Mindwhip.8057 Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 Please remove or change the ability that ALL Engineers have to activate their Invulnerable potion and stomp a down-state player dead. There is no counter-play to this functionality. 2 1 2 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawdler.8521 Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 There is one counterplay: dont die to an engineer. 1 3 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CafPow.1542 Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 Others have also possibilities to stomp without a real conter. Mistform of ele, f4 of a virtuoso etc. why are those okay? 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leaa.2943 Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 I mistform stomp more often then not to secure kills when i run with my smaller group. That is part of the game play and so many more then just engineer can do that as well. Thief can even stomp you in stealth. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sev.2458 Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 There is some counterplay against invuln stomps in group play. If there's group play stealthing the downed person or moving them (e.g. Scourge, Ranger) or god forbid, semi co-ordinated ressing. If it's a 1v1 and they're invuln stomping you there isn't anything you can do about it sure, but neither can you do anything against a blind field, projectile reflect on some classes, stability, aegis instances, shields e.g. focus 5 on guard etc 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawdler.8521 Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Sev.2458 said: moving them (e.g. Scourge, Ranger) Or as happens in 90% of "move" cases, one of your teammates "move" him out of stomp range. Edited July 26 by Dawdler.8521 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sev.2458 Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 2 minutes ago, Dawdler.8521 said: Or as happens in 90% of "move" cases, one of your teammates "move" him out of stomp range. Aye, that's what I'm saying, I could've put it better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mangoyami.2418 Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 11 minutes ago, CafPow.1542 said: f4 of a virtuoso etc. F4 on any mesmer spec. I've also managed to pull of F3's on guardians and some other classes that deny their bubble or hammer Anything with good timing and a single stack of stab can also "ez finish" depending on players in the fight 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawdler.8521 Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 1 minute ago, Sev.2458 said: Aye, that's what I'm saying, I could've put it better. Nah you're correct. I'm talking about eles, guards, other engineers etc anything with AoE knockback on your own team when you invouln stomp... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheff.4851 Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 5 minutes ago, Dawdler.8521 said: Nah you're correct. I'm talking about eles, guards, other engineers etc anything with AoE knockback on your own team when you invouln stomp... I thought that only a "launch" effect will move downs, and that they are immune to basic knockback, pull, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sev.2458 Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 6 minutes ago, Dawdler.8521 said: I'm talking about eles, guards, other engineers etc anything with AoE knockback on your own team when you invouln stomp... Oooh yeah, never gets old haha. /s 2 minutes ago, Sheff.4851 said: I thought that only a "launch" effect will move downs, and that they are immune to basic knockback, pull, etc. You're right yeah and the classes Dawdler mentioned do have launches for example: Offhand dagger air 5 on ele Guardian hammer 4 Engi rifle 4 and hipthrustmachinesupreme/personal battering ram Holosmith technically has a launch on 5 but it's only vertical There's more (e.g. deadeye elite) but those are the ones mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cryorion.9532 Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 (edited) 41 minutes ago, CafPow.1542 said: Others have also possibilities to stomp without a real conter. Mistform of ele, f4 of a virtuoso etc. why are those okay? Obvious solution is to nerf all such interactions. It is justified and reasonable. It should never exist in the first place. You know what would be even better solution? Change all these complete invulnerabilites to 100% direct damage reduction, like Endure Pain. That would be fair, deserved and best solution for competetive modes. Edited July 26 by cryorion.9532 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindwhip.8057 Posted July 26 Author Share Posted July 26 (edited) I don't think 100% direct damage reduction is the solution either. You or a team should still be able to reduce the attacker to down-state too, before they get the stomp off, just as Fearing them away should work, even without the enemy player taking any damage. An example I think is still reasonable for an attacker, while stomping, is applying Stability before a stomp. As it's a boon, it can be stripped, converted, etc. to allow counter-play by your team. Invulnerability has no place in this part of the game. Edited July 26 by Mindwhip.8057 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zyreva.1078 Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 (edited) Easy fix - just remove downstate and engi