Playing power builds in PvP without unblockable attacks is horrific.

[Terrorhuz.4695]

3 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Yeah c:<

I'm on Underworld right now

Square up

(After work though OTL)

I'll ping you in game, as soon as I figure out your time schedule ❤️

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

6 minutes ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

I'll ping you in game, as soon as I figure out your time schedule ❤️

I'm usually on like... 10-12 ish hours from now, so you'll probably see me wayyy into the night or early morning. I'll try to stop by as soon as I'm home c:  

Edited July 8 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Flowki.7194]

11 hours ago, Myror.7521 said:

@Flowki.7194 in what way is spellbreaker worse than virt when it comes to block Chain lols. You have clearly not Understand how to Play against any type of warr build xp. Since you also said that Condi Berserker is only dmg able when they do skullgrinder.... you know all they have is 2 single blocks and 2 Times a 1 second imune to power dmg buff right? xD..... even ranger has more than just that xp

Against Spellbreaker.... well okay this is a hard one but also do able when you simply evade its bursts (fullcounter inclueded) and yes its not too hard since you can also let enemys use fullcounter in porpose just to dodge it ^^

 

I was in a game with Zorash the other night, you can ask him to confirm this. The SPB was quite easily kiting 2 dps, being why nobody really bothers to engage SPBs, that in and of itself is toxic af. He was a decent spb, but it does not justify forcing a 2v1 which is still not a quick kill with LOS abuse. No spec in this game is hard enough to justify the requirement of a 2v1.. and if it were to be the case, it should only be full supports, who typically have 0 dmg output. SPB, with its simplicity to play, its sustain, its mobility, and its dmg output, has no fking business forcing 2v1s, it is massively overperforming, and the fact that warrior is not performing so well in other areas is no justification for what is a horedously bloated duelist spec.

 

Personally, I get so fking tired of having to give up home just becuase somebody picked warrior, so, I decided fk it.. Im going to make him work for it, with 0 intention of actually winning. I went home, and we had a deul, since I am only core rev I knew kitten well he would over commit (if he went LOS abuse mode I had 0 chance of killing him). The duel lasted over 1 min, I played 95% flawlessly.. only activating 1 or 2 FC. He ate all of my CC and all my dmg between blocks/FC. Do you really think it is ok that I have to play 95% perfect, starve the SPB of his sustain, cc/apply dmg with nion 100% success.. and he still lasted for 1 min? Does that not tell you how bloated SPB is as a duelist? Had I made just a few mistakes, down to around 80% rate, he would have won, even though I am still way above the "outplaying him" threshold. Mace ranger in very good hands is even worse than that, play 100% flawless and still lose, every time, as it is completely mechanically superior to many specs in 1v1 melee range, but it is more difficult to play so I have not seen many who are hitting that sever spec oppression rate.

 

The reason SPB is worse than virt is becuase I know kitten well a virt is dead for eating that much CC/dmg while I dodged his main attacks. Also, I do not see virts sitting on far, forcing 2v1s, it just does not happen, virt does not have the CC etc to make it work. For SPB, you have to play 95% perfect, while the warrior can still make multiple mistakes, and still lasts longer than any other spec aside from a mace ranger. And that is if the SPB decides to stick around and engage, they can litterally kite you to boredom, you leave, then they cap.

 

Zerker has enough blind/block/daze to sit ontop of its natural face tank, there is very little sustained damage to be done to a zerker when he is waiting for skull, it is even worse if youre condi. It is basically a game of "zerker going to get 3 cycles of skull, if you get hit by 1 single skull, you might lose, if you survive the 3 cycles, he might hit a CD wall, and you might win".

[Myror.7521]

@Flowki.7194 all i can say is i give other classes a try and yet do not struggle against warr. Is it tanky? Yes of course it is thats what it is supposed to be. Is it unkillable? No not at all its pretty ezy to outplay it. Is it good against badish Players? Totaly yes cause most of them do not know at all how to play against it. 

So to me If i can still win against it on other classes then its not broken ...  cause i know im realy Bad at most other classes than warr. Thats at least how i see it xp

[Flowki.7194]

21 minutes ago, Myror.7521 said:

@Flowki.7194 all i can say is i give other classes a try and yet do not struggle against warr. Is it tanky? Yes of course it is thats what it is supposed to be. Is it unkillable? No not at all its pretty ezy to outplay it. Is it good against badish Players? Totaly yes cause most of them do not know at all how to play against it. 

