Chrono: Undo Oct 17th 2023 Nerf to Split Second

[Deadmoose.6594]

3 hours ago, melcor.1094 said:

Since you think, having such a low amount of games proves anything, then i guess you want to see my number of pvp games with mesmer:

https://ibb.co/tP7D43g Playing since realese of the game with breaks inbetween. Means in total over 7k pvp games (inkluding 74 unranked matches), what is tbh also not that much overall for 10 years of playing the game on and off, still 40% of all my pvp games (around 3k) were with mesmer, with that my most played class.

Lmao only 1,000 games more than me spread out over 8 more years.

[Last Crab.6054]

no to mesmer buffs, they are in a strong spot. 

no undos and no takebacks

[Deadmoose.6594]

9 minutes ago, Last Crab.6054 said:

no to mesmer buffs, they are in a strong spot. 

no undos and no takebacks

Only mesmer in a strong spot right now is mirage, literally that's it. I'm actually in favor of some nerfs to tone it down, not sure what yet but its too strong right now and I'm sick of seeing multiple in every match.

Chrono on the other hand underperforms in literally every single metric imaginable.

[Last Crab.6054]

13 minutes ago, Deadmoose.6594 said:

Only mesmer in a strong spot right now is mirage, literally that's it. I'm actually in favor of some nerfs to tone it down, not sure what yet but its too strong right now and I'm sick of seeing multiple in every match.

Chrono on the other hand underperforms in literally every single metric imaginable.

not the support version, so i guess you have a small imagination

[Deadmoose.6594]

16 minutes ago, Last Crab.6054 said:

not the support version, so i guess you have a small imagination

How many support chronos have you actually seen in pvp???

[Terrorhuz.4695]

4 hours ago, Last Crab.6054 said:

no to mesmer buffs, they are in a strong spot. 

Power mirage is in an acceptable spot, power virtuoso is virtuoso who cares. But claiming power chrono is in a strong spot is schizoposting.

[Copyright.9082]

On 4/30/2024 at 4:10 AM, Deadmoose.6594 said:

I have nothing to prove, I'm a Legendary Illusionist.

Can I put this in my signature?

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

10 hours ago, Deadmoose.6594 said:

How many support chronos have you actually seen in pvp???

Theres one in every other game

[Deadmoose.6594]

6 hours ago, Copyright.9082 said:

Can I put this in my signature?

Its copywritten

1 hour ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

Theres one in every other game

I see mirages but no support chronos at all.

[Terrorhuz.4695]

1 hour ago, Deadmoose.6594 said:

I see mirages but no support chronos at all.

There are, it's still S tier support. You have a lot of resustain from rifle and flock+healing mantra, you still have a lot of stab from distortion and mantra of concentration, you still share a lot of regen\prot\chaos aura from chaos. It's just not so broken to the point that it single handedly denies every other support. Support chrono is objectively in a good place, the ones struggling are condi mirages and power chronomancers.

Edited May 6 by Terrorhuz.4695

[Hightop.8294]

1 hour ago, Deadmoose.6594 said:

I see mirages but no support chronos at all.

Playing support in ranked is self-torture (in particular in lower ranks, where you play). But you can check Mat vods from Teapot and check higher ranked games streamer Boyce; Sukaya etc. and see that they have a support chrono in team frequently.

Btw i was able to play chrono a bit now and the dmg was in average (i prefer to work in average instead using statistical abnormalities and footage where it was just wrong played) around 1200-1500 crit for the first of the two hits of  Split Second on medium armor with only melee gs2 amount of vuln and might. That means 2400-3000 dmg in total.  It is not that far away from what i suggested, but it doesn't feel overwhelming in current gamestate that is for sure.

Edited May 6 by Hightop.8294

[Deadmoose.6594]

3 hours ago, Hightop.8294 said:

Playing support in ranked is self-torture (in particular in lower ranks, where you play). But you can check Mat vods from Teapot and check higher ranked games streamer Boyce; Sukaya etc. and see that they have a support chrono in team frequently.

