Loathing Guardian Spear

[Bish.8627]

42 minutes ago, Warscythes.9307 said:

Is better than staff on healbender because you want to camp hammer. So the second weapon is always going to be whatever is the better quick swap and more multihits the better due to how alacrity is generated, spear is better than staff at it because it is the better "burst" option with more multi hits. You then immediately swap back to hammer and keep autoing.

Please stop. I know you think you are helping by blind defending it because you have one niche usage for it, that is totally ok. But go back and look what happened to revs scepter, exactly the same. Spear is a copy of a few rev skills chucked onto a single weapon with the same idea as scepter that didnt work then. Peoples issues with it are just as valid as your single usage idea because it is not perfect, nothing ever can be. But if we just go "yeah so I arguably can use it for 9 seconds now and the in one game mode so its all good no changes needed" it ends up never used by the majority of players and not even that good for the one role you point out. Taking that damage over greatsword or longbow or that support over empower and blast/heal of staff I dont think is an option. But, having an option and change is always nice so your points valid.

[Supernova Starr.2069]

14 minutes ago, Kuya.6495 said:

Yea but if it's a replacement for sword/focus, isn't spear better? The spear heals, condi cleanses and provides boons such as might, fury and resistance. That sounds like better value if the dps numbers are similar.

Yes and no, imo, the boons throw occasionally helps, but since it's a filler weapon, it won't matter much, after hitting 3-4-5, I want to get out of the spear asap due it's massive cds

I know it's silly but JW made me want to move on from guardian lol

Edited August 22 by Supernova Starr.2069

[Warscythes.9307]

12 minutes ago, Bish.8627 said:

Please stop. I know you think you are helping by blind defending it because you have one niche usage for it, that is totally ok. But go back and look what happened to revs scepter, exactly the same. Spear is a copy of a few rev skills chucked onto a single weapon with the same idea as scepter that didnt work then. Peoples issues with it are just as valid as your single usage idea because it is not perfect, nothing ever can be. But if we just go "yeah so I arguably can use it for 9 seconds now and the in one game mode so its all good no changes needed" it ends up never used by the majority of players and not even that good for the one role you point out. Taking that damage over greatsword or longbow or that support over empower and blast/heal of staff I dont think is an option. But, having an option and change is always nice so your points valid.

That's the thing, is not a niche usage weapon. Spear/GS currently has a higher burst, spear is the go to weapon for power builds aside from GS. It is actually a general use weapon and offers alternative of DH build from virtue to radiance. How is that niche?

For staff healer, the thing with healing right now is that every healer massively overheals at the moment. Yes spear heals less, but is there a difference between healing 100% of your party's health vs healing 200% of your party's health? There isn't, not to mention boon application is by far the more important part of a healer's duties. In specifically healbender builds, spear is the better option because of the multi hit. I think you are just way undervaluing the weapon at the moment.

Edited August 22 by Warscythes.9307

[Warscythes.9307]

10 minutes ago, Supernova Starr.2069 said:

Yes and no, imo, the boons throw occasionally helps, but since it's a filler weapon, it won't matter much, after hitting 3-4-5, I want to get out of the spear asap due it's massive cds

I know it's silly but JW made me want to move on from guardian lol

Why? It currently offers better opening burst than even SLB, is a burst weapon not a filler weapon. You spend very equally amount of time in both GS and Spear. Are you trying to make it a camp weapon for some reason? GW2 has always been about constant weapon swapping, spears fits neatly into it. What else are you taking it? Sword/focus and longbow is less damage but they offer alternative of bit more defense with focus or range combat. Spear is just better damage wise and give a bit of mobility and condi cleanse.

Edited August 22 by Warscythes.9307

[Supernova Starr.2069]

3 minutes ago, Warscythes.9307 said:

It currently offers better opening burst than even SLB, is a burst weapon not a filler weapon.

The video you posted, the burst comes from DH itself, not spear particularly

 

4 minutes ago, Warscythes.9307 said:

Are you trying to make it a camp weapon for some reason?

Not really, lol

[Warscythes.9307]

3 minutes ago, Supernova Starr.2069 said:

The video you posted, the burst comes from DH itself, not spear particularly

 

Not really, lol

Spear is part of the DH build, what are you even talking about lol. Does it mean GS is bad because the burst comes from DH itself and not GS particularly? What are you trying to say man.

If you watch the video, you can tell he spends a very roughly equal amount of time in each weapon, there is no you stay in GS for 2 loops is just swap in/out almost equal amount of time. Is not a filler weapon, is just a more burst oriented weapon which has its niche especially in places like fractals or shorter burst phase fights. 

