Hammer vs Shortbow for power builds needing ranged options?

[Arklite.4013]

Returning after a hot minute and unable to find a real difference in the use cases for these weapons, especially since hammer apparently got buffed not that long ago. It looks like hammer is the pick for sPvP, WvW is build-dependent, but not sure about PvE or OW. For generalized use, what's the merit in picking one over the other? Does it matter or is it basically preference?

[Eekasqueak.7850]

Hammer is pretty good for open world at least, lots of range and cleave for tagging more stuff. On top of decent CC and projectile hate + sustain built in. 

[UncreativeGreen.2019]

2 hours ago, Arklite.4013 said:

Returning after a hot minute and unable to find a real difference in the use cases for these weapons, especially since hammer apparently got buffed not that long ago. It looks like hammer is the pick for sPvP, WvW is build-dependent, but not sure about PvE or OW. For generalized use, what's the merit in picking one over the other? Does it matter or is it basically preference?

Really the only big differences are range 1200 vs 900 and playstyle. Hammer tends to be the more defensive option with the longer range, long evade on 3, aegis and frontal projectile block on 4. That's why you see it more in pvp environments; for the ability to do damage while mitigating incoming damage. Same logic can apply to PVE, but its more rare that you're in those extremely threatening scenario that'd you'd need to cover that niche. If you take hammer in solo pve you're mainly going to be choosing it for flavor or its longer range. (Just be aware that the way the game is structured in group pve that almost all heals and boons will be centered around the boss and ranged becomes more of a liability than a survival method. Sucks that the game has developed that way, but it is what it is. Range=/=safety in group PVE)

As for Short bow, it has the smaller range and almost no defensive qualities at all except for a good knockdown on 5 (which hammer also has) It does however have a better burst on a power build. It can stack more of its skills into a shorter window of time than hammer. This doesn't matter too much in PVE and is more of a pvp positive. The only other thing it really has going for it is the condi's on the weapon. They'll still add to your damage, but as a power build you won't notice them too much. They really don't start to shine till you have a hybrid build or go condi. 

Overall If you're planning to play a power melee build with swords or a GS but just want a ranged swap for 'just in case' I'd go hammer just because it can also fit the category of 'crap I need a block or an extra evade'. It can fill both you ranged and defensive needs of a build if you so choose that you need those tools. Either one works and is ultimately down to personal flavor and playstyle at the end of the day.

Edited September 29 by UncreativeGreen.2019

[Jobber.6348]

Hammer has more sustained damage, longer range, more defensive skills.

Shortbow has lower ranged, more burst damage, and more reliable CC. 

9 hours ago, Arklite.4013 said:

For generalized use, what's the merit in picking one over the other? Does it matter or is it basically preference?

Hammer. Hammer does much more damage from a longer range in open world PvE. Especially for the purpose of tagging enemies for kill credit, as another use has mentioned above. 

[Sifu.9745]

Also, Hammer is much more fun to play than SB.

[HardStuckBronze.2439]

For PvP:

Hammer is great for power builds. 1200 range, good AOE damage, evade, projectile block and cc. I enjoy hammer + sword-sword  or hammer + greatsword on power vindi / herald. It basically replaced staff for me. The projectile block from hammer 4 and the evade on hammer 3 is enough survive and it gives you a ranged damage option 

Shortbow is unique in that skills 2 and 4 can be cast behind you while running away. So if you’re good at about face kiting in and out of range this becomes a really great weapon. Skill 3 can also be channeled while facing an opponent and then you can about face and run away while it fires. So you have really good ability to damage while kiting. I prefer to play shortbow on a condi mallyx build - call to anguish is really good at maximizing your burst on shortbow since the attacks are either AOE or piercing. I’ve been playing spear more lately but shortbow + mace/shield on condi herald worked very well for me. 

—-

For PvE: 

Shortbow on condi quickness herald was really good but I hear spear is god tier but I’m sure for open world shortbow would be just fine if you preferred it to spear 

 

For power damage would recommend sword sword + greatsword on vindi or as power quickness herald 
 

 

Edited October 2 by HardStuckBronze.2439
Shortbow is a hybrid weapon so you can play it on power builds too if you like. I just think mallyx stance really pulls the weapon together and maximizes the effectiveness

[Buran.3796]

For power builds hammer is a better option;  short bow has a nice burst but mainly if you run viper or grieving stats, in pure physical damage builds is not as effective.

