Rework Greatsword

[GamerToad.9248]

This weapon is only picked cause of its burst skill.

Hundred blades: a selfroot 3,1/2 cast time in 2024 with mediocre damage for the cast.

Whirlwind attack: is fine for the dodge but it could be like axe 5 and allow us to move for ourselves while you cast it.

Bladetrail: is a boomerang that dissappears if the terrain is slightly uneven. I would love this skill would be ground targeted you throw the gs at the ground and a Greatsword be there for a time and if the warrior picks it up it does a small aching slice and refunds a small cd of it.

Rush: it needs to be faster and more aggressive. For example make rush 40% faster and if you reach a enemy you hit them with the back of the sword stunning them for 1 sec.

 

Any other greastsword user in the game seem to be more efficient at it then warrior is and warrior is the weapon master.

[Mungrul.9358]

I always found it odd that Rush had no CC associated with it. I mean yeah, you don't want it usurping Bull's Charge. But adding a little CC would improve the skill, say half that of Bull's Charge. As for what type of CC, maybe stun?

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

4 minutes ago, Mungrul.9358 said:

I always found it odd that Rush had no CC associated with it. I mean yeah, you don't want it usurping Bull's Charge. But adding a little CC would improve the skill, say half that of Bull's Charge. As for what type of CC, maybe stun?

No, then it'll do no damage in competitive play.

I'm game for an immob or pull on blade trail though.

[Mungrul.9358]

1 minute ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

No, then it'll do no damage in competitive play.

Ah dammit, being a predominantly PvE player, I keep forgetting that particular boneheaded decision.
Still can't believe they haven't walked that back.

[GamerToad.9248]

2 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

No, then it'll do no damage in competitive play.

I'm game for an immob or pull on blade trail though.

I love when anet wants to give damage to a cc but not technically they or give it a condi or a flip over skill.

[rainhelm.3827]

4 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

No, then it'll do no damage in competitive play.

I'm game for an immob or pull on blade trail though.

Why not make bladetrail a two phase attack where initial hit now does frontloaded damage and the returning boomerang attack is just a pull (could also be the other way around), coupled with some long overdue fixes to the blade just disappearing when hitting a surface or elevation.

I'd like to continue talking about arcing slice and hundred blades but I have a feeling anytime someone in this forum mentions that latter skill someone in the balance team takes a shot so for the sake of their liver I will cease.

[gyravi.9632]

I would like to see the root in place removed for Greatsword2. They did it already with swordBurst and also guardian sword3 which was even a ranged attack, why not do it on it as well? (Always blue child treatment). And it's stupid behaviour sometimes because after stunning stunning sometimes your character bugs out and face off the opposite direction where your enemy is and so basically you are greatsword2 the air... and you gotta cancel your skill.

About greatsword5, the idea of a stunnor daze attached to it, feels very good. They only problem is, with their new "format" because it will become a CC, they simply will remove all the damage of it, and you will lose a pretty solid damage skill that sometimes when it lands and doesn't bugs too, gets the job done for you.

The other 2 skills and the auto are kinda alright, maybe greatsword4 throw a bit too slow, but okish.

But those are just hopes, we are not guardians let's remember that.

They got the best spear, double damage of warrior's one, it's aoe and it wasn't even looked, just bug fixed immediately because it was a big deal😅. They are clowns indeed.

[Felstalker.3540]

I'll argue Greatsword needs a lot less work than it may seem, since the problems with warrior as a profession are a bit more of an issue than just a weapon choice.

Fix Hundred Blades and Bladetrail into meaningful buttons, done.  Ain't no reason for Whirling Axe to hit so much harder, be a combo finisher while Hundred Blades isn't, hit more targets, and you can move while having increased move speed? 

 

Hundred Blades is the bread and Arcing Slice is the butter.  They're the two buttons of the weapon that have the most mechanical impact on the moment to moment, so we need to fix the bread so it's feeling good because kitten does it not compare to the primary function of other weapons.

[Mungrul.9358]

IF it weren't for the CC damage nerf, I'd say that a compromise for it being rooted would be adding a kind of pull to Hundred Blades.
They've obviously been playing with gravity-type pulls recently, with lots of open world bosses now featuring gradual pulls you have to move in the opposite direction to negate. And something like this on HB would rock.

Make HB a deadly vacuum cleaner.

