The transfusion nerf is a good thing

[Shade.8037]

1 minute ago, Mascarun.7910 said:

If I wanted to play a game where everything was homogenised and class identity was practically nonexistent, I'd have gone back to playing FF14. The argumentation that tranfusion was "too OP" especially in instanced content relies on exaggeration and ignorance of one-shot scenarios that not even transfusion can save you from, but enough about that; if Anet feels that tranfusions is potentially too strong, then there are other ways they could have limited its effect without removing it altogether or even directly nerfing it. They could have put a ICD on the pull effect so that you can only pull allies to safety once per ally per interval (say 60 seconds) or design content that punishes players more severely for going down. I mean, have we forgotten already that the down penalty exists? Going down four times within a minute is a death sentence regardless of transfusion. For what this game considers challenge content, we could easily have a stricter down penalty for CMs that includes damage debuff and longer penalty duration to encourage encounter mastery and discourage reliance on transfusion and other such abilities. Finally, I will close by saying: give scourge better access to stability. At least finish homogenising scourge properly if that's the end goal. 

Absolutely agree. I have no desire for necro to play like other classes, and frankly if they do this I will just play something else. However, if you ARE going to utterly gut the class identity, and strongest element of Scourge heal on the alter of balance, then actually compensate in some way so that those who bother to stay with the class actually can do their job still.

As it is saying this is for balance, then just obliterating the niche the class has without giving in return? That just feels bad.

And again, this will be terrible for running new people and introducing them to mechanics, mess up once? Better enjoy the taste of floor. How many new raiders are gonna just quit after the first raid they spend the entire time on the floor in, while 9 other people play the game for and hour and half.

[Nephalem.8921]

4 hours ago, Xainou.1502 said:

"Selling any raid wing, 9 slots, no experience needed."

It's okay guys, I'm a healscourge.

Actually SC cleared w7 like that within 1:30h after release without knowing any boss mechanic because they had a healscourge that could just rez everyone after a failed mechanic. And i did that too in w6, w7 and eod strikes.

No experience needed indeed. 

[WhiteSmoke.5926]

10 hours ago, Xainou.1502 said:

Wow, can we hire you to give speeches in hospitals and assisted living facilities? Clearly those people just need to try harder.

Seriously get that elitist crap out of here. Not everyone is physically, mentally capable, having a good day or paying 100% attention all the time. And that's fine, this is a game.
Making everyone suffer over this is such a toxic idea.

This is fine, you will die.

Then retry another day until excellence

[A Hamster.2580]

5 hours ago, Shadowpeixera.2918 said:

I cannot fathom at all, a competitive run succeeding because 9 players are dying believing their green death god will save them and trivialize the content. I'm betting that what's really happening is that Scourge is able to heal 2 downed players and save a relatively south run, and that has annoyed Anet because they want to focus their new raids to the top end players.

Nope. The fights where the heal scourge hard carry would end in 20+ resurrects as shown on the meter. It might be 2-3 players going down at a time, but imagine that repeating over and over with the heal scourge negating those repeated down states by spamming transfusion.

5 hours ago, Shadowpeixera.2918 said:

I don't have a horse in this race, but if they're on that idea, why not just create a new competitive PvE/casual PvE split? Why should open world players be punished by the top elite raiders that play a completely different game than us, yet we get balance decisions that cater mostly to them?

Because that would require a lot more work. Open world metas have like a 100% win rate regardless of what balance decisions are being passed. In fact, tell me what open world metas require transfusion to be successful? The players that are being affected are not just top elite raiders, but also players new to raids and strikes and average raiders. Leaving transfusion as is will make it difficult for Anet to create future challenging but balanced end game content so that is why they nerfed it.

 

5 hours ago, Shadowpeixera.2918 said:

It's almost like the bias against Scourge colored people's perception of other classes, because Guardians and Mesmers have been "trivializing mechanics" ever since this game launched. Hell, if anything, top end PvE in GW2 was always trivializing large swats of mechanics, anyone remember CoF P3 speedruns?

The only players who think this is bias against scourge seem to be players that only play scourge. Mesmers used to be able to give distortion to their whole party to skip mechanics and was nerfed. Druids and tempests used to be able to give 10 men might and was nerfed. 0% boon duration chronos used to give enough quickness if stacked while doing top dps and that was nerfed. Etc.

Every time one of these broken overpowered mechanics was nerfed, there was outrage from the "class mains" on the forums complaining just like right now with the scourge transfusion.

[Barraind.7324]

On 9/15/2024 at 2:03 PM, A Hamster.2580 said:

Transfusion's not going to be much help in the hardest encounters anyway because guess what. We can't save you from being oneshot by failing mechanics.

