Let's discuss Battlegroups

[LetoII.3782]

@SugarCayne.3098 said:

@LetoII.3782 said:You don't seem to understand, that's part of the fun

I’d imagine it sucks for anyone not political who JUST WANTS TO PLAY THE SILLY GAME.

I wouldn't know, I'm here for the social aspect of MMO's.But I'd imagine the casual who's just logging in for a fite isn't even aware of what's making their team lose and win.

[Aeolus.3615]

IMO i would not mind the batle groups thing but if that worked on a continent where would be based on conquest IMO that would be top notch.Havin g random rotation of batlegroup's against each other sounds the similiar with what we have now.. w/o the tiers.

[morrolan.9608]

@SugarCayne.3098 said:Everything you outline above can be done with the existing system.

No it can't because the current system lacks flexibility and has barriers to change.

@X T D.6458 said:You keep making this about servers, I keep telling you this is not about servers. I am in a guild, I did not start on BG. I am not interested in implementing mechanics that promote elitist behavior, creates toxicity and discourage team play in a server. I have been around these kind of people, and guilds in the past...why in the hell do you think I would want them to have control over a server?

You do not own a server, get over it, get over yourselves.

I don't think you're correct but whats the alternative? We just keep going as we are until the mode dies? Cause thats whats happening.

@SugarCayne.3098 said:I’d imagine it sucks for anyone not political who JUST WANTS TO PLAY THE SILLY GAME.

Anyone who just wnats to play will still be able to.

[jacksmith.6028]

@Thelgar.7214 said:

But how do I make sure that a guild or guild leader that I find trolly or extremely toxic to the health of the game isn't randomly assigned to the same server that I am, or that I'm not randomly assigned to a server that guild or guild leader is on as an individual?

Guild-centric anything won't change anything. Guild leaders have proven they will ruin any change. Look back to the links and the Alliance and remember it wasn't just Mal and the members of the Alliance, but all the of the guild leaders that remained on TC who agreed to work with the alliance take full advantage of the stacking of the server.

Any change that puts more control into the hands of the guilds will just make things worse.

What Mal and the Alliance did was one of the best things for the game. It tried to shake things up, something that glicko and Anet failed to do

[Swamurabi.7890]

@jacksmith.6028 said:

@Thelgar.7214 said:

But how do I make sure that a guild or guild leader that I find trolly or extremely toxic to the health of the game isn't randomly assigned to the same server that I am, or that I'm not randomly assigned to a server that guild or guild leader is on as an individual?

Guild-centric anything won't change anything. Guild leaders have proven they will ruin any change. Look back to the links and the Alliance and remember it wasn't just Mal and the members of the Alliance, but all the of the guild leaders that remained on TC who agreed to work with the alliance take full advantage of the stacking of the server.

Any change that puts more control into the hands of the guilds will just make things worse.

What Mal and the Alliance did was one of the best things for the game. It tried to shake things up, something that glicko and Anet failed to do

No, it wasn't the best. Far from it. All it showed was that Anet isn't capable of controlling WvW, a game mode many players wanted to be competitive. Eventually you look at the bigger picture and realize that the fun isn't there anymore. WvW could have been so much better.

[Roxanne.6140]

@Swamurabi.7890 said:

@jacksmith.6028 said:

@Thelgar.7214 said:

But how do I make sure that a guild or guild leader that I find trolly or extremely toxic to the health of the game isn't randomly assigned to the same server that I am, or that I'm not randomly assigned to a server that guild or guild leader is on as an individual?

Guild-centric anything won't change anything. Guild leaders have proven they will ruin any change. Look back to the links and the Alliance and remember it wasn't just Mal and the members of the Alliance, but all the of the guild leaders that remained on TC who agreed to work with the alliance take full advantage of the stacking of the server.

Any change that puts more control into the hands of the guilds will just make things worse.

What Mal and the Alliance did was one of the best things for the game. It tried to shake things up, something that glicko and Anet failed to do

No, it wasn't the best. Far from it. All it showed was that Anet isn't capable of controlling WvW, a game mode many players wanted to be competitive. Eventually you look at the bigger picture and realize that the fun isn't there anymore. WvW could have been so much better.

I guess the players who played the longest and still playing this game mode are those who take things lightly and play the game for what it is, a game.

[Trajan.4953]

All the salt, need to check mine out.

