Anet, this spear "mechanic" change ain't it

[feeper.5287]

Not sure how other ppl feel so maybe I'm in the minority here, but changing the "mechanic" of spear to be your skills do more damage to the first target hit instead of proximity just isn't it. Other classes have entire buffs/mechanics that change how the skills function and in some cases transform the skill into something else and we just get "we hit things hard." I feel like Anet keeps trying to put warrior in the "easy and simple" camp when that isn't what players even want. Not every elite spec/weapon/etc. has to be super complex but it would be nice if we got the same treatment and love other classes get. Staff was a great addition and Anet really listened to our feedback so I was hopeful they would do something interesting with spear and instead we get basically nothing changed. No cool fantasy, no cool mechanic, nothing. Just hit thing with pointy stick. 

I heard in PvP spear was apparently quite good and maybe this change is big pog for that game mode? It just feels like we're getting shafted once again (no pun intended). I saw someone suggest in the original spear feedback post that since we are supposed to be "masters of weapons" maybe we get melee and ranged versions of skills? Not sure if that would entirely work from a pure gameplay viewpoint but the concept was cool imo. An idea I had was since Anet is stuck on the whole "warrior throws spear super hard" thing what if we create tremors/impacts in the ground when we use certain skills that then make other skills do more dmg/cc/condi's/etc.? Just a few ideas that I personally think are more interesting and have more roleplay then "the first target takes more dmg."

Curious if other ppl feel the same way! And if you really liked spear then more power to you! Don't let me rain on your parade 🙂

[TexZero.7910]

10 minutes ago, feeper.5287 said:

I heard in PvP spear was apparently quite good

I really want to know who started spreading this lie.
Spear was absolute garbage in all competitive modes and all of it's burst could be avoided by literally walking out.
How a weapon could have less damage than rifle and worse tracking than old rush is not only comical but absurd to then be given the "good" in any game mode praise.

[Katary.7096]

Looking at the spear in a vacuum I'd say the new "mechanic" is going to be an improvement over the original. (Not a difficult feat to accomplish.) But in the context of Warrior's entire arsenal the rifle seems to fit the role of ranged power dps weapon with a focus on single targets better.

[feeper.5287]

1 hour ago, TexZero.7910 said:

I really want to know who started spreading this lie.
Spear was absolute garbage in all competitive modes and all of it's burst could be avoided by literally walking out.
How a weapon could have less damage than rifle and worse tracking than old rush is not only comical but absurd to then be given the "good" in any game mode praise.

😮 hmmm that is unfortunate to hear. Hopefully the changes make it better in PvP

[Arewn.2368]

The mechanic is an improvement, so at least we'll have something functional. But it is boring.

There's nothing really there to interact with. It basically just means anything but the primary target takes splash damage. Which in many games you would just view as the basic way AoE skills work.

And I still think a ranged, two-handed, power weapon is fundamentally the wrong direction for warrior's spear.

Either make it melee condi weapon, or make it a one-hander.

This is still just rifle with a slightly different skill load out.

[Widebody.5071]

It seems that warrior with any type of decent ranged weapon, CC skills and fluidity is a no no. All though we hear all the time that the warrior class is a simple, beginning class with aspirations of greatness coming from the dweeps that main it. I can't think of any other class that receive the ridicule and hate that warrior receives whenever it provided a decent update.

Is it the vocal minority putting warrior in a proxy role of something they're failing at or can't do irl?

Edited August 7 by Widebody.5071

[Myror.7521]

@TexZero.7910 Well it was totaly good when you knowed how to use it right ^^

[TexZero.7910]

2 minutes ago, Myror.7521 said:

@TexZero.7910 Well it was totaly good when you knowed how to use it right ^^

Yeah, using it correctly is just not equiping a garbage weapon.

