August 20 patch notes.

[Jobber.6348]

40 minutes ago, Buran.3796 said:

  I'm not playing Jantir Wilds at all, since as I said I don't see it offers much to Rev players (specially at PvP), but the thing is I'm now almost 20 matches since the release and I'm not seing Revs (comprehensible since the patch nerfed damage, defenses, sustain... ) but also I don't see much spears at all (with most professions, and only a single Rev wikth spear so far). I think this eveneing is a Tournament, let's see what showcases...

Most PvP players don't buy expacs at all I'd reckon. 

Unless something new that becomes so overwhelmingly strong, it's a whatever to them. Like Especs are always going to be an instant buy since they offer powercreep. Weapons can be hit or miss if all you play is PvP. Even for SOTO, most Relics and weapons fall under "it's aight" category when balanced in pvp so you see those more in WvW instead.

 

Edited August 24 by Jobber.6348

[arazoth.7290]

3 hours ago, Shagie.7612 said:

you have no defensive skills like that and you're fighting something that almost nothing in the entire game hurts in a 1v1, of course you got bodied? heck it even does decently against spellbreaker (well, pre-spear, idk about now)
that's... not exactly representative since literally everyone's in the same boat as you lol

i dunno, mallyx/kalla feelin pretty good, i have no mobility problems by and large, spear chill helps with getting away in ways that shortbow never could, even with the 600 range. if they bump it to 900 there won't be any purpose to shortbow as a weapon, not even sure there is one right now even at 600

 

3 hours ago, Buran.3796 said:

  A mix between not having any kind of block, having a very weak mobility and damage skills designed to mele facetank the piñata golem which perform poorly against foes with a functional brain.

   For example, yesterady in unranked I was trying condi Vindi with short bow, mace & axe and while did well in temafights where you can stack cc over the attacks of your partners and overwhelm the defensive tools of the enemies, once was forced to fight one vs one against a competent Harbinger it was totally onesided: He had better pressure at any range, better mobility, more burst damage and a stroger cc game supported by unblockable AoE skills, so even playing well the most I could do was just dying at slower pace...

   I'm  currently playing in ranked with power Vindi (two variants: gs + staff or three swords) with Alliance + Jalis and can do ok but obviously won't work at tournaments because has 0 pressure at range and Jalis too much mobility. And won't change since the meta is: every build has decent damage at any range, good mobility and excellent sustain. The Rev spear is a relic of the past designed to game modes in which your foes doesn't move and fight at mele, and you don't need defenses or cleanses and you can calmy cast skills to stack and cast other skills like you're placing dominoes in the geriatric. Is like going in a SUV to a race in a track full of Lotus Emira and Porsche Cayman GT4...

   Alternatively I'm also playing stunchain Spellbreaker which has some weakness vs ranged foes but man it does war crimes and becomes annoying 😄

Harbringer can be dealt with the right build. And no it isn't a build that specific is made to counter harbringer, it was more of fun side effect that it does 

[Jobber.6348]

43 minutes ago, arazoth.7290 said:

 

Harbringer can be dealt with the right build. And no it isn't a build that specific is made to counter harbringer, it was more of fun side effect that it does 

Can be dealt with doesn't excuse how overtuned it is though, but that's going off topic here. 

[arazoth.7290]

20 minutes ago, Jobber.6348 said:

Can be dealt with doesn't excuse how overtuned it is though, but that's going off topic here. 

not saying that that isn't, just wanted to put that out 😁

[Vekaiel.8493]

I really like the change to spear, feel so much better. It still is hard to land #5 reliably on a moving target but when it does you see the difference. I would consider it more a pve weapon because with that range you won't be poking zerg in wvw or be as efficient as let's say virtuoso at max range. Melee range it is a kitten good weapon at the moment

[Buran.3796]

  Just saw the MAT:  almost no Revs (saw like three, two Heralds which did nothing and a support Vindi which reached  semis to do nothing but get farmed). The patch succesfully removed Rev from tournaments (and Engies).

  Warrior is in good spot (1-2 x team and thanx to core Warrior there's a  slot for having 3 Warriors in a team if required). Not much spears: Warriors, Willbeneders and some Mesmers. Reapers with conventional weapons did well; Rangers and Eles felt quite weak. 

