Human Gods *Spoilers*

[Sun.2036]

@therapite.3645 said:

@Sun.2036 said:

@Maethor.2810 said:

@MVP.7961 said:

@Maethor.2810 said:

@MVP.7961 said:

@Maethor.2810 said:In my eyes, he looks perfectly like a god, especially one that whose light has been "dimmed".

Gods don't need to be flashy. They don't need to look completely inhuman (note: a lot of gods in world mythology are human in appearance and there's plenty of humanoid looking gods in other fantasy movies/tv/games/books) - it's not some sort of prerequisite. Balthazar might look like an oversized Norn but he is an oversized norn that is on fire, with a lovely flame aura bubble around him, giant flaming hounds that were formerly at his side, and a big flaming greatsword hovering next to him where ever he goes that he can wield without even touching it.

Looks like enough of a god to me.

So you agree he is just an oversized Norn? Glad to see someone did. Now we can conclude that Balthazar is indeed an oversized Norn who is an overpowered Elementalist with an attunement to flame.Please note that I did say you can put anyone in a fiery suit and call him Balthazar. This model, as you just described it, is a disappointment.The problem with your logic of mythological beings is that those beings had a backstory that supported their form. Balthazar's backstory does not support his appearance.

"Just an oversized norn"? No. No 'just' about it to me. Does the base of his model look like that? Yes, but there is more to it. I don't see just an oversized norn that is an overpowered fire elementalist. I see a large, imposing figure that is similar in base appearance to a larger norn that has some pretty cool effects around him and some awesome looking armor that makes him an imposing looking figure that I could absolutely say looks like a god of his status, to me.

How does Balthazar's backstory not support his appearance when we don't know much of anything about his backstory? We don't know his origins. We don't know where he comes from. We only know how he arrived on Tyria and have heard of things he has done. There's not enough backstory to determine what he should and shouldn't look like.

This comes down to personal taste, really. Could he be cooler looking? Yes. But I will stay in the camp of 'Gods don't need to look inhuman or overly magical to be defined as a god and Balthazar looks plenty like a god (albeit dimmed) to me'.

And you agreed with my point that his model could have been made much better than, in my humble opinion, the OP Elementalist Norn with fire attunement.

There are plenty of backstories, please do your research.

Back to the main point, ArenaNet's quality is dropping. Come on company! Even if his powers are weak, Balthazar is still a God! You could have made him so much better. He could have been the flaming Lord of kitten garn nammit!

Yes, his model could be better, but I don't think his current model is bad, disappointing, ungodly, or lacking quality. I think he looks pretty cool as is. A difference of opinion here.

I have done plenty of research in my days playing in this universe, thank you. But by all means, please list which backstories of his supposely determine that he should look like some flaming Lord of whatever instead of what was currently determined as their desired appearance. I would love to see which ones you think require him to be more than what he is currently and what he has been shown as in previous statues/artwork. I think this is just a case where you are unhappy with the model, want something you find more bad***.

Which, I don't blame you for, but I don't think any existing lore really does back anything up other than giving the inflated imagination on what he should look like, which was not met with the model we were given.

Did you ignore the fact that they're from the Mists?Also, shaped like a human is fine and all, but the skin color or face should not look like a human being to begin with. They could have gone with his concept art or the armor that we got from the Gem store. Even THAT was much cooler!

He's.... But did you....

He's half the god he used to be.This is an ex-divine being.His light's out and no Supreme Being is home.E's not Blindingly Immortal, e's ah.... resting.Armor's on, but no one's Divinely occupying it at the moment.He's stealing powers because his have gone into Vacation Mode.Balthazar is as Godly as my Cat. He's tough, but he's not one of the pantheon anymore.He is the Pete Best of the Six and now has no fabulous hair powers.

So no. He doesn't have to look like a god anymore. He can look different and not have swirly awesome skin of spooky firey doom or however you want him to look.

Er.. What..?Also, even if he is weak, that does not excuse the fact that a God of a human just looks like an oversized Norn. I return to my point that ANet has a very poor job on his model. Dhuum lost his powers to Grenth yet maintained his form.

@Maethor.2810 said:

@Sun.2036 said:

@Maethor.2810 said:

@MVP.7961 said:

@Maethor.2810 said:

@MVP.7961 said:

@Maethor.2810 said:In my eyes, he looks perfectly like a god, especially one that whose light has been "dimmed".