So to me If i can still win against it on other classes then its not broken ...  cause i know im realy Bad at most other classes than warr. Thats at least how i see it xp

If what you were saying was remotely true, then why has sPVP consistantly had an SPB/zerker duelist in almost every game, for around 2 year? The only time I remember a drop in warrior representation was when SLB maul was OP, I wonder where all the warriors went? There was also a drop in warriors around the staff nerf, and when mace ranger first hit meta, again, wonder where all the warriors went? Maces got nerfed, SPB pop increased again, clearly showing that SPB is a consistant solid duelist, to the point it takes an OP build to entice SPBs away from the spec.

 

Over the last 2 years, especially the last year, if SPB was as bad as you are trying to gaslight, it would see the diabolically low representation rates of the specs that are actually bad, take you pick on those.

 

I actually can't get over how bias you are being on this. I consistantly see plat level SPBs pushing and sitting on far, almost all game. Why on earth is that happening if SPB is bad? Cmon now.

Edited July 8 by Flowki.7194

[Myror.7521]

@Flowki.7194 well i did not said its bad. Its actually realy good and need some small nerfes (to spellbreaker not overall warr) but i still not See where it is just OP cause its only good in doing one job (side node). While others like for example ranger can technicaly also roam and plus one abit. 

In other Words .... is it strong in 1v1? Yes for sure it is. Is it maybe also too strong atm? Yes and i do not denie that. But is it so good that it need hard nerfs? Nahhh Not realy. Just Nerf its full counter or better Said just fix the bug so they can not Spam it Like 24/7 and everything is fine ^^

[Zekent.3652]

Specially if your class needs the target to be quiet to land 1 hit and no multiple hits. That's why i only play warrior builds with staff or Arms traitline.

[Flowki.7194]

1 hour ago, Myror.7521 said:

@Flowki.7194 well i did not said its bad. Its actually realy good and need some small nerfes (to spellbreaker not overall warr) but i still not See where it is just OP cause its only good in doing one job (side node). While others like for example ranger can technicaly also roam and plus one abit. 

In other Words .... is it strong in 1v1? Yes for sure it is. Is it maybe also too strong atm? Yes and i do not denie that. But is it so good that it need hard nerfs? Nahhh Not realy. Just Nerf its full counter or better Said just fix the bug so they can not Spam it Like 24/7 and everything is fine ^^

It is OP in the role it fills, and being sub-par to bad in other roles does not justify that, nor does ranger being good in other roles justify that. Good balance does not work in that way, only the justification of bad balance design does. Thief is just like this, its toxic lowest risk in-game +1s being justified becuase it is bad at standing in the middle of a group fight for more than 2 seconds.

Edited July 8 by Flowki.7194

[Myror.7521]

@Flowki.7194 well the only "OP" version of spellbreaker currently would be staff/Dagger, Shield in comb with defiant Stance. Cause its makes you imune to dmg every 10 seconds (maybe also every 5 Seconds). Since Guys tend to yolo burst into defiant stance its absolutely unkillable in ranked. 

So in this way this one build can be said is OP in ranked yes. Buuuut nerf defiant stance and everything should be totaly fine ^^. Soooo overall Said nerf defiant Stance and fix the salve mastery trait and spellbreaker should be kinda okayish 

[arazoth.7290]

11 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

 

I was in a game with Zorash the other night, you can ask him to confirm this. The SPB was quite easily kiting 2 dps, 

me attacking vigorously

[arazoth.7290]

5 hours ago, Myror.7521 said:

@Flowki.7194 well the only "OP" version of spellbreaker currently would be staff/Dagger, Shield in comb with defiant Stance. Cause its makes you imune to dmg every 10 seconds (maybe also every 5 Seconds). Since Guys tend to yolo burst into defiant stance its absolutely unkillable in ranked. 

So in this way this one build can be said is OP in ranked yes. Buuuut nerf defiant stance and everything should be totaly fine ^^. Soooo overall Said nerf defiant Stance and fix the salve mastery trait and spellbreaker should be kinda okayish 

spellbreakers, untamed, druids need some good sustain nerfs, the last 2 even more. When someoen can survive without dodging my sunless relic with sword 4 + 5 attack, elemental blast + burst of strength, switching to assassin stance and combo wombo from there. And that's without relying on these 5 sec immunity of warrior, ranger is just worse. People complain about vindi, but get a vindi locked into that, I don't have to swap assassin stance then if he is caught in the same way trapped right timing

[Myror.7521]

@arazoth.7290 yes the Problem will be you at least one warr. You eather need to kill one weapon or hard nerf the e-specs mechanic..... as said i personaly would prefer to see spellbreakers fullcounter cd simply increased. This alone would make him more punishable