The discussion is what is important nothing else

[X T D.6458]

@morrolan.9608 said:

@X T D.6458 said:You keep making this about servers, I keep telling you this is not about servers. I am in a guild, I did not start on BG. I am not interested in implementing mechanics that promote elitist behavior, creates toxicity and discourage team play in a server. I have been around these kind of people, and guilds in the past...why in the hell do you think I would want them to have control over a server?

You do not own a server, get over it, get over yourselves.

I don't think you're correct but whats the alternative? We just keep going as we are until the mode dies? Cause thats whats happening.

I agree that changes and fixes need to be made, but that does not mean every idea is good or even practical. It is also important to remember that there are many reasons why people stop playing, or leave altogether.

If I came on here and said we need to completely overhaul WvW and change it into something completely different because I don't like X server, do you really think that is a valid reason? That sure as heck seems to be some people's motivation for supporting ideas like this.

My opposition to Battlegroups is not about servers, it is about not wanting to turn WvW into some kind of personal safe space for a bunch of closed minded players who want to exclude the rest of the population. There are other reasons as well, regarding the impractical mechanics of this concept.

[Trajan.4953]

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@Caliburn.1845 said:Battlegroups would be as exclusive or inclusive as their members wished. There would no doubt be guilds and players who would get fed up with one BG and move to another. The politics and wheeling and dealing would be beyond anything we have now in WvW. But the more successful BGs would no doubt be more inclusive, because there is a need for pugs, they're the sinew and tissue that hold a lot of servers together, and Battlegroups that discount that would be less successful in the field.

But still guild centric and, in essence, controlled by the guilds.

I support guilds running private. But guilds determining who can play in their group? No.

I get this, and I am going to caveat the following by another late-night rant...

I think the age of the PUGMander is over. I think it has been for some time. In my opinion, and my opinion only, that is because the guilds have taken control and the PuGs have turtled.

I think the guilds really control but the PuGs and the few unguilded DEAF players fight back.

My group has been up and down the ladder a few times. Every time I try and Pugmand I get the worst player playing the worst builds making the worst call-outs while dying to the worst obvious bombs. I won't pugmand anymore simply because....

The old Pugs will never change and the new Pugs are not getting taught anything.

Dammit, now I am drinking again.

[X T D.6458]

@Trajan.4953 said:

I think the age of the PUGMander is over. I think it has been for some time. In my opinion, and my opinion only, that is because the guilds have taken control and the PuGs have turtled.

Pugmanding is not dead, pugging is still a large part of WvW activity. Many people play outside of their guild raids. It can be frustrating at times. The key is to have patience and be an effective communicator.

[Trajan.4953]

@X T D.6458 said:

@Trajan.4953 said:

I think the age of the PUGMander is over. I think it has been for some time. In my opinion, and my opinion only, that is because the guilds have taken control and the PuGs have turtled.

Pugmanding is not dead, pugging is still a large part of WvW activity. Many people play outside of their guild raids. It can be frustrating at times. The key is to have patience and be an effective communicator.

I agree but I think the Age of The Pugmander is dead.

No more Xushin, no more Bannok, no more (Insert name here). The Big bois.

I get your point.

[X T D.6458]

@Trajan.4953 said:

@X T D.6458 said:

@Trajan.4953 said:

I think the age of the PUGMander is over. I think it has been for some time. In my opinion, and my opinion only, that is because the guilds have taken control and the PuGs have turtled.

Pugmanding is not dead, pugging is still a large part of WvW activity. Many people play outside of their guild raids. It can be frustrating at times. The key is to have patience and be an effective communicator.

I agree but I think the Age of The Pugmander is dead.

No more Xushin, no more Bannok, no more (Insert name here). The Big bois.

I get your point.

I understand the appeal of celebrity commanders, people will naturally gravitate towards those they are familiar with. But there are so many different ways to play WvW and have a great time. One person that puts up their tag, can do amazing things with 5 people, or even rally a group of pugs for a defense against a larger enemy force. It might not always be pretty, but man it can be so satisfying.

[Trajan.4953]

Battlegroups Bois! Lets run with our friends and just do a match-up!If you are a PuG, well nobody cares anyway, join a guild and get into the actual gameplay.

[Trajan.4953]

@X T D.6458 said:

@Trajan.4953 said:

@X T D.6458 said:

@Trajan.4953 said:

I think the age of the PUGMander is over. I think it has been for some time. In my opinion, and my opinion only, that is because the guilds have taken control and the PuGs have turtled.