Btw i was able to play chrono a bit now and the dmg was in average (i prefer to work in average instead using statistical abnormalities and footage where it was just wrong played) around 1200-1500 crit for the first of the two hits of  Split Second on medium armor with only melee gs2 amount of vuln and might. That means 2400-3000 dmg in total.  It is not that far away from what i suggested, but it doesn't feel overwhelming in current gamestate that is for sure.

I'm a pretty average rank, so I don't appreciate the burn attempt and you've literally just proved my point for me. If the majority of pvp players are around my rank and I'm not seeing support chronos, then there aren't very many support chronos being played. I don't care if three people are playing support chrono with Teakettle and Beyonce, those aren't big numbers.

Average damage for a power chrono is underwhelming.

[Rdm.3186]

19 hours ago, Deadmoose.6594 said:

Lmao only 1,000 games more than me spread out over 8 more years.

Everytime i think by myself, when looking into this thread, "ok, now i saw the maximum possible form of stubbornness, delusional perception and limited thinking", then  you surprise me again and deliver another level. Impressive that you do not cringe over yourself at this point.

3k minus 1,6k is 1,4k. Means he almost has twice as much mesmer games as you. Overall more than 4 times the pvp games than you. Played more different metas than you, in higher rank than you, multiclassing for a wider perspective than yours. It is pretty save to say, that he has way more experiences with the game and also with mesmer than you. And probably more knowledge and understanding about how good balance needs to look like, what is not even big sience and does not require any specific mesmer knowledge, the balance basics are quite obvious, logic is the next thing to add.

More experience, higher knowledge and understanding of the game and about general balance rules and balance logic does not make him or me right by default either ofc (yet it highers the chances remarkable), but i think you can at least stop denying everything he (or others not agreeing with you) says, just with the wrong claim, that he is not a mesmer player and with that wrong by default xD 

I think my work is done here. I have said everything needed to put some sense into this thread and you guys reveal the stubbornness and deluional nonsense in your posts pretty much by yourself at this point. When even obviously experienced mesmer mains cannot stop the mediocre mesmer main clownfiesta, how could i dream of succeeding? 

Edited May 6 by Rdm.3186

[Last Crab.6054]

15 hours ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

Power mirage is in an acceptable spot, power virtuoso is virtuoso who cares. But claiming power chrono is in a strong spot is schizoposting.

Good thing I said mesmer. 

Either way, plenty of options, different ways to play.

No non mesmer wants power chrono to return to pvp, ever.

[Deadmoose.6594]

3 hours ago, Rdm.3186 said:

3k minus 1,6k is 1,4k. Means he almost has twice as much mesmer games as you.

None of this matters if its not recent experience, as in played games in the current meta. If we're averaging out how much pvp he plays compared to me, in the same timespan I would have 7k games to his 3k over the course of 10 years. I'm not saying that will happen, but I am saying that I likely play more matches than he does on a daily/weekly basis. Besides that, we've already established that he probably isn't even playing a power chrono, he's probably playing mirage or virt if he's playing a mesmer at all. You fail to grasp the simple concept behind this topic, I mean it's literally in the name. Power chrono is underperforming, you can't argue against this. Everyone who has played it, even looking at it from the most positive standpoint, says the damage is average at best. This is a power chrono left alone by the enemy team sending shatters in that damages an entire team, it's not in a good place. While Melcor's opinion is more valuable than yours, it still misses the point of this topic. I really don't know what else to tell you other than see for yourself. Roll up a power chrono, play a weeks worth of pvp matches (at least 3 matches a day), and then come back to see me. Other than that we have nothing to talk about.

Edit: I wanted to address why average damage for a power chrono being left alone to send shatters in that damages the entire team is a bad thing. First, a chrono will seldom be left alone if the enemy team is smart, because they don't want the chrono to capitalize on their damage abilities (even if it is mediocre right now). Also, its low risk high reward to go after the chrono, and doing so completely mitigates their damage to the team. So what are you left with then? Nothing. After that it is a complete liability. I'm fine with the playstyle, I actually love the playstyle, which is the entire reason why I'm vouching for this spec and asking for it to do the damage it's supposed to do. It's a kitten shame if a power chrono isn't wrecking an enemy team if its left alone to do so, it really needs to be.

