festival significantly easier or remove content. That is why I suggested it. I know some people like to have it as hard and grindy as possible (yes repeating the same zone in tribualation over and over is a grind) because they value to be able to brag about having accomplished something that is hard/grindy. (If this was less grindy or hard they get less of that good feeling when bragging.)

ArenaNet though need to sell the content to as many customers as possible - not just trying to satisfy a few elitists. They seem to even have done adjustments to other content (or new ways - like the easier version of the skyscale) ... so they know this. And they act accordingly. I doubt it would be any different for SAB since such tweaks would be easy - satisfying a lot whily only annoying a handful of people. (You always get those complaints like "but I had to do more work to get X" and those changes still happen in a lot of parts in the game.)

Adjusting the the amount of trib runs needed to complete the sets would be a good compromise where no content was removed (and it still would be required to play the zones in tribulation mode) - just the amount of time would be reduced. No reason to complain here. (Unless it is about the other stuff I mentioned above - but it happens everywhere and they just don't care about the handful of people that whine because of this.)

I don't agree on taking up payed free days for farming lol. That certainly is not the definition of "festvial" - in my opinion. The game should be fun. Not taking free days at work to "work" in the game lol. + on halloween you can just pre-farm other content during the year then buy the halloween currency for gold on the TP and log in during halloween and buy the stuff from the vendor. That is a bit different than for the festivals with the account bound currency or stuff like the tribulation skins where you actually need to play tribulation mode repeatedly.

What I agree on is that the SAB is pretty unique. Even among the festivals. If they did not add more tribulaton modes and/or skins (at least no further trib skin sets9 for W3/W4 it could easily avoid even creating a problem. With W3 the test zone the current deves already showed that they are greater than the famous Joshua Foreman some people like. Lots of different stuff. And they should complete W3 and W4 first before even thinking about adding tribulation modes - since people (as explained a lot of times) want more new content in SAB and tribulation is just another diffuculty. Better to have a new zone = new content.

With the coin adventure at the kind of mini JP in the test zone (before the chest) people could use that as a mini trubulatoin difficulty thing for bragging - trying to do the jumps fast and comparing their times. Totally enough. And for a W4 I could even imagine a tower-like castle as one zone open-world like (like the Tower of Nightmares). There is no rule to have all worlds set up similar than W1 and W2 and the test zone proved this with a lot of small changes (freely selectable checkpoints for example).

And yes: We don't need every reward. But the "completionist" stuff is a thing amongst gamers. (And ArenaNet probably knows this. That is why they also make grindy stuff as an easy way to get people to repeatetly play content. But for stuff like convergences and the skyscale weapon sets it is not a problem - nobody complaines there since it is permanently available.)

It has nothing to do with Tribulation runs or anything like that. It's simple math on how much time the Activity SAB takes.

If SAB is set to take 1 hour and the distribution is W1 (20 minutes) + W2: (40 minutes) =1 hour then adding, and this will only be relevant in the future, adding a W3 (20 minutes) + W4 (20 minutes) will bring the total time needed to do the Activity SAB up to 1 hour and 40 minutes. Then you need to cut 20 minutes off W2 just to even make it close to 1 hour of time spent on the Activity SAB. It's less than optimal and people can psychologically deal with.

I would be fine with Tribulation Mode sending you into an unedited map since Tribulation Mode is meant to eat a lot of time. Regular Mode is meant to be done quickly.

[Sobx.1758]

28 minutes ago, Malus.2184 said:

It has nothing to do with Tribulation runs or anything like that. It's simple math on how much time the Activity SAB takes.

If SAB is set to take 1 hour and the distribution is W1 (20 minutes) + W2: (40 minutes) =1 hour then adding, and this will only be relevant in the future, adding a W3 (20 minutes) + W4 (20 minutes) will bring the total time needed to do the Activity SAB up to 1 hour and 40 minutes. Then you need to cut 20 minutes off W2 just to even make it close to 1 hour of time spent on the Activity SAB. It's less than optimal and people can psychologically deal with.

I would be fine with Tribulation Mode sending you into an unedited map since Tribulation Mode is meant to eat a lot of time. Regular Mode is meant to be done quickly.

The rule you're making up here does not exist. None of the content -like story, raid wings, strikes, fractals, metas and so on- is intentionally nerfed or cut into smaller pieces to take less time whenever new part of that content is released. What you keep describing in your posts is not a thing.

Edited May 2 by Sobx.1758

[Malus.2184]

2 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

The rule you're making up here does not exist. None of the content -like story, raid wings, strikes, fractals, metas and so on- is intentionally nerfed or cut into smaller pieces to take less time whenever new part of that content is released. What you keep describing in your posts is not a thing.

