The fact that despite all constant nerfs on spellbreaker, it's still the best option, really tells you about the state of non spellbreaker builds

[Zekent.3652]

About pvp of course, power berserker has been in a sorry state for so long, if you pick defense, you have no damage, something that berserker SHOULD do by baseline, being scary a hitting like a truck, but if you go for strength, you're just gonna get memed, and this nerf on condi zerker really affects power zerker way harder than condi.

Bladesworn, it just got deleted from pvp, everything was done wrong, since the creation of this spec, to the nerfs, this spec should've been a different role, not bruiser #3.

And spear... that thing got so many nerfs and removed features in a few weeks, that there's no point on even using it anymore, anet just destroyed this weapon, not just for spellbreaker, but the whole class, and i guess that's why spellbreaker broke it's spear, ANet is just doing joko's role against sunspears again lol.

Please, stop with the useless buffs, bladesworn, berserker and core, really needs REAL improvements, way beyond numbers changes, specially bladesworn, it's the most anti GW2 spec in the whole game.

[Myror.7521]

@Zekent.3652 actually core warr is more than fine^^. How ever i agree on what you just said for Berserker and Bladesworn. 

The Berserker on itself would be like a easy fix. You only need to do the sweap in and out mechanic baseline instead of bound to a traitline to make Defence Power Berserker shine again (and maybe also Strength Power Berserker). For bladesworn on the other hand ...... it would have been the perfect spec for Roaming maybe If they would have not made it with a sit down now mechanic xP

[WingSwipe.3084]

2 hours ago, Myror.7521 said:

@Zekent.3652 actually core warr is more than fine^^. How ever i agree on what you just said for Berserker and Bladesworn. 

Myror, you cant keep pushing the narrative that "Core is fine" when its really not.

Core is a literal downgrade from SPB in damage, defensives and utility.

Being able to play core is not the same as having a good time with it.

2 hours ago, Myror.7521 said:

The Berserker on itself would be like a easy fix. You only need to do the sweap in and out mechanic baseline instead of bound to a traitline to make Defence Power Berserker shine again (and maybe also Strength Power Berserker).

Zerker and BSW need so much QOL and mechanic reworks that it would need the dedication of the entire balance and dev staff for an entire patch.

We have multi page threads of things that need to be fixed/buffed/improved/un-kittened.

Core really could use some love too, we could use a total overlook for all weapons and improvements to all bursts.

SPB is the only really viable PvP power spec since its still quite bloated with numbers, and if you want a condi variant of warrior you have to endure the mental torture that is Condi Zerker.

Warrior is not in a good place at all, and pretending that any part of it is in an acceptable state is delusional. If Guardian was in the state that Warrior is currently in they would dedicate multiple patches and entire dev cycles to improve the profession immediately.

Edited Thursday at 07:15 AM by WingSwipe.3084

[Myror.7521]

@WingSwipe.3084 nah i know this sounds stupid but i for real think that core warr rn is kinda in a good Spot ^^

This is for example a realy solid supp/sidnode build im using even in ranked rn. (With stormsinger relic of course)

Edited Thursday at 07:36 AM by Myror.7521

[Hotride.2187]

There have been barely any nerfs to SPB in particular. FC CD got upped, rest has not been touched. There isn't much you can nerf there at this point, now that dagger is available to all war builds. You can nerf FC and magebane tether, rest is negligible. I'm the only SPB I see in conquest running any SPB utility, in my case featherfoot grace (which has been buffed by a ton, CD went to 24 sec from 45 sec...). With cleansing ire on defense (or merciless hammer for CC spam builds), you don't even need to run loss aversion for adrenaline generation.

Rest of the nerfs have been (equally) affecting all of war. So no big surprise its state has not improved.

As for what is viable... I think defense is a crap traitline and every war running it makes fighting wars a chore more than anything. It is telling though, that the glue that holds any competitive war build together is a traitline rework that is now 2 years old.

