Reworking Confusion

[ZephyrusSpring.5728]

Confusion has been rebalanced a lot over the years.  The damage on skill activation (proc) has been increased and decreased a few times, and confusion was even removed from Temporal Rift entirely.  The latest iteration of this balance has been to heavily reduce the proc damage to lessen its power against multi-hitting bosses.  I have come up with a better way to achieve that goal that satisfies every balance constraint.

When a foe procs the bonus damage of confusion it should reduce the remaining duration of confusion on them by 1 second and inflict 1 second's worth of damage.  Essentially, the bonus damage from skill activation would operate like a fast-forward on the condition's output.  Enemies which trigger confusion extremely quickly would eat the total damage of the applied confusion and be cleansed of it.  By functioning in this manner, the unlimited damage potential of confusion is squashed and the stat scaling on this condition could then be balanced into whatever state the devs desire without fear.  I would hope it would also give them the courage to put this condition in more places, such as giving it to warriors through Body Blow.

[Mell.4873]

They should un-nerf the damage and just set an activation limit of 1 second per tick. 

[Gesbo.6420]

Watch axe scepter mesmer become a monster. Actually like that idea. 

[ZephyrusSpring.5728]

21 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

They should un-nerf the damage and just set an activation limit of 1 second per tick. 

That is an option and there's a few different ways you could do it, but the reason I have proposed this more complex rework is because I believe it better fits the vision of what confusion is meant to be.  It'd be a real shame to have your interrupt proc get rolled into the same tick as a regular ability activation.

[mungozen.2379]

On 9/2/2024 at 6:28 PM, ZephyrusSpring.5728 said:

Confusion has been rebalanced a lot over the years.  The damage on skill activation (proc) has been increased and decreased a few times, and confusion was even removed from Temporal Rift entirely.  The latest iteration of this balance has been to heavily reduce the proc damage to lessen its power against multi-hitting bosses.  I have come up with a better way to achieve that goal that satisfies every balance constraint.

When a foe procs the bonus damage of confusion it should reduce the remaining duration of confusion on them by 1 second and inflict 1 second's worth of damage.  Essentially, the bonus damage from skill activation would operate like a fast-forward on the condition's output.  Enemies which trigger confusion extremely quickly would eat the total damage of the applied confusion and be cleansed of it.  By functioning in this manner, the unlimited damage potential of confusion is squashed and the stat scaling on this condition could then be balanced into whatever state the devs desire without fear.  I would hope it would also give them the courage to put this condition in more places, such as giving it to warriors through Body Blow.

I'd simplify this a little bit.  Confusion deals damage over time, but all stacks are consumed when target attacks, dealing all remaining damage.

The player would be working to apply stacks and the target would be removing them and taking damage on attacks.  A faster attacking target would take a lot of small damage triggers, a slower attacking target would have the dot and potentially larger damage triggers.  The net is similar damage numbers over a long enough timeline.

 

[ascii.1369]

On 9/3/2024 at 3:28 AM, ZephyrusSpring.5728 said:

When a foe procs the bonus damage of confusion it should reduce the remaining duration of confusion on them by 1 second and inflict 1 second's worth of damage.  Essentially, the bonus damage from skill activation would operate like a fast-forward on the condition's output.  Enemies which trigger confusion extremely quickly would eat the total damage of the applied confusion and be cleansed of it.  By functioning in this manner, the unlimited damage potential of confusion is squashed and the stat scaling on this condition could then be balanced into whatever state the devs desire without fear.

I actually quite like this idea. It would also make it less oppressive in competitive, since you couldn't stack long duration confusion. They could actually make confusion builds deal damage again.

On 9/3/2024 at 3:28 AM, ZephyrusSpring.5728 said:

I would hope it would also give them the courage to put this condition in more places, such as giving it to warriors through Body Blow.

That I disagree with. They should really stop giving everything to everyone. Class identity has been eroded enough.