Hammer was buffed last March: increasing the casting speed of the auto attack and adjusting the damage;  Colaescence of Ruin was improved and the hitbox is now more consistent; Field of the Mist got instant activation of the anti-projectile effect, aegis cast and release of ranged bolts  against enemies at the end tof the duration; Drop the Hammer changed a lot: went from having a 1.75' cast time which was canceled if you got interrupted or performed other attacks to having a 0.5' cast time in "shoot and forget" mode (the animation calls of the floating hammer continues as before but once you casted it you can follow with other attacks and Drop the Hammer doesn't gets cancelled) AND every time the attack hit an enemy the CoR skill cooldown was reset....   BUT those buffs were nerfed after 4 months of hammer Vindis "overperforming" at MATs and the hammer got nerfs in the damage coeficients, longer cooldowns in Coalescence of Ruin and Field of the Mist and the FotM duration was halved (most of those nerfs were in PvP/WvW game modes).

   Still, hammer is better than short bow at PvP since Sevenshots and Scorchrazor can't be casted against foes you aren't facing (so if they move to your sides or your back you can't cast them) and hammer ratains better range and defensive properties. I still think hammer is good at ranked, but in tournaments and conformed groups the Rev meta is support Ventari, not damage dealers.

   For PvE (instanced content) the meta for power Revs is running mele weapons; short bow is meta in condi builds and the rotations are demanding...   For solo OW PvE I woun't touch power Rev with a barge pole: condi is stronger and safer mele weapons perform the best but short bow works well as backup vs some foes.

[nosleepdemon.1368]

I've been running lots of builds in WvW this week to discover an alternative to Celestial in case the incoming nerfs to boon and condi duration stats are too heavy handed. Hammer has better range, and is slightly better at defence. However Shortbow has a really good burst combo, and I find it easier to use SB #5 for CC than Hammer #5 because it fires in a line. This evening I ran various Herald and Vindi builds with SB or Hammer as my main weapon. I found even with a crit capped power build that I preferred SB/GS Vindi. Range isn't really a big deal since you have so many gap closers.

[Jobber.6348]

9 hours ago, nosleepdemon.1368 said:

I've been running lots of builds in WvW this week to discover an alternative to Celestial in case the incoming nerfs to boon and condi duration stats are too heavy handed. Hammer has better range, and is slightly better at defence. However Shortbow has a really good burst combo, and I find it easier to use SB #5 for CC than Hammer #5 because it fires in a line. This evening I ran various Herald and Vindi builds with SB or Hammer as my main weapon. I found even with a crit capped power build that I preferred SB/GS Vindi. Range isn't really a big deal since you have so many gap closers.

Best build would be the Marauder/Diviners Vindicator build that uses either SB/GS or GS/ Swords. It offers hyper aggression and immense boon uptime with 50% boon duration while being able to cleanse conditions on dodge as well as gain Resolution (which the trait is getting buffs next patch btw). 

I've been using it alongside Sword/Shield GS Herald and am crushing Mithril and Diamond Willbenders because they do not respect my damage and boons simply matching their degeneracy step by step. When Sword 2 gets buffed next patch, I'll expect the fight to be more even with me being less on the defensive and being able to lead with PT Sword 2 bursts that force them to back off and give myself breathing room. 

Another build I've been using is Core Sword/Hammers. I've been a Core Rev roamer for over 5 years now and when EoD first launched, it was hell for me. Back then Hammer was still bad, Staff was bad, and Swords were clunky. With Soto and JW balances bringing new options to the table, this is what I have been running: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PmwAwyJlxQHMPyh1RNMO6hRSfMCKgn3U2KH-DWRYiRHHIcQflSjJQmRQnFQvhgaLABsHeAA-w

Relic slot uses Atrocity, from JW. It's actually quite amazing because it raises your Battle Scars Damage and healing from 64 and 58 to 88 and 66. This may not sound impressive but note this is almost a thousand more damage in an extended fight that cannot be reduced by Toughness, something Power builds struggle with immensely. Also, it increases Enchanted Dagger's Damage and Healing by a more respectable amount, something that helps you both sustain harder AND deal more unreducable damage.

[nosleepdemon.1368]

1 hour ago, Jobber.6348 said:

Best build would be the Marauder/Diviners Vindicator build that uses either SB/GS or GS/ Swords. It offers hyper aggression and immense boon uptime with 50% boon duration while being able to cleanse conditions on dodge as well as gain Resolution (which the trait is getting buffs next patch btw). 

I've been using it alongside Sword/Shield GS Herald and am crushing Mithril and Diamond Willbenders because they do not respect my damage and boons simply matching their degeneracy step by step. When Sword 2 gets buffed next patch, I'll expect the fight to be more even with me being less on the defensive and being able to lead with PT Sword 2 bursts that force them to back off and give myself breathing room. 