Edited August 22 by Warscythes.9307

[Supernova Starr.2069]

Just now, Warscythes.9307 said:

What are you trying to say lol.

DH was already bursting 50k+ before JW and spears

[Warscythes.9307]

 

2 minutes ago, Supernova Starr.2069 said:

DH was already bursting 50k+ before JW and spears

Spear has an opening burst of 100k+

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/380903704808652801/1275567215407534152/Capture.PNG?ex=66c8564b&is=66c704cb&hm=2638334558df495ca67af1cfc0417e9b2da09373f018a884f2b22f8ace9e96a9&

Edited August 22 by Warscythes.9307

[Saiyan.1704]

10 minutes ago, Supernova Starr.2069 said:

Yes and no, imo, the boons throw occasionally helps, but since it's a filler weapon, it won't matter much, after hitting 3-4-5, I want to get out of the spear asap due it's massive cds

I know it's silly but JW made me want to move on from guardian lol

(sPvp) That's basically how I use spear. I Judges + 3, followed by 4 and 5, maybe I'll use 2 if there are allies near by for me to heal, then I quickly leave it because there's no point in staying in spear.

It's a glob weapon that requires allies for it to shine. But the burst of 3 and 4 is where it's at. Comparable to GS's spin to win damage.

[Supernova Starr.2069]

2 minutes ago, Warscythes.9307 said:

Spear has an opening burst of 100k+

 

Interesting, I could probably be playing wrong but still feels very clunky and not that powerful lol

2 minutes ago, Saiyan.1704 said:

(sPvp) That's basically how I use spear. I Judges + 3, followed by 4 and 5, maybe I'll use 2 if there are allies near by for me to heal, then I quickly leave it because there's no point in staying in spear.

I go for a similar opener, some encounters makes me anxious when I remember spear is 2nd hand

2 is odd mid combat, heal is a nice touch but not that big of difference, the downed cleave it's partially gone, idk if it's a bug or a feature, it was the best part of beta spear lol

[Riba.3271]

It is pretty bad. The healing numbers seem ok, but the boons it provides are not great. I get it has cleanse in 4 skill, but delayed cleanse is never useful... As DPS, well you can put all the numbers together and almost get outdamaged by Greatsword 2.

[Warscythes.9307]

2 minutes ago, Supernova Starr.2069 said:

Interesting, I could probably be playing wrong but still feels very clunky and not that powerful lol

I go for a similar opener, some encounters makes me anxious when I remember spear is 2nd hand

2 is odd mid combat, heal is a nice touch but not that big of difference, the downed cleave it's partially gone, idk if it's a bug or a feature, it was the best part of beta spear lol

I honestly don't know what to tell you, because I played 4 spear classes, thief/necro/rev/guard because I only like melee spears and mesmer doesn't appeal to me, this is the best rendition for me, thief is on there but I don't like the general thief playstyle. Is very fluid especially because I like playing willbender so having more options to reposition has always been a plus for me. You intermix your spear 2 with other spear casts and there's never really a delay. I can't really tell you what is clunky or not though because that is going to be pure personal opinion.

[Warscythes.9307]

3 minutes ago, Riba.3271 said:

It is pretty bad. The healing numbers seem ok, but the boons it provides are not great. I get it has cleanse in 4 skill, but delayed cleanse is never useful... As DPS, well you can put all the numbers together and almost get outdamaged by Greatsword 2.

In PvE that is just not correct. GS2 is 5.775 coeff, Spear 4 by itself is 6.0 with a lower cast time, the spear autoattack damage is very bad but all together it is a good bursty weapon. Where are you getting your numbers from that the DPS number is bad?

Edited August 22 by Warscythes.9307

[Supernova Starr.2069]

4 minutes ago, Warscythes.9307 said:

I honestly don't know what to tell you, because I played 4 spear classes, thief/necro/rev/guard because I only like melee spears and mesmer doesn't appeal to me, this is the best rendition for me, thief is on there but I don't like the general thief playstyle. Is very fluid especially because I like playing willbender so having more options to reposition has always been a plus for me. You intermix your spear 2 with other spear casts and there's never really a delay. I can't really tell you what is clunky or not though because that is going to be pure personal opinion.

Played ele/engi/guard, I like what they did to engi, ele is pure weeb bait. I play WB most of the time, If 2 had WB F2 fluidity, would be an awesome feature but right now still not there, is quite simple around PvE since everything is stationary most of the time, but sPvP/WvW It does not feel a reliable movement skill, I feel exposed during it's cast.

[Supernova Starr.2069]

I'd like to take it back everything I said, guardian spear is GOAT.