Edited September 4 by ascii.1369

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

2 hours ago, ascii.1369 said:

That I disagree with. They should really stop giving everything to everyone. Class identity has been eroded enough.

Confusion when landing a CC was a warrior trait for the first half of the game's life in one form or another. We'd very much like that portion of our class identity back TYVM.

Edited September 4 by Lan Deathrider.5910

[ZephyrusSpring.5728]

11 hours ago, mungozen.2379 said:

I'd simplify this a little bit.  Confusion deals damage over time, but all stacks are consumed when target attacks, dealing all remaining damage.

The player would be working to apply stacks and the target would be removing them and taking damage on attacks.  A faster attacking target would take a lot of small damage triggers, a slower attacking target would have the dot and potentially larger damage triggers.  The net is similar damage numbers over a long enough timeline.

 

I see where you're going but wouldn't that mean using a condition cleansing skill would cause you to take the full damage anyway?  I'm not necessarily against that but could you provide an explanation for why moving to that design would be good or better?

[Gotejjeken.1267]

Isn't this the same as making confusion stack based instead of duration? More stacks means more damage (over time), but each activation removes a stack.

I'd like it more if confusion actually did something as its name implies, not another generic condition.  Torment made sense prior to the change as moving around would cause 'more torment' or more damage, so it was thematically appropriate.  Poison reduces healing because you're poisoned, burning is kind of generic damage because you are well...on fire...

Confusion however, like bleed, has no theme; it's just generic damage, with confusion being far more punishing in any iteration due to it proc'ing on skill use. 

Could be interesting if they fused confusion and taunt somehow, essentially leading to being CC'd by having to auto-attack like taunt or being unable to direct target something, but not really dealing damage anymore.

Edited September 5 by Gotejjeken.1267

[mungozen.2379]

11 hours ago, ZephyrusSpring.5728 said:

I see where you're going but wouldn't that mean using a condition cleansing skill would cause you to take the full damage anyway?  I'm not necessarily against that but could you provide an explanation for why moving to that design would be good or better?

Confusion is based upon Dot + Activation, and the general issue has been that the faster a target activates skills, the more damage they take from Confusion.  Confusion has been adjusted both up and down in the past due to how it interacts with different Raid Bosses.  A slow attacking boss makes confusion bad, a fast one makes confusion amazing.

Yet holistically, the intent of any damaging condition is to apply full value over time.  If Bleed or Burn run their full duration, then the damage component is going to be a predictable value (base skill + modifiers).  The affected target can only interact with the Condi by cleansing it or transmuting it.  Confusion however, has variable damage over time based upon how the target activates skills.  This creates a lack of predictability when looking at the value of Condition damage and tells us why it has been changed so much.

Confusion has always been some form of Dot + Activation, and I think it would be a lot cleaner and more predictable if the Skill Activation consumed the stacks of Confusion and applied the remaining damage.

Example:

Player applies 1 stack of Confusion, say 5 seconds and 200 dmg. 

• It would tick for 40 dmg a second for 5 seconds if the target didn't activate any skills. 
• If they activated a skill after 2 seconds, they would have had 2 dots at 40 dmg and an activation for the remaining 120 dmg. 
• If they activated a skill after 3 seconds they would have had 3 dots at 40 dmg and an activation of 80 dmg.

In the above example, the application of Confusion applies the expected damage regardless of skill activation timing.  This is predictable and easier to balance around than what we have existing.  At the same time, it maintains the 'dmg on skill activation' theme of Confusion.  I would not have Confusion deal damage on cleanse or transmute, only Dot and Skill Activation.

I could see this form of Confusion being managed in two ways; Consume All Stacks, or Consume Oldest Stack.

By consuming all stacks, it weighs the damage more to skill activation, while consuming the single oldest stack, would weigh it more towards the Dot.  The first option would mean Confusion stacks are being applied and consumed very quickly, removing the opportunity for cleanses.  At this moment I think the latter, consuming the oldest stack, is potentially better for PvP and WvW as it allows for cleansing interplay.