I don't know what you can change, no matter what is added war gameplay remains essentially, survive, burst, survive. It has no teleports, no stealth, no invulns, so the survive part is very straightforward. Evades, blocks, endure pain, plain healing. As for the bursting part... Poop weakness on it and it has no burst potential. So it must invest in resistance (why I run featherfoot grace over endure pain), which locks it into specific traits/traitlines. And even with resistance, how much is the burst really; is it enough to punch through a support? No. And even if the burst was very high, you'll just get targeted and killed (as you have no teleports, stealth, invulns).

Edited Thursday at 08:17 AM by Hotride.2187

[WingSwipe.3084]

17 minutes ago, Hotride.2187 said:

no invulns

18 minutes ago, Hotride.2187 said:

Evades, blocks, endure pain

SPB does it with Full Counter as well.

I personally dont like invulns being in the game, its toxic game design and cheap at that.

[Mungrul.9358]

46 minutes ago, WingSwipe.3084 said:

I personally dont like invulns being in the game, its toxic game design and cheap at that.

Yeah, I can get behind that.

Same goes for Stealth, and to a lesser extent, Blind.
Blind wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't so spammable. It's also capable of completely shutting a Warrior down, as we have less access to targetted AoE attacks then other professions.

It's the only reason Resolution exists, which ticks me off, as Resolution replaced Retaliation, which I much prefer as a game mechanic. "Thorns" have been a part of the genre since the original Diablo.
Resolution shouldn't be a boon at all, but rather an effect linked to Attributes, preferably Toughness, encouraging adding that to your build.

[Kinzu.5820]

If core classes are supposed to meet expectations of alternatives (which they should) needs a huge damage buff, adrenaline gain or endurance boost which includes a possible default heal for burst skills beyond talent slotting. Berserker could likely use the adrenaline boost as well but I haven't played it.

Core warrior can 1v1 but you lose vs anyone trying outside of it while other classes can currently 1v3. @WingSwipe.3084 is correct about core and it's truly pitiful in comparison. Building tanky doesn't really do the job - you end up not having enough uptime with melee to make it worthy.

 

[Kinzu.5820]

1 hour ago, WingSwipe.3084 said:

SPB does it with Full Counter as well.

I personally dont like invulns being in the game, its toxic game design and cheap at that.

Invulns, blinds. These two concepts are OP for most builds and they have been since launch. There's 4 complete class rolls that can build for blinds just to drag you into a guard in WvW to make sure they cannot lose so long as they don't open with a major heal skill. They just have to hit their buttons and there is a cheat that can cause crits to re-apply blinds apparently? I'm not certain on it still but that might be possible.

Warrior, even as SB can fail vs Invuln and blinds if you don't sacrifice winning vs absolutely anything else. :>

If you're the same wingswipe o/ I still hate videogames.

Regards,

Arkaiex.

 

Edited Thursday at 09:45 AM by Kinzu.5820
Sorry for double post lol.

[Mungrul.9358]

Wouldn't it be cool if they binned of Resolution and reverted to Retaliation, then had a trait that triggered it whenever you were affected by a non-damaging condition?
Again, make its damage scale off of toughness, with high values allowing it to dish out more than you receive.

That'd be hilarious, seeing some Thief blind then try to gank you with a high-damage attack, only to one-shot themselves 😄

Edited Thursday at 09:50 AM by Mungrul.9358

[Mungrul.9358]

Hmm, this has got me thinking about another thing that could be a cool Defense trait:

Every time a boon is stripped from you, you also lose a condition. Not time based, just permanent if you trait it.

This is the kind of stuff that needs to be done to Core Warrior to make it and Warrior's e-specs viable again. You need to make attacking the Warrior the last thing you should be considering if you're a medium or light class and not supported.

[WingSwipe.3084]

Did they just remove the PvP forum thread that linked here?

Update:
Seems they did lmao
 

Edited Thursday at 11:39 AM by WingSwipe.3084

[Zekent.3652]

5 minutes ago, WingSwipe.3084 said:

Did they just remove the PvP forum thread that linked here?

Update:
Seems they did lmao
 

What was that post about?

[WingSwipe.3084]

5 minutes ago, Zekent.3652 said:

What was that post about?

Something like "thought-the-meta-will-improve-after-spellbreaker-nerf".

Linked to this thread in something I wrote to make a point a while ago.

