Changed my mind. Wild throw's basically unusuable now

[WingSwipe.3084]

1 hour ago, Shagie.7612 said:

spearmarshal's support does big damage still, and is almost guaranteed to get nerfed
when that happens it'll go from a significantly improved rifle to... slightly better than rifle

that's pitiful
let glassy pzerk builds be scary, it already feels awful playing on def/disc pzerk because you give up the evade lol

it's not like zerk can build for both high damage threat and also have good defensive capabilities like idk, spear on mes or willy

But warrior do big damage and I no want dodge.

Im pretty sure glass Pzerker is the only actual glass cannon build left.

You can get the same damage off other professions who can layer 6+ seconds of damage immunity

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

6 hours ago, Shagie.7612 said:

spearmarshal's support does big damage still, and is almost guaranteed to get nerfed
when that happens it'll go from a significantly improved rifle to... slightly better than rifle

that's pitiful
let glassy pzerk builds be scary, it already feels awful playing on def/disc pzerk because you give up the evade lol

it's not like zerk can build for both high damage threat and also have good defensive capabilities like idk, spear on mes or willy

People can kitten and learn to dodge after they see the spears dropping from the sky. Not like it's competing with all the floor vomit; they can't claim to not see it.

[cryorion.9532]

6 hours ago, Shagie.7612 said:

spearmarshal's support does big damage still, and is almost guaranteed to get nerfed
when that happens it'll go from a significantly improved rifle to... slightly better than rifle

that's pitiful
let glassy pzerk builds be scary, it already feels awful playing on def/disc pzerk because you give up the evade lol

it's not like zerk can build for both high damage threat and also have good defensive capabilities like idk, spear on mes or willy

In WvW, as long as willbender or mirage exist, I don't see an issue with warrior spear dmg. People need to learn to correctly dodge spearmarshal. It is very telegraphed. Some people already manage to dodge it consistently. The skill is great for forcing enemy to use evades/defense or to use it after, especially on running away targets. What an amazing skill.

Probably bigger issue might be lvl3 Harrier's Toss but even then, it can either do 15k dmg or 5k dmg. Damage spectrum in WvW is wild.

Realistically, I can see anet overnerfing the spear damage, so I guess enjoy it while it lasts.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

4 hours ago, WingSwipe.3084 said:

But warrior do big damage and I no want dodge.

Im pretty sure glass Pzerker is the only actual glass cannon build left.

You can get the same damage off other professions who can layer 6+ seconds of damage immunity

Welcome to the underworld.

We mitigate by learning the other players rotation  and trading by damaging with decap in the 1 second of savage instinct we trait for when they expect to be doing damage. 

We also land headbutt then get lamentations in whisper that nobody wants to elaborate on.  💀

[Shagie.7612]

23 minutes ago, cryorion.9532 said:

Probably bigger issue might be lvl3 Harrier's Toss

spellbreaker doesn't even get level 3s, lol

idk what to tell you guys if you don't think spear deserves to be slapped down
spellbreaker's even more busted than it already was because of it, def/disc should not be doing that kinda damage while also being effectively immortal

it's just a disappointment that it was pre-emptively hamstrung for the kinds of builds that really could have used an effective ranged weapon, ie squisher, higher damage builds

spears not bringing new niches isn't unique to warrior, a bunch of them jumped into an already existing spot and made the other similar weapons obsolete (or failed to do so), and for the life of me i can't figure out why that was seemingly the goal

[cryorion.9532]

7 minutes ago, Shagie.7612 said:

spellbreaker doesn't even get level 3s, lol

idk what to tell you guys if you don't think spear deserves to be slapped down
spellbreaker's even more busted than it already was because of it, def/disc should not be doing that kinda damage while also being effectively immortal

it's just a disappointment that it was pre-emptively hamstrung for the kinds of builds that really could have used an effective ranged weapon, ie squisher, higher damage builds

spears not bringing new niches isn't unique to warrior, a bunch of them jumped into an already existing spot and made the other similar weapons obsolete (or failed to do so), and for the life of me i can't figure out why that was seemingly the goal

Well yes, but you can't balance spear around spellbreaker, otherwise it will get nerfed into oblivion and end up in trash bin (this is hyperbole)...

Spellbreaker needs other adjustments, instead. Also I think you probably mean this for PvP, since balance in WvW is quite different.