Another build I've been using is Core Sword/Hammers. I've been a Core Rev roamer for over 5 years now and when EoD first launched, it was hell for me. Back then Hammer was still bad, Staff was bad, and Swords were clunky. With Soto and JW balances bringing new options to the table, this is what I have been running: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PmwAwyJlxQHMPyh1RNMO6hRSfMCKgn3U2KH-DWRYiRHHIcQflSjJQmRQnFQvhgaLABsHeAA-w

Relic slot uses Atrocity, from JW. It's actually quite amazing because it raises your Battle Scars Damage and healing from 64 and 58 to 88 and 66. This may not sound impressive but note this is almost a thousand more damage in an extended fight that cannot be reduced by Toughness, something Power builds struggle with immensely. Also, it increases Enchanted Dagger's Damage and Healing by a more respectable amount, something that helps you both sustain harder AND deal more unreducable damage.

Cheers for the SS/H build, I was really wanting a go at making it work but I couldn't find anything I was satisfied with. I'll give that a try. I don't have JW so it seems that having access to Atrocity is pretty important. I was trying Salvation/Invocation/Herald.

Edited October 7 by nosleepdemon.1368

[Jobber.6348]

2 hours ago, nosleepdemon.1368 said:

Cheers for the SS/H build, I was really wanting a go at making it work but I couldn't find anything I was satisfied with. I'll give that a try. I don't have JW so it seems that having access to Atrocity is pretty important. I was trying Salvation/Invocation/Herald.

No Atrocity go Zakiros. Essentially the same sustain wise but it provides no additional punch to your lifestealing. If you want a Core Tyria option, use Relic of Evasion for more dodges via Vigor. 

Edited October 7 by Jobber.6348

[Kulvar.1239]

In PvE, Hammer is better for power builds, Shortbow is better for hybrid or condi builds.

In WvW, Hammer is better for its range/defense/AoE, Shortbow is better for damage/single target.

[Jobber.6348]

7 minutes ago, Kulvar.1239 said:

In WvW, Hammer is better for its range/defense/AoE, Shortbow is better for damage/single target.

Shortbow has much better AoE damage. They have nerfed Phase Smash and CoR repeatedly to the point they're not that good anymore, even for Zerging. 

The only benefit of Hammer over Shortbow in WvW is the 1200 range, which is valued for taking out sieges, cannons, oils etc. and the defensive aspect. When a Boonball shoves, the Revenant should be pushing with Mace/Sword. 

[Sereath.1428]

5 hours ago, Jobber.6348 said:

Shortbow has much better AoE damage. They have nerfed Phase Smash and CoR repeatedly to the point they're not that good anymore, even for Zerging. 

The only benefit of Hammer over Shortbow in WvW is the 1200 range, which is valued for taking out sieges, cannons, oils etc. and the defensive aspect. When a Boonball shoves, the Revenant should be pushing with Mace/Sword. 

Yeah I dont get why people like Hammer in WvW.
Its damage is awful. It was nerfed that often just to enforce a different mEtA.
0.91 and 1.0 damage coefficients for Coalescence of Ruin and Phase smash. 💀 Who the kitten is dying to that.
But I guess hammer is a lot easier to play because of its defensive capabilities. Shortbow does require you to be proficient at about facing and simply being more aggressive.

[nosleepdemon.1368]

I put together a longer range variant of power Vindi/GS/SB that switches Shiro for Jalis and SB for Hammer. It's decent - helps you keep out the way of zergs and lolbenders when they don't have a teleport to pull out their butts. Crucially the lack of engage on Jalis is made up for by Hammer's better range. It works pretty nicely, but still SB #5 into #3 and #2 can't be beat. It's just a comfier variation. Obviously with the resolution buffs in Retri I dumped Salvation for now. Jury's out on what it's capable of as everyone I fought today was not paying attention.

Edited October 8 by nosleepdemon.1368

[Jobber.6348]

4 hours ago, Sereath.1428 said:

Yeah I dont get why people like Hammer in WvW.
Its damage is awful. It was nerfed that often just to enforce a different mEtA.
0.91 and 1.0 damage coefficients for Coalescence of Ruin and Phase smash. 💀 Who the kitten is dying to that.
But I guess hammer is a lot easier to play because of its defensive capabilities. Shortbow does require you to be proficient at about facing and simply being more aggressive.

It's good for dueling as a defensive option. 

There are plenty of builds you absolutely do not want to melee until you bait out their attacks and Hammer is excellent for that with the buffed auto which can deal some pretty good damage from long range. Has an evade, an Aegis and a CC that you can plant on yourself to counter aggression.

[Kulvar.1239]

10 hours ago, Jobber.6348 said:

Shortbow has much better AoE damage. They have nerfed Phase Smash and CoR repeatedly to the point they're not that good anymore, even for Zerging. 

The only benefit of Hammer over Shortbow in WvW is the 1200 range, which is valued for taking out sieges, cannons, oils etc. and the defensive aspect. When a Boonball shoves, the Revenant should be pushing with Mace/Sword. 

Is said better AoE, not better AoE damage. I meant it as in a "I can hit more things"