Ill just write it again here:

-Imagine having an elite spec that is over performing so ungodly hard that its essentially not beatable conventionally if played semi-competently.

-Imagine that profession having weapons that are completely outdated and desperately need buffs/reworks. But that elite spec is still overperforming so hard it can make the weapons work in spite of this.

-Imagine the profession gets new weapons that actually are good and up to standard of what weapons should be. The weapons are a overtuned but nothing that cant be fixed.

-Now imagine this HEAVILY overperforming elite spec gets a hold of these new amazing weapons and ruins the fun for everyone even more.

-The people who play the profession state the obvious issue of the elite spec being super oppressive and to handle that before balancing the new amazing weapons so we can actually get a fair scope of what the new weapons actually are capable of when not being abused by the super overperforming elite spec.

-The forums where the balance devs look for genuine information have a total kitten-fit and demand the new weapons get gutted, not fixing the overperforming elite spec causing the issue to begin with.

-The people who play the profession zealously plead for people to understand that this is a massive issue caused by the elite spec overperforming on every level and to handle that first so we get a genuine grasp of what the weapon should be capable of when not being abused.

-Balance devs listen to the incorrect feedback of the forums and guts the damage/utility of the new weapons by as much as 40% and nukes the healing potential of the other one.

-Super oppressive elite spec keeps using weapons, now with a little less effectiveness and just goes back to using its previous loadouts which are similarly oppressive (Hammer/dagger+shield).

-Rest of the profession now gets access to use a weapon thats balanced based on the super oppressive elite spec and cant effectively use it anymore. 

-The people who told you this would happen and that the elite spec would still overperform are bitter because the root issue wasnt fixed and the new weapon wasnt balanced fairly.

-No other spears that are overperforming are getting nerfed or even touched.

-The Elite spec thats overperforming is getting used and abused by everyone and their mother for free LP and rewards, community still complains. The profession mains that know what the issue is and are actively getting ignored/scorned laugh at the community for not understanding the basic concept of "cause and effect".

-Super oppressive spec gets even more buffs and the community reach a fever pitch with their complaining about it again.

-3 1 months later after the elite spec truely abused to the point where you cant ignore it anymore as a developer, everything surrounding the overperforming elite spec gets hard nerfed.

-Everything surroundingt the overperforming elite spec gets nerfed and no compensation buffs for the "new" weapon are provided to make it more viable for the rest of the profession and more build stagnation comes into effect.

> You are here in the timeline. <

 

I got 8/10 things right, not clairvoyant but pretty good IMO. 

 

 

Edited Thursday at 11:48 AM by WingSwipe.3084

[draxynnic.3719]

Have you moved the "You are here in the timeline" point? But yeah, pretty much said what I was going to.

I'm guessing part of the 2/10 is that some of the other spears did get nerfed (albeit not as harshly)?

[Rocker.2906]

On 10/24/2024 at 5:16 AM, Hotride.2187 said:

There have been barely any nerfs to SPB in particular. FC CD got upped, rest has not been touched.

What about Cull the Weak, Balanced Stance and the cast time on the heal nerf? Granted, SPB in SPVP is still preferred not only over other warrior specs but over the entire cast, but it WAS nerfed, no point in denying it.  

At this point I feel like the only way to bring it in line with other specs would be to add some kind of trait that nerfed vitality when SPB spec is equiped... I feel like its kit wouldnt be so opressing if it didnt rock 22k+ hp while on berserker gear.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 hour ago, Rocker.2906 said:

What about Cull the Weak, Balanced Stance and the cast time on the heal nerf? Granted, SPB in SPVP is still preferred not only over other warrior specs but over the entire cast, but it WAS nerfed, no point in denying it.  

At this point I feel like the only way to bring it in line with other specs would be to add some kind of trait that nerfed vitality when SPB spec is equiped... I feel like its kit wouldnt be so opressing if it didnt rock 22k+ hp while on berserker gear.

None of that was specifically things from Spellbreaker that innately drives it's performance.

What it needs is some damage moved to berserker, for FC to no longer be a burst skill while no longer requiring adrenaline, and for its attackers insight stats reduced.