[Arklite.4013]

Discussions on ways to fix greatsword have been done to death several times over on this forum. There are definitely some pain points and skills that could use modernization, but like another commenter mentioned, the weapon isn't in that bad of shape overall - it would be fine with one or two small changes.

Edited October 1 by Arklite.4013

[cryorion.9532]

25 minutes ago, Arklite.4013 said:

Discussions on ways to fix greatsword have been done to death several times over on this forum. There are definitely some pain points and skills that could use modernization, but like another commenter mentioned, the weapon isn't in that bad of shape overall - it would be fine with one or two small changes.

Yeah, greatsword is still "good old reliable" imo. However, Hundred Blades should be definitely updated because that skill is stuck in pre-PoF era.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 hour ago, Arklite.4013 said:

Discussions on ways to fix greatsword have been done to death several times over on this forum. There are definitely some pain points and skills that could use modernization, but like another commenter mentioned, the weapon isn't in that bad of shape overall - it would be fine with one or two small changes.

Yeah, Blade Trail needs to reflect off of terrain, and SOMETHING needs to be done to 100B. I think the fact that none of us really have a consensus on it is part of why little is done.

On the one hand, removing the root would be nice, but that would require a lot of animation work, which I think is the sticking point on Anet's end.

On the other hand just making it a faster channel would also work, but I wonder if that is also gated by animation work...

[Felstalker.3540]

Quote

On the one hand, removing the root would be nice, but that would require a lot of animation work, which I think is the sticking point on Anet's end.

No need to talk about two different problems.  It doesn't matter if the change would require some animation changes, or if they needed to hire a priest to exorcise the code before they put the change in.  What change does 100 Blades require?  I think removing the root is a good start.  Mechanically, it feels bad.  That mechanical problem should be fixed.  They could make the damage higher and players will still dislike it, they could remove the root and lower the damage and players would instead complain that the fun button doesn't do damage like they want.  Mechanical problems require mechanical solutions.

Now, I can fully understand that Anet has reasons it hasn't done this.  The upcoming Gun buffs screams "We don't have the resources to change anything about the Gun other than the numbers, so take this and I hope it helps for now"

Let them worry about that part.  Our part is to talk about what isn't working and why it's not working.  I spent the last 3 hours with a off hand axe and a greatsword, and just going from whirling axe to 100 blades breaks my brain a little.  Why doesn't it work like whirling axe does? It seems so strange.

Edited October 1 by Felstalker.3540

[Rocker.2906]

Make 100B destroy/reflect projectiles and I'd be happy  

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

17 minutes ago, Felstalker.3540 said:

No need to talk about two different problems.  It doesn't matter if the change would require some animation changes, or if they needed to hire a priest to exorcise the code before they put the change in.  What change does 100 Blades require?  I think removing the root is a good start.  Mechanically, it feels bad.  That mechanical problem should be fixed.  They could make the damage higher and players will still dislike it, they could remove the root and lower the damage and players would instead complain that the fun button doesn't do damage like they want.  Mechanical problems require mechanical solutions.

Now, I can fully understand that Anet has reasons it hasn't done this.  The upcoming Gun buffs screams "We don't have the resources to change anything about the Gun other than the numbers, so take this and I hope it helps for now"

Let them worry about that part.  Our part is to talk about what isn't working and why it's not working.  I spent the last 3 hours with a off hand axe and a greatsword, and just going from whirling axe to 100 blades breaks my brain a little.  Why doesn't it work like whirling axe does? It seems so strange.

In the past 100B hit MUCH harder than Whirling Axe, like twice as hard. They've both been buffed since then, WA more so than 100B. That was the trade off, Axe 5 was more mobile, but did less damage, while 100B was stationary but did lots of damage during an era when quickness reduced attack speeds by more than it currently does.

This is a part of while I personally advocate for just reducing the cast time of 100Blades to 2.5s as that would line up with the old reduced channel time under the old quickness when the current quickness is applied. Reducing it to 2s makes it not require quickness to be effective. At either channel time, even with quickness, the foe would have time to counterplay it in competitive modes.

[Mungrul.9358]

Having predominantly played a hambow for the longest time, the root is definitely the biggest problem with HB.
The whole profession teaches you that to stay still is to die, which means that thanks to muscle memory, it's taken me a ridiculously long time to train myself not to cancel HB by moving as soon as I activate the skill.

