Confused about Caudecus *spoilers*

[susanoo.8706]

In lw season 3 we see Caudecus as a deranged, obsessive and power-hungry minister and the confessor of the white mantle, but it is clear he is not a true white mantle believer. His association with the white mantle and 'worship' of the Mursaat are presented as a means to an end, that end being his rule of Kryta. Unlike Xera and her intent to revive Lazarus, Caudecus does not want to see this, actively sabotaging the gathering of the aspects, as is revealed in lw3. he became the confessor to gain control of white mantle manpower and resources, and use their faith as a weapon, not as a zealot himself. 

However,  during [A History Most Violent: Part 2], a collection achievement in Jantir Syntri, we read journal entries from Caudecus dated from sometime around the death of Xera at the hands of the commander and the start of lw3, which strongly suggest a genuine worship of Saul, the 'unseen ones' and a fervent an adherence to white mantle beliefs, even if they are also directed at claiming the throne, or perhaps 'saving it from the naïve queen Jennah'. He also seems a lot less deranged but that can probably be put down to the fact he wasn't snorting bloodstone, at least as much, at the time of writing.

 

So what happened? Why does one minute he worship the Mursaat in his own private writings, and the next actively prevent their resurrection? Is this a lore continuity error? is there something I'm missing?  

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

he did not want Lazarus come back. Maybe because Lazarus was a total kitten. 

[Invidia.9074]

By the time these journals were created, Caudecus already knew that Lazarus he saw was an impostor, thus the splintering in the White Mantle, but there is nothing suggesting that he wasn't a believer (apart from being also a power-hungry maniac). The only thing that distinguished him from Xera was probably the level of devotion and the smarts (Xera being the devoted one and Caudecus having a tad more braincells, at least until he started ingesting Bloodstone)

[Kalavier.1097]

From memory, as I haven't touched JW yet. Caudecus was a full member of the White Mantle, but he wanted things done his way, his beliefs. He sabotaged Xera purely because she was a rival, and he did not want his shot at the throne to be usurped by another member being the one to bring back the Mursaat.

[draxynnic.3719]

Haven't done that content yet. Unfortunately, I wouldn't be surprised if it's just an inconsistency - there have been a few. If the journals are in White Mantle territory rather than his own manor, too, it's possible that he was lying in his journals just in case a rival came across them.

[EdwinLi.1284]

1 hour ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Haven't done that content yet. Unfortunately, I wouldn't be surprised if it's just an inconsistency - there have been a few. If the journals are in White Mantle territory rather than his own manor, too, it's possible that he was lying in his journals just in case a rival came across them.

I cannot say he was lying since it sounded like this was before his madness took over. The last journal entry was from another person which was a White Mantle that stayed behind to continue to look for Bava Nisos.

Most likely some time after Caudecus last journal entry the madness may have started taking over due to countless attempts to enter the city but mental attack defenses was always forcing them to retreat. These mental attacks may have been the cause of his madness since it sounded like he had a very strong obsession with trying to get through the defenses and enter Bava Nisos himself.

Either way, it sounds like the remaining White Mantle that stayed behind maybe still around but in the next region. Ulrich, Tatyanna, and Judge are currently the most noticeable in these notes. Most likely we may meet them outside the defenses of Bava Nisos.

Edited August 27 by EdwinLi.1284

[Invidia.9074]

I think Tatyanna was the woman that is heavily hinted to be the Bog Queen, can't say about the other two.

[Hyper Cutter.9376]

On 8/27/2024 at 8:48 AM, Invidia.9074 said:

I think Tatyanna was the woman that is heavily hinted to be the Bog Queen, can't say about the other two.

The Bog Queen was Alessia, from the initial Mantle settlement.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

On 8/26/2024 at 4:12 PM, Invidia.9074 said:

By the time these journals were created, Caudecus already knew that Lazarus he saw was an impostor, thus the splintering in the White Mantle, but there is nothing suggesting that he wasn't a believer (apart from being also a power-hungry maniac). The only thing that distinguished him from Xera was probably the level of devotion and the smarts (Xera being the devoted one and Caudecus having a tad more braincells, at least until he started ingesting Bloodstone)

I have forwarded Valis's request to begin his research on the bloodstone to the confessor. Knowing the confessor's priorities, I emphasized the potential weaponization of the bloodstone's power and mentioned Operation Rebirth as only a secondary objective. I hate to be dishonest about our true intentions, but I am sure a faithful servant of the Unseen Ones such as the confessor will be forgiven when face-to-face with our god!