It's literally how you do an Activity Analysis since you have to take the person you're designing it for energy levels into account. A person in good health can keep going for longer and at a higher pace than a person who has atrophy.

To my knowledge, none of the things you mention have ever been expanded once they were put into the game. They were all delivered feature complete. The only thing that comes to mind that can be even remotely used in a correct analogy is the removal of the skippable cut scene in Uncategorized.

If I'm mistaken then please provide me with examples of of every instance where more stuff was added to them later? Unless you can do so for all of them I'll just assume that bit was rectally sourced.

Really? Story? Could you be more obvious in how disingenuous you are in this? Every part of the story in the LW seasons was related to a map and new bits were never added until new maps were added. In the map, the story was feature complete.

SAB will have more content added with every zone implemented until it's complete when, I assume if the pattern holds, there are 12 zones in total, then and only then SAB is feature complete. This makes it unique compared to the other things you mentioned. 

When all that is said and done I wish ANet would redesign Serpent's Ire because that meta is scuffed in the design.

[Sobx.1758]

59 minutes ago, Malus.2184 said:

It's literally how you do an Activity Analysis since you have to take the person you're designing it for energy levels into account. A person in good health can keep going for longer and at a higher pace than a person who has atrophy.

It literally isn't a rule in place, as explained in my previous post. It doesn't need to take "your energy levels" into account, because nobody expects you to clear everything at once all the time. If you're choosing to do so, it's nothing more than your subjective decision based on whatever you want to do.

59 minutes ago, Malus.2184 said:

To my knowledge, none of the things you mention have ever been expanded once they were put into the game. They were all delivered feature complete. The only thing that comes to mind that can be even remotely used in a correct analogy is the removal of the skippable cut scene in Uncategorized.

If I'm mistaken then please provide me with examples of of every instance where more stuff was added to them later? Unless you can do so for all of them I'll just assume that bit was rectally sourced.

...so you think we didn't get new parts of the story? New strikes? New raid wings? If nothing was expanded "to your knowledge" then that just means your knowledge is incomplete. Check the release dates on wiki and stop making up rules that aren't there, it doesn't work. The fact that you're even unable to draw a direct parallel between each sab "World" release to each raid "Wing" release is saying enough.

Edited May 2 by Sobx.1758

[Malus.2184]

On 5/2/2024 at 10:20 PM, Sobx.1758 said:

It literally isn't a rule in place, as explained in my previous post. It doesn't need to take "your energy levels" into account, because nobody expects you to clear everything at once all the time. If you're choosing to do so, it's nothing more than your subjective decision based on whatever you want to do.

...so you think we didn't get new parts of the story? New strikes? New raid wings? If nothing was expanded "to your knowledge" then that just means your knowledge is incomplete. Check the release dates on wiki and stop making up rules that aren't there, it doesn't work. The fact that you're even unable to draw a direct parallel between each sab "World" release to each raid "Wing" release is saying enough.

Yes, telling someone with an education in occupational therapy that the energy levels of a person have nothing to do with measuring activities is bold, and it's also quite...an interesting choice. Especialæly since I can find multiple sources on it being real (https://scholar.google.dk/scholar?q=energy+schedule+occupational+therapy&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart)

They're all separate things where you lose nothing by doing them at separate times within a week when it comes to raids. The reward structure of SAB incentivises people to do everything daily. While you can spread it out over a week you lose out, and that nudges the person to do it after the schedule they feel has been set for it. In that structure, people will feel that they have to do it to keep up and when it takes more time than they have they'll feel cheated.

If you can predict how FOMO affects people you can predict their behaviour.

[nosleepdemon.1368]

Ah, you’re an expert! Sorry, none of us had any idea you were an EXPERT. Well that changes everything! You clearly have an insight into Guild Wars 2 that we don’t; you see this whole time I thought since ANet had, at no previous point, cut down content to make it as a whole fit some arbitrary time limit which conveniently coincides with the amount of time you prefer to spend on said content, that your argument was nonsensical. But actually you were right this whole time, because you have a background in occupational therapy! Gee, I wonder what my background in… ah shoot, I won’t even say it, I’d only embarrass myself.

[Sobx.1758]

6 hours ago, Malus.2184 said:

Yes, telling someone with an education in occupational therapy that the energy levels of a person have nothing to do with measuring activities is bold

It's not "bold", it's factual. "Occupational therapy" has nothing to do with you wanting to run more content in the game faster for easier/faster rewards. Try connecting the dots instead of writing seemingly random things and claiming it's relevant to the thread or your made up rules that clearly aren't actually set in place here -exacly as explained in the previous posts. Just like previous argumnets, your attempts to avoid them won't make them go away.