Edited August 28 by cryorion.9532

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

19 minutes ago, cryorion.9532 said:

Well yes, but you can't balance spear around spellbreaker, otherwise it will get nerfed into oblivion and end up in trash bin (this is hyperbole)...

Spellbreaker needs other adjustments, instead. Also I think you probably mean this for PvP, since balance in WvW is quite different.

This. If there is an issue, it resides in the fact that PvP Spellbreaker gets more added damage modifiers than PvE Berserker while having Full Counter on a bugged CD.

Spear isn't the problem, address the real problem.

Edited August 28 by Lan Deathrider.5910

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

1 hour ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Spear isn't the problem, address the real problem.

^ 

1 hour ago, Shagie.7612 said:

idk what to tell you guys if you don't think spear deserves to be slapped down

Spellbreaker is even more busted because of it

You and I both watched the exact same balancing behavior, no?

Spear shipping fixed, but nerfed on skills that don't affect spellbreaker?

What do you think will happen if spear gets nerfed instead of the giant red flag that is the common denominator? 

Edited August 28 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Lighter.5631]

Literally noticed on day one, in a game where everybody is zapping now,

this skill literally cancel so easily and goes on full cooldown and also lose all adrenaline.

like rangers dont even use longbow now because they power creep the fk out of mobility

[Aaron.1294]

@Lan Deathrider.5910Spearmarshal support is a huge problem, same for harrier's Toss having 1/2 sec casttime and 3/4 sec evade frame... Wild throw doing half damage of Harrier's Toss (because it's a multiple hitting skill) while not having evade 

Staff heal is a huge problem too because it's a passive heal

and obviously Full counter being able to reset burst cooldown

Every single one of these things are a problem.

@Shagie.7612Burst levels are irrelevant since 2020. Anet should buff them but they refuse to do it, that's why we have these insanely stupid memes on spellbreaker

Edited August 28 by Aaron.1294

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

2 hours ago, Aaron.1294 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910Spearmarshal support is a huge problem, same for harrier's Toss having 1/2 sec casttime and 3/4 sec evade frame... Wild throw doing half damage of Harrier's Toss (because it's a multiple hitting skill) while not having evade 

Staff heal is a huge problem too because it's a passive heal

and obviously Full counter being able to reset burst cooldown

Every single one of these things are a problem.

Then why do we not see staff BSWs running rampant? Why do we not see Spearsworns running rampant? Spearzerkers? Core Staff/Spear?

[cryorion.9532]

2 hours ago, Aaron.1294 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910Spearmarshal support is a huge problem, same for harrier's Toss having 1/2 sec casttime and 3/4 sec evade frame... Wild throw doing half damage of Harrier's Toss (because it's a multiple hitting skill) while not having evade 

Staff heal is a huge problem too because it's a passive heal

and obviously Full counter being able to reset burst cooldown

Every single one of these things are a problem.

@Shagie.7612Burst levels are irrelevant since 2020. Anet should buff them but they refuse to do it, that's why we have these insanely stupid memes on spellbreaker

How are those skill problematic? Too much damage? Too much evades? Too fast? Is the spear problematic with core warrior/berserker/bladesworn, only spellbreaker or on all specs? In PvP/WvW? You can't really isolate the skills and say they are problematic without stating the context.

Spearmashal Support is not problematic at all. It is properly telegraphed and can be simply avoided, there is nothing problematic about it. Do you want to just walk away from it? Or is warrior not allowed to deal damage or what? Or did you mean it is problematic on defensive spellbreaker in PvP?

Imo, Harrier's Toss is the only problematic spear skill because it is less telegraphed (even though there is big jump animation which in bigger fights might not be visible) and (in WvW) lvl 3 HT can crit for 15k+ while it also evades. However, this is assuming the spear warrior is fully buffed and the targeted player uses glassy build and doesn't have defensive buffs. Otherwise the damage can be as big as 5k or so.

If you nerf all hard hitting skills on spear then it is very likely spear will simply not be worth using for what it is supposed to do.

 

[Aaron.1294]

@cryorion.9532I said why they're problematic already? Harrier's Toss lots of dmg and evade (mainly 3/4 sec of evade frame), spearmarshal support LITERALLY WORKING LIKE DRAGONTOOTH (and no, it is impossible to just avoid it, from cool gimmick anet made it into point and do dmg button....). And I also don't want ppl to just walk away - I want it to have more integrity with other skills - cripple/immob  etc. so it's a combo-like thing rather than free dmg bs, because it obviously is going to get nerfed 

And if they nerf all hard hitting skills then buff other skills to be more hard hitting - like spear 2 (especially aftershock), WILD THROW things that are not that easy to hit and require proper setup unlike this meme.