Gods don't need to be flashy. They don't need to look completely inhuman (note: a lot of gods in world mythology are human in appearance and there's plenty of humanoid looking gods in other fantasy movies/tv/games/books) - it's not some sort of prerequisite. Balthazar might look like an oversized Norn but he is an oversized norn that is on fire, with a lovely flame aura bubble around him, giant flaming hounds that were formerly at his side, and a big flaming greatsword hovering next to him where ever he goes that he can wield without even touching it.

Looks like enough of a god to me.

So you agree he is just an oversized Norn? Glad to see someone did. Now we can conclude that Balthazar is indeed an oversized Norn who is an overpowered Elementalist with an attunement to flame.Please note that I did say you can put anyone in a fiery suit and call him Balthazar. This model, as you just described it, is a disappointment.The problem with your logic of mythological beings is that those beings had a backstory that supported their form. Balthazar's backstory does not support his appearance.

"Just an oversized norn"? No. No 'just' about it to me. Does the base of his model look like that? Yes, but there is more to it. I don't see just an oversized norn that is an overpowered fire elementalist. I see a large, imposing figure that is similar in base appearance to a larger norn that has some pretty cool effects around him and some awesome looking armor that makes him an imposing looking figure that I could absolutely say looks like a god of his status, to me.

How does Balthazar's backstory not support his appearance when we don't know much of anything about his backstory? We don't know his origins. We don't know where he comes from. We only know how he arrived on Tyria and have heard of things he has done. There's not enough backstory to determine what he should and shouldn't look like.

This comes down to personal taste, really. Could he be cooler looking? Yes. But I will stay in the camp of 'Gods don't need to look inhuman or overly magical to be defined as a god and Balthazar looks plenty like a god (albeit dimmed) to me'.

And you agreed with my point that his model could have been made much better than, in my humble opinion, the OP Elementalist Norn with fire attunement.

There are plenty of backstories, please do your research.

Back to the main point, ArenaNet's quality is dropping. Come on company! Even if his powers are weak, Balthazar is still a God! You could have made him so much better. He could have been the flaming Lord of kitten garn nammit!

Yes, his model could be better, but I don't think his current model is bad, disappointing, ungodly, or lacking quality. I think he looks pretty cool as is. A difference of opinion here.

I have done plenty of research in my days playing in this universe, thank you. But by all means, please list which backstories of his supposely determine that he should look like some flaming Lord of whatever instead of what was currently determined as their desired appearance. I would love to see which ones you think require him to be more than what he is currently and what he has been shown as in previous statues/artwork. I think this is just a case where you are unhappy with the model, want something you find more bad***.

Which, I don't blame you for, but I don't think any existing lore really does back anything up other than giving the inflated imagination on what he should look like, which was not met with the model we were given.

Did you ignore the fact that they're from the Mists?Also, shaped like a human is fine and all, but the skin color or face should not look like a human being to begin with. They could have gone with his concept art or the armor that we got from the Gem store. Even THAT was much cooler!

Did you ignore the fact that just because they come from some place within the Mists doesn't mean they shouldn't look humanoid with human skin tone? Especially considering that the human race also comes from somewhere else within the Mists? Stating they are from the Mists like that is the sole reason for why they shouldn't look like a suped-up human kind of falls short here. If your argument is that the beings (demons) created FROM the Mists look drastically different from humans, that still doesn't prove anything considering we have zero evidence that the Six were created from the Mists. Just that they were from some other world other than Tyria.

His model isn't that much different than the concept art. The armor has changed, the helm is still pretty much the same but without the faceplate portion, he has more bulk than the art, and he has lava-looking fire showing between the portions of his armor as well as more places than what the concept art shows. Slap the face place back onto the helmet and you essentially have the same thing with a different armor skin. Granted, not as pretty as the artwork.

