Why are the devs so averse to adding legendary accessories to WvW (or PvP)?

[Falseprophet.1502]

With the latest patch adding seventeen recolored variants of Hero weapons for the sake of incentivizing WvW players for rewards, the devs are continually digging themselves in a deeper hole with WvW rewards. While this won't solve any problems with those who have thousands and thousands of tickets, legendary accessories still give them an incentive to work towards something that will increase playability, allow players an additional method to get legendary accessories outside of living story, boost WvW population numbers, and make it easier to access other modes. 

We are continually seeing other methods of legendary acquisition in PvE through a second legendary armor set and upcoming legendary backpack in Janthir, however these competitive modes still get neglected.

Edited July 25 by Falseprophet.1502
edited for correctness of variant vs recolor

[Sheff.4851]

I got this wrong too when I did the video on it, but they are actually model variants, not just recolors. I only noticed myself in the editing room, since I couldn't find anything high-res and they do look pretty similar.

More to the point -- PvE players have a similar frustration with their legendary ring because Coalescence is unique, so if you want double Legendary rings you have to WvW. Given the rationale that the devs have given for including both a Gift of Battle and a Gift of Exploration, I'd imagine the argument boils down to "If a player wants to be full legendary, they need to engage with multiple different elements of the game mode, including both WvW and PvE", and that's why we haven't seen legendary WvW weapons, a legendary WvW amulet, or legendary WvW accessories. But that's just speculation on my part.

[gerberlyfe.9736]

Aurora and Vision keep LWS3+4 maps populated. Keep them the only legendary accessories. It's a wonderful journey to get them.

[Mangoyami.2418]

There's nothing wrong with the wvw legendary armor? you get it by playing? you get the rings by playing? you get the backpack by playing?
Pve gets a new acquisition because the only other pve method was raids which not all people can get into or want to get into - but it is the shiniest

[Falseprophet.1502]

41 minutes ago, Sheff.4851 said:

I got this wrong too when I did the video on it, but they are actually model variants, not just recolors. I only noticed myself in the editing room, since I couldn't find anything high-res and they do look pretty similar.

More to the point -- PvE players have a similar frustration with their legendary ring because Coalescence is unique, so if you want double Legendary rings you have to WvW. Given the rationale that the devs have given for including both a Gift of Battle and a Gift of Exploration, I'd imagine the argument boils down to "If a player wants to be full legendary, they need to engage with multiple different elements of the game mode, including both WvW and PvE", and that's why we haven't seen legendary WvW weapons, a legendary WvW amulet, or legendary WvW accessories. But that's just speculation on my part.

Fair point versus recolor or variant but I think whatever they are -- at the end of the day, it is tangential. The devs did mention this was to help introduce WvWers to the mode, but there are so many easy ways to get ascended in WvW and now through the Wizard's Vault. This is something WvWers really did not need. To your latter point, you've interviewed devs; I don't think this has been an argument they've ever made. I could be wrong as I have only have heard or seen the 'play-your-way' philosophy pushed by devs since 2012.

I only briefly skimmed through your interview video and I am glad you asked the question about alternate methods to legendary trinkets and I believe Roy commented "if there is a gap we see, we will consider." This is obviously a gap. I'm also not against implementing a PvE ring. Shoot, I'm not even opposed to them just copying the same Aurora/Vision effects and slapping them on the PvP/WvW variants for the sake of development resources. The same view would be for rings in PvE. 

I am not sure legendary weapons fit the argument either for comp modes. PvP has given out Legendary Choice boxes prior to the introduction of swiss tournaments. If you're mostly playing PvP and not much of anything else, you're making a decent amount of gold to just simply buy them off the trading post for the functionality/skin. The case could probably be made for WvWers, too. 

 

12 minutes ago, gerberlyfe.9736 said:

Aurora and Vision keep LWS3+4 maps populated. Keep them the only legendary accessories. It's a wonderful journey to get them.

This really isn't a good argument. Not conducive to the topic. These will still stay populated through sales and return events.