Maybe make it so that the cooldown is reduced by the remainder of the channel when you cancel?

Like this:
HB's channel time is 3.5 seconds and its cooldown is 8.
If you cancel the channel after 1 second, then the cooldown should be reduced by 2.5 seconds to 5.5.
If you cancel after 2 seconds, reduce the cooldown by 1.5 seconds to 6.5.

It would certainly help with some of the frustrating whiffery.

Oh, and average out the damage so it's not all backloaded on the final strike.

[Yerlock.4678]

On 9/27/2024 at 5:40 AM, GamerToad.9248 said:

This weapon is only picked cause of its burst skill.

Hundred blades: a selfroot 3,1/2 cast time in 2024 with mediocre damage for the cast.

Whirlwind attack: is fine for the dodge but it could be like axe 5 and allow us to move for ourselves while you cast it.

Bladetrail: is a boomerang that dissappears if the terrain is slightly uneven. I would love this skill would be ground targeted you throw the gs at the ground and a Greatsword be there for a time and if the warrior picks it up it does a small aching slice and refunds a small cd of it.

Rush: it needs to be faster and more aggressive. For example make rush 40% faster and if you reach a enemy you hit them with the back of the sword stunning them for 1 sec.

 

Any other greastsword user in the game seem to be more efficient at it then warrior is and warrior is the weapon master.

Bump

[WingSwipe.3084]

Id suggest we just have the basics of the weapon mended then we look at its performance.

100 Blades needs its cast DRASTICALLY reduced or allow moment while casting. Even then the ability probably needs a mix of both.

Bladetrail could really use an immob, lower CD or more damage.

Rush is fine, I like the tracking improvements they made to it.

Id personally want the triple hit Arc Divider for at least PvE. It was so fun to use and cleave and the change made it lose too much damage that wasnt compensated with the new version.

[Mungrul.9358]

If we're not talking drastic, mechanical changes, I feel like functionally, Rush could do with more visual cues letting the player know its range. I know there's the range indicator underneath skills, but it can be hard to judge at a glance whether Rush will reach a target or not. As to how to implement those cues, maybe holding down the skill before activating it with a release would bring up a range circle?

Disregarding my previous suggestion of CC (because that would remove damage from the skill), mechanically bring its speed closer to that of Bull's Charge or Whirlwind Attack, leaning more heavily into the weapon's role as a mobility one.

[Minh.1892]

On 9/27/2024 at 3:09 PM, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

No, then it'll do no damage in competitive play.

I'm game for an immob or pull on blade trail though.

What if i told you that Rush used to have a knock down back in Alpha-Testing?
You'd german suplex your target around you.

[Lucy.3728]

I always found it odd that I can't move while hundred blades. Mobs move away while I execute it, how dare they!

That's the only reason why GS on warrior is a niche.

But I've complained about that plenty.

(The only other class I play that can't move while doing a weapon skill is Ranger longbow 5 but it at least has a large effect circle.)

Rev is the better warrior. Good GS.

[Smoothpine.1895]

Just now, Lucy.3728 said:

I always found it odd that I can't move while hundred blades. Mobs move away while I execute it, how dare they!

That's the only reason why GS on warrior is a niche.

But I've complained about that plenty.

(The only other class I play that can't move while doing a weapon skill is Ranger longbow 5 but it at least has a large effect circle.)

Rev is the better warrior. Good GS.

It's envious that they got Greatsword on Guardian and Revenant, working functionally well on the first try.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

5 hours ago, Minh.1892 said:

What if i told you that Rush used to have a knock down back in Alpha-Testing?
You'd german suplex your target around you.

Cool story, but in competitive play now it would do no damage, so no thanks.

[Mungrul.9358]

Imagine the outcry if they removed damage-on-hit from any attack that caused a condition.

And this is why the CCnerf adversely affects Warrior more than any other profession, because the profession has the least access to conditions of all, and was designed around control making up for this weakness.

Unfortunately, the current balance team simply don't understand this.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 hour ago, Mungrul.9358 said:

Imagine the outcry if they removed damage-on-hit from any attack that caused a condition.

And this is why the CCnerf adversely affects Warrior more than any other profession, because the profession has the least access to conditions of all, and was designed around control making up for this weakness.

Unfortunately, the current balance team simply don't understand this.

You have to remember that the balance team is lead by an ele main.