Edited May 7 by Deadmoose.6594

[Rdm.3186]

6 hours ago, Deadmoose.6594 said:

None of this matters if its not recent experience, as in played games in the current meta. If we're averaging out how much pvp he plays compared to me, in the same timespan I would have 7k games to his 3k over the course of 10 years. I'm not saying that will happen, but I am saying that I likely play more matches than he does on a daily/weekly basis. Besides that, we've already established that he probably isn't even playing a power chrono, he's probably playing mirage or virt if he's playing a mesmer at all. You fail to grasp the simple concept behind this topic, I mean it's literally in the name. Power chrono is underperforming, you can't argue against this. Everyone who has played it, even looking at it from the most positive standpoint, says the damage is average at best. This is a power chrono left alone by the enemy team sending shatters in that damages an entire team, it's not in a good place. While Melcor's opinion is more valuable than yours, it still misses the point of this topic. I really don't know what else to tell you other than see for yourself. Roll up a power chrono, play a weeks worth of pvp matches (at least 3 matches a day), and then come back to see me. Other than that we have nothing to talk about.

Edit: I wanted to address why average damage for a power chrono being left alone to send shatters in that damages the entire team is a bad thing. First, a chrono will seldom be left alone if the enemy team is smart, because they don't want the chrono to capitalize on their damage abilities (even if it is mediocre right now). Also, its low risk high reward to go after the chrono, and doing so completely mitigates their damage to the team. So what are you left with then? Nothing. After that it is a complete liability. I'm fine with the playstyle, I actually love the playstyle, which is the entire reason why I'm vouching for this spec and asking for it to do the damage it's supposed to do. It's a kitten shame if a power chrono isn't wrecking an enemy team if its left alone to do so, it really needs to be.

Oh no no no no no, lets get that right:

If all of you mesmer guys have said nothing else than you think, that power chrono in your opinion is a bit overnerfed on its f1 from that patch compared to current overall gamestate or meta picks and that all you care for is being able to compete in that broken clownfiesta balance with your favorite build (lets all get assassin dmg to oneshot rangers pls^^) and that you also don't want to switch to another classs or at least pick the current meta build for mesmer to compete, and that you don't care, that your request makes the game overall worse in the long run, then:

•  maybe melcor would have still joined to tell you, that your  request makes him sad, since it is shortsighted and selfish and from a balance pov not smart/senseful.
• I would not have joined at all.

But what happend was:

• melcor joined, to point out, that asking to be able to compete in current gamestate is asking to be equally broken and braindead and he is right. If you check his profile you see him doing that on several other threads about other classes than mesmer. You disagreed to his correct arguments and called him out for not being a mesmer at all and that he has no clue and needs to prove first, since disagreeing with you and other mediocre mesmers in this thread is by itself prove that he is not a mesmer main. 
• that was where i jumped in first, asking for duels and mentioning that i agree to melcor.
• terrorhuz after that rejoined the thread to compare ables with oranges in regard of chrono vs core and i replied to that. I got called out that i have no clue because i am not a mesmer main (well i am not a mesmer main at least that much is true, still i play enough mesmer and enough of the game and know enough about basic balance rules and im able to use logic, to overall know what a good balances direction for mesmer should look like). Terror also got pretty emotional, subjective and passive aggressive while talking to me.
• several of you guys also asked for being able to oneshot with a skill ensemple of 6-7 skills (7 if you include not only torch  stealth but also mantra of pain and mi and with that every dmg skill you can include in the one first inc burst combo without increasing the kill time remarkable to more than 1 sec). I told several of you, why that is not a healthy balance request for an mmo and for a class with mesmers basic skill kit. Once again i just got called out to be wrong because i am not a mesmer main. Logical and objective arguments that actually hit truth were here also missing. Also Lincoln-something became quite passive aggressive while responding. Toxicity/ subjectivity/ aggression are the last expedients for ppl running out of real arguments.