@Lan Deathrider.5910They nerfed Wild throw, Bsw is a meme of a spec and staff/spear core literally is the most boring thing ever created. OH boi oh boi, bad specs are bad because they're bad -,-

 

Edited August 29 by Aaron.1294

[cryorion.9532]

12 minutes ago, Aaron.1294 said:

@cryorion.9532I said why they're problematic already? Harrier's Toss lots of dmg and evade (mainly 3/4 sec of evade frame), spearmarshal support LITERALLY WORKING LIKE DRAGONTOOTH (and no, it is impossible to just avoid it, from cool gimmick anet made it into point and do dmg button....). And I also don't want ppl to just walk away - I want it to have more integrity with other skills - cripple/immob  etc. so it's a combo-like thing rather than free dmg bs, because it obviously is going to get nerfed 

"Combo-like thing" so people can ignore it with resistance and still dodge just in case. This can work nicely on paper but in real fights, when fighting someone who isn't seasonal gift of battle farmer, it would be frustrating to combo and most people using it would almost certainly complain about it.

"from cool gimmick anet made it into point and do dmg button"
And? How is that a problem? It is nice to have more impactul skills than gimmick ones. If you want rifle-like spear, then fine. I don't. Using Spearmarshal is easy, you press a button, skill does damage unless enemy reacts to it properly. And it is not hard to avoid it (evade/block/etc). In fact, it is easy and all it takes is some experience.

I am pretty sure people will learn how to fight warrior spear, they just cry because suddenly warrior does big damage that they are not used to. I can imagine spellbreaker being pain in the kitten, but that is more about spellbreaker than spear itself.

21 minutes ago, Aaron.1294 said:

And if they nerf all hard hitting skills then buff other skills to be more hard hitting - like spear 2 (especially aftershock), WILD THROW things that are not that easy to hit and require proper setup unlike this meme.

So instead of spear 4 + F1, you would do spear 2 + F1? Wild Throw is hard hitting skill btw.

The only exception is Harrier's Toss which is probably justfied to be adequatly nerfed, given it has evade and is very fast.

[WingSwipe.3084]

6 hours ago, Aaron.1294 said:

@cryorion.9532I said why they're problematic already? Harrier's Toss lots of dmg and evade (mainly 3/4 sec of evade frame), spearmarshal support LITERALLY WORKING LIKE DRAGONTOOTH (and no, it is impossible to just avoid it, from cool gimmick anet made it into point and do dmg button....). And I also don't want ppl to just walk away - I want it to have more integrity with other skills - cripple/immob  etc. so it's a combo-like thing rather than free dmg bs, because it obviously is going to get nerfed 

And if they nerf all hard hitting skills then buff other skills to be more hard hitting - like spear 2 (especially aftershock), WILD THROW things that are not that easy to hit and require proper setup unlike this meme.

Spearmarshal is over in a second, the only time you catch someone out with the skill is if they are braindead or have no defences. And in the case you are out of defensives, I can do the same thing with rifle.
It shouldnt be warriors fault if you fail the dodge test.

Id much rather have Marshal be the big damage CD in PvP then try to rely on the dinky hitbox of spear 2.

6 hours ago, Aaron.1294 said:

 

@Lan Deathrider.5910They nerfed Wild throw, Bsw is a meme of a spec and staff/spear core literally is the most boring thing ever created. OH boi oh boi, bad specs are bad because they're bad -,-

If you look up, your going to see the point being made flying right above you.

[Aaron.1294]

@cryorion.9532Spear 4 does not need to be casted for it's whole duration,  unlike Wild throw... it can be casted behind walls, pillars etc. warrior just need clear sight at the very beggining... it is an extremely problematic skill to balance due to it's entire nature (just like focus 4 on Guardian)

@WingSwipe.3084if you have problems with hitting your spear 2 just swap to instant ground targeting. And no you can't make same arguments with rifle because rifle requires you to be in front of your enemy...