Did I not say that looking humanoid is fine? But there should not be such a strong resemblance to, oh I do not know, ANOTHER race? I repeat, he looks like a Norn someone double-clicked to maximize. There is absolutely nothing Godly about him. His model was disappointing, and his appearance was just as disappointing.No one said anything about their creation from the Mists, only that they are from the Mists and lead the human race to Tyria. Your information only supports what I say that these beings were said to 'not be humans'. They were different hence why, for example, Grenth is half-God, and why Kormir is said to have been affected by Abaddon's power due to her humanity whereas Lyssa merely inherited a portion of the power and was unaffected, in contrast to Kormir. The Gods were described to be completely different from humans.As per lore, these Gods are attuned a lot more to their elements than was shown. For example, Melandru is earth-like and green in color with a woody countenance, and has control over all things Earth. The same way Balthazar was a God I expected to have a fiery outlook with a flame that no mortal could hope to come near even in its waning power. That is what constitutes a 'God'. Someone that blinds you, someone that even in his weakened state a human or mortal cannot hope to overcome. Moreover, Balthazar and war are attuned together yet all I see is some angry warlord. I do not see an enraged God. Also, to add to this, Dhuum had remained undefeated by Grenth and still lives. Grenth is a half-God unlike our PC or the NPCs that accompany us. Balthazar is a God equivalent to Dhuum, yet ANet did the injustice of giving him a joke of a model.

[therapite.3645]

@Sun.2036 said:

@therapite.3645 said:

@Sun.2036 said:

@Maethor.2810 said:

@MVP.7961 said:

@Maethor.2810 said:

@MVP.7961 said:

@Maethor.2810 said:In my eyes, he looks perfectly like a god, especially one that whose light has been "dimmed".

Gods don't need to be flashy. They don't need to look completely inhuman (note: a lot of gods in world mythology are human in appearance and there's plenty of humanoid looking gods in other fantasy movies/tv/games/books) - it's not some sort of prerequisite. Balthazar might look like an oversized Norn but he is an oversized norn that is on fire, with a lovely flame aura bubble around him, giant flaming hounds that were formerly at his side, and a big flaming greatsword hovering next to him where ever he goes that he can wield without even touching it.

Looks like enough of a god to me.

So you agree he is just an oversized Norn? Glad to see someone did. Now we can conclude that Balthazar is indeed an oversized Norn who is an overpowered Elementalist with an attunement to flame.Please note that I did say you can put anyone in a fiery suit and call him Balthazar. This model, as you just described it, is a disappointment.The problem with your logic of mythological beings is that those beings had a backstory that supported their form. Balthazar's backstory does not support his appearance.

"Just an oversized norn"? No. No 'just' about it to me. Does the base of his model look like that? Yes, but there is more to it. I don't see just an oversized norn that is an overpowered fire elementalist. I see a large, imposing figure that is similar in base appearance to a larger norn that has some pretty cool effects around him and some awesome looking armor that makes him an imposing looking figure that I could absolutely say looks like a god of his status, to me.

How does Balthazar's backstory not support his appearance when we don't know much of anything about his backstory? We don't know his origins. We don't know where he comes from. We only know how he arrived on Tyria and have heard of things he has done. There's not enough backstory to determine what he should and shouldn't look like.

This comes down to personal taste, really. Could he be cooler looking? Yes. But I will stay in the camp of 'Gods don't need to look inhuman or overly magical to be defined as a god and Balthazar looks plenty like a god (albeit dimmed) to me'.

And you agreed with my point that his model could have been made much better than, in my humble opinion, the OP Elementalist Norn with fire attunement.

There are plenty of backstories, please do your research.

Back to the main point, ArenaNet's quality is dropping. Come on company! Even if his powers are weak, Balthazar is still a God! You could have made him so much better. He could have been the flaming Lord of kitten garn nammit!

Yes, his model could be better, but I don't think his current model is bad, disappointing, ungodly, or lacking quality. I think he looks pretty cool as is. A difference of opinion here.

I have done plenty of research in my days playing in this universe, thank you. But by all means, please list which backstories of his supposely determine that he should look like some flaming Lord of whatever instead of what was currently determined as their desired appearance. I would love to see which ones you think require him to be more than what he is currently and what he has been shown as in previous statues/artwork. I think this is just a case where you are unhappy with the model, want something you find more bad***.

Which, I don't blame you for, but I don't think any existing lore really does back anything up other than giving the inflated imagination on what he should look like, which was not met with the model we were given.

Did you ignore the fact that they're from the Mists?Also, shaped like a human is fine and all, but the skin color or face should not look like a human being to begin with. They could have gone with his concept art or the armor that we got from the Gem store. Even THAT was much cooler!

