Chrono: Undo Oct 17th 2023 Nerf to Split Second

[melcor.1094]

8 hours ago, Deadmoose.6594 said:

Actually my post literally said exactly that, maybe you need to go back and read: "With power chrono damage in its current state and the survivability of most specs right now, it can't even threaten someone else side noding unless its another power chrono or a virt." Also, power chrono damage was nerfed, so yes, it could use a damage boost. If you think that they're going to nerf a ton the survivability of a ton of classes just so power chrono can do better in pvp, then I'd say you're most likely going to be wrong.

Lastly, I don't like you, so don't feel like you need to add your two cents. Nobody gives a crap about your plat 3, and you keep saying the community lacks braincells, so you're not winning anything here through your humble bragging. Everyone knows that in order to rank that high you have to manipulate the system and duoq, and you're not going to convince anyone otherwise so don't even try. This doesn't mean you're good at pvp, it just means you're good at manipulating a system that is easy to manipulate. Not everyone wants to do that.

You rly have difficulties to read correctly. First of all i never called the community braindead just the balance. Second the survivability should not be reduced so chronos do better, it NEEDS to be reduced because it is not a healthy nor skillful amount of survivability. Especially since power creeping dmg even more to counter spamable active defense will not even work. 

Also do not act as if i was the one being disrespectful or trying to win an argument by calling you unexperienced or bad at the game. It was you just starting so. I just countered by mentioning that i never saw you in any higher ranked game, not even p2. Not that you have a match with only higher ranks that often, due to population you meet lower ranked ppl quite often. So do you even pvp at all (serious question, not trying to be mean but that is what i have to ask myself considering i never met you ingame and your name is quite notable, or do you just pvp with a different account)? And no, i neither duo q nor manipulate or wintrade. But since i can easy just claim that without any abiltiy to prove it right now, it makes no sense to discuss that further, you either believe me or not (second is most likely, since you prefer to think the worst about someone disagreeing with you i guess). Not me, YOU made it into a personal matter starting to be destructive and subjective. For example it does not matter if you like me or not (or what i think about you), when we try to discuss about balance. Pretty low conflict- and social competence actually. 

All im up for( and that should be pretty clear to everyone who is actually able to read correctly), is to add some skill- and brainrequirement back into this game and asking for buffs to stuff that is a bit or even a lot behind the top meta picks will do the opposite to the game, no matter what class or build we talk about.

 

10 hours ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

Never raise the survivability of chronomancer whatever the circumstances. Chronobunkers and chrono support are a chore enough already as it is.

You can easy add mobility to mesmer at places where bunker builds will not be able to pick it, because they would lose other forms of defense or heal abilities they need more for their actual role than mobility (the power of opportunity costs in balancing), especially not adding mobility to choas or inspi but in traitlines and slots where roaming mes can pick it with lower costs than a bunker mes would. Also you easy can and should reduce other forms of survivability on mesmer anyway in the process (inspi and chaos are still a problem even after recent changes)

For me it feels ppl often only have one specific adjusting screw in mind and argue in a limited view about stuff they think is possible or not. But you can easy make stuff possible when looking at the whole picture of the class/ game and adjusting several scews in the correct direction and correct amount. Also you need balance devs way more knowledgeable and competent than the devs Arenanet has since years and also more resources the company seems to have. I will give you that. But stopping to make senseful balance suggestions and instead trying to make the best out of what you think is only possible anyway with anet, will only make the game worse in the long run. So in my opinion ppl should make balance suggestions regarding to how the game should be (skillful, fair balanced etc.) and not a limited version of suggestions they think might have a chance to happen, while accepting the current horrible gamestate to 80% or other ppl who  just complain when their favorite build or class is not fotm. 

Edited April 27 by melcor.1094

[Flowki.7194]

Im not complaining if mesmer in general is underplayed with its current mechanics. If its not spamming you with confusion its spamming you with daze, if not daze, then its invuln/block spam. All of those mechanics (ontop of target drops) lead to a very uninteractive engagement of just checking your debuffs, checking their buffs, and retargeting, it isn't fun to fight, ever. It isn't the only one mind you, SLB is still annoying af as nion all of its damage is track/lock on, with enough stab/0 0 0/stealth/cc to make it 1 way traffic for the first 10 seconds, WB is much the same, and thief is thief. They are just unengaging to duel.