[Falseprophet.1502]

9 minutes ago, Mangoyami.2418 said:

There's nothing wrong with the wvw legendary armor? you get it by playing? you get the rings by playing? you get the backpack by playing?
Pve gets a new acquisition because the only other pve method was raids which not all people can get into or want to get into - but it is the shiniest

No one said that there is anything wrong with WvW Legendary armor. The whole thread is asking for alternative methods to something we only have one method of obtaining while pointing out legendary armor and backpacks has four methods of obtaining, rings two, neck pieces two, et cetera. 

[Mangoyami.2418]

If you want it you do it tbh..
Pver still has suffer through wvw for their gob. where is alternative method for the GoB?

[Falseprophet.1502]

Just now, Mangoyami.2418 said:

If you want it you do it tbh..
Pver still has suffer through wvw for their gob. where is alternative method for the GoB?

I'm all for alternative methods for a gift of battle, however, you can literally afk farm participation for these. Reward tracks were recently sped up to complete faster. 

[Sheff.4851]

1 minute ago, Mangoyami.2418 said:

If you want it you do it tbh..
Pver still has suffer through wvw for their gob. where is alternative method for the GoB?

It's one of the biggest PvE complaints, and alternative methods and for earning a Gift of Battle are very frequently requested. Just not in this subforum.

[Arheundel.6451]

39 minutes ago, Mangoyami.2418 said:

If you want it you do it tbh..
Pver still has suffer through wvw for their gob. where is alternative method for the GoB?

You can get that gift in a single day doing absolutely nothing almost...How is that comparable to legendary earrings?

[devastoscz.9851]

3 hours ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

You can get that gift in a single day doing absolutely nothing almost...How is that comparable to legendary earrings?

"A single day" per GoB. To full kit, 6 armor pieces, 6 trinkets.  Add another 12 pieces to complete all weight classes. Weapons are a separate issue because of GoE requirements, they are not comparable. I get why PVE players find it inconvenient, but I think it's crucial to WvW as a game mode to have the influx of players looking to get it, because some of them like the mode and become valuable members of the community.

That said, I would love to see a way to get all the trinkets in WvW, but I really doubt that's gonna happen. Unlike WvW, which needs a "requirement" for the general population to have an entry point to it, some semblance PVE is something pretty much every player in the game has done even if its just to level up.  You either like it or you don't.

Earrings and pendant (or whatever its called) are the only things missing for me to be 100% kitted out in legendary gear. Because I can't bring myself to suffer through the collections for them. Maybe some sort of trade off can be made down the line, kinda like they did legendary starter kits with the daily currency. Or have a trade-in shop, so many WvW currencies for the equivalent of a precursor of the earrings/pendant. So you STILL have to do SOME of the PVE collection, just not the whole kitten grind.

[Sheff.4851]

2 minutes ago, devastoscz.9851 said:

"A single day" per GoB. To full kit, 6 armor pieces, 6 trinkets.  Add another 12 pieces to complete all weight classes. Weapons are a separate issue because of GoE requirements, they are not comparable. I get why PVE players find it inconvenient, but I think it's crucial to WvW as a game mode to have the influx of players looking to get it, because some of them like the mode and become valuable members of the community.

That said, I would love to see a way to get all the trinkets in WvW, but I really doubt that's gonna happen. Unlike WvW, which needs a "requirement" for the general population to have an entry point to it, some semblance PVE is something pretty much every player in the game has done even if its just to level up.  You either like it or you don't.

Earrings and pendant (or whatever its called) are the only things missing for me to be 100% kitted out in legendary gear. Because I can't bring myself to suffer through the collections for them. Maybe some sort of trade off can be made down the line, kinda like they did legendary starter kits with the daily currency. Or have a trade-in shop, so many WvW currencies for the equivalent of a precursor of the earrings/pendant. So you STILL have to do SOME of the PVE collection, just not the whole kitten grind.

You can already do this for Aurora and Vision, the accessories. Completing the LWS3/LWS4 reward track in WvW counts as completing the PvE meta-achievement. You still have to do some of the items on the checklist, and there's some pretty nasty grinds in there (like unlocking Skyscale, or finishing Henge), but you get to skip a lot of the achievement unlock grind, doing the story mode achievements and fetch quests, etc.

[devastoscz.9851]

18 minutes ago, Sheff.4851 said:

You can already do this for Aurora and Vision, the accessories. Completing the LWS3/LWS4 reward track in WvW counts as completing the PvE meta-achievement. You still have to do some of the items on the checklist, and there's some pretty nasty grinds in there (like unlocking Skyscale, or finishing Henge), but you get to skip a lot of the achievement unlock grind, doing the story mode achievements and fetch quests, etc.