So i have one last tip in all friendliness for you guys: pay more attention to the actual arguments of the ppl and deal with them less emotional and biased and with the usage of more real and less illusionary logic, and stop claiming that disagreeing with you must be a sign of cluelessness about mesmer and balance, and this is often your only argument that (in one case is not even true) stands its ground to be true in my case but still fails the topic and the correct arguments i have. 

 

On 4/29/2024 at 10:41 PM, Jedrik.3109 said:

3 page Deadmoose topic...

@Deadmoose.6594 well done.

PvP forum... you guys just got 1v1 by deadmoose on pchrono.

Ye we got deadmooooosed xD And he is sooooooooo good at mesmer playing in mid gold with an overall number of pvp games of 1,6k, that he can rename his clones to vanflylow, terrorhuz, lincoln-something and win every 1vX by calling you not a mesmer main (otherwise you would not disagree to him right?), what obviously FOR SUUUURE makes you wrong by default.

Edited May 7 by Rdm.3186

[Terrorhuz.4695]

7 hours ago, Rdm.3186 said:

well i am not a mesmer main at least that much is true, still i play enough mesmer and enough of the game and know enough about basic balance rules and im able to use logic, to overall know what a good balances direction for mesmer should look like

No you don't. You really don't.

And stop acting like you called out anyone, you didn't. "HURR DURR MESMER DOESN'T NEED THIS DAMAGE BECAUSE META IS BRAINDEAD AND NOBODY SHOULD DO THAT BECAUSE YADDA YADDA YADDA".

Full glass guardians have been able to drop 13.5k gs2 since forever. Not even talking about dh (even though it does the same thing); good old gs mediguardian does that. The counter is awareness; you can block the burst or dodge it, if you facetank it you die.
Rapid fire + OWP oneshotting people has been able to oneshot people since forever. Add might and sic'em, you go from 100% to finished in downstate in less than 1.5s. The counter is awareness; you can block the burst or dodge it, if you facetank it you die.
Heralds porting and killing you in less than a sec have been a thing since forever. The counter is awareness; you can block the burst or dodge it, if you facetank it you die.

I hate it to be the one breaking the news to you, but it is not a "this meta thing". Glass cannons go for oneshots. That's what they do. You give up everything except damage, and you're entitled to that damage.

Also, since the damage is focused in 1-ish second, in most cases you literally just need a dodge to remove the biggest bulk of that damage (for mesmer, dodging gs2 alone is enough to deny some 80% of the damage). Literally just dodge.

And I still can't figure out why I'm entitled to die after one mistake (a reaper lands Chillblains, I'm dead by default; and rightfully so, I removed every defensive for damage), but my opponent needs to be outplayed 2/3 times before they die. How the kitten is that fair?

Edited May 7 by Terrorhuz.4695

[Deadmoose.6594]

6 hours ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

And stop acting like you called out anyone, you didn't. "HURR DURR MESMER DOESN'T NEED THIS DAMAGE BECAUSE META IS BRAINDEAD AND NOBODY SHOULD DO THAT BECAUSE YADDA YADDA YADDA".

@Rdm.3186 this is literally you.

6 hours ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

And I still can't figure out why I'm entitled to die after one mistake (a reaper lands Chillblains, I'm dead by default; and rightfully so, I removed every defensive for damage), but my opponent needs to be outplayed 2/3 times before they die. How the kitten is that fair?

exactly

7 hours ago, Rdm.3186 said:

that your request makes the game overall worse in the long run, then:

We're arguing in circles here. We've already established that it is highly unlike that any large-scale sweeping changes are going to happen to the game mode. So why do you think undoing the nerf will make the game worse? Why are you choosing to put a stop sign here when, as we've already established many times, other class have the same damage and more survivability.