6 hours ago, Malus.2184 said:

They're all separate things where you lose nothing by doing them at separate times within a week when it comes to raids. 

Exactly the same way you don't lose anything in this case. You wanting to rush rewards over what you're comfortable with is the same in all of those cases and all of those cases don't have "a set maximum time of gameplay that gets squished with next releasese of the content type". You're making up something that isn't a thing here.

6 hours ago, Malus.2184 said:

The reward structure of SAB incentivises people to do everything daily.

The same way everything with "daily" or "weekly" limits does it. Notably -and most obviously- raids and strikes which were mentioned in the previous posts and consistently avoided by your subsequent posts. But, again, your avoidance won't make the facts go away. None of the content is made shorter or cut into smaller pieces just because more content of that type is being released. This is not a thing. You're making up a rule on the spot in order to get more/faster/easier rewards. And a quick reminder (again) that you're doing it after specifically claiming "it's not about rewards".

6 hours ago, Malus.2184 said:

In that structure, people will feel that they have to do it to keep up and when it takes more time than they have they'll feel cheated.

Spoiler alert: if they wanted the players to complete everything in a single festival "season", they wouldn't release collections that are made to be literally impossible to complete in less than 4 "seasons". Your reasoning is specifically made up because you want rewards faster/easier/now. But, as already explained, those rules rather clearly aren't a thing that are actually set in place here.

Edited May 5 by Sobx.1758

[Malus.2184]

15 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

It's not "bold", it's factual. "Occupational therapy" has nothing to do with you wanting to run more content in the game faster for easier/faster rewards. Try connecting the dots instead of writing seemingly random things and claiming it's relevant to the thread or your made up rules that clearly aren't actually set in place here -exacly as explained in the previous posts. Just like previous argumnets, your attempts to avoid them won't make them go away.

Exactly the same way you don't lose anything in this case. You wanting to rush rewards over what you're comfortable with is the same in all of those cases and all of those cases don't have "a set maximum time of gameplay that gets squished with next releasese of the content type". You're making up something that isn't a thing here.

The same way everything with "daily" or "weekly" limits does it. Notably -and most obviously- raids and strikes which were mentioned in the previous posts and consistently avoided by your subsequent posts. But, again, your avoidance won't make the facts go away. None of the content is made shorter or cut into smaller pieces just because more content of that type is being released. This is not a thing. You're making up a rule on the spot in order to get more/faster/easier rewards. And a quick reminder (again) that you're doing it after specifically claiming "it's not about rewards".

Spoiler alert: if they wanted the players to complete everything in a single festival "season", they wouldn't release collections that are made to be literally impossible to complete in less than 4 "seasons". Your reasoning is specifically made up because you want rewards faster/easier/now. But, as already explained, those rules rather clearly aren't a thing that are actually set in place here.

Occupational therapy is about analysing activities. What you're doing is poisoning the well, or at least trying to, by giving a reason ahead of making any actual arguments that what I say should be dismissed. You keep moving the goalposts. First, it was, "This is just something you made up," and now it's, "This is made up in this context." It's called extrapolation where you take one thing and then use the theory on something else, https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/extrapolation. If this was false then it would be impossible to accurately predict and control the spending behaviour of in-game cash shops by using psychology, and gaming companies are explicitly hiring people with an education in psychology to optimise their cash shops. Just look at Blizzard and Diablo Immoral.

People will feel that they have lost something and that's enough. If people only have an hour to do something and before it could be done in an hour and it now requires 1 hour 40 minutes to do and the rewards for doing those things are given once per day rather than once per week they'll feel that they have lost out on something. The only other alternative to keep people engaged in this is to change the rewards for completing each zone to Difficulty Reward*7 Bauble Bubbles and then make the reward weekly. How satisfied would you be with that? No content at all would have to be cut off, only people's reason to engage with the content.

Yeah, none of it was made shorter because it was feature-complete when it was implemented in the game. The IBS strikes are the best example of this as the reward is daily. New strikes were added and none of the existing strikes had additional phases added to them, you can also complete the strikes in considerably less time than it takes to commit to SAB. You keep harping on this seemingly thinking you found a "gotcha" without understanding the context of any of it. I've explained the context to you before and when I have your reply has been "N NOPE,  NOT IT!" There's nothing I can do to convince willful ignorance and at this point, I argue for those who might see this and think you have a point when all you have is repeating the same talking point over and over again like a broken record.