[arazoth.7290]

34 minutes ago, Myror.7521 said:

@arazoth.7290 yes the Problem will be you at least one warr. You eather need to kill one weapon or hard nerf the e-specs mechanic..... as said i personaly would prefer to see spellbreakers fullcounter cd simply increased. This alone would make him more punishable

FC helps spb a lot yea, that would be already a good sustain nerf, less carefree useage of it

[Flowki.7194]

4 hours ago, arazoth.7290 said:

spellbreakers, untamed, druids need some good sustain nerfs, the last 2 even more. When someoen can survive without dodging my sunless relic with sword 4 + 5 attack, elemental blast + burst of strength, switching to assassin stance and combo wombo from there. And that's without relying on these 5 sec immunity of warrior, ranger is just worse. People complain about vindi, but get a vindi locked into that, I don't have to swap assassin stance then if he is caught in the same way trapped right timing

For me the proof is always in the representation. For every 1 good vindi I see in game (p1+), I see around 5 SPB, and maybe 3 druid/untamed. In terms of actual dps/roamers, I probably see 8 WB/reaper per vindi. The spec representations show the realistic meta imo.. which is never the same as the supposed top level meta, but still, the vindi hate goes on 😜 

Edited July 9 by Flowki.7194

[Flowki.7194]

4 hours ago, Myror.7521 said:

i personaly would prefer to see spellbreakers fullcounter cd simply increased.

Yeah that may be what is carrying them, it mightaswell be called "autocounter", Ive watched so many plat players who are good at dueling, activate FC 90% of the time, that I know it clearly is not just a case of "stow weapon". Personally I would be fine with the CD as is, if it required more damage done before it activates (so timing it for a big hitter). If the CD is increased, this just reduces warrior sustain, and does nothing with the skill indexing of FC, it will still be "autocounter", just less of the time. I am all for rewarding a warrior for a well timed FC, but it needs to be well timed, not just procing becuase the wind is blowing.

Edited July 9 by Flowki.7194

[shion.2084]

On 7/7/2024 at 11:28 AM, Flowki.7194 said:

It is how the game is now, if you don't have block/unblockable spam, then expect to be on the back foot vs half the specs in use, till they have burned there cycle. The only real outlier who is getting by is vindi with its "sky evades", which is no doubt going to be nerfed out of meta soon, as to not upset the natural order of block/cc spam.

 

WB can jump in and unleash its burst while covered with aeg/block, which offers no real counter pressure, and then it can renew out, with more blocks stab to cover the escape or attack on.

DH spews out blocks while spamming traps, which ironically hard lean on unblockables, again, another spec that you have to dance around for 15 seconds mimimum, even if they suck.

Virt, well, its virt. How a spec can have that much defense, and still do decent damage is pretty hilarious.

Condi zerker, that spec essentially follows a pve rotation, and one of the only times you really have a window to attack, is when he is tryin to land skull, which is the time you least of all want to be trading blows.. absolute degen spec. Thankfully not seing much of this anymore, thankfully.

SPB, hard carrid by FC, as if it isnt tanky/mobile enough, especially for its damage output. Worse than virt.

 

Ontop of block spam-immune, youre facing thieves who can't be pinned down, stab countering daze spam from mace rangers, or long kitten CC chains from double life reapers, should you dare to step near any group fight withought perma stab/block spam

 

It would be intersting to see the duration stats from an average current sPVP match, in terms of the overall uptime in "can't attack that player right now".. it is a very uninteractive meta from a trading damage point of view.

I can tell from this list of the most egregious offenders that they are clearly going to nerf scrapper again 🙂

[Myror.7521]

@Flowki.7194 well let it proc with dmg a scaling would make it instantly useless. Why? Cause of CCs doesn't do dmg anymore..... some blind skills also do no dmg anymore..... AoE fields do dmg but  they will let it proc after like idk 5 Seconds cause you need to get a specific dmg number for it to proc. You could even then outplay it even by hit into it once and then weapon stow after that rework ....    In small words more than big no to this one.

Also why would you an allready reactive to use skill make even more complex to use while there are other classes that can use their e-spec abilitys just whenever they want to..... 

 

The Problem is also not full counter on it self. Its the fact that you can use it that often cause of its low cooldown. And basicly skill Chain it like an ele with other self defence skills for example you can Chain füll counter/endurepain/fullcounter/Sword 4/ fullcounter/staff5/fullcounter/defiant stance/fullcounter and so on

 

Edited July 10 by Myror.7521