He's.... But did you....

He's half the god he used to be.This is an ex-divine being.His light's out and no Supreme Being is home.E's not Blindingly Immortal, e's ah.... resting.Armor's on, but no one's Divinely occupying it at the moment.He's stealing powers because his have gone into Vacation Mode.Balthazar is as Godly as my Cat. He's tough, but he's not one of the pantheon anymore.He is the Pete Best of the Six and now has no fabulous hair powers.

So no. He doesn't have to look like a god anymore. He can look different and not have swirly awesome skin of spooky firey doom or however you want him to look.

Er.. What..?Also, even if he is weak, that does not excuse the fact that a God of a human just looks like an oversized Norn. I return to my point that ANet has a very poor job on his model. Dhuum lost his powers to Grenth yet maintained his form.

I was using humor and a bit of paraphrasing from various sketches and comedy references to point out the fact that he isn't the same as when he was all godlike before, and your opinions on how he looks now doesn't change the fact that he looks how he looks. Which is still godlike enough to me. He doesn't have to look like a meteor flaming from the inside to look like a deity-turned-flesh. You don't see an angry God because he isn't a full God anymore, and he's here because he's trying to get more power again or else he would probably look a lot more impressive. Sorry that you're disappointed but he looks just like what he is.

A power hungry ex-deity scrambling for a bit more energy to make up for what he lost. Is he still formidable? Sure. Does he look like he's one of the Six anymore? No. Because he isn't.

[Sun.2036]

@therapite.3645 said:

@Sun.2036 said:

@therapite.3645 said:

@Sun.2036 said:

@Maethor.2810 said:

@MVP.7961 said:

@Maethor.2810 said:

@MVP.7961 said:

@Maethor.2810 said:In my eyes, he looks perfectly like a god, especially one that whose light has been "dimmed".

Gods don't need to be flashy. They don't need to look completely inhuman (note: a lot of gods in world mythology are human in appearance and there's plenty of humanoid looking gods in other fantasy movies/tv/games/books) - it's not some sort of prerequisite. Balthazar might look like an oversized Norn but he is an oversized norn that is on fire, with a lovely flame aura bubble around him, giant flaming hounds that were formerly at his side, and a big flaming greatsword hovering next to him where ever he goes that he can wield without even touching it.

Looks like enough of a god to me.

So you agree he is just an oversized Norn? Glad to see someone did. Now we can conclude that Balthazar is indeed an oversized Norn who is an overpowered Elementalist with an attunement to flame.Please note that I did say you can put anyone in a fiery suit and call him Balthazar. This model, as you just described it, is a disappointment.The problem with your logic of mythological beings is that those beings had a backstory that supported their form. Balthazar's backstory does not support his appearance.

"Just an oversized norn"? No. No 'just' about it to me. Does the base of his model look like that? Yes, but there is more to it. I don't see just an oversized norn that is an overpowered fire elementalist. I see a large, imposing figure that is similar in base appearance to a larger norn that has some pretty cool effects around him and some awesome looking armor that makes him an imposing looking figure that I could absolutely say looks like a god of his status, to me.

How does Balthazar's backstory not support his appearance when we don't know much of anything about his backstory? We don't know his origins. We don't know where he comes from. We only know how he arrived on Tyria and have heard of things he has done. There's not enough backstory to determine what he should and shouldn't look like.

This comes down to personal taste, really. Could he be cooler looking? Yes. But I will stay in the camp of 'Gods don't need to look inhuman or overly magical to be defined as a god and Balthazar looks plenty like a god (albeit dimmed) to me'.

And you agreed with my point that his model could have been made much better than, in my humble opinion, the OP Elementalist Norn with fire attunement.

There are plenty of backstories, please do your research.

Back to the main point, ArenaNet's quality is dropping. Come on company! Even if his powers are weak, Balthazar is still a God! You could have made him so much better. He could have been the flaming Lord of kitten garn nammit!

Yes, his model could be better, but I don't think his current model is bad, disappointing, ungodly, or lacking quality. I think he looks pretty cool as is. A difference of opinion here.

