Arheundel.6451 Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 (edited) I don't care if you give perma invulnerability, chain heal, chain block, aegis, protection....anything delete this bloody awful trait: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Silent_Scope This is only the 3rd time that I have wanted a trait to be deleted this badly ancient seed - gone thx god! https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Silent_Scope https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Infinite_Horizon Good thing that moa form getting nerfed, just get rid of all this garbage design, please Edited June 8 by Arheundel.6451 4 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frequency.6407 Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 Getting touched by thief and venting on forum after the match. Carry on. That's why we're on the forums. 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myror.7521 Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 (edited) Its as healthy for the Game as aoe dmg dodges doing 5k plus (see you vindi) xp Edited June 8 by Myror.7521 1 1 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flowki.7194 Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 28 minutes ago, Myror.7521 said: Its as healthy for the Game as aoe dmg dodges doing 5k plus (see you vindi) xp Hah, but given the choice, nobody in their right mind would choose dodge damage over dodge stealth. Who knows, maybe dodge stealth is so powerful anet will nerf thief staff, like they nerfed vindi URN, that el teach em. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azure The Heartless.3261 Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 (edited) Silent scope got whittled down to one second and its still causing consternation 😫 Just admit yall don't like retargeting💀 it was never the stealth was it, its the tab button check just be honest with us Edited June 8 by Azure The Heartless.3261 1 1 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shagie.7612 Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 1 hour ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said: Silent scope got whittled down to one second and its still causing consternation 😫 Just admit yall don't like retargeting💀 it was never the stealth was it, its the tab button check just be honest with us have u ever made a post about thief that wasn't about how it's actually the worst ever and everyone else is wrong deadeye gatekeeps like 75% of the game 9 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arazoth.7290 Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 3 hours ago, Myror.7521 said: Its as healthy for the Game as aoe dmg dodges doing 5k plus (see you vindi) xp kjgfhytghjghhufcgh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saiyan.1704 Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 3 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said: Silent scope got whittled down to one second and its still causing consternation 😫 Just admit yall don't like retargeting💀 Unstealrh, damage, stealth... all the while I'm spaming my retarget key while also trying to spam the very limited abilities WB has for tracking in stealth. Anet. Tell me why WB's F1 can't track in stealth the same as Longbow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azure The Heartless.3261 Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 (edited) 3 hours ago, Shagie.7612 said: have u ever made a post about thief that wasn't about how it's actually the worst ever and everyone else is wrong My posts have never even implied "thief is the worst ever and everyone else is wrong." Why are you framing them as such? It's literally meta right now, there's no reason to even pretend like it's bad (not that I'd ever do that 💀 ) They have pretty consistently been me gigglesnorting at how the traits can get whittled down to almost nothing and still get complained about. Just be honest that it's resentment. Removing silent scope won't fix anything. Quote deadeye gatekeeps like 75% of the game Anet's poor balancing gatekeeps 75% of the game. Deadeye and thief in its current and future flavors are some of many responses to poor balancing. Those classes that don't have tools to deal with deadeye cant deal with the other meta specs either. 1 hour ago, Saiyan.1704 said: Unstealrh, damage, stealth... all the while I'm spaming my retarget key while also trying to spam the very limited abilities WB has for tracking in stealth. Anet. Tell me why WB's F1 can't track in stealth the same as Longbow. I feel for you, really I do. But at the same time, Dragonhunter. Edited June 9 by Azure The Heartless.3261 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saiyan.1704 Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 Just now, Azure The Heartless.3261 said: I feel for you, really I do. But at the same time, Dragonhunter. Why? So my incredibly telegraphed F1 can be dodged? Or my F3 stability baited out because I'm trying to negate the DE's stun + high burst? DH is not even a hard counter dude lol. Silent Scope is a BS trait. Everyone hates it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azure The Heartless.3261 Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Saiyan.1704 said: Silent Scope is a BS trait. Everyone hates it. Everyone hates thief in general, this ain't new. There's a condi axe whinepost right under this one, and after that one people will groan about sword dagger. Quote Why? So my incredibly telegraphed F1 can be dodged? throw it after the dodge so it tracks in stealth. You don't even have to wait for any smoke fields to disappear. Quote Or my F3 stability baited out because I'm trying to negate the DE's stun + high burst? You could like hide behind a box. the DE can't stand on the point. It's only a problem when it's attacking you when you're distracted, and every thief is specifically designed to do that. Quote DH is not even a hard counter dude lol. It kind of is though, but that's digression. My point is " those meddling kids at it again 💀 " DE is annoying. but so is every thief. It's not gatekeeping a dang thing though, it's this: Quote Everyone hates it. Edited June 9 by Azure The Heartless.3261 Keep in mind Silent Scope is a one second stealth. This is really silly. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shagie.7612 Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 41 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said: They have pretty consistently been me gigglesnorting at how the traits can get whittled down to almost nothing and still get complained about. Just be honest that it's resentment. Removing silent scope won't fix anything. Yeah gee a smug self righteous "no actually ur all just whiners thief's ultra nerfed" definitely isn't the same thing Retargeting is annoying but annoying isn't what's causing DE to wreck everything that isn't a couple specs. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azure The Heartless.3261 Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Shagie.7612 said: Yeah gee a smug self righteous "no actually ur all just whiners thief's ultra nerfed" definitely isn't the same thing It isn't. It's not self righteous either. I am a firm believer that the issue creating threads like this is actually just resentment about dealing with thieves in general that happens to latch on to whatever trait is easiest to understand / see working in the most prominent thief build, and that said resentment will never die so it should never be taken seriously. smug, probably. Almost certainly. Depends on whether it's bannable. But I need to balance out my crippling warrior moping, so forgive me ~ ❤️ Quote Retargeting is annoying but annoying isn't what's causing DE to wreck everything that isn't a couple specs. Okay. I'll play once. Is the problem silent scope or not? If it is, then how is retargeting not the problem despite the issue being specifically silent scope? What should it be replaced by? If it isn't, then why take issue with me defending silent scope? What is? Edited June 9 by Azure The Heartless.3261 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frequency.6407 Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 Looking at all the thief whining Anet might give all classes pre-nerf lock-on. And remove lock-on from engi. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azure The Heartless.3261 Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 1 minute ago, Frequency.6407 said: Looking at all the thief whining Anet might give all classes pre-nerf lock-on. And remove lock-on from engi. I'd cry laughing 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shagie.7612 Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 2 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said: Is the problem silent scope or not? Do you really think there's anything in this game that can be boiled down to one singular thing? Yeah, it's part of the problem, and how it interacts with things like Shadow Arts being an absolutely insane trait line, rifle still being a very strong ranged weapon after a bunch of nerfs, being able to completely whiff your mark but jk refresh, and probably a handful of other things. Asking people a question about one singular part of a build in a vacuum is completely disingenuous. That's not how class development works. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azure The Heartless.3261 Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Shagie.7612 said: Asking people a question about one singular part of a build in a vacuum is completely disingenuous. That's not how class development works. I don't ask about things in vacuums. That kind of balancing is how we got here to begin with (and is probably precisely why those builds you think DE is gatekeeping don't work. Classes/specs that don't take into account the environment that they will be used in either through trait application or design are specifically the ones that don't see play.). I am also responding to a nerf suggestion that has reached a conclusion about silent scope being a significant enough part of the issue to nerf, mind you, so at least in the context of this thread I should be allowed to do so (for laughs). Quote Yeah, it's part of the problem, and how it interacts with things like Shadow Arts being an absolutely insane trait line, rifle still being a very strong ranged weapon after a bunch of nerfs, being able to completely whiff your mark but jk refresh, and probably a handful of other things. Alright. which would be the better course of action: > something tailored to silent scope, > something tailored to shadow arts, > both? Essentially, the specifics don't matter, but what kind of gameplay type do you have issue with when it comes to thieves? How should the thieves play instead? You meet a Deadeye with a rifle, what should happen for that engagement (whichever way it goes) to feel fair to you? Edited June 9 by Azure The Heartless.3261 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shagie.7612 Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said: Essentially, What kind of gameplay type do you have issue with when it comes to thieves? How should the thieves play instead? You meet a thief with a rifle, what should happen for that engagement (whichever way it goes) to feel fair to you? It's a nearly unpunishable spec by most melee (especially after engi took that lock-on nerf out of the blue) that isn't very vulnerable to stray condi tags anymore, is a 1200/1500 stealth range, an already incredibly overpowered archetype and design, that also has a very strong anti-range tool, lol Sure sounds like a good concept. Change any of that, I don't particularly care. Those aren't specific skills or traits though, that's the literal DNA of the build. Edited June 9 by Shagie.7612 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azure The Heartless.3261 Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Shagie.7612 said: It's a nearly unpunishable spec by most melee (especially after engi took that lock-on nerf out of the blue) that isn't very vulnerable to stray condi tags anymore, is a 1200/1500 stealth range, an already incredibly overpowered archetype and design, that also has a very strong anti-range tool, lol So what do you want instead? 