You're shitting me. I didn't know that. I will have to check up on that, maybe I can get those after all! Thank you!

[Sheff.4851]

3 minutes ago, devastoscz.9851 said:

You're shitting me. I didn't know that. I will have to check up on that, maybe I can get those after all! Thank you!

The "unlock" for those portions of the trinkets only looks at whether you've unlocked the skin you get from the box, and the skins you get from first-time completion of the reward tracks is the same as the skin you get from doing the PvE meta-achievement, so yeah. That specific part you can do entirely within WvW, and for some S3/S4 maps (looking at you, Bitterfrost and Dragonfall) the WvW route is much faster.

[Hesione.9412]

26 minutes ago, devastoscz.9851 said:

"A single day" per GoB. To full kit, 6 armor pieces, 6 trinkets.  Add another 12 pieces to complete all weight classes. Weapons are a separate issue because of GoE requirements, they are not comparable. I get why PVE players find it inconvenient, but I think it's crucial to WvW as a game mode to have the influx of players looking to get it, because some of them like the mode and become valuable members of the community.

That said, I would love to see a way to get all the trinkets in WvW, but I really doubt that's gonna happen. Unlike WvW, which needs a "requirement" for the general population to have an entry point to it, some semblance PVE is something pretty much every player in the game has done even if its just to level up.  You either like it or you don't.

Earrings and pendant (or whatever its called) are the only things missing for me to be 100% kitted out in legendary gear. Because I can't bring myself to suffer through the collections for them. Maybe some sort of trade off can be made down the line, kinda like they did legendary starter kits with the daily currency. Or have a trade-in shop, so many WvW currencies for the equivalent of a precursor of the earrings/pendant. So you STILL have to do SOME of the PVE collection, just not the whole kitten grind.

A day is simply not true now, unless you run with a blob. For those of us with hardly anyone on at our time, the ability to flip things to retain participation is low. Try to do much and you get run over. People who enjoy ganking, with gank builds, will run you over, especially as many of them now seem to run in pairs. Why would anyone coming in to do GoB stay, unless they're on a very active shard.

Which is why I say: get GoB out of WvW.

[devastoscz.9851]

4 minutes ago, Hesione.9412 said:

A day is simply not true now, unless you run with a blob. For those of us with hardly anyone on at our time, the ability to flip things to retain participation is low. Try to do much and you get run over. People who enjoy ganking, with gank builds, will run you over, especially as many of them now seem to run in pairs. Why would anyone coming in to do GoB stay, unless they're on a very active shard.

Which is why I say: get GoB out of WvW.

That's why I put it in quotes, referencing the person I quoted in the first place. I know it takes longer for most people. Which is why I understand why it's annoying to them, especially if they do what you describe: hopping into a team oriented competitive game mode completely alone.

But like I said the GoB requirement is the entry point for a massive amount of people into the game mode, some of which end up staying. Without it, you cut out the lifeline of new players and might as well separate WvW from the rest of the game and make it a standalone mode.

[Hesione.9412]

3 minutes ago, devastoscz.9851 said:

That's why I put it in quotes, referencing the person I quoted in the first place. I know it takes longer for most people. Which is why I understand why it's annoying to them, especially if they do what you describe: hopping into a team oriented competitive game mode completely alone.

But like I said the GoB requirement is the entry point for a massive amount of people into the game mode, some of which end up staying. Without it, you cut out the lifeline of new players and might as well separate WvW from the rest of the game and make it a standalone mode.

Anet already decided to cut the lifeline by making WvW blob v. blob. They need to just make it official.

[Falseprophet.1502]

2 hours ago, devastoscz.9851 said:

. Maybe some sort of trade off can be made down the line, kinda like they did legendary starter kits with the daily currency. Or have a trade-in shop, so many WvW currencies for the equivalent of a precursor of the earrings/pendant. So you STILL have to do SOME of the PVE collection, just not the whole kitten grind.

I like this idea.

 

Also, a solve for the Gift of Battle is to introduce reward tracks in PvE where you earn progress based off events.