[Myror.7521]

@TexZero.7910 i mean If you don't know how to use its mechanics then yes it is garbage in ur eyes xd

[TexZero.7910]

3 minutes ago, Myror.7521 said:

@TexZero.7910 i mean If you don't know how to use its mechanics then yes it is garbage in ur eyes xd

Dawg put up or shut up.
The weapon had less damage than rifle, less defensive utility than staff and less reliable tracking than greatsword.
If you somehow found a use for such a thing then by all means enlighten us.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

5 minutes ago, TexZero.7910 said:

Dawg put up or shut up.
The weapon had less damage than rifle, less defensive utility than staff and less reliable tracking than greatsword.
If you somehow found a use for such a thing then by all means enlighten us.

Hi can I take a crack at it

The weapon is good for pvp.

Wild throw obliterates multiblocks and aegis, which is one of the main drawbacks of warrior interaction. It can be casted while running away and any single hit activates traits. It also pierces, so you can hit multiple people in line of fire. 

Core burst activates burst traits always because it is a ground target. It'll stack properly with point defense spellbreakers.

Ranged poke is good, and now that we don't have to hug enemies for damage boost it's even better. It may do less damage than rifle burst, but its more flexible and doesn't gatekeep traits on burst skills that don't hit anything slightly smarter than broccoli.

It works.  It's not the most elegant solution, but it's solid for competitive. 

Edited August 7 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Myror.7521]

@TexZero.7910 the technic was simply hit the 5th skill into 3 skill into 4 skill Comb. (5th skill at first cause it will proc after some secs) This alone did around 10k dmg ^^. But it was realy hard to hit it soooo yea. 

 

Also fact they made the 5th skill better tracking in next patch with the 3 skill will get a reset when u dodge something with it.

And the zerker build was all around well to be fair a bug abuse (Greatsword traitline in strength granted you stacks of might) so the f1 alone did around 10-15k on its own^^

Edited August 7 by Myror.7521

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

Quote

 we just get "we hit things hard

Granted I sympathize with this a lot. I still feel like they're phoning it in mechanic wise, they could have extrapolated their cooldown reduction behavior or something more interesting to the kit. I'm most definitely not blind to how sauceless the approach feels for warrior, especially alongside every other class that got something intricate to play with. 

[TexZero.7910]

5 minutes ago, Myror.7521 said:

@TexZero.7910 the technic was simply hit the 5th skill into 3 skill into 4 skill Comb. (5th skill at first cause it will proc after some secs) This alone did around 10k dmg ^^. But it was realy hard to hit it soooo yea. 

 

Also fact they made it better tracking in next patch with the 3 skill will get a reset when u dodge something with it 

Yeah sorry. I'm not impressed by 10k damage that's so easily avoided.
Not only am i not impressed by that other classes can turn around on that 10k and drop 30k on you faster, more reliably, whilst being untargetable.

[Myror.7521]

@TexZero.7910then you should sweap the class cause warr was never doing above 6k hits .... the only time where you doing it is when you playing full glass canon stuff xD....   Well or PvE xd

[TexZero.7910]

14 minutes ago, Myror.7521 said:

@TexZero.7910then you should sweap the class cause warr was never doing above 6k hits .... the only time where you doing it is when you playing full glass canon stuff xD....   Well or PvE xd

You need to go read that again.
You're happy warrior can tickle people. I'm not.
Other classes get to play safer and deal more damage. This is not balance. The fact that you find this acceptable is why we will never see eye to eye.

[feeper.5287]

43 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

 I'm most definitely not blind to how sauceless the approach feels for warrior

We need some spicy grandma's homemade sauce

[feeper.5287]

1 hour ago, Widebody.5071 said:

It seems that warrior with any type of decent ranged weapon, CC skills and fluidity is a no no. All though we hear all the time that the warrior class is a simple, beginning class with aspirations of greatness coming from the dweeps that main it. I can't think of any other class that receive the ridicule and hate that warrior receives whenever it provided a decent update.

Is it the vocal minority putting warrior in a proxy role of something they're failing at or can't do irl?

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make here. Also saying that warrior players ridicule their own class more than other players who main other classes is not true at all xD you should talk to some ele mains. I don't see why it's suddenly whining to bring up how Anet has repeatedly not given warrior the same attention as other classes (with the exception of staff). If no other classes got a special gimmick/mechanic with their weapon this would be a different story but that isn't the world we live in. Every class got something except for warrior and the devs reasoning (which they have stated in interviews) is that warrior is the "simple" and "not complex" class. It frustrates warrior "mains" because it shows a disconnect between the devs and the players. 