Those are COLLECTIONS means to take t time it has nothing to do with actively doing the thing. They're collateral for doing the things. With that argument, you're essentially arguing that apples are the same thing as oranges when the reality is that one fruit should be thought of as the main course and the other as the desert, instead of, both as the main bourse.

[Sobx.1758]

9 hours ago, Malus.2184 said:

Yeah, none of it was made shorter because it was feature-complete when it was implemented in the game.

Wrong, as mentioned in the previous posts, if that's what you think, you should go check the dates of release of each of the raid wings, for example.  Your'e making up a rule that isn't and never was in place, simply because you want to rush for the rewards asap to then complain that "maybe you'll be burned out because of it!". All of that while trying to pretend "it's not about rewards" at the start of this thread, while it clearly is ALL about rushing out every bit of reward/bauble you can get.

[Malus.2184]

13 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Wrong, as mentioned in the previous posts, if that's what you think, you should go check the dates of release of each of the raid wings, for example.  Your'e making up a rule that isn't and never was in place, simply because you want to rush for the rewards asap to then complain that "maybe you'll be burned out because of it!". All of that while trying to pretend "it's not about rewards" at the start of this thread, while it clearly is ALL about rushing out every bit of reward/bauble you can get.

You're incorrect in your implied conclusion. Each raid wing is its own Activity. People just do it as one activity because then it's done and gone for the week. Doing all raid wings as one activity takes on average around 3 hours from what I can see. That means that if you spread it over the entire week you can do it as seven Activities that each take about 25 minutes on average.

SAB is implied to be one Activity by the fact that you have one daily category with several goals that are spread across the zones. When the X CMs achievement was still around it was weekly, which implied that it could easily be broken up.

[Luthan.5236]

On 5/2/2024 at 6:39 PM, Malus.2184 said:

It has nothing to do with Tribulation runs or anything like that. It's simple math on how much time the Activity SAB takes.

If SAB is set to take 1 hour and the distribution is W1 (20 minutes) + W2: (40 minutes) =1 hour then adding, and this will only be relevant in the future, adding a W3 (20 minutes) + W4 (20 minutes) will bring the total time needed to do the Activity SAB up to 1 hour and 40 minutes. Then you need to cut 20 minutes off W2 just to even make it close to 1 hour of time spent on the Activity SAB. It's less than optimal and people can psychologically deal with.

I would be fine with Tribulation Mode sending you into an unedited map since Tribulation Mode is meant to eat a lot of time. Regular Mode is meant to be done quickly.

I tried to explain the difference with tribulation mode: You need to to the tribulation mode to get the skins unique to it. For the normal mode it is (after doing the main 1-time achievements) mainly repeating it quickly for the bauble bubbles (to buy stuff from the vendor). Yet people did not seem to unterstand it and think where never would be stuff made easier ... when adding the test zone already gave more options to get daily bauble bubbles (making it easier to obtain older stuff from the vendor). And the weekly included additional boxes for the crimsom assassin tokens.

Yes. Other festivals also need you do play them multiple times to get everything. And the crimson assassin tokens also need you to play it multiple years - to get the full set. The tribulation mode is not just a "split it on 3-4 years if you find it too exhausting to grind it in 1 year" since it is so much harder and more exhausting. (Though one could argue getting all the blue baubles in the old zones for the permanent achievement ... is annoying as well. Especially since the achievement is old-school style - not even a listed achievement to count them letting you get them over multiple runs. Disconnect problems there can hit hard - same as in trib.) I did it over ... like 2 years I think. A normal working person willing to put effort - but with less time (I have tons of time) might end up  with more like ... 16 years. Just getting one skin each year. (Longer than just doing the daillies to finish your crimson assassin set.) But only ArenaNet has the full date. And so far they made changes that I liked.

I guess we can discuss this further next year and/or when bigger changes are implemented that the other side might not like. (So far everything to my liking and  a lot of people - even the ones argumenting otherwise against the things recently talked about in this thread ... seem to like the test zone.)  Now it is up to ArenaNet to prepare for the next year SAB - and for the other stuff we get this year in other areas of the game.

[Sobx.1758]

6 hours ago, Malus.2184 said:

You're incorrect in your implied conclusion. Each raid wing is its own Activity.

By that exact same logic, each SAB World is its own Activity. And it's even better than raid wings, since you can pick any single zone from any single world at any given time, you don't need to complete 1 and 2 to start playing through 3. You're incorrect in your claims about "total time per content" being a thing in this game and so your proposal to keep squashing/cutting content whenever a new part is released is baseless (and, still, obviously directed at having more/faster rewards, despite you initially trying to claim it's not that).

