PVP - compare Engi with other classes

[Ale.3280]

I will not go on details because everyone that play engi pvp ranked can see it:

Engi is too weak compared to other classes, there are classes like guardian or warrior that in 2-3 button can stun + lot of strike damage + power defence boon and there is engi that to kill some1 like them have to play like a piano and can't do any error (and many times does't win).

the game should be:

MORE DIFFICULT PLAYSYLE --> MORE POWER CHARACTER

instead we have warrior/guardian/Necro:

EASY PLAYSTYLE --> super power

and Engi:

HARD CLASS --> the weakest of the 9...

 

Engi need some love from Anet, i know Engi mains are low numbers for PVP, but you should consider to power up the classes that are more difficult to play.

That's it, MOTO have spoken!

[coro.3176]

I still play it in PvP, but I feel like I'm putting my team at a huge disadvantage. I land skills, and they do like ~2k damage plus a potential 3k more in condi across ~10s if the opponent doesn't cleanse.

Then I get hit by power builds smacking me for ~7k per hit, and I wonder .. wtf am I doing? Am I 'kitten? We both are equally squishy (because PvP amulets don't allow building tanky), so I am putting myself at a disadvantage by playing condi engi for no benefit.

[Coolster.2536]

In my experience, I always feel like Engi has to choose between dealing damage or surviving. If I build for survivability, I feel like I’m just not contributing in a team fight or watch as my opponent endlessly resets in a 1v1. If I build for damage, I feel like I get one tapped by Catalysts, Willbenders, or Soulbeasts before I get a chance to attack. If I try to do both, I can survive the first burst, but die to the second without dealing any meaningful damage.

I know some of it is just me being bad, but I struggle to find a build on Engi that can compete with specs on other classes.

[Rocker.2906]

While I agree that engi has been weak on average in pvp for a long time, there is the grenade-scrapper build that one shots people from stealth while droping 2 good stuns back to back. If you're looking for some degenerate build yourself, that's the only one that can trade blows with this crazy bursty meta.

I myself had been playing a little with mech+spear and while it is no willbender, it can duel and outplay fine. Where it struggles is in teamfights, where the mecha AI gets all silly

Holo idk about any good builds. Heard about a bruisy playstyle with shortbow but I hate that weapon so much that I cant bring myself to try it

[Alcatraznc.3869]

This is the drawback of having preselected amulet. Granted PvP has demolisher stat I wish is available in PvE and WvW, sometime you want some pieces to be more berserker or other pieces being a bit more knight or cavalier.

 

Point is, between PvP being honestly its own game at this point and the lack of customisation, you are forced to commit into a role heavily and it turns out other class can commit into a said role (for instance DPS) while also having their own class mechanic carrying the supposed other weaker aspect (for instance Necro having basically 3 health bar allowing him to stay on field for longer). 

 

I wouldnt know how to fix that issue (if it even is considered an issue by Anet) since I never touch PvP and never will.

[bethekey.8314]

I actively play around and must dodge specific damage skills against every other class.

There is nothing that comes close on Engi. Maybe "Devastator" (lol) on Spear which requires you to first declare "You're my focus!" then land an elite tier windup dive into melee with 0 other defenses. For comparison, Guard Hammer hits AoE 8ks in a bigger radius (despite tooltip saying less) with a fraction of the cooldown.

We have no agency in fights. Constantly reacting, hoping they mess up, or enduring long enough to outplay and chip them down.

It's extremely eye opening to try other classes and see how much less thought is required for equal results. At this point, their "nerfed" states are equal to or still better than most Engi builds.

Edited October 11 by bethekey.8314

[Ale.3280]

20 hours ago, bethekey.8314 said:

I actively play around and must dodge specific damage skills against every other class.

There is nothing that comes close on Engi. Maybe "Devastator" (lol) on Spear which requires you to first declare "You're my focus!" then land an elite tier windup dive into melee with 0 other defenses. For comparison, Guard Hammer hits AoE 8ks in a bigger radius (despite tooltip saying less) with a fraction of the cooldown.

We have no agency in fights. Constantly reacting, hoping they mess up, or enduring long enough to outplay and chip them down.

It's extremely eye opening to try other classes and see how much less thought is required for equal results. At this point, their "nerfed" states are equal to or still better than most Engi builds.

That's the point!

When i PVP with other classes like warrior, guardian, necro, there is all much simple, but with engi i do a lot of work to be weaker than any newbe guardian in PVP...

I repeat a class with a lot of work to play should be stronger that a simple one (and very simple in some cases).

[Grouchalt.3972]

.

Edited Thursday at 02:37 AM by Grouchalt.3972

[Stalima.5490]

engineer isn't meant to be the most powerful at any specific role because it is one of the most versatile in terms of creating a build, something that would be heavily mitigated if it was given a second weapon set.

[Ale.3280]

6 hours ago, Stalima.5490 said:

engineer isn't meant to be the most powerful at any specific role because it is one of the most versatile in terms of creating a build, something that would be heavily mitigated if it was given a second weapon set.

When i wrote "powerfull" i meant like 2 buttons 15k damage...absurd how some classes can so easily have this damage and the engineer must have a much more difficult playstyle and not even be comparable; it's not a question of versatility or choice of weapons (which is another nice discussion to address) but of difficulty with which certain performances are achieved compared to other classes.

I know that the engineer is a complicated class, we also like it for this, but I would like that once a player knows how to use it well (like a veteran main engi) he can have results in PVP comparable to other classes, instead of undoubtedly being the weak link of the team most of the time.

[Stalima.5490]

3 hours ago, Ale.3280 said:

When i wrote "powerfull" i meant like 2 buttons 15k damage...absurd how some classes can so easily have this damage and the engineer must have a much more difficult playstyle and not even be comparable; it's not a question of versatility or choice of weapons (which is another nice discussion to address) but of difficulty with which certain performances are achieved compared to other classes.

I know that the engineer is a complicated class, we also like it for this, but I would like that once a player knows how to use it well (like a veteran main engi) he can have results in PVP comparable to other classes, instead of undoubtedly being the weak link of the team most of the time.

but engineer can 12k in one button... assuming you had the right conditions with rocket and grenade barrage thats something like 24k in 2 buttons.

 

The big problem is that numbers like these should not even be possible to begin with, I remember when 4k was considered really strong and 8k utter insanity and the health bars have not exactly changed since then.

Edited Thursday at 11:06 AM by Stalima.5490

[Ale.3280]

1 hour ago, Stalima.5490 said:

but engineer can 12k in one button... assuming you had the right conditions with rocket and grenade barrage thats something like 24k in 2 buttons.

Yes, true, but very difficult compared to what many other classes can do.
As an engineer I feel and see that we are not comparable in PVP to other classes; When I play other classes, I myself prefer to target enemy engineers who die quickly and often don't even do much.

 

1 hour ago, Stalima.5490 said:

The big problem is that numbers like these should not even be possible to begin with, I remember when 4k was considered really strong and 8k utter insanity and the health bars have not exactly changed since then.

Agree!