[Hotride.2187]

3 hours ago, Rocker.2906 said:

At this point I feel like the only way to bring it in line with other specs would be to add some kind of trait that nerfed vitality when SPB spec is equiped... I feel like its kit wouldnt be so opressing if it didnt rock 22k+ hp while on berserker gear.

Full zerk is at 19k HP. HP pool is mostly irrelevant, unless you want to bring it to something like 12k or lower.

[Yerlock.4678]

On 10/23/2024 at 12:25 PM, Zekent.3652 said:

About pvp of course, power berserker has been in a sorry state for so long, if you pick defense, you have no damage, something that berserker SHOULD do by baseline, being scary a hitting like a truck, but if you go for strength, you're just gonna get memed, and this nerf on condi zerker really affects power zerker way harder than condi.

Bladesworn, it just got deleted from pvp, everything was done wrong, since the creation of this spec, to the nerfs, this spec should've been a different role, not bruiser #3.

And spear... that thing got so many nerfs and removed features in a few weeks, that there's no point on even using it anymore, anet just destroyed this weapon, not just for spellbreaker, but the whole class, and i guess that's why spellbreaker broke it's spear, ANet is just doing joko's role against sunspears again lol.

Please, stop with the useless buffs, bladesworn, berserker and core, really needs REAL improvements, way beyond numbers changes, specially bladesworn, it's the most anti GW2 spec in the whole game.

bumpity. I have messed with every other spec like a crazy person trying to make something work. But aside from gunflame meme, spb is just the most reliable warrior still out there! The other specs need more love to even begin to compare!

[Rocker.2906]

2 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

None of that was specifically things from Spellbreaker that innately drives it's performance.

What it needs is some damage moved to berserker, for FC to no longer be a burst skill while no longer requiring adrenaline, and for its attackers insight stats reduced.

Cull the weak nerf only works when SPB is equiped and everyone was running balanced stance man, cmon...
Granted those hurt other warrior specs too, but as I heard others say before I guess anet targets builds and not specs, which is why it upsets people so much to begin with.

IMO SPB is lots of fun still, but it def will still need more risk introduced to it's playstyle cause it's still dominating spvp. Maybe it's the combination with chrono sup that makes it op and the comp so strong and bunker-y? but I also think anet simply lacks raw data because of the small playerbase still engaged with pvp...

 

 

Edited Friday at 10:52 PM by Rocker.2906

[Captain Crapface.7528]

Berserker still needs a trait to end Berserk manually.

Bladesworn still needs to self-root to use his burst skills.

Spellbreaker is the only warrior elite speck withaout "Go Fvck yourself" mechanic at its forefront. - not a big suprize why its the eternally best option.

[Captain Crapface.7528]

13 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

other spears did get nerfed

deminishing returne on [Solar Storm] damage can't really be called a nerf, as if Willy isn't lobotomized he'll just press spear 2 in place, whilst on top of the target, and have immedtiate damage reward becouse that exploit wasn't touched.

[Zekent.3652]

ANet's balance direction on warrior is just nerfing anything good it has, to the dust.

Speak was nuked, Bladesworn was vanished, not even berserker or core is free from whines and this "balance" philosophy.

But keep it up ANet, keep giving this class more useless buffs.

No wonder why the warrior population has going lower and lower throught the years. fixing the perma stealth obnoxious issue? checking spear willbender? spear herald? nah, just nerf spear warrior to the oblivion, it was bloated, unlike faceroll spear willbender.

[Myror.7521]

@Zekent.3652 the clue is there is no balance Philosophie for Warrior rn thats what they mentioned on Stream cause they do not have any warr enjoyers in their Team xP. 

 

Aside this nerfing Spellbreaker to the lvl of other Specs is a bit foolish since the other Specs are not Bad ether. First off all ..... all Berserker needs is to have the entering and escaping button to be baseline, this would lead to you been able to get a 10% dmg boost from bloody Roar or the Aura shatter trait instead of eternal Champion. Means you get rit of your auto stability just for a more dmg Access means more skill needed for more dmg. For bladesworn however it would need a complete rework at this Point ^^

[WingSwipe.3084]

We wont get any compensation buffs for the current state of warrior, will we...