[erapago.4387]

It's rifle with splash instead of pierce.

Rifle has a cooldown mechanic and something on its dodge back skill as well.

Edited August 7 by erapago.4387

[Shagie.7612]

must be painful to be called out by the developers themselves for not being good enough to use it well in pvp lol

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

1 hour ago, feeper.5287 said:

We need some spicy grandma's homemade sauce

I just need like

A dipping cup of style pls

Doesn't have to have sparklers jammed into it like ele or guard or rev but - something- would be nice.  I'm being asked to pay for it. 

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

41 minutes ago, Shagie.7612 said:

must be painful to be called out by the developers themselves for not being good enough to use it well in pvp lol

I mean I can see where the frustration would be.  I had to run dittos against a warrior that knew what they were doing to get over how revolting it feels if you think of it like any other weapon we have had to date.

So I get thinking it's not enough initially

Not to mention @Lan Deathrider.5910 still has the point of wild throw being a hard nerf to quickness zerker (Hopefully they spot fix that), and that the weapon is two clumsy nerfs away from being junk (and we know how the community feels about eating an entire burst after spending 6 minutes evading everything then acting like there was nothing they could do in a wild bid to nerf things they don't play)

But yeah.  Their assessment of it is correct.  Good for pvp, '???' For pve.

Edited August 7 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Kitty.4806]

It has to be +30% to primary target minimum in PvE to ever have a chance of seeing action.

Very sad. Cast times and damage need fixed more than a small buff that'll probably be bugged and not register what's hit first properly.

[Widebody.5071]

2 hours ago, Myror.7521 said:

@TexZero.7910then you should sweap the class cause warr was never doing above 6k hits .... the only time where you doing it is when you playing full glass canon stuff xD....   Well or PvE xd

Actually that is due to some folks coming to the forums and crying a river over everything the warrior had that was good. It's undisputable that complaints in the forums led to what warrior is today, no different then what happens in other games where class adjustments are dictated by forum babble. Tracking is screwy, hits fly through your target without making contact and it seems like instead of positive power creep, warrior has a slow almost unnoticeable case of diminishing power creep.

What ever happened it took some well thought out manipulation to pull it off.

Edited August 7 by Widebody.5071

[Shagie.7612]

6 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Not to mention @Lan Deathrider.5910 still has the point of wild throw being a hard nerf to quickness zerker (Hopefully they spot fix that)

They could knock the half second off it and it'd be the exact same rotationally as Flaming Flurry which has no problems with Heat the Soul. Even WITH the extra half second it's probably fine if you treat it like sword or greatsword in the rotation where you only use it for 5s.

Almost guaranteed the 5 skill gets a pvp damage nerf if it tracks without any set up though. The power coefficient on it is nuts. Same for Wild Throw tbh, there's room between being forced to double dodge one attack so you can't stop the follow ups and trash.
Again like, getting hit by one or two ticks means immediately having to leave. That's pretty crazy for two skills that can be used while running away.

I think the biggest issue with spear and potentially being able to be a ranged pew pewer comes from the fact that, if it's good at that, Spellbreaker's gonna run away with it even more than it already is and now it's unkillable on the node while also stabbing you off it, and Warrior/PZerk needing to invest so heavily into the ability to live or do damage.
You can only get one or the other, which should be good game design, but then when you go up against a deadeye, a willbender, mesmer, etc., you're stuck doing slightly more damage than them but missing all the survivability/utility they get for "free" through traits/utilities/class skills.

If it's only a scary ranged threat on a Str/Arms Gun Flame type build, then it's not going that far towards giving warrior a different playstyle because one of the above will just graveyard farm you, but if it's tuned around Def/Disc (or maybe even Str/Disc) builds, then that same Gun Flame build instantly kills whoever it looks at with a single tick of the angry red laser beam, and that's no good either.

I don't know how they fix that in any reasonably expectable changes, tbh. Hard to find places to snipe specific changes into that won't be abusable by sidenode builds.