6 hours ago, Malus.2184 said:

SAB is implied to be one Activity by the fact that you have one daily category with several goals that are spread across the zones.

Not all of them at the same time. You only need 3 dailies (including having a guaranteed "extracurricular", so you're basically left with picking 2 other dailies) if you're aiming at completing course work. Which, btw, is something that was already explained when you attempted to build a claim about having to do every achievement each day (which for some reason included bauble collector).

Your claims are false and SAB content doesn't need to be cut nor simplified.

Edited May 7 by Sobx.1758

[Malus.2184]

On 5/7/2024 at 2:53 PM, Luthan.5236 said:

I tried to explain the difference with tribulation mode: You need to to the tribulation mode to get the skins unique to it. For the normal mode it is (after doing the main 1-time achievements) mainly repeating it quickly for the bauble bubbles (to buy stuff from the vendor). Yet people did not seem to unterstand it and think where never would be stuff made easier ... when adding the test zone already gave more options to get daily bauble bubbles (making it easier to obtain older stuff from the vendor). And the weekly included additional boxes for the crimsom assassin tokens.

Yes. Other festivals also need you do play them multiple times to get everything. And the crimson assassin tokens also need you to play it multiple years - to get the full set. The tribulation mode is not just a "split it on 3-4 years if you find it too exhausting to grind it in 1 year" since it is so much harder and more exhausting. (Though one could argue getting all the blue baubles in the old zones for the permanent achievement ... is annoying as well. Especially since the achievement is old-school style - not even a listed achievement to count them letting you get them over multiple runs. Disconnect problems there can hit hard - same as in trib.) I did it over ... like 2 years I think. A normal working person willing to put effort - but with less time (I have tons of time) might end up  with more like ... 16 years. Just getting one skin each year. (Longer than just doing the daillies to finish your crimson assassin set.) But only ArenaNet has the full date. And so far they made changes that I liked.

I guess we can discuss this further next year and/or when bigger changes are implemented that the other side might not like. (So far everything to my liking and  a lot of people - even the ones argumenting otherwise against the things recently talked about in this thread ... seem to like the test zone.)  Now it is up to ArenaNet to prepare for the next year SAB - and for the other stuff we get this year in other areas of the game.

I would take this more seriously if you had addressed the last line that you included in the quote you used.

On 5/7/2024 at 4:00 PM, Sobx.1758 said:

By that exact same logic, each SAB World is its own Activity. And it's even better than raid wings, since you can pick any single zone from any single world at any given time, you don't need to complete 1 and 2 to start playing through 3. You're incorrect in your claims about "total time per content" being a thing in this game and so your proposal to keep squashing/cutting content whenever a new part is released is baseless (and, still, obviously directed at having more/faster rewards, despite you initially trying to claim it's not that).

Not all of them at the same time. You only need 3 dailies (including having a guaranteed "extracurricular", so you're basically left with picking 2 other dailies) if you're aiming at completing course work. Which, btw, is something that was already explained when you attempted to build a claim about having to do every achievement each day (which for some reason included bauble collector).

Your claims are false and SAB content doesn't need to be cut nor simplified.

Without any context that would be something you could say, and it would be a lie. Also, logic can determine nothing on its own other than objective facts. Use 'reasoning' instead. Even going by sheer logic alone the argument is incorrect since the SAB dailies are specifically spread out over the zones. If they were individual activities all the Dailies would be concentrated around one zone at a time. So, even that lie fails when only logic is used and all the facts you omitted are used.

You're just making statements really, there are no solid arguments. The only argument comes near the end when you use the rhetoric of what I say is false (and thus implied to be a lie since the opposite of 'false' is 'true'). What I say can be correct or incorrect since it comes to an objective analysis of an activity. There's nothing emotional in that other than in me saying that people will on average feel that it's too much time. The analysis itself should never be emotional and the interpretation of the result of the analysis should include emotion.

The biggest evidence for what I say is correct is that you keep moving the goalposts and ignoring everything that goes against your emotional beliefs. So far you called energy analysis something made up, when I showed you that it was real you ignored that you had ever said something about it and moved straight on to the next talking point you had. You've also ignored the context of things I said to try and Reverse Uno Gotcha me, and you're arguing in a way that clearly is trying to pårovoke me so I would have a meltdown and you'd be able to say that I was too emotional.

Please debate with honesty.

[Forum Moderator.3074]

Locking this topic as its pretty much ran it's course