Transfusion is a core mechanic in Cerus LCM as after ~3 (4 if you are very good on stack management) slams in his 10% phase, everything he does, including subsequent slams, will 1 shot you into downed through barrier unless you have toughness or vit gear going.  Which is why early cmcm title runs ran trailblazers dps scourges, and why you still run 1 heal scourge (with a babysitting boon herald) over 2 heal chrono or Chrono + druid. 

 

HScourge has 3 jobs on that fight,  Transfusion, Sand Swell, and Alacrity.

 

Transfusion is one of the two reasons you bring Heal scourge to "the hardest encounters", and is completely outclassed by every other functional healer if you arent needing transfuse + budget portal

Edited Monday at 10:53 PM by Barraind.7324

[Asumita.2174]

Honestly, if one thinks this "git gud or quit" mentality is ok, they are approving elitism. 
If they think they are the chosen one, keep it to themselves, and don't push it to others.  

[XECOR.2814]

The heal numbers are not big enough in competitive gamemodes, not sure about pve.

The f4 on scourge and other shroud#4 skills have big cooldowns because of the port effect of transfusion.

Now that is gone, one would expect all these things to come back but thats too much effort and according to anet's track record, theres a 0% chance of everything to go back in line.

Edited Tuesday at 07:03 AM by XECOR.2814

[Narcemus.1348]

On 9/13/2024 at 7:44 PM, Barraind.7324 said:

You're right, its always good when a spec is completely removed from playability on a whim. 

Healscourge without transfuse pull is a feature-lacking copy of Heal Chrono, combining horrificly bad boon generation, worse CC, less throughput, and a worse portal on top of a gimmicked together weapon set thats seeing MH SWORD as one of its best options, because pressing sword 3 actually does something.  The ONLY thing that keeps that bag of bad utility afloat in organized PvE is the ability to pull bodies on fights where bodies start happening as a result of fight design.

Without transfusion pulls, there is no reason to ever bring Scourge instead of chronomancer.  there is a single reason to ever bring scourge instead of druid (not having another heal chrono player and needing ports). Theres no real reason to bring it over shortbow engi for random bags of utility at that point.  This isnt even the scourge equivalent of not letting mesmer portals be dropped or used if you are in combat, because heal chrono still has the tools to be a top-tier healer without portal.  

You found to problem! Too many people were playing Necromancer over Mesmer. Now they kill the heal Necro people won't have a choice. I know I for one will just delete my heal build and join the big dumb DPS group.

[Kulvar.1239]

5 hours ago, XECOR.2814 said:

The heal numbers are not big enough in competitive gamemodes, not sure about pve.

The f4 on scourge and other shroud#4 skills have big cooldowns because of the port effect of transfusion.

Now that is gone, one would expect all these things to come back but thats too much effort and according to anet's track record, theres a 0% chance of everything to go back in line.

I expect the manifest shade to also be reworked so by default Scourge has a single greater shade that last 15s on a 10s cooldown, 5 targets cap, but shades no longer trigger around the Necromancer.

[borisslav.9026]

On 9/15/2024 at 8:10 PM, A Hamster.2580 said:

Wanting the game to not be trivialized is not elitism.

No, it's not elitism. It's ableism. 

[CafPow.1542]

I honestly think the change is okay in pvp and wvw. In very good hands, this unique skill was extremely good.

 

to also nerf it in pve is super silly tho. Very good grps won‘t be affected, while your average joes party just suffers. After 12 years it was really necessary to now nerf this ability cause for 12 years, the game was clearly to easy.

after this patch, the raid kills will prolly go to 0 for a few weeks huh?

[Narcemus.1348]

13 minutes ago, CafPow.1542 said:

I honestly think the change is okay in pvp and wvw. In very good hands, this unique skill was extremely good.

 

to also nerf it in pve is super silly tho. Very good grps won‘t be affected, while your average joes party just suffers. After 12 years it was really necessary to now nerf this ability cause for 12 years, the game was clearly to easy.

after this patch, the raid kills will prolly go to 0 for a few weeks huh?

I think this is my struggle. It never hurt anything in PvE. No one in my raid group wanted me to play Heal Scourge except for once or twice when we were really struggling to learn the mechanics. After we learned the mechanic heal scourge was dropped like a brick.

Now I have even more reasons to hate WvW. Not only do I find it unfun and troll-like, now it is taking away my niche abilities for "reasons". Hate being punished for a game mode I don't even play.

[Nimon.7840]

1 hour ago, CafPow.1542 said:

I honestly think the change is okay in pvp and wvw. In very good hands, this unique skill was extremely good.