49 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said: You meet a Deadeye with a rifle, what should happen for that engagement (whichever way it goes) to feel fair to you? Quote Those aren't specific skills or traits though, that's the literal DNA of the build. Understand what I mean about "It's people upset at how thief plays" ? It's completely fine for that to be the conclusion, but if that is the conclusion, and you want "upsetting playstyle" to be removed, you need something to replace it with that is fair for the thief to play. Otherwise I'm 💀ing, because you're hiding "I don't like how this class functions" behind "just one more nerf" with no plan of making sure the people playing the class you want nerfed get to continue playing the game. That ain't balance, that's resentment. To this day I have never seen anyone propose anything fair for the thieves to play. I ask "what do y'all want" all the time. They just lock on to one trait or mechanic at a time that won't make the playstyle change. Eventually you will run out of things to blame, probably when thief no longer gets picked, and at that point all you did was doom another class to the gatekeeping you say DE does (which I don't agree with to begin with because like I mentioned before it can't contest points and there's pillars -all over conquest- to duck behind.) If it's the DNA, adjust your scope instead of being mad at me for silently laughing when people don't adjust their scope. Edited June 9 by Azure The Heartless.3261 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shagie.7612 Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 17 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said: It's completely fine for that to be the conclusion, but if that is the conclusion, and you want "upsetting playstyle" to be removed, you need something to replace it with that is fair for the thief to play. The replacement in this situation is literally that you don't have all of that at once, lol It's significant nerfs, either by removing one of those areas or absolutely demolishing number tuning. That isn't removing an upsetting playstyle, you'd still be able to play the exact same way, you'd still have the same niche and many of the strengths. That's making said playstyle have an actual weakness. Whether that's to ranged strike, condi, not having as many escapes, whatever the case may be. 17 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said: So what do you want instead? 29 minutes ago, Shagie.7612 said: Change any of that, I don't particularly care. The answer's right there? I firmly believe that ranged builds with any significant uptime on stealth are inherently unbalanceable, and that's been absolutely true in every MMO to have pvp, but if it's going to exist, it has to have massive weaknesses. That's not the case for Deadeye. 19 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said: (which I don't agree with to begin with because like I mentioned before it can't contest points and there's pillars -all over conquest- to duck behind.) Yeah cool I can't stand on the point either when the Deadeye's around or he'll eat my face, lol The DE can absolutely force the neutralize out of me, and then we're both afk at a pillar, and the losing move is always mine. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Crab.6054 Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 20 hours ago, Arheundel.6451 said: I don't care if you give perma invulnerability, chain heal, chain block, aegis, protection....anything delete this bloody awful trait: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Silent_Scope This is only the 3rd time that I have wanted a trait to be deleted this badly ancient seed - gone thx god! https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Silent_Scope https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Infinite_Horizon Good thing that moa form getting nerfed, just get rid of all this garbage design, please I agree. Terrible design with the philosphy, but it does make me wonder how that benefits a ele/ranger main in 1 v 1, because thats all you have ever complained about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myror.7521 Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 @arazoth.7290 I remember a time when warrs reckless Dodge was a thing ^^ sadly got nerfed to the ground cause i gues 3k dmg each Dodge was too mutch xp. Now see the vindicator doing around double this dmg each Dodge with even some buffs is kinda If you ask me xp. Ah i know you now would tell me "but its easily counter able". Nah bruh for me staff warr before the nerfs was litterly the same but it also got nerfed 😜 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arazoth.7290 Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 1 hour ago, Myror.7521 said: @arazoth.7290 I remember a time when warrs reckless Dodge was a thing ^^ sadly got nerfed to the ground cause i gues 3k dmg each Dodge was too mutch xp. Now see the vindicator doing around double this dmg each Dodge with even some buffs is kinda If you ask me xp. Ah i know you now would tell me "but its easily counter able". Nah bruh for me staff warr before the nerfs was litterly the same but it also got nerfed 😜 Well, they not going to change design, same for Daredevil/Mirage because the spec is designed around it more. It's just atm you see a lot really glassy build that it gets to to these amount 3-4k+. The ones you describe 5k+ are more rare and from times it's even lower then 3 k because of defensives enemy uses so wasting my dodge for that specific is a wasted dodge. Most of the times people die it isn't because of the dodge. It can be seen as annoying I understand. If it would been reworked, we would have a really strong Energy meld skill and traits would buff it even further then. But for that they need lots of time, they can't bother, I want design different too but I don't want them too kitten it up either because fast changes by ppl not wanting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myror.7521 Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 @arazoth.7290 nah i would not call a Defence warrior glassy xp. Also i know it got some Windows where you can hit/CC it but then it also got some stabiliy and stuff. I want to be able to somehow punish it but as it stands now there is absolutely no way xD. Well aside playing Condi stuff of course^^. But on Power? Hell nah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arazoth.7290 Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 34 minutes ago, Myror.7521 said: @arazoth.7290 nah i would not call a Defence warrior glassy xp. meant rev* 34 minutes ago, Myror.7521 said: @arazoth.7290 nah i want to buy free popcorn for 2 gold. Also i know it got some Windows where you can hit/CC it but then it also got some stabiliy and stuff. I want to be able to somehow punish it but as it stands now there is absolutely no way xD. Well aside playing Condi stuff of course^^. But on Power? Hell nah If you can land and rev stunbreaks, lot of energy gone and they have to be wary a lot more for offense otherwise they die or are forced to switch stance if not on cd. General rule for all rev builds. Not talking about 1v1's here, because that matters less in the grand scheme of a match unless you're duelist build then you auto win 1v1 them. Overal power or condi, both can kill them in fights. I can show you the openings if you want 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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