Power Vindicator is lacking CC.

[Cold.8173]

Title.

We essentially offer 150 CC on demand (Reaver's Rage). Technically we have the Legendary stance Jade Winds, but as a damage dealer we always have Impossible Odds activated and in a pratical scenario (fractal/raid/strike) we will never have enough energy for Jade Winds. We do have chill on on GS 3 and GS 1-3, sword 2 and a 1-second immobilize on sword 4. However, these are all part of the damage rotation and will most likely be on cooldown, and even if not, they are over-time and offer very low CC. 

There are many things that could be changed/added so here's my suggestions. I'm not suggesting all of these get added, but it would be nice with at least one of these added.

Jade Winds (Shiro Legendary)
Reduce cost from 50 >15/20, increase cooldown from 5>15. 

Spear of Archemorus (Vindicator Legendary)
Add a knockback with 150-300 CC, feels fitting with a spear attack.

Imperial Guard (Greatsword 4)
Add a Daze with 100-150 CC on the re-cast.

I am not a PvP player so I'm not sure how appreciated Scavenger Burst is over there but in PvE it's useless, so adding a CC for PvE only is an option.

What do you guys think? Do you have other suggestions? Or perhaps you think things are fine as they are now?


 

Edited June 4 by Cold.8173

[UncreativeGreen.2019]

They showed they can add “extra breakbar damage” with the dark razor utility in Kalla stance.  They could do something similar to reavers rage. That wouldn’t upset pvp either so they could make the bonus big as they want in pve. Although I don’t think it’d be healthy to have it so stacked. 

As for the other skills, GS 4 flip-over definitely needs cc, even if it we have to ton down it’s damage. I always thought a 360’ vacuum pull like mallyx or a cone pull like necro’s GS would be fitting there. Imagine double tapping skill to pile up mobs into a juicy skill 5. Yes please.

Jade winds definitely needs something, but not a cooldown increase. No skill should be a cool down longer than 10s on rev. They’re finally splitting balance again, they just need to split it from pvp and make it worth pressing in pve. You should lose some damage for it using it, but not all of it. 
Spear, idk. Back in the day I thought it’d be cool if it worked like a energy drain DH tether with a flip over or maybe Spb with its radius tether, but they just pushed it hard into damage instead of utility. The knockback is a cool idea, though for the power budget balance they selectively do for a few classes and not others, I’m sure they’d take away all its damage for that cc.

 

[Buran.3796]

1 hour ago, UncreativeGreen.2019 said:

As for the other skills, GS 4 flip-over definitely needs cc, even if it we have to ton down it’s damage

 God NO.

   True Strike damage coeficient was HALVED in February 14th 2023 from 0.3 x stack to 0.15 x stack in PvP, and later in October 17th  was DELETED from WvW (coeficient went from 0.3 to 0.05 at that game mode, a -83,3% damage reduction; that also means that you'll NEVER use that part of the skill in WvW since does no damage and generates chances of being interrupted). We don't need and extra PvE damage nerf in greatsword; is already lagging behind sword at regular sized single targets.

   If you want cc as power Vindicator run Jalis as second legend and use Forced Engagement; is one of the strongest skills for breaking defiant bars and has decent range. And if you don't like to run Jalis in your power build then just reroll to Virtuso...

[UncreativeGreen.2019]

15 minutes ago, Buran.3796 said:

 God NO.

   True Strike damage coeficient was HALVED in February 14th 2023 from 0.3 x stack to 0.15 x stack in PvP, and later in October 17th  was DELETED from WvW (coeficient went from 0.3 to 0.05 at that game mode, a -83,3% damage reduction; that also means that you'll NEVER use that part of the skill in WvW since does no damage and generates chances of being interrupted). We don't need and extra PvE damage nerf in greatsword; is already lagging behind sword at regular sized single targets.

   If you want cc as power Vindicator run Jalis as second legend and use Forced Engagement; is one of the strongest skills for breaking defiant bars and has decent range. And if you don't like to run Jalis in your power build then just reroll to Virtuso...

I know you only live in wvw land and have been jaded by years of slaps to the face, but why would you be against adding to utility to a skill that already does no damage. Change it to a defense/set up skill.  Not EVERY single skill needs to do damage on GS. If balance was actually a consideration of this game, then they could just remove some of the strike damage weight from the skill and add it back to GS 5 that they over nerfed.