I have done plenty of research in my days playing in this universe, thank you. But by all means, please list which backstories of his supposely determine that he should look like some flaming Lord of whatever instead of what was currently determined as their desired appearance. I would love to see which ones you think require him to be more than what he is currently and what he has been shown as in previous statues/artwork. I think this is just a case where you are unhappy with the model, want something you find more bad***.

Which, I don't blame you for, but I don't think any existing lore really does back anything up other than giving the inflated imagination on what he should look like, which was not met with the model we were given.

Did you ignore the fact that they're from the Mists?Also, shaped like a human is fine and all, but the skin color or face should not look like a human being to begin with. They could have gone with his concept art or the armor that we got from the Gem store. Even THAT was much cooler!

He's.... But did you....

He's half the god he used to be.This is an ex-divine being.His light's out and no Supreme Being is home.E's not Blindingly Immortal, e's ah.... resting.Armor's on, but no one's Divinely occupying it at the moment.He's stealing powers because his have gone into Vacation Mode.Balthazar is as Godly as my Cat. He's tough, but he's not one of the pantheon anymore.He is the Pete Best of the Six and now has no fabulous hair powers.

So no. He doesn't have to look like a god anymore. He can look different and not have swirly awesome skin of spooky firey doom or however you want him to look.

Er.. What..?Also, even if he is weak, that does not excuse the fact that a God of a human just looks like an oversized Norn. I return to my point that ANet has a very poor job on his model. Dhuum lost his powers to Grenth yet maintained his form.

I was using humor and a bit of paraphrasing from various sketches and comedy references to point out the fact that he isn't the same as when he was all godlike before, and your opinions on how he looks now doesn't change the fact that he looks how he looks. Which is still godlike enough to me. He doesn't have to look like a meteor flaming from the inside to look like a deity-turned-flesh. You don't see an angry God because he isn't a full God anymore, and he's here because he's trying to get more power again or else he would probably look a lot more impressive. Sorry that you're disappointed but he looks just like what he is.

A power hungry ex-deity scrambling for a bit more energy to make up for what he lost. Is he still formidable? Sure. Does he look like he's one of the Six anymore? No. Because he isn't.

Yes well you have stated your point, and thank you for your input. I am more concerned about people who wish to discuss Balthazar's model and its disappointment, thank you.

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

Balthazar has always been perceived as a large human. If you look at Kormir, she's a frail old human. If Balthazar can disguise himself as a Mursaat, then he can surely disguise as human or norn. Judging by how Abaddon look, the human gods can be anything.

[ScottBroChill.3254]

yeah, abaddon was big as hell

[MVP.7961]

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:Balthazar has always been perceived as a large human. If you look at Kormir, she's a frail old human. If Balthazar can disguise himself as a Mursaat, then he can surely disguise as human or norn. Judging by how Abaddon look, the human gods can be anything.

Balthazar used Lyssa's mirror to change his appearance. He did not do so from his own magical abilities.

Kormir is a human being. We all know she's a human being who was raised by the Gods and she took Abaddon's place hence her appearance. Grenth is half-God hence his appearance.

Abaddon possesses six eyes. That is not human.

[DeceiverX.8361]

Lmfao.Inb4 outfit goes on sale and we have thousands of Balths running around as player characters.

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

@MVP.7961 said:

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:Balthazar has always been perceived as a large human. If you look at Kormir, she's a frail old human. If Balthazar can disguise himself as a Mursaat, then he can surely disguise as human or norn. Judging by how Abaddon look, the human gods can be anything.

Balthazar used Lyssa's mirror to change his appearance. He did not do so from his own magical abilities.

Kormir is a human being. We all know she's a human being who was raised by the Gods and she took Abaddon's place hence her appearance. Grenth is half-God hence his appearance.

Abaddon possesses six eyes. That is not human.

True that Balthazar used the mirror and that is the point. What if his current image is just another illusion? What if all the gods look like Abaddon, big and ugly?

Kormir is the human god of order, spirit, and truth, thus she cannot deceive us by making herself to look like something else other than human. Every other god is up for deception.

[Jaken.6801]

I kinda have a Wonder Woman deja vu, where Hades was just a weird guy with a mustache..Injustice and the Comics did him much better, than the live action.

It seem like we got the live action Balthazar.

really hope he is just our stepping stone.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

What I'd say to OP has pretty much been said exactly as I would have by Maethor. So skipping that....