Pugmanding is not dead, pugging is still a large part of WvW activity. Many people play outside of their guild raids. It can be frustrating at times. The key is to have patience and be an effective communicator.

I agree but I think the Age of The Pugmander is dead.

No more Xushin, no more Bannok, no more (Insert name here). The Big bois.

I get your point.

I understand the appeal of celebrity commanders, people will naturally gravitate towards those they are familiar with. But there are so many different ways to play WvW and have a great time. One person that puts up their tag, can do amazing things with 5 people, or even rally a group of pugs for a defense against a larger enemy force. It might not always be pretty, but man it can be so satisfying.

That wasn't the point I was trying to make.

Back in the day there were Celebrity commanders who went to Lion's Arch to try and grab people to follow. They built a following based on their Charisma and tactics. They became Demi-Gods for the un-initiated, they were the world for us at a time when nobody knew anything about WvW other than the call-out!

All that shit aside, the game has changed, so have I and you. Stop being a pussy, accept you will never be Bannok and move on.

Also give me the ice cream you are eating on the way out.

[X T D.6458]

@Trajan.4953 said:

@X T D.6458 said:

@Trajan.4953 said:

@X T D.6458 said:

@Trajan.4953 said:

I think the age of the PUGMander is over. I think it has been for some time. In my opinion, and my opinion only, that is because the guilds have taken control and the PuGs have turtled.

Pugmanding is not dead, pugging is still a large part of WvW activity. Many people play outside of their guild raids. It can be frustrating at times. The key is to have patience and be an effective communicator.

I agree but I think the Age of The Pugmander is dead.

No more Xushin, no more Bannok, no more (Insert name here). The Big bois.

I get your point.

I understand the appeal of celebrity commanders, people will naturally gravitate towards those they are familiar with. But there are so many different ways to play WvW and have a great time. One person that puts up their tag, can do amazing things with 5 people, or even rally a group of pugs for a defense against a larger enemy force. It might not always be pretty, but man it can be so satisfying.

That wasn't the point I was trying to make.

Back in the day there were Celebrity commanders who went to Lion's Arch to try and grab people to follow. They built a following based on their Charisma and tactics. They became Demi-Gods for the un-initiated, they were the world for us at a time when nobody knew anything about WvW other than the call-out!

All that kitten aside, the game has changed, so have I and you. Stop being a kitten, accept you will never be Bannok and move on.

Also give me the ice cream you are eating on the way out.

I am not trying to be Bannok, or anyone else. I am me, that's it, that's all.

Ice cream is mine /insert evil laugh B)

[Trajan.4953]

Love the Ice Cream Evil Laugh

ICEL... good guild name

[SugarCayne.3098]

@Trajan.4953 said:All the salt, need to check mine out.

The discussion is what is important nothing else

The discussion has been beaten into the ground over and over. To the point Anet stepped in and said this model is not tenable.

/endthread (until it raises its ugly head again in four to six months)

[grifflyman.8102]

I think its clear at this point for WvW to survive we need to adapt to change.

[Swamurabi.7890]

There's not many easy tweaks left for Anet to do to fix WvW population before the only solution is an overhaul part two.

[morrolan.9608]

@X T D.6458 said:I agree that changes and fixes need to be made, but that does not mean every idea is good or even practical. It is also important to remember that there are many reasons why people stop playing, or leave altogether.

If I came on here and said we need to completely overhaul WvW and change it into something completely different because I don't like X server, do you really think that is a valid reason? That sure as heck seems to be some people's motivation for supporting ideas like this.

Ah I see you think its all about BG. Well its not, its about having the best design possible for the mode. Its about stopping the player decline and ensuring the best possible experience for all players.

[X T D.6458]

@morrolan.9608 said:

@X T D.6458 said:I agree that changes and fixes need to be made, but that does not mean every idea is good or even practical. It is also important to remember that there are many reasons why people stop playing, or leave altogether.

If I came on here and said we need to completely overhaul WvW and change it into something completely different because I don't like X server, do you really think that is a valid reason? That sure as heck seems to be some people's motivation for supporting ideas like this.

Ah I see you think its all about BG. Well its not, its about having the best design possible for the mode. Its about stopping the player decline and ensuring the best possible experience for all players.

Did you even read my actual post???