can't invuln stomp you anymore. No srsly, there is already plenty of counterplay to any sort of "safe" stomping in grp play, including invuln stomp. Just pressing F on the down is often enough, and requires zero build/cd investment. If anything, players need more ways of finishing someone off. Edited July 26 by Zyreva.1078 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CafPow.1542 Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 (edited) 1 hour ago, Mangoyami.2418 said: F4 on any mesmer spec. I've also managed to pull of F3's on guardians and some other classes that deny their bubble or hammer Anything with good timing and a single stack of stab can also "ez finish" depending on players in the fight Ah okay, i wasn‘t sure about the other mesmers. See. i mean 1 stab-stack only helps against the downed player that usually has the 2 skill to interrupt. (Except eles, they have the mist to cheese stomps and the only true counter against invulns so far) but to be fair, the issue is more in group play where other enemies try to stop your stomp in order to ress their fren right? and for that i repeat my question towards op: why is the engi one the only one that is „an issue“? This thread feels more like you got bonked by an engi and now the ego got hurt a bit. Edited July 26 by CafPow.1542 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mangoyami.2418 Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 @Mindwhip.8057 here's the secret to getting all these skills nerfed: make it a threat to boonblobs https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Deathless_Courage (used to be a 100% invul trait) Make shrink potion a threat by playing overheat holo, running into blobs when you overheat, doing the big bomba and running out Flame expulsion nuke with mistform etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindwhip.8057 Posted July 26 Author Share Posted July 26 25 minutes ago, Zyreva.1078 said: Easy fix - just remove downstate and engi can't invuln stomp you anymore. No srsly, there is already plenty of counterplay to any sort of "safe" stomping in grp play, including invuln stomp. Just pressing F on the down is often enough, and requires zero build/cd investment. If anything, players need more ways of finishing someone off. Removing down-state is viable, but don't you appreciate the counter-play to get your team member back on his/her feet to continue the battle? I would just like the stomp not to be automatic and without hazard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindwhip.8057 Posted July 26 Author Share Posted July 26 19 minutes ago, CafPow.1542 said: Ah okay, i wasn‘t sure about the other mesmers. See. i mean 1 stab-stack only helps against the downed player that usually has the 2 skill to interrupt. (Except eles, they have the mist to cheese stomps and the only true counter against invulns so far) but to be fair, the issue is more in group play where other enemies try to stop your stomp in order to ress their fren right? and for that i repeat my question towards op: why is the engi one the only one that is „an issue“? This thread feels more like you got bonked by an engi and now the ego got hurt a bit. I was using an Engineer's potion as an example. Quite frankly, I didn't think about some of those other Invuln stomps. They are all bad game-play and should not be allowed in stomping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenesisII.1540 Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 I don't really have a problem with this, the stomper usually has to use a defensive skill in order to secure the stomp. And you can be ressed faster than a stomp can be pulled off most times. If it's any consolation I don't think invul skills should exist either, but that's a different topic. Not to mention I think all down state skills should be the same to all classes. Also rally is 1:1, so F res up should be 1:1 as well. 🤷♂️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindwhip.8057 Posted July 26 Author Share Posted July 26 11 minutes ago, Mangoyami.2418 said: @Mindwhip.8057 here's the secret to getting all these skills nerfed: make it a threat to boonblobs https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Deathless_Courage (used to be a 100% invul trait) Make shrink potion a threat by playing overheat holo, running into blobs when you overheat, doing the big bomba and running out Flame expulsion nuke with mistform etc Not sure why you feel a 'stomper' should benefit from some defensive buff that he didn't actively apply reducing damage like that, but that is better than purely ignoring ALL attacks against him, I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CafPow.1542 Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Mindwhip.8057 said: I was using an Engineer's potion as an example. Quite frankly, I didn't think about some of those other Invuln stomps. They are all bad game-play and should not be allowed in stomping. Okay that’s fair then. It is consistent. i personally like it, how i like the downstate. Downstate is kinda a counter of „immediately being killed“ (and i mostly don’t understand how people still fail to cope with it’s existence.) but the invulns / port / stealth stomps give the possibility of countering that especially in outnumbered situations so that you eventually turn them. i like it. but you don’t and i can accept that. Edited July 26 by CafPow.1542 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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