@Pixlboy.5296 said:We don't exactly know the true nature of Tyrian gods or true origins of humanity.As far as we can tell humans might have been created on some distant world in image of the gods.

Or and that's a theory I lately really like, Tyrian gods could be just Ascended humans from alien world that brought the rest with them.We all know that you can by some means become god in GW universe (Kormir/or failed Gaheron)

So I don't see anything wrong with the look of Balthazar.Remember also that his supossed to be a shadow of his former self, stripped down from most of his power.That's why we could face him.

Gods are more than just "ascended humans" because they wield indestructible power. In effect from what we know, the gods are but vessels for this power which requires a (probably living) container or would result in global (and then some) annihilation.

Or rather, that is what the Six Gods are. There are other beings both definite and potential that are called gods and if stories of them ring true, are indeed divine. This include but not limited to Koda, Zintl, Amayalli, the Great Dwarf, and Mellaggan.

Gaheron was not even close to becoming a god. Just a very powerful spellcaster. And there is still a mile huge difference between the two.> @MVP.7961 said:

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:Balthazar has always been perceived as a large human. If you look at Kormir, she's a frail old human. If Balthazar can disguise himself as a Mursaat, then he can surely disguise as human or norn. Judging by how Abaddon look, the human gods can be anything.

Balthazar used Lyssa's mirror to change his appearance. He did not do so from his own magical abilities.

Kormir is a human being. We all know she's a human being who was raised by the Gods and she took Abaddon's place hence her appearance. Grenth is half-God hence his appearance.

Abaddon possesses six eyes. That is not human.

Nothing actually says Abaddon has six eyes... His original appearance was human with a six eyed mask, but we never saw him with six eyes. His NF appearance was inhumane because his original body was destroyed and he was - according to gw.dat descriptions - creating a new body out of the Realm of Torment itself.

[MVP.7961]

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

@MVP.7961 said:

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:Balthazar has always been perceived as a large human. If you look at Kormir, she's a frail old human. If Balthazar can disguise himself as a Mursaat, then he can surely disguise as human or norn. Judging by how Abaddon look, the human gods can be anything.

Balthazar used Lyssa's mirror to change his appearance. He did not do so from his own magical abilities.

Kormir is a human being. We all know she's a human being who was raised by the Gods and she took Abaddon's place hence her appearance. Grenth is half-God hence his appearance.

Abaddon possesses six eyes. That is not human.

True that Balthazar used the mirror and that is the point. What if his current image is just another illusion? What if all the gods look like Abaddon, big and ugly?

Kormir is the human god of order, spirit, and truth, thus she cannot deceive us by making herself to look like something else other than human. Every other god is up for deception.

Kormir was never a god. She was a human who was given Abaddon's powers and that is the main reason why she is a Goddess and because she's a human, Abaddon's power effect her drastically. I am guessing you did not play Guild Wars Nightfall. Please do look up the lore in case you have not. Look at Abaddon's form in the Realm of Torment.

That is Abaddon at his weakest, and you'd think Balthazar would be more formidable.

[MVP.7961]

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:Nothing actually says Abaddon has six eyes... His original appearance was human with a six eyed mask, but we never saw him with six eyes. His NF appearance was inhumane because his original body was destroyed and he was - according to gw.dat descriptions - creating a new body out of the Realm of Torment itself.

Yet Abaddon is said to have had wings. What you said adds to the fact that the Six Gods are not human beings (being able to create new body like its nothing). My point here is that ANet has made a horrible representation of Balthazar

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@MVP.7961 said:

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

@MVP.7961 said:

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:Balthazar has always been perceived as a large human. If you look at Kormir, she's a frail old human. If Balthazar can disguise himself as a Mursaat, then he can surely disguise as human or norn. Judging by how Abaddon look, the human gods can be anything.

Balthazar used Lyssa's mirror to change his appearance. He did not do so from his own magical abilities.

Kormir is a human being. We all know she's a human being who was raised by the Gods and she took Abaddon's place hence her appearance. Grenth is half-God hence his appearance.

Abaddon possesses six eyes. That is not human.

True that Balthazar used the mirror and that is the point. What if his current image is just another illusion? What if all the gods look like Abaddon, big and ugly?

Kormir is the human god of order, spirit, and truth, thus she cannot deceive us by making herself to look like something else other than human. Every other god is up for deception.