 

In summary:

1) You fail to address the main topic, and you generalize the entire mesmer class when we're literally talking about one ability on one spec

2) You keep bringing up Melcor's argument as if it is made out of gold. While he had a good point and I actually agree with him that survivability could be toned down in many cases, it's unlikely to happen. Since that won't happen, we're asking for an undo to the nerf, stop gatekeeping.

3) You continually bring up the proposed duel, and I've explained how irrelevant it is yet you continue to bring it up. Trying to get this into your head is like if my idea was in a truck and I had to drive through a wall (your skull) in order to deliver the idea to you.

4): The truth comes out, now you're bashing the game mode. While the game mode has issues, it's really not in a bad state and I play it often because I enjoy it. Unlike you:

7 hours ago, Rdm.3186 said:

all you care for is being able to compete in that broken clownfiesta balance with your favorite build

 

Lastly, I do want to thank you for continually getting Deadmoosed, and keeping this thread to the top of the forums and adding more pages to it. Not many people enjoy getting Deadmoosed, most can't hang for more than one page. With your efforts, I think the devs have seen and understood our points, and we look forward to seeing the nerf undone in the near future.

[Clumsy.7926]

On 5/6/2024 at 3:26 AM, Deadmoose.6594 said:

Lmao only 1,000 games more than me spread out over 8 more years.

Imagine being so proud of having no life

[Jedrik.3109]

6pgs.

.....

Lol.

You guys getting 1v9 in here.

He might be gold ig but he's plat 3 for forum posts.

[arazoth.7290]

1 hour ago, Jedrik.3109 said:

6pgs.

.....

Lol.

You guys getting 1v9 in here.

He might be gold ig but he's plat 3 for forum posts.

Question, I read this a lot => 1v9?. So far I can see it can be max 1v5 since you're alone on enemy and ally isn't enemy? It are wome absurd numbers eitherway so why 1v9 instead?

[Rdm.3186]

7 hours ago, Deadmoose.6594 said:

😞 The truth comes out, now you're bashing the game mode. While the game mode has issues, it's really not in a bad state and I play it often because I enjoy it. Unlike you:

What you are even talking about??? xD 

7 hours ago, Deadmoose.6594 said:

Lastly, I do want to thank you for continually getting Deadmoosed, and keeping this thread to the top of the forums and adding more pages to it. Not many people enjoy getting Deadmoosed, most can't hang for more than one page. With your efforts, I think the devs have seen and understood our points, and we look forward to seeing the nerf undone in the near future.

No biggie, if this topic worth so much to you to give all your reputation left for it (in case you even had any left, dunno meet you the first time) than it is fine. As said i personally do nto care if they rebuff Chrono f1 a bit or not, But in case Anet devs have at least one braincell left and minimum knowledge about what good mmo balance should look like while reading this thread, they will more likely take away oneshot dmg from all classes and de-powercreep this game. Sooo this can go either way i would say. Or even more likely they do not read anything here, so you and your clones became the clowns of the month for no reward.

3 hours ago, Jedrik.3109 said:

You guys getting 1v9 in here.

To my defense he has 3 clones doing a hell of a job in regard of illusionary logic as well 🤡

14 hours ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

No you don't. You really don't.

Yes i do. Yes i really do. I have 2 brothers, i can do that yes-no game for hours

14 hours ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

Full glass guardians have been able to drop 13.5k gs2 since forever. Not even talking about dh (even though it does the same thing); good old gs mediguardian does that. The counter is awareness; you can block the burst or dodge it, if you facetank it you die.
Rapid fire + OWP oneshotting people has been able to oneshot people since forever. Add might and sic'em, you go from 100% to finished in downstate in less than 1.5s. The counter is awareness; you can block the burst or dodge it, if you facetank it you die.
Heralds porting and killing you in less than a sec have been a thing since forever. The counter is awareness; you can block the burst or dodge it, if you facetank it you die.