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Conspiracy_of_Dunces

Lazarus: I am the last mursaat. Many years ago, you knew me as Lazarus the Dire. I have returned from the brink of existence!

Confessor Caudecus: No! You are a false god! The White Mantle is mine! Don't listen to him!

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Confessor's_Stronghold#Dialogue

Some few examples showing Caudecus wasn't really a believer. Caudecus, after becoming Confessors, was opposed to Operation Rebirth to bring back Lazarus. Those faithful to the belief had lied to him about the value of Bloodstone experimentation. Even if you argue Caudecus' claim being that he absolutely knew it couldn't be the real Lazarus, if he was a believer he wouldn't have shouted "The White Mantle is mine!" Keep in mind that Caudecus also actively prevented Lazarus' revival by swapping out one of the artifacts housing a piece of his soul (despite the fact that how GW1's Aspects of Lazarus worked, this wouldn't have mattered and Lazarus would have still manifested with just 4/5).

 

As to the matter of the OP, I haven't done the content yet, but assuming it isn't just him pretending to be faithful before the divide or something, that would be quite the lore contradiction...

[EdwinLi.1284]

9 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

 

 

As to the matter of the OP, I haven't done the content yet, but assuming it isn't just him pretending to be faithful before the divide or something, that would be quite the lore contradiction...

Honestly, the journal makes him sound more like he was excited to find whatever Saul found in the Mursaat City rather than a believer. 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/A_History_Most_Violent:_Part_2

Caudecus believed that whatever Saul found when he discovered the Mursaat city may make him the next Saul for the White Mantle. Thus solidifying his position of power and identity as some great chosen one. I say it is consistent with his state of mind about making the White Mantle his and wanting to rule Kryta as he believed himself to be under some kind of divine destiny to be the ruler of Kryta with the White Mantle as his royal guards.

Though as the journal entries get older, Caudecus became more obsessed and shows signs of what looks like insanity due to constant failed attempts. His constant attempts to enter the City by trying to get past the mental attack defenses and the bloodstones in himself are most likely what lead him to be such a unstable state when he died. 

Edited September 2 by EdwinLi.1284

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

Reading the journals in that link, I agree. Caudecus wasn't acting out of belief - though some of his followers were - but out of interest in the relics and influence Saul's legacy would give him.

There is a slight oddity with the first journal though, indicating Xera is still alive after Caudecus left for Janthir - but Caudecus left after S3E1, and Xera died before that. It seems to be worded as if he has just become Confessor (so after the events of Chapter 2 of the personal story), before being recognized by most. During most of this time, from Caudecus's Manor dungeon to shortly before S3E1, Caudecus was under house arrest in the palace. And he had not yet turned Valette to his side during that brief moment between Chapter 2 and CM dungeon (which would have been around the time of chapters 5-7 of the personal story based on letters from Destiny's Edge). Meanwhile, the last journal from Caudecus also feels worded as if Xera died after S3E1 and before S3E4...

[Kalavier.1097]

2 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Reading the journals in that link, I agree. Caudecus wasn't acting out of belief - though some of his followers were - but out of interest in the relics and influence Saul's legacy would give him.

There is a slight oddity with the first journal though, indicating Xera is still alive after Caudecus left for Janthir - but Caudecus left after S3E1, and Xera died before that. It seems to be worded as if he has just become Confessor (so after the events of Chapter 2 of the personal story), before being recognized by most. During most of this time, from Caudecus's Manor dungeon to shortly before S3E1, Caudecus was under house arrest in the palace. And he had not yet turned Valette to his side during that brief moment between Chapter 2 and CM dungeon (which would have been around the time of chapters 5-7 of the personal story based on letters from Destiny's Edge). Meanwhile, the last journal from Caudecus also feels worded as if Xera died after S3E1 and before S3E4...

Could be that when he came out, he went straight for the bloodstone, and hadn't heard of Xera's death? They weren't getting along perfectly and Xera sounds like she got the fake relic and immediately went to her castle.