 

Would they change mesmers reliance on this lack of interactive dueling? Unlikely, wish they would though.

Edited April 27 by Flowki.7194

[vanflyheight.6832]

If alot of ya guys think that chrono/mirage/virt is ok as it is, then ya dont know mesmer like ya think ya do. Taking power chrono for one, it gets too much counterpressure to be affective. Cata- aoe pressure which destroys the mes clones, alot of cc on scept which locks down a mes with 1-2 stunbreaks and one of those is more likely a stealth which is their only survival. Alot of dmg which again kills clones. plus lets not forget that cata runs ES( earth shield) which is proj block/mag aura vs a mes using OH pistol or virt on shatters even with the unblockable trait. Necro- condis+chill+weakness really screws a mes 4x over with lil condi cleanse and with weakness cuts the dmg by alot. Ranger- sic em with reveal which gives em little to no chance of survival less using the terrain to block projectiles or have to kite away till their skills are on cd. Thief- natural predator to mes which can just do a ton of dmg with no way to counter em less ya can outskill em or maneuver. Engi- specially on holo that also destroys clones, blocks against proj and decent cc so ya get locked down quite fast when a mes is facing a 1v2 or 1v3. rev- shiro port, good dmg, vindi with dmg on dodge (which is a copy and paste from bound thief). Any bunker build like warr, scrapper, ele, guard is just a tickle from any mes build in the current state. Guard- specially dh with traps that also destroys clones, cc/lock down with elite trap or LB 5. Then ya also have spear of justice which is a tether and can yank ya from 1200 range or more even with porting, plus also has reveal again which is anti-stealth. 

So with alot of mesmers kit least on power, gets hard countered to where their completely useless or are just feeding the other team kills. So when ya get any mes on a team its an automatic 4v5 since a mes is total deadweight and does nothing. Pistol OH- projectile, Focus OH- temp current got nerfed in the radius department recently, plus the phantasm does nothing except as a distraction and most know where the mes is by tracking their movements. Torch OH- condi cleanse on 4 which became decent due to getting a buff, but ya have the phantasm on 5 which is a frontal cone of burn dmg which any player smart enough can side step or dodge through it. Dagger main- complete joke since its release which has gotten no cc, no boons, no condis (less traited on virt) which is also a complete joke. like the corruption traitline on rev does better condis since one of the GM traits does poison and burn on legend swap, so why cant mes get some of the same good treatment that the other classes have. At least give it something where it can do dmg and get kills instead of being a huge paper weight. Lastly theirs shield OH which some have covered above but still adding, double block on 4 but the tides of time only goes in the direction its thrown out and is heavily wonky against terrain on return. 

So the user is able to catch the tides of time on return half the time and even then ya have to position correctly or have to know where the pathing is on it to catch. Then ya have alot of traits on mes which have been reworked or nerfed where they shouldnt of been, which has crippled the class into uselessness in pvp just to make it better in pve. Ya also have the recent rifle release which puts mesmer into a bunker build which has taken it far away from its original design in the first place which we dealt with this back when bunker chrono was a thing during HoT and now welcome to bunker mes again. 

[arazoth.7290]

Ai chat summarise used*:

The player may be experiencing challenges and frustrations in PvP gameplay with their Mesmer profession due to skill issues and specific matchups.

[Deadmoose.6594]

9 hours ago, melcor.1094 said:

Second the survivability should not be reduced so chronos do better, it NEEDS to be reduced because it is not a healthy nor skillful amount of survivability. Especially since power creeping dmg even more to counter spamable active defense will not even work. 

Sure, but what even is the point in asking for these large sweeping changes? It’s never going to happen. I am suggesting that power chrono does more damage to be viable in pvp, because right now its a joke. That at least is doable and likely to happen.

 

9 hours ago, melcor.1094 said:

I just countered by mentioning that i never saw you in any higher ranked game, not even p2.

I have been playing consistently for 2+ years, probably 1600 matches played. When I said you weren’t speaking from experience I meant you didn’t seem like someone who actually plays a power chrono. Vanflyheights comment above is actual insight into whats wrong with the class right now.

[melcor.1094]

2 hours ago, Deadmoose.6594 said:

Sure, but what even is the point in asking for these large sweeping changes? It’s never going to happen. I am suggesting that power chrono does more damage to be viable in pvp, because right now its a joke. That at least is doable and likely to happen.