As far as my quoted statement goes. I was mainly coming from a PvE point of view. GS4 is never used in PvE anyways except to cover a mistake where you should have delayed your dodge in order to avoid the mechanic rather than waste energy on the block, and most of the time you only block a single attack or the mobs attack so slow it only gets up to 3 stacks. I'm never using the skill thinking, "WOW I'm so glad this thing does damage.". GS is the BURST swap while Swords are the SUSTAINED damage. It'd be nice If I could CC things together in order to more effectively setup my burst, or contribute to a break bar in order to get to that Exposed buff faster so more of my burst damage lands inside of its duration. 

 

[Buran.3796]

23 minutes ago, UncreativeGreen.2019 said:

I know you only live in wvw land and have been jaded by years of slaps to the face, but why would you be against adding to utility to a skill that already does no damage.

  I'm more a PvP player (10k matches, Dragon Rank 498) than WvW (was 4 years in a WvW guild but my rank is only 1544) and I've spent more time in  PvE tah WvW for sure (anyway don't play GW2 that much lately/last 3.5 months).

   But I won't want to trade even more GS damage in the only game mode which still has some (PvE) for getting some cc which I don't need. Albeit to be entirely honest, I don't play power gs in PvE (only at PvP and sometimes WvW). I feel that the amount of sustain you have to give up as power Vindi in PvE in order to do "not so great damage" makes it unappealing and since ANet will never buff the sustain the only way they could hang me would be INCREASING the gs damage, not adding new features as cc in exchange of being even weaker. Same in PvP: I'm oftenly playing there with zerk amulet the reason why sometimes move to demolisher and traits with more sustain is because in full glass cannon builds the damage from greatsword Vindicator isn't that good so I prefer doing decent damage while being tanky over doing good damage while being squishy.

[Sereath.1428]

GS #4 is colossal damage in PvE when fully stacked.
Does everything have to be balanced around golem benchmarks?
No wonder why PvE here is so shallow.

Either way, asking for such buffs is just going to come with nasty nerfs. Even in PvE.
Jade Winds however should be cheaper in PvE, no one ever uses it and it's similar in PvP, the energy waste risk is too large for a mid reward. No need to mess with the cooldown.

Edited June 3 by Sereath.1428

[Angesombre.4630]

In the worst case, it could just be daze on skill 4, which doesn't reduce the damage of the competitive mode.

[Jobber.6348]

Would dig Daze on GS4 flip.

It's currently not used in Rotations anyway and underwhelming in competitive.

Having a Daze on it would make it great for PvE breakbars without needing a legend swap into someone with cheaper CC or swapping to staff. 

In competitive, would be a good punishment so you can land all hits of Skill 5.

[Sereath.1428]

That sounds good.

[Kyraios.8954]

2 hours ago, Yasai.3549 said:

Would dig Daze on GS4 flip.

It's currently not used in Rotations anyway and underwhelming in competitive.

Having a Daze on it would make it great for PvE breakbars without needing a legend swap into someone with cheaper CC or swapping to staff. 

In competitive, would be a good punishment so you can land all hits of Skill 5.

This would be cool. Maybe also instead of having a slash for true strike it could explode in a small aoe like spell breaker full counter? Or increase the speed & range of the slash? The second part of that skill is almost never used in pvp/wvw anyway. I'm not a PvE Andy so adding utility to it instead of what it currently is would be really nice. 

[Shao.7236]

Jade Wind > 35%

Problem solved.

Vindicator has enough as it is aready. Other content needs love.

Edited June 5 by Shao.7236

[Jobber.6348]

3 hours ago, Shao.7236 said:

Jade Wind > 35%

Problem solved.

Vindicator has enough as it is aready. Other content needs love.

35 in competitive sound good but PvE could be 25 or something.

35 is still a rather large ask in PvE for 300 defiance break. Or 35 but deals bonus Defiance break in PvE compared to Competitive. 

[arazoth.7290]

35% in competitive for shiro elite and dwarf elite.

In pve it can be 20% for both.

And in general for both dwarf and assassin elite, they should have a 0,5-0,75 second cast time.