Say It How It Is Balance Discussion

[Terrorhuz.4695]

On 6/27/2024 at 5:54 PM, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

his f2 even allows you to stealth yourself when you're in downstate

ain't no kittening way

[DanAlcedo.3281]

21 hours ago, EnderzShadow.2506 said:

He asked for opinions/discussion and also shared his own.

It's very similar to RL convo with a friend. "Hey Joe, what's your favorite sci fi movies of all time?. Mine are x, y and z"

Point me to the part of the first post that asked for opinions. 

Also, discuss what? 

He never said what the list is about. 

If I want to start a discussion, I first need to state what I wanna discuss. 

The fact that this is a ranking of all specs ordered by powerlevel is never mentioned. 

Or what exactly he wanna discuss about it. 

This is the equivalent of me sitting down next to you, telling you we don't talk enough and then list 10 random fruit.

Would you know at this moment what I even want from you? Not really. 

 

 

[DanAlcedo.3281]

21 hours ago, EnderzShadow.2506 said:

 

De duck happened? 

 

 

Edited Wednesday at 01:13 PM by DanAlcedo.3281

[DanAlcedo.3281]

21 hours ago, EnderzShadow.2506 said:

 

Triple post. 

 

 

Edited Wednesday at 01:08 PM by DanAlcedo.3281

[DanAlcedo.3281]

21 hours ago, EnderzShadow.2506 said:

 

Another one. 

Edited Wednesday at 01:11 PM by DanAlcedo.3281

[DanAlcedo.3281]

21 hours ago, EnderzShadow.2506 said:

 

Thanks forum. 

Edited Wednesday at 01:12 PM by DanAlcedo.3281

[EnderzShadow.2506]

10 hours ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

Thanks forum. 

did it triple post? Idk why that happened.

"Say It How It Is Balance Discussion"  <-That word implies a Discussion. I understood it. w/e. I have a different opinion than you. You really wanna go back and forth through multiple posts and replies?
Cause you sound salty af. Idc enough 😕

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

Let's steer this discussion primarily at the 3 top offenders, Vindicator, Necros, and Willbender.

Here are my detailed feelings about Vindicator:

No, it just has too much counter-offensive potential due to the raw damage on Death Drop.

When we are vs. any other build, dodge rolls are a give & take. Like you dodge and avoid something, but it also makes a telegraph for the person to follow your dodge and follow up with offense. This makes the usage of dodge rolling a skill based thing in terms of risk vs. reward with how you use your dodge rolls. This does not work this way Vindicator. Not only does Vindi have too many dodge rolls in general, but they are elongated sky dodges that don't even dedicate it into one direction for players to follow up an offense and instead allow it to move around and change directions during the sky dodge. The damage on Death Drop also hits like Ranger Maul. This forces people into a situation where even if you can follow the Vindi to attempt to follow up out of his dodge with a CC or damage, is it even worth it? I mean you're hitting him with a CC that deals no damage and you have to tank essentially a Ranger Maul level damage to be able to even land that CC. So people have to back off the Vindi's dodge and not follow the dodge with damage, due to the provided enormous counter-offense potential forced by Death Drop. The Vindi gets this massive lenience for having clean sky dodge repositions, ensuring its safety for generally maintaining the upper hand with an offensive position because you can't ride it with an offense without taking huge damage that either turns the fight around in a hurry, or you're forced to stop your offense and get off him before the Death Drop hits. It's too good at riding pressure due to this, and it is extremely difficult to find any moment if it exists at all, to create a momentum shift if the Vindi is riding pressure, due to Death Drop alone.

Few things come to mind here:

1. It either needs less frequency of dodge rolling
2. Or less damage on Death Drop, it could afford to lose about 25% of its damage potential
3. Or make it so Death Drop has a 1/4th cast time out of the dodge that can be interrupted with a CC so there is actually counterplay against it.

IMO pick one of the 3.

I don't think anyone wants to see it nerfed to the floor man, but it is honestly overperforming due to another obnoxious over-powered dodge mechanic, which is the most annoying type of OP mechanic to deal with. People absolutely do not have fun vs. OP dodge mechanics like Impaling Lotus or Infinite Horizon. That is definitely a historical thing.

Along with Vindi, Necros are honestly overperforming as well. **** has too much of everything lately. It needs to lose something.

Willbender, I dunno, it's arguable. I don't personally have a problem with it, but I know other people have arguments vs. Willbender.

[arazoth.7290]

49 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Let's steer this discussion primarily at the 3 top offenders, Vindicator, Necros, and Willbender.

Here are my detailed feelings about Vindicator:

No, it just has too much counter-offensive potential due to the raw damage on Death Drop.

When we are vs. any other build, dodge rolls are a give & take. Like you dodge and avoid something, but it also makes a telegraph for the person to follow your dodge and follow up with offense. This makes the usage of dodge rolling a skill based thing in terms of risk vs. reward with how you use your dodge rolls. This does not work this way Vindicator. Not only does Vindi have too many dodge rolls in general, but they are elongated sky dodges that don't even dedicate it into one direction for players to follow up an offense and instead allow it to move around and change directions during the sky dodge. The damage on Death Drop also hits like Ranger Maul. This forces people into a situation where even if you can follow the Vindi to attempt to follow up out of his dodge with a CC or damage, is it even worth it? I mean you're hitting him with a CC that deals no damage and you have to tank essentially a Ranger Maul level damage to be able to even land that CC. So people have to back off the Vindi's dodge and not follow the dodge with damage, due to the provided enormous counter-offense potential forced by Death Drop. The Vindi gets this massive lenience for having clean sky dodge repositions, ensuring its safety for generally maintaining the upper hand with an offensive position because you can't ride it with an offense without taking huge damage that either turns the fight around in a hurry, or you're forced to stop your offense and get off him before the Death Drop hits. It's too good at riding pressure due to this, and it is extremely difficult to find any moment if it exists at all, to create a momentum shift if the Vindi is riding pressure, due to Death Drop alone.

Few things come to mind here:

1. It either needs less frequency of dodge rolling
2. Or less damage on Death Drop, it could afford to lose about 25% of its damage potential
3. Or make it so Death Drop has a 1/4th cast time out of the dodge that can be interrupted with a CC so there is actually counterplay against it.

IMO pick one of the 3.

I don't think anyone wants to see it nerfed to the floor man, but it is honestly overperforming due to another obnoxious over-powered dodge mechanic, which is the most annoying type of OP mechanic to deal with. People absolutely do not have fun vs. OP dodge mechanics like Impaling Lotus or Infinite Horizon. That is definitely a historical thing.

Along with Vindi, Necros are honestly overperforming as well. **** has too much of everything lately. It needs to lose something.

Willbender, I dunno, it's arguable. I don't personally have a problem with it, but I know other people have arguments vs. Willbender.

Add power/condi untamed to the top of the list

Edited Thursday at 02:17 AM by arazoth.7290