I just explained what the point of senseful balance suggestions is, no matter if you think anet will deliver them or not: 

Quote

stopping to make senseful balance suggestions and instead trying to make the best out of what you think is only possible anyway with anet, will only make the game worse in the long run. So in my opinion ppl should make balance suggestions regarding to how the game should be (skillful, fair balanced etc.) and not a limited version of suggestions they think might have a chance to happen, while accepting the current horrible gamestate to 80% . All im up for, is to add some skill- and brainrequirement back into this game and asking for buffs to stuff that is a bit or even a lot behind the top meta picks will do the opposite to the game, no matter what class or build we talk about.  Power creeping dmg even more to counter spamable active defense will not even work. 

 

Quote

2 hours ago, Deadmoose.6594 said:

When I said you weren’t speaking from experience I meant you didn’t seem like someone who actually plays a power chrono. 

You are wrong in that one.

[vanflyheight.6832]

@melcor.1094 can ya tell us what power mesmer is then since you mentioned that one is wrong on that reply?

 

[Deadmoose.6594]

2 hours ago, melcor.1094 said:

You are wrong in that one.

You’re welcome to prove it. So far nothing you’ve said even hints that you’re maining or even playing a power chrono let alone mes.

[Rdm.3186]

21 hours ago, Deadmoose.6594 said:

You’re welcome to prove it. So far nothing you’ve said even hints that you’re maining or even playing a power chrono let alone mes.

You guys getting ridiculous, what you expect him to do? Create a Youtube channel and upload a video playing the class he is talking about? No one in the world would waste such an amount of time to prove something to a forum peepo, even more when his posts indicate pretty clear that he knows what he is talking about imo. The idea that everyone disagreeing to some class topic now needs to prove however that he is able to play the class... 😂 So guys be aware never make a post in this forum without instantly deliver a video of you playing the class otherwise you must be wrong even though what you say is correct! 😂Not to mention that his points are not even that much related to mesmer in particular but is simple basic balance logic everyone should be able to understand. "Buff something to op lvl so it can compete with said op meta makes the game worse and less skillful and is a nono". Quite simple. 

Anyway i vote for duels, give us some content Anet is failing to deliver to pvp. PLease please please! Mirror build duels ofc. Let me know time and place of the event or let us know the results at least!  🤼‍♂️  📅

CONTENT HYPE

Edited April 28 by Rdm.3186

[Deadmoose.6594]

3 hours ago, Rdm.3186 said:

You guys getting ridiculous, what you expect him to do?

It's pretty simple, no power chrono player or mes player in their right mind would disagree with us. Therefore, he just isn't one of us. I'm not saying his arguments for scaling down defensive capabilities are invalid, but I am saying he's not speaking from experience when commenting on the state of chrono/mes.

[Shagie.7612]

i don't think u mesmer players know the meaning of glass

i'll trade you my glass cannon for yours any day lol

[Aaron.1294]

@Deadmoose.6594You're literally like every other OTP forum player, hence why gw2 is in such awful state xD

Edited April 29 by Aaron.1294

[Rdm.3186]

4 hours ago, Deadmoose.6594 said:

It's pretty simple, no power chrono player or mes player in their right mind would disagree with us. Therefore, he just isn't one of us. I'm not saying his arguments for scaling down defensive capabilities are invalid, but I am saying he's not speaking from experience when commenting on the state of chrono/mes.

That is prime narrowness and stubborness, you must be trolling 🤯 when he disagrees he must be wrong and do not play the class. And the only way to prove that he is playing the class is to agree to you! Forum logic at its best. 

Anyway just duel, wrecking you might be enough fun for him to invest that time...

Edited April 29 by Rdm.3186

[Terrorhuz.4695]

14 hours ago, Rdm.3186 said:

You guys getting ridiculous, what you expect him to do? Create a Youtube channel and upload a video playing the class he is talking about?

Ok but I still can't agree with his claim tho. GS chrono must go full glass to deal... idk, average-ish damage? Which is also extremely easy to play around?