Kormir was never a god. She was a human who was given Abaddon's powers and that is the main reason why she is a Goddess and because she's a human, Abaddon's power effect her drastically. I am guessing you did not play Guild Wars Nightfall. Please do look up the lore in case you have not. Look at Abaddon's form in the Realm of Torment.

That is Abaddon at his weakest, and you'd think Balthazar would be more formidable.

Abaddon was once a mortal. He too usurped a god and took its place. Just like Grenth and Kormir.

Abaddon's form in the Realm of Torment is not his original appearance. It is like looking at Khilbron as a lich and going "even in life he had draconian wings!"

Abaddon also was not at his weakest then. At least three of the eight seals blocking his power from escaping the Realm of Torment had been destroyed. Even when all eight seals were in place, he had all his power. He just couldn't use it to effectively influence beyond his prison.

@MVP.7961 said:

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:Nothing actually says Abaddon has six eyes... His original appearance was human with a six eyed mask, but we never saw him with six eyes. His NF appearance was inhumane because his original body was destroyed and he was - according to gw.dat descriptions - creating a new body out of the Realm of Torment itself.

Yet Abaddon is said to have had wings. What you said adds to the fact that the Six Gods are not human beings (being able to create new body like its nothing). My point here is that ANet has made a horrible representation of Balthazar

His wings were blue and ethereal by description. To me, it sounded more like Paragon wings in gw1 but blue rather than gold. Whereas Dwayna had feathered wings, more akin to harpies except with blue skin, human feet, and white wings.

Melandru is also said to be bark-covered... But is that because she is a sapient divine humanoid plant or because her godhood gave her bark covered skin?

Ultimately hard to say.

And making a new body for his soul to be housed in is no more inhumane than the M.I.G. asura storyline, forced to become Shiro'ken or Forged, or becoming a lich. Would you say Khilbron was not human? Because we know he was.

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

@MVP.7961 said:

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

@MVP.7961 said:

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:Balthazar has always been perceived as a large human. If you look at Kormir, she's a frail old human. If Balthazar can disguise himself as a Mursaat, then he can surely disguise as human or norn. Judging by how Abaddon look, the human gods can be anything.

Balthazar used Lyssa's mirror to change his appearance. He did not do so from his own magical abilities.

Kormir is a human being. We all know she's a human being who was raised by the Gods and she took Abaddon's place hence her appearance. Grenth is half-God hence his appearance.

Abaddon possesses six eyes. That is not human.

True that Balthazar used the mirror and that is the point. What if his current image is just another illusion? What if all the gods look like Abaddon, big and ugly?

Kormir is the human god of order, spirit, and truth, thus she cannot deceive us by making herself to look like something else other than human. Every other god is up for deception.

Kormir was never a god. She was a human who was given Abaddon's powers and that is the main reason why she is a Goddess and because she's a human, Abaddon's power effect her drastically. I am guessing you did not play Guild Wars Nightfall. Please do look up the lore in case you have not. Look at Abaddon's form in the Realm of Torment.

That is Abaddon at his weakest, and you'd think Balthazar would be more formidable.

Kormir was not given Abaddon's powers. He's the god of secrets, she's of truth. She ascended to godhood and she chose to maintain the human form even though she is now divine without form. And please, don't assume anything you don't know about -- I completed Nightfall and I was there when Kormir ascended to godhood. Your memory is the one inaccurate believing that Kormir becomes the god of secrets.

[MVP.7961]

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@MVP.7961 said:

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

@MVP.7961 said:

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:Balthazar has always been perceived as a large human. If you look at Kormir, she's a frail old human. If Balthazar can disguise himself as a Mursaat, then he can surely disguise as human or norn. Judging by how Abaddon look, the human gods can be anything.

Balthazar used Lyssa's mirror to change his appearance. He did not do so from his own magical abilities.

Kormir is a human being. We all know she's a human being who was raised by the Gods and she took Abaddon's place hence her appearance. Grenth is half-God hence his appearance.

Abaddon possesses six eyes. That is not human.

True that Balthazar used the mirror and that is the point. What if his current image is just another illusion? What if all the gods look like Abaddon, big and ugly?

Kormir is the human god of order, spirit, and truth, thus she cannot deceive us by making herself to look