All I see are warriors not seeing any problems with something that obviously is going to cause them, but that's obv what forums are right? 🙂

 

 

[WingSwipe.3084]

3 minutes ago, Aaron.1294 said:

@cryorion.9532Spear 4 does not need to be casted for it's whole duration,  unlike Wild throw... it can be casted behind walls, pillars etc. warrior just need clear sight at the very beggining... it is an extremely problematic skill to balance due to it's entire nature (just like focus 4 on Guardian)

@WingSwipe.3084if you have problems with hitting your spear 2 just swap to instant ground targeting. And no you can't make same arguments with rifle because rifle requires you to be in front of your enemy...

All I see are warriors not seeing any problems with something that obviously is going to cause them, but that's obv what forums are right? 🙂

Looks at the thousands of posts and content creators making videos regarding warrior and its issues with the profession and how it affects others.

Looks at the hundreds of posts from warrior mains stating that spear was going to cause issues because of Spellbreaker.

Looks at the instant reaction I had after playing with spear for 5 games as a glass power berserker.

Looks at this statement.

Im going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume your new here, otherwise I cant help you.

 

[Aaron.1294]

@WingSwipe.3084read all my points and tell me how they aren't problematic. 

I can wait.

And to "look at" statements

look at the thousands of posts regarding warrspear in particular.

And no, I am a gw2 vet playing warr as my main since 2016 plat 3 consistently etc. I genuinely want warrior to feel like they can become entertaining and rewarding at the same time. If you don't believe me it's w/e for me just keep in mind that same guys who you brought in your post ALSO made waay too many stupid and just wrong arguments regarding warrior.

Edited August 29 by Aaron.1294

[WingSwipe.3084]

12 hours ago, Aaron.1294 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910Spearmarshal support is a huge problem, same for harrier's Toss having 1/2 sec casttime and 3/4 sec evade frame... Wild throw doing half damage of Harrier's Toss (because it's a multiple hitting skill) while not having evade 

"Spearmarshal is over in a second, the only time you catch someone out with the skill is if they are braindead or have no defences. And in the case you are out of defensives, I can do the same thing with rifle.
It shouldnt be warriors fault if you fail the dodge test."

Every profession is so overloaded with defensives that I cant feel bad if this kills you.

Harriers toss and Spearmarshal is hitting a lot harder then normal because SPB has passive stat steroids of 250 for each power stat for just doing warrior things. You also get a 10% increase in damage from tether which can get procced from harriers toss which does more damage to boonless foes.

The only thing I can find with Spearmarshal is that its not registering with any kind of projectile reflect. Thats the only fault I can find with it.

12 hours ago, Aaron.1294 said:

Staff heal is a huge problem too because it's a passive heal

Staff heal is only a problem because SPB can take it and gives it boonrip on CC along with the passive healing. Thats the reason Path to Victory got nerfed this patch from 0.91 to 0.5. Now it only has viability as a healing tool.

This weapon is still going to get abused because SPB uses it as mobility, CC and defensive tool, not an offensive one.

9 hours ago, Aaron.1294 said:

@cryorion.9532I said why they're problematic already? Harrier's Toss lots of dmg and evade (mainly 3/4 sec of evade frame), spearmarshal support LITERALLY WORKING LIKE DRAGONTOOTH (and no, it is impossible to just avoid it, from cool gimmick anet made it into point and do dmg button....). And I also don't want ppl to just walk away - I want it to have more integrity with other skills - cripple/immob  etc. so it's a combo-like thing rather than free dmg bs, because it obviously is going to get nerfed 

The only similarity to Dragons Tooth is the tracking, otherwise Spearmarshal has a big fat mark on you and below your feet instantly when its cast and is over much faster.

The only way I can use this skill and effectivley deal damage with it is if someone has burned all their defensives and are just standing there. Its not impossible to avoid the damage, it comes in 7 hits in where the first hit deals the most damage, just keep an eye on the warrior with the spear and, shocker, expect them to cast the skill.

If im watching a ranger with a longbow, and dont expect them to shoot me with Rapid Fire im an Idiot and deserve to get hit by it.

Spearmarshal also has a 20 second cooldown so its the least spammable thing in the entirety of warriors spear. You have to actually think when you use the ability and not pop it on the first first person you see with all their evades up.

And yet again, the damage from this skill is only as strong as it is because SPB took all the steroids. If you try this weapon on any other warrior elite spec or on core you are going to have a drastically different experience, which you admit yourself is because every other part of warrior as a profession is dogwater kinds of bad.