   But to my demise I'll probably buy the expansion, since without it I can't get the free leg spear (prec in the Wizzard Vault and already have all the materials) or the free shared inventory slot (got an extra character slot just for that) which I don't need but doesn't hurt...

 

   Edit: saw the NA final, triple Spellbreaker in Team Usa, two Spellbreakers and a condi Vindicator with spear in the winner team (but at this time is hard to say if Team Usa lost due playing worse or just traded the defeat).

   Re-Edit: I'm seing now the recast of the NA final from Grimjack; the Vindi was actually a power Vindi with 15900 HP running Alliance + Shiro and  spear & staff.

Edited August 24 by Buran.3796

[Sereath.1428]

39 minutes ago, Buran.3796 said:

 But to my demise I'll probably buy the expansion, since without it I can't get the free leg spear (prec in the Wizzard Vault and already have all the materials) or the free shared inventory slot (got an extra character slot just for that) which I don't need but doesn't hurt...

Ahaha, yeah, I logged in until today so I could reclaim the legendary kit since I want to craft the GS. Locked behind the expansion. 💀

[Buran.3796]

   ...And is done (total cost less than 27 gold coins, I lacked some ectos). I did also cheat my access to unlock the spear with WvW jade coins and to the Jantir Wilds maps through "teleport to a friend" devices:

 

 

   Now I just need to unlock the River relic  as in the ieatyoulol video to go brrrrrrrr

Edited August 24 by Buran.3796

[Shagie.7612]

It's been half a week since Janthir launched, not sure this monthly's super representative of things other than the super obvious busted ones (warrior, mostly) and a bunch of things people are trying to figure out.

The Retri/Corruption/Vindi build that won doesn't seem like it's that good, imo.

1 hour ago, Buran.3796 said:

   Re-Edit: I'm seing now the recast of the NA final from Grimjack; the Vindi was actually a power Vindi with 15900 HP running Alliance + Shiro and  spear & staff.

It was Tyrant Amulet, Retri/Corr/Vindi. Mark shared a picture of the build on the pvp discord.
Seems pretty wonky to me compared to a regular condition build but who knows.

Edited August 24 by Shagie.7612

[Jobber.6348]

1 hour ago, Shagie.7612 said:

It's been half a week since Janthir launched, not sure this monthly's super representative of things other than the super obvious busted ones (warrior, mostly) and a bunch of things people are trying to figure out.

The Retri/Corruption/Vindi build that won doesn't seem like it's that good, imo.

It was Tyrant Amulet, Retri/Corr/Vindi. Mark shared a picture of the build on the pvp discord.
Seems pretty wonky to me compared to a regular condition build but who knows.

It's probably not, no. 

More likely the Vindicator is playing a little safer from the back with Scavenger and Spear skills because Spear is probably good at keeping range better than being in the thick of it. Also since they run Staff as a defensive swap, it means they are planning for focus and have to rely on Staff for this. I don't expect this to be a regular thing unless you can convince your team in every single game to "protect the Vindicator" 

[Katary.7096]

When the mostly negative (and deserved) feedback from the spear beta was posted here my main concern was that the devs will respond by massively buffing spear to the point that it replaces either mace/axe or shortbow in existing condition revenant builds because it will simply be doing the same thing these older weapons do, but better. What I hadn't considered was the possibility that they buff the spear so much it will replace both mace/axe and shortbow. Needless to say I view this situation as a step back from what we had before.

[Vekaiel.8493]

23 minutes ago, Katary.7096 said:

When the mostly negative (and deserved) feedback from the spear beta was posted here my main concern was that the devs will respond by massively buffing spear to the point that it replaces either mace/axe or shortbow in existing condition revenant builds because it will simply be doing the same thing these older weapons do, but better. What I hadn't considered was the possibility that they buff the spear so much it will replace both mace/axe and shortbow. Needless to say I view this situation as a step back from what we had before.

I still prefer mace/axe for chasing/positioning and reliable damage (no need to aim) with minimal energy cost and shortbow If I need to be at longer range. On a standing target, yes the spear will be best in term of performance but the moment your target moves, burning and bleeding will do more. Spear is mostly torment.

Edited August 25 by Vekaiel.8493

[Buran.3796]

12 minutes ago, Katary.7096 said:

 What I hadn't considered was the possibility that they buff the spear so much it will replace both mace/axe and shortbow. Needless to say I view this situation as a step back from what we had before.

  Won't last. At the moment spear reaches stacks of over 100 torment and well over 50k dps vs the golem and relic of the Rivers provides Vindicator and Herald perma quickness + perma alacrity + perma regeneration:

 

   ...Changes are that a lot of systems in place in JW will get nerfed, and what happens after the damage is tuned down is that 1) the overall design of the spear is not that good since lacks defense and range for competitive modes and demands too much energy in PvE, and 2) the nerfs to the competitive viable build (Vindi) went hard enough to delete it from tournaments and what arised from is a new bunker meta with up to 3 Warriors x team (erase the predators ands you'll see an overflown of herbivores).

[Jobber.6348]

49 minutes ago, Katary.7096 said:

When the mostly negative (and deserved) feedback from the spear beta was posted here my main concern was that the devs will respond by massively buffing spear to the point that it replaces either mace/axe or shortbow in existing condition revenant builds because it will simply be doing the same thing these older weapons do, but better. What I hadn't considered was the possibility that they buff the spear so much it will replace both mace/axe and shortbow. Needless to say I view this situation as a step back from what we had before.

Beating shortbow, I can understand. Beating Mace, I wonder if it's because Spear is just way better designed for DPS Golems or the fact that ANET REFUSES TO BUFF CORE WEAPONS.

I mean, look at Axe. People have wanted this thing to be improved for years and all they did was "haha more Torment, removes your Slow, suck an egg" Like bro really? Why!? Why not give what players actually want and make this weapon a throw that inflicts the big conditions then a recast to teleport to your target. And for Axe 5, this thing needed to have its confusion back forever ago. WHY WAS IT EVEN REMOVED IN THE FIRST PLACE!? WHY DO YOU WANT US TO JUST ONLY APPLY TORMENT!?

I will forever and continue to advocate for Anet to take a serious look at old Revenant core weapons and buff or rework them into more general usability. 

Edited August 25 by Jobber.6348

[Buran.3796]

   Got the River relic from the WvW Jantir Wilds reward track; I'll put also the PvP reward track in the same loop so I'll get the other 5 runes really soon (maybe tomorrow since have thousands of potions stacked). I'll try it in the next days.

  I've been playing power Vindi at PvP  in pure mele and so far feels oks, but I miss the ranged pressure of the hammer. 

[arazoth.7290]

1 hour ago, Buran.3796 said:

   Got the River relic from the WvW Jantir Wilds reward track; I'll put also the PvP reward track in the same loop so I'll get the other 5 runes really soon (maybe tomorrow since have thousands of potions stacked). I'll try it in the next days.

  I've been playing power Vindi at PvP  in pure mele and so far feels oks, but I miss the ranged pressure of the hammer. 

Hammer in pvp is still fine to use, I tried it at start and still got succesfull kills with it. Besides that, I having fun with my new magic stick weapon 🙂

[Shagie.7612]

gonna sound weird to suggest a buff to spear considering the place it's at currently

but i think abyssal blitz should be a 3/4s evade just like spear swipe

that skill moves you the same distance, does a launch/knockback instead of mines that can be much more easily avoided, has essentially the same CD (because of the cooldown reduction when evading an attack), but its evade is 3/4s instead
spear swipe kinda bonkers tbh

the only other thing i'd like to suggest is allowing spear 2 to be a successful cast if it starts while in range, like how many, many other skills function, so that you can kite a little better with it

[Buran.3796]

  I've been trying the spear in OW and I'm a bit confused about how should be used...  I've been reaching burst up to 63 stacks of torment using Corruption 1,3,2 with Pact of Pain to increase conditions duration a 15%, but I'm mostly casting auto attacks and spear #5 with spear #2 to decrease the #5 cooldow, but I'm wonder if Abysal Chill would be bettersince spear #2 & #4 cast chills which would proc extra torment (but losing some duration). Which one would be better to max out damage? Also, should spear #5 be spammed or stacked up to 2 or 3 to get better performance?  Despite the higher torment numbers I'm finding the ttk quite similar to mace + axe (burns are better than torment procs) which are also easier to maneage. I barely feel Abysal Blitz having any impact and found Temporal Rift better than Abysal Blot at everything (same cooldown buth axe #5 is cheaper in energy, delivers more damage, covers a larger area and is way faster to cast...). 

[Jobber.6348]

5 hours ago, Buran.3796 said:

  I've been trying the spear in OW and I'm a bit confused about how should be used...  I've been reaching burst up to 63 stacks of torment using Corruption 1,3,2 with Pact of Pain to increase conditions duration a 15%, but I'm mostly casting auto attacks and spear #5 with spear #2 to decrease the #5 cooldow, but I'm wonder if Abysal Chill would be bettersince spear #2 & #4 cast chills which would proc extra torment (but losing some duration). Which one would be better to max out damage? Also, should spear #5 be spammed or stacked up to 2 or 3 to get better performance?  Despite the higher torment numbers I'm finding the ttk quite similar to mace + axe (burns are better than torment procs) which are also easier to maneage. I barely feel Abysal Blitz having any impact and found Temporal Rift better than Abysal Blot at everything (same cooldown buth axe #5 is cheaper in energy, delivers more damage, covers a larger area and is way faster to cast...). 

You basically camp Spear. 

You will keep Mallyx EtD on and spam spear 5 and spear 2 as much as energy will allow, using Angsyian Energy Meld specifically only in Mallyx to facilitate this. 3 stack CA Spear 5 deals like 7 stacks of Torment per hit and you can refresh it very quickly via just autos and Spear 2. Spear 3 and Spear 4 are utility skills in case you need to breakbar or gather mobs but otherwise, you won't touch them.

It's only when you run out of energy that you swap to Alliance, then you spam Scavenger Burst and Spear of Archemorus off cooldown. Still spam spear 5. Never stop spamming your 7 stack Torment nuke. This is why Abyssal Chill is not used as 100% of your Energy is being focused to not using any Chilling skills. 

As for your choice of Abyssal Chill vs Pact of Pain: If you are just DPSing trash, Abyssal Chill is gonna have more value. If you are ticking Condis on a boss or champion, Pact of Pain for sure. All this is assuming you're running an OW Cele build of course. 

Edited August 29 by Jobber.6348

[UncreativeGreen.2019]

6 hours ago, Buran.3796 said:

  I've been trying the spear in OW and I'm a bit confused about how should be used...  I've been reaching burst up to 63 stacks of torment using Corruption 1,3,2 with Pact of Pain to increase conditions duration a 15%, but I'm mostly casting auto attacks and spear #5 with spear #2 to decrease the #5 cooldow, but I'm wonder if Abysal Chill would be bettersince spear #2 & #4 cast chills which would proc extra torment (but losing some duration). Which one would be better to max out damage? Also, should spear #5 be spammed or stacked up to 2 or 3 to get better performance?  Despite the higher torment numbers I'm finding the ttk quite similar to mace + axe (burns are better than torment procs) which are also easier to maneage. I barely feel Abysal Blitz having any impact and found Temporal Rift better than Abysal Blot at everything (same cooldown buth axe #5 is cheaper in energy, delivers more damage, covers a larger area and is way faster to cast...). 

Like Jobber mentioned. 2 and 5 are the biggest priority. However with Charged Mists or Anysigan's Trust, You'll find energy spare to use 4 and 3. As far as altering the "standard" OW build, you either go Pact of Pain with Meaty Asparagus Skewer and Trapper runes or you go for Abyssal Chill with your standard 100 condi food with Tormenting runes. The Abyssal chill + tormenting route is generally only worth it for Vassals of the Empire Vindicators. For Herald and Renegade you'll find more success with Pact and Trapper. Looking at arc every now and then I saw that the Trapper had about 65% of its total damage as torment while Tormenting had about 75% of it as torment. Both had almost identical dps in the field with the Trapper variant being slightly ahead on the golem.

I went with the Tormenting rune variant though because it felt better as an all-rounder. Not everything I'm killing is a champion and it felt better to "spike" torment faster from mob to mob.

[Katary.7096]

On 8/25/2024 at 1:46 PM, Vekaiel.8493 said:

I still prefer mace/axe for chasing/positioning and reliable damage (no need to aim) with minimal energy cost and shortbow If I need to be at longer range. On a standing target, yes the spear will be best in term of performance but the moment your target moves, burning and bleeding will do more. Spear is mostly torment.

I'm pretty sure I still prefer mace/axe and shortbow based on how fun these sets feel, though I don't outright dislike spear, I just like the other weapons more. And while there certainly are situations in which the spear falls short, the majority of PvE content seems pretty well suited to it. Competitive modes are of course a different story.

On 8/25/2024 at 1:48 PM, Buran.3796 said:

  Won't last. At the moment spear reaches stacks of over 100 torment and well over 50k dps vs the golem and relic of the Rivers provides Vindicator and Herald perma quickness + perma alacrity + perma regeneration:

Yeah, I expect them to nerf the damage on spear in their next regular update. But honestly, if I can get the same level of damage output that spear provides on shortbow, what reason do I have to use spear? With spear I need to stack up Crushing Abyss to improve the effectiveness of spear #5, while the shortbow skills are always operating at their maximum potential. The spear will still need some form of payoff for investing time into building up stacks.

On 8/25/2024 at 1:48 PM, Buran.3796 said:

   ...Changes are that a lot of systems in place in JW will get nerfed, and what happens after the damage is tuned down is that 1) the overall design of the spear is not that good since lacks defense and range for competitive modes and demands too much energy in PvE, and 2) the nerfs to the competitive viable build (Vindi) went hard enough to delete it from tournaments and what arised from is a new bunker meta with up to 3 Warriors x team (erase the predators ands you'll see an overflown of herbivores).

I still think that the range of the spear skills should have been buffed and that spear #5's cost for casting it should have been the fact that it consumes ammunition instead of energy. (With how much damage it is currently doing that might seem crazy, but that was based on the spear from the beta preview.)

On 8/25/2024 at 2:13 PM, Jobber.6348 said:

Beating shortbow, I can understand. Beating Mace, I wonder if it's because Spear is just way better designed for DPS Golems or the fact that ANET REFUSES TO BUFF CORE WEAPONS.

Probably a bit of both? The last time mace #2 has been buffed was in 2020. Back in 2017 mace #3 inflicted 5 stacks of torment for 10 seconds.

On 8/25/2024 at 2:13 PM, Jobber.6348 said:

I mean, look at Axe. People have wanted this thing to be improved for years and all they did was "haha more Torment, removes your Slow, suck an egg" Like bro really? Why!? Why not give what players actually want and make this weapon a throw that inflicts the big conditions then a recast to teleport to your target. And for Axe 5, this thing needed to have its confusion back forever ago. WHY WAS IT EVEN REMOVED IN THE FIRST PLACE!? WHY DO YOU WANT US TO JUST ONLY APPLY TORMENT!?

Axe #4 having a follow-up skill which teleports to the target would be a way better design. I don't care much for confusion, in PvE it is pretty much bleeding under a different name and in competitive modes it feels annoying to fight against.

[Angesombre.4630]

And then there's this, where there's no problem at all. No nerf for a while now.

 

[Kelalis.4790]

It's a guardian class that's easy to play for substantial damage. It embodies the class core principle of maximum impact with minimal effort.

[arazoth.7290]

20 minutes ago, Kelalis.4790 said:

It's a guardian class that's easy to play for substantial damage. It embodies the class core principle of maximum impact with minimal effort.

kinda

[Tofu.1865]

 

On 8/22/2024 at 10:00 PM, SWLDguitar.5746 said:

I would love to see the data/video of someone doing 50k with spear.  Looking on snowcrows, 50k would be 10% higher than the current highest dps. While i believe it is true, it would mean spear will see nerfs, which makes no sense from what everyone else is reporting. 

There's even 54k and 55k videos lol.