• Weakness alone denies gs chrono entirely: you're playing with ABSOLUTELY NO CLEANSE. I can't stress this enough, I've landed full combos on thieves and they survived because I had weakness and I couldn't remove it. A big problem when half of the meta shits weakness passively, and most of the times it's also very long.
• Stab allows you to basically ignore a gs chrono: no grav well = you just walk out\late dodge their shatters. You might hope to get a lucky rip on their stab, but...
  • there's a lot of boon vomit and more often than not you'll get killed because you tried to counter pressure but you ended up stripping the pulsing 120s swiftness instead of the actual boon you need to remove
  • how are you going to land the shatters to strip stab WITHOUT landing a CC to allow your shatters to hit first...?
• Gravity well is bugged and you can get out of it without stunbreaks: literally keep your finger on any evade\block skill and you'll get out of gravity well. No stunbreaks required.
• You can't move. Literally slowest class in the meta; even guardians with swords will outrun you. And God forbid a necromancer lands any chilled on you, you're instantly dead.

If I wanted to play gs, chrono would be my last option. Gs mirage is better (F1 works properly, you have very high mobility with sword ambush and you can fight at range with gs ambush), core gs it's better (you can get two damaging traitlines AND illusions AND stealth; you actually kill people with that), virtuoso gs is better (you can straight up fight at range without ever needing to come melee; on top of that, boonrip is actually very reliable and you also get to kite with sword). And even then, those options -all straight up better than chrono- are still very average at best when compared against the rest of the meta, if not straight up worse.

There was a very good case to use gs chronomancer before the F1 nerf: damage per tick was lower but making both ticks land would get higher damage, it's an actual tradeoff -no stealth combo because it's too slow, but you're rewarded with higher damage if you set it up with stun\immob). After the nerf a chrono F1 deals pretty much the same damage as a core F1, except it's so much slower. It's not a tradeoff, it's a very significant nerf.

Edited April 29 by Terrorhuz.4695

[Rdm.3186]

29 minutes ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

Ok but I still can't agree with his claim tho. GS chrono must go full glass to deal... idk, average-ish damage? Which is also extremely easy to play around?

• Weakness alone denies gs chrono entirely: you're playing with ABSOLUTELY NO CLEANSE. I can't stress this enough, I've landed full combos on thieves and they survived because I had weakness and I couldn't remove it. A big problem when half of the meta shits weakness passively, and most of the times it's also very long.
• Stab allows you to basically ignore a gs chrono: no grav well = you just walk out\late dodge their shatters. You might hope to get a lucky rip on their stab, but...
  • there's a lot of boon vomit and more often than not you'll get killed because you tried to counter pressure but you ended up stripping the pulsing 120s swiftness instead of the actual boon you need to remove
  • how are you going to land the shatters to strip stab WITHOUT landing a CC to allow your shatters to hit first...?
• Gravity well is bugged and you can get out of it without stunbreaks: literally keep your finger on any evade\block skill and you'll get out of gravity well. No stunbreaks required.
• You can't move. Literally slowest class in the meta; even guardians with swords will outrun you. And God forbid a necromancer lands any chilled on you, you're instantly dead.

If I wanted to play gs, chrono would be my last option. Gs mirage is better (F1 works properly, you have very high mobility with sword ambush and you can fight at range with gs ambush), core gs it's better (you can get two damaging traitlines AND illusions AND stealth; you actually kill people with that), virtuoso gs is better (you can straight up fight at range without ever needing to come melee; on top of that, boonrip is actually very reliable and you also get to kite with sword). And even then, those options -all straight up better than chrono- are still very average at best when compared against the rest of the meta, if not straight up worse.

There was a very good case to use gs chronomancer before the F1 nerf: damage per tick was lower but making both ticks land would get higher damage, it's an actual tradeoff -no stealth combo because it's too slow, but you're rewarded with higher damage if you set it up with stun\immob). After the nerf a chrono F1 deals pretty much the same damage as a core F1, except it's so much slower. It's not a tradeoff, it's a very significant nerf.

Did you quote the wrong part? I think you refer to me saying he seems to know what he is talking about. As far as i understands him, his pov is, that chrono only has average dmg compared to op builds not compared to how the game should be as a whole. Or am i mistaken here? So every weakness of chrono compared to current gamestate ppl complain about will indirectly be reduced by nerfs to op builds, no? For example if the weakness spam is too high for a balanced gamestate he would reduce the amount of weakness spam, and chrono will be buffed indirectly by that. Or you could argue chrono needs more condi remove available without sacrificing too much dmg for it. But you would not compensate too less condi remove in the kit or a too high amount of weakness spam in the game with giving unhealthy amount of dmg to chrono. 