3 hours ago, WingSwipe.3084 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910They nerfed Wild throw, Bsw is a meme of a spec and staff/spear core literally is the most boring thing ever created. OH boi oh boi, bad specs are bad because they're bad -,-

This entire kitten-show is because SPB is being a massive obtuse thorn in the side of the game, and its dragging the rest of warrior as a profession down with it.

Anet needs to balance SPB around the weapons and not nerf the weapons because SPB is too strong.

Edited August 29 by WingSwipe.3084

[WingSwipe.3084]

56 minutes ago, Aaron.1294 said:

And no, I am a gw2 vet playing warr as my main since 2016 plat 3 consistently etc. I genuinely want warrior to feel like they can become entertaining and rewarding at the same time. If you don't believe me it's w/e for me just keep in mind that same guys who you brought in your post ALSO made waay too many stupid and just wrong arguments regarding warrior.

I also want warrior to be fun and rewarding.

Im also trying to state the most obvious thing I can see thats preventing it and is actively causing issues for the entirety of a game mode in GW2.

Everyone can be wrong, no one is without fault. Im especially critical of myself and am fully willing to admit that I have biases and and can be wrong.
Can you?
You seem to constantly be shifting blame away from the one cause 95% of the PvP community agrees on feels abusive to play against, you sure there isnt some bias because you play said abusive play style?

Also, if your going to roll up here and pull rank on someone who enjoys playing memebuilds in PvP and think that gives you any credibility, then you are going to be sorely disappointed.

But all in all, you are so heavily focused on the symptom that your missing the cause. Spear isnt the issue here, Speallbreaker is.

[Shagie.7612]

24 minutes ago, WingSwipe.3084 said:

Spear isnt the issue here, Speallbreaker is.

I don't think that's very accurate, tbh

Spear's also extremely good on Core (which is why it saw a team try it out in the monthly), and it's not exactly bad performance on Zerk, it just feels bad because Wild Throw got wrecked. The rest of the kit's still very strong.

It's more that the rest of Pzerk and Bladesworn suck so hard they can't make any use of it being overtuned lol

[WingSwipe.3084]

27 minutes ago, Shagie.7612 said:

I don't think that's very accurate, tbh

Spear's also extremely good on Core (which is why it saw a team try it out in the monthly), and it's not exactly bad performance on Zerk, it just feels bad because Wild Throw got wrecked. The rest of the kit's still very strong.

It's more that the rest of Pzerk and Bladesworn suck so hard they can't make any use of it being overtuned lol

Its extremely good because the things we have to compare it to are warriors regular and totally outdated weapons. What other ranged power weapons is spear competing with in warriors arsenal?

Spear has essentially replaced rifle and GS for most builds. This isnt really suprising however since this is the first power weapon we have received that isnt a trash fire of janky mechanics and poor balancing.

Im firmly under the belief that Warrior staff and spear should be the new standard for what warrior weapons should be. Or at the very least a step below them. Staff and Spear and phenomenal weapons that feel great and rewarding to use in any content.

[Aaron.1294]

@WingSwipe.3084I'm playing powerzerker/quickbreaker exclusively. Does that make me qualify now?

Spear replace rifle for it's broken kiting, damage, AoE and low cd dodge, staff should never ever be a standard warrior weapon but anet deicded that warrior need another source of heal (which is a huge mistake and everyone should know that because healing is stupidly overtuned, especially on warrior -,-) 

I have my bias and for the most part I can assure you - my arguments weren't just my own. Lots of people think this way if you like it or not. I saw most things getting destroyed on warrior and I don't want another weapon to become neither dumb evade spam nor useless.

And it seems that most people here are bias about spellbreaker being always the problem. Just like it was with bladesworn when it became broken OP "guys this class is soo clunky it can't do anything it's so useless etc".

 

[Ferus.3165]

11 hours ago, Aaron.1294 said:

I said why they're problematic already? Harrier's Toss lots of dmg and evade (mainly 3/4 sec of evade frame), spearmarshal support LITERALLY WORKING LIKE DRAGONTOOTH (and no, it is impossible to just avoid it, from cool gimmick anet made it into point and do dmg button....). And I also don't want (...) - I want (...)

too bad the game is not about what you want. Spear may need some adjustments in pvp but it's absolutely fine in wvw.

[Aaron.1294]

@Ferus.3165I can assure you they gonna nerf spearmarshal and other stuff in wvw (BECAUSE THESE AIN'T PROJECTILES)

And like who cares when wvw is just dmg/healing/boon spamfest

Edited August 29 by Aaron.1294