[devastoscz.9851]

2 hours ago, Hesione.9412 said:

Anet already decided to cut the lifeline by making WvW blob v. blob. They need to just make it official.

Whether the blob is there or not, the GoB is still necessary to craft legendaries, thus funneling PVE players into WvW, so your comment doesn't really make a lot of sense within the context of this discussion. I think that's an entirely separate issue.

[Mistwraithe.3106]

8 hours ago, gerberlyfe.9736 said:

Aurora and Vision keep LWS3+4 maps populated. Keep them the only legendary accessories. It's a wonderful journey to get them.

I know this got confused responses and that's expected, this is after all the WvW forum.

But I think it's a very important point. One of the great things about PvE GW2 is that there are players scattered across all zones which is completely unlike most MMOs. This is encouraged by many things, including items like Aurora and Vision which need you to spend time on certain maps. I really value this.

I get the problem for WvW players who detest PvE (I happen to like all modes, even a small amount of PvP), I just think Anet would need to be very careful if they made any changes here. I think they would need to make a WvW accessory very expensive, sufficiently expensive and hard to get that only people who are very into WvW would be able to afford it and PvE players would keep doing Aurora and Vision instead. Or just leave it as is and not create it.

[Sheff.4851]

Confused, for anyone unfamiliar, is the thumbs down button of the forums.

[disForm.2837]

8 hours ago, Mistwraithe.3106 said:

I know this got confused responses and that's expected, this is after all the WvW forum.

But I think it's a very important point. One of the great things about PvE GW2 is that there are players scattered across all zones which is completely unlike most MMOs. This is encouraged by many things, including items like Aurora and Vision which need you to spend time on certain maps. I really value this.

I get the problem for WvW players who detest PvE (I happen to like all modes, even a small amount of PvP), I just think Anet would need to be very careful if they made any changes here. I think they would need to make a WvW accessory very expensive, sufficiently expensive and hard to get that only people who are very into WvW would be able to afford it and PvE players would keep doing Aurora and Vision instead. Or just leave it as is and not create it.

That's what Anet did with the legendary backpack. The PvE version is much easier and faster to get than WvW's. It takes minimum 7 weeks of maximum participation to get it. Only fashionistas and WvW mains get Warbringer. 

[Reztek.7805]

27 minutes ago, disForm.2837 said:

That's what Anet did with the legendary backpack. The PvE version is much easier and faster to get than WvW's. It takes minimum 7 weeks of maximum participation to get it. Only fashionistas and WvW mains get Warbringer. 

That's what Anet did with every legendary item in wvw. The armor is much slower too. And in general rewards are lower, so it takes more time to get the stuff for weapons.

But there are still people bringing up GoB without being ashamed. 😄

16 hours ago, Mangoyami.2418 said:

If you want it you do it tbh..
Pver still has suffer through wvw for their gob. where is alternative method for the GoB?

It's right next to the alternative method for GoE. Which btw. is nowhere near comparable.

[devastoscz.9851]

17 hours ago, Mistwraithe.3106 said:

I know this got confused responses and that's expected, this is after all the WvW forum.

But I think it's a very important point. One of the great things about PvE GW2 is that there are players scattered across all zones which is completely unlike most MMOs. This is encouraged by many things, including items like Aurora and Vision which need you to spend time on certain maps. I really value this.

I get the problem for WvW players who detest PvE (I happen to like all modes, even a small amount of PvP), I just think Anet would need to be very careful if they made any changes here. I think they would need to make a WvW accessory very expensive, sufficiently expensive and hard to get that only people who are very into WvW would be able to afford it and PvE players would keep doing Aurora and Vision instead. Or just leave it as is and not create it.

I entirely agree, it should be a disproportionate trade, to encourage the general community to do it the 'normal' way. Same thing goes if they ever do GoB-GoE trade offs, it NEEDS to be considerably disproportionate to get it in the game mode it's not originally from.

But there's people like me, I'm sitting on 30k tickets, I could make another 3 full sets of legendary armor and still have left over. Yet I didn't touch the Return To stuff for the leggy amulet cause I have ZERO interest in PVE. 'its basically a free legendary', yeah well my brain will rot if I attempt to do that.

Edited July 26 by devastoscz.9851
grammar