Also i saw Shorts playing chrono lately and just in terms of dmg his target perfectly dodged his gs2 burst and still was half hp from random things hitting delayed (clones near the target from other sources and f1) after the dodge in ffa. He also killed a player on point in 1 second and right after bursted his downstate hp in less than a second to zero. I am not saying chrono is a great pick atm but holy sanity dmg is still there. 

Edited April 29 by Rdm.3186

[Terrorhuz.4695]

34 minutes ago, Rdm.3186 said:

yadda yadda yadda

No, I don't want chrono to have survivability. I want chrono to have the old damage on F1 and improve the facing requirement on gs2. If I want survivability I can build for that and I give up damage as it should be. But if I'm going glass, I want the glass.

Edited April 29 by Terrorhuz.4695

[Deadmoose.6594]

16 minutes ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

But if I'm going glass, I want the glass.

This one line summarizes my chief complaint about power chrono right now. This is why we need to listen to people who actually play the class as opposed to be people who just observe it even though they have a lot of experience in pvp. The people who have played power chrono are literally dogpiling about why its ineffective right now, it needs to change, period.

[Terrorhuz.4695]

Also, about shorts and chrono

 

[Rdm.3186]

20 minutes ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

But if I'm going glass, I want the glass.

You clearly have glass dmg on chrono. Then do not complain over missing condi remove as full glass 😂 Or ask for anet to reduce the unhealthy amount of weakness spam?

[Terrorhuz.4695]

4 minutes ago, Rdm.3186 said:

You clearly have glass dmg on chrono.

No I don't, that's the whole point I've been bitching about this whole time. Shorts is critting for 800 on F1 against light classes... and gs chrono has no fury, on some hits he gets as low as 350. Want to compare that with what guardians\revenants\rangers get when they go full glass?

Edited April 29 by Terrorhuz.4695

[Rdm.3186]

Just now, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

No I don't, that's the whole point I've been bitching about this whole time

I am at phone and cannot rly watch the footage right now, will check later if we can find the reasons why it was low in that moment but as said i could link fights where you see high dmg done by him.  

[Terrorhuz.4695]

4 minutes ago, Rdm.3186 said:

I am at phone and cannot rly watch the footage right now, will check later if we can find the reasons why it was low in that moment but as said i could link fights where you see high dmg done by him.  

No kitten sherlock, if you land in melee range 2 weaponsets worth of skills + mirror image into double f1 + all the other shatters, while opponent sits in grav well with 25 stacks of vuln, they take damage. All of that could be prevented with a dodge, a daze, weakness, stability... something.

Edited April 29 by Terrorhuz.4695

[Rdm.3186]

50 minutes ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

Also, about shorts and chrono

 

Btw that happens to me too sometimes on other classes too. Sometimes skills hit for way less than they normally do. Sometimes i am sure i had no weakness on me and no prot on target. Maybe a bug?

800 f1 crit is for sure not the normal and intended dmg . I neuer did hit this low and neuer got hit that low on/ from mesmer.

Edited April 29 by Rdm.3186

[Rdm.3186]

9 minutes ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

No kitten sherlock, if you land in melee range 2 weaponsets worth of skills + mirror image into double f1 + all the other shatters, while opponent sits in grav well with 25 stacks of vuln, they take damage. All of that could be prevented with a dodge, a daze, weakness, stability... something.

The quedtion about if chrono has good dmg has nothing to do with counterplay. We talk about what dmg chrono has when he hits. No skill of any class does dmg when the target counterplays right on time. 

Edited April 29 by Rdm.3186

[Terrorhuz.4695]

6 minutes ago, Rdm.3186 said:

We talk about what dmg chrono has when he hits.

Then if all stars align it's slightly lower than what you'd get on core, because core can use dueling (ergo: superiority complex, fury and bonus ferocity from sword trait). And also core is faster. The only thing chrono has is grav well every 60s and CS every 105s, since alac generation was also quite butchered.

If chrono F1 is too high I am perfectly fine with raising the cooldown as another tradeoff: it's slower AND has higher cooldown, but if you use it properly, you are rewarded with higher damage. Chrono can be quite spammy, and this kind of tradeoff wouldn't bother me at all.

Edited April 29 by Terrorhuz.4695