 

to also nerf it in pve is super silly tho. Very good grps won‘t be affected, while your average joes party just suffers. After 12 years it was really necessary to now nerf this ability cause for 12 years, the game was clearly to easy.

after this patch, the raid kills will prolly go to 0 for a few weeks huh?

Lol no. 

People had  -How long has it been? - 5 years to learn raids with heal scourge. And dps tremendously increased so they got even easier. 

If you still can't do them without a scourge don't even try to tell me "but it's good for players to learn" cause you clearly learned nothing, or didn't even bother to learn, because a build like scourge existed. Which is a very clear indicator of this build being absolutely broken good. And shows that the build should go.

Also if you only used F4 to pull people and never used it to actually prevent people from going down, then I have bad news for you: you played healscourge the wrong way. Or you don't understand the concept of a healer. It's to PREVENT people from going down.

Also a healer like scourge doesn't exist in any MMO I've seen or played. And there's a good reason for that: it trivializes most content - which is kinda sad.

Also with the current development we got more or less introduced to the bosses and their mechanics in the story, then we got the normal mode encounter. So anet is already handing everyone the tools to learn the mechanics. And they even reuse mechanics in open world for players to learn. Asking to keep the current iteration of transfusion in the game is like asking to put golden sprinkles on the already served silver tablet.

BUT

With only this change, I have so many questions. For example: why doesn't druid get nerfed as well? It still has search and rescue. Yes that has a rather high cool down (48s). But druid has the elite glyph or spirit as well, which are both AOE rezzes for 5 players. glyph has 60s base cool down in PvE and spirit 90s. With the transfusion change the only great way to revive people on necro will be signet of undeath with 75s cd. But it only revives one player and costs almost 10k health.

But druids rezzes seem to be fine. So why go the lazy approach and only remove the pull (10s cool down btw with alac). And not give something back? Compensation is needed!

And if there are plans to rework scourge or improving it, why not communicate them? Or at least tell us that there's light at the end of the tunnel (next patch)? Or why not implement them in the same patch you are deleting the transfusion pull?

This is the main thing I am "mad" about.

 

[CafPow.1542]

42 minutes ago, Nimon.7840 said:

If you still can't do them without a scourge don't even try to tell me "but it's good for players to learn" cause you clearly learned nothing, or didn't even bother to learn, because a build like scourge existed. Which is a very clear indicator of this build being absolutely broken good. And shows that the build should go.

This is just the „git gud“ argument in facncy words. I never was in a raid and rarely do some strikes every now and then and i play the game since vanilla. And? Am i for some reason not to be taken into account?

if you and your grp don’t fail to any mechanic, then this patch doesn’t affect you at all.

 

42 minutes ago, Nimon.7840 said:

Also if you only used F4 to pull people and never used it to actually prevent people from going down, then I have bad news for you: you played healscourge the wrong way. Or you don't understand the concept of a healer. It's to PREVENT people from going down

Who sais i don’t? I do know that. And btw the patch doesn’t change anything about the healing factor of f4, only the pull. Or i did read it wrong? (Possible)

 

 

for the rest: i don’t care about other healers. But i am in line with you that necro should get something in exchange.

for me i think a trait that changes shades into pure supportive skills in exchange for their damage is overdue. That would be my approach. And maybe a (mainhand)-weapon that does some nice things for healing.

at least from a pure pve pov. In wvw/pvp i understand the transfusion delete as i said already.

in the end i think this change will not hurt raidgroups so much really. But it will hurt healnecros cause there is this one thing only they can do and that’s gone now.

imagine they delete auras from eles. Or guardians can’t share aegis anymore.

 

PS: the last part of my previous comment was a bit sarcastic.

Edited 11 hours ago by CafPow.1542

[Tammuz.7361]

On 9/16/2024 at 6:44 PM, Barraind.7324 said:

Transfusion is one of the two reasons you bring Heal scourge to "the hardest encounters", and is completely outclassed by every other functional healer if you arent needing transfuse + budget portal

This pretty much says it all, class is sadly dead in PvE as a healer without it at the moment.

Except you can delete budget portal part, chrono much better at that anyhow.  So probably just cut scourge for chrono now.

I guess 7 mesmers, 2 rev, and 1 necro, “balance” wasnt acceptable to anet for the hardest encounters, so now its gonna be 8 mesmers 2 rev.  Perhaps next they’ll just nerf herald qDPS and make it 10 mesmer?

“Fun” stuff playing game mode with just 1 class 🙄

Edited 3 hours ago by Tammuz.7361