I hate it to be the one breaking the news to you, but it is not a "this meta thing". Glass cannons go for oneshots. That's what they do. You give up everything except damage, and you're entitled to that damage.

Also, since the damage is focused in 1-ish second, in most cases you literally just need a dodge to remove the biggest bulk of that damage (for mesmer, dodging gs2 alone is enough to deny some 80% of the damage). Literally just dodge.

 

1. Lol and you think that is good balance and skillful to play? 13,5k on one skill? That is just as stupid (since it is only one skill even more stupid) than mesmers being able to oneshot. So it does not justify mesmers being able to oneshot

1. The pure existence of those dmg numbers on other classes does not prove that it is good, healthy and skillful balance. It clearly is not. It is just a casual game with incompetent devs not adressing power creep since years. So no argument to justify oneshot dmg on mesmer or on any class.

2. Ranger is even an over 2 secs channel (less with quickness true but that is somehting also should not exist). From the others i never got oneshot in a sec or less, not even when i am on a full glass build of any class. They have too much dmg too tho and that needs to be adressed as well. At least that is a legit opinion when you care about having a not so casual and higher skill ceiling game (what you clearly do not care about, you just want to compete with your favorite playstyle no matter what).

3. I already mentioned that having a counterplay is not the only variable to determine if something is healthy and skillfully balanced or not. And awareness, in a game where you have to pay attention to so many other things and where you have non organized teams outside of tournaments, is also not the strongest counter in the world, in particular when the class is able to cover the brust with stealth and porting from max range on top of you to cover the flying sword animation quite well or when the class can instant port through walls like guard. For sure can a lot of ppl who cry about mesmer have way more awareness than they do, since they often do not see or hear the mesmer torch stealthing in moments they easily could have with not tunnelvisioning on their target, pay no attention to respawn timers etc. like a gold3.. But that is not the point. 

4. My points stand, neither does an mmo need and should have assasin playstyle, nor does the basic defensive kit you always have, even when going for full glass, justify oneshot dmg. Simple balance logic. And that counts for all classes in the game, not only mesmer.  Glass builds go for high dmg (usually burst dmg) true, that does not require oneshot dmg in a sec or less. 

14 hours ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

And I still can't figure out why I'm entitled to die after one mistake (a reaper lands Chillblains, I'm dead by default; and rightfully so, I removed every defensive for damage), but my opponent needs to be outplayed 2/3 times before they die. How the kitten is that fair?

No one said it is fair and that sure should not exist either. That is exactly the point. Glass vs glass should not end up in a oneshot fiesta where the first who hit the target one time wins. How is that skillful? Fun? For a bit sure, but not skillful and also not healthy mmo balance. Just as facetanking-every-mistake-bunkers are not skillful. And the worst balance mistake are builds that have the glass dmg while having more sustain than a glass canon (the gw2 bruiser nonsense we face everywhere and CmC likes so much). And i will be the first to agree that necro needs to be de-power creeped as well. 

Edited May 7 by Rdm.3186

[Jedrik.3109]

15 minutes ago, arazoth.7290 said:

Question, I read this a lot => 1v9?. So far I can see it can be max 1v5 since you're alone on enemy and ally isn't enemy? It are wome absurd numbers eitherway so why 1v9 instead?

Deamoose topic.

Sigh..

Am I really explaining this..

Nah. Whoosh much?

[arazoth.7290]

20 minutes ago, Jedrik.3109 said:

Deamoose topic.

Sigh..

Am I really explaining this..

Nah. Whoosh much?

For that amount of text typed you could have also explained it, waste of letters 😂

[agrippastrilemma.8741]

On 5/6/2024 at 5:52 PM, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

There are, it's still S tier support. You have a lot of resustain from rifle and flock+healing mantra, you still have a lot of stab from distortion and mantra of concentration, you still share a lot of regen\prot\chaos aura from chaos. It's just not so broken to the point that it single handedly denies every other support. Support chrono is objectively in a good place, the ones struggling are condi mirages and power chronomancers.

And core. (and virt).