Anet, keep up the good work!

[Kuya.6495]

40 minutes ago, Supernova Starr.2069 said:

I'd like to take it back everything I said, guardian spear is GOAT.

Anet, keep up the good work!

What changed your mind?

[Supernova Starr.2069]

53 minutes ago, Kuya.6495 said:

What changed your mind?

I was unable to pull a proper rotation out of it, but after that DH video stuff started to click lol

Tho, I'm testing WB

[otto.5684]

I was skeptical from the beginning since guardian already have 2 support weapons and a ton of support options. spear is.. unsure honestly. It ain’t terrible but it does not have a niche and is not even that strong as a bruiser type weapon.

[Gaiawolf.8261]

It's a versatile weapon in pve and wvw at least, but it has some limits on its use. It's great for power bursts but damage falls off after busting your CDs. You can't stay in it or you lose damage. As a hybrid support weapon, it can spread useful boons and give a decent chunk of healing when you need it. Plus mobility.

I'm not sure if the devs feel its bursty nature is a problem or not. They could lower coefficients and CDs, but I doubt they will. They can't really do much with the auto due to its versatile dual nature. Maybe raise the damage a bit to balance the weapon out and see how that goes? My DH likes the burst though, so she may mutiny if they do that. 😄

Also, loot stick in OW zergs.

[Kartasia.5960]

Weapon abilities aside, one thing that may be mildly overlooked is the spear's weapon strength. The spear is a two-handed weapon with a weapon strength of 950–1050 at the Ascended/Legendary level. A one-handed sword weapon's strength is 950–1050 in the same Ascended/Legendary flavor. The spear should be somewhere in the range of the Greatsword or Hammer IMO.

[daw.4923]

wouldn't be anets amazing balancing team if support weapon didn't replaced BOW on DH.

SYSTEM TEAM HYPE - SYSTEM TEAM HYPE.

[Gaiawolf.8261]

39 minutes ago, daw.4923 said:

wouldn't be anets amazing balancing team if support weapon didn't replaced BOW on DH.

SYSTEM TEAM HYPE - SYSTEM TEAM HYPE.

Spear can replace GS or LB on DH. You take your pick, depending on hitbox, encounter, and preference. 

[CAA.9653]

I can't figure out the Spear. As others have said, it's not a power, condi, nor support weapon. I guess it's made for celestial guardians, and I don't run those builds. Moreover, if GS is the 2-H power weapon, staff is 2-H support, and hammer is the in-betweener, shouldn't spear the 2-H condi weapon?

[Gaiawolf.8261]

26 minutes ago, CAA.9653 said:

I can't figure out the Spear. As others have said, it's not a power, condi, nor support weapon. I guess it's made for celestial guardians, and I don't run those builds. Moreover, if GS is the 2-H power weapon, staff is 2-H support, and hammer is the in-betweener, shouldn't spear the 2-H condi weapon?

I have found 3 good uses for the spear.

1. Power DH: The spear has MASSIVE bursts on power DH. It can replace either GS or LB in your set, depending on preference. Open all your fight with a spear for incredible spikes up to 90K dps with zerker gear and full support. I might even expect a nerf here, but I hope not. Do NOT camp in the spear. CDs are too long and the auto sucks for dps.
2. DPS/Support Hybrid: Once again, it's mostly for bursts or for filling in some support with cleanses, healing, and boons, but it is NOT your primary weapon. You don't want to stay in the spear for long before you go back to your primary DPS weapon. The guardian's spear has poor sustained damage. For this reason, I find it best on my ritualist/celestial FB, since I can go into a tome after burning Spear #2,5,4,3,2 without waiting for weapon swap. (That sparks a thought. Now I want to try it with a Warrior relic. That might work well on pWB.) Only use the auto when allies need steady, moderate healing and everything else is on CD. Or loot stick in blobs.
3. WVW: There is so much here to unpack, and the spear is absolutely a top tier WVW play for both roaming and zergs on any spec. In zergs, its the loot stick with great support. Resistance is probably the most busted boon along with stab in WVW. Aside from that, the spear can heal, cleanse, spread useful boons, AOE range attack, and even provide a mobility skill. It's got all the tools, except aegis. Knowing when to use each is the play.

I've tested all these and use all 3 regularly now. The spear has found a home on 2 of my FB builds (1 PVE and 1 WVW) and replaced GS on my DH when I play her. I heard some people are using the spear for full support builds, but I haven't tested it out, so I can't personally give an opinion there. It's probably my next test with the weapon. But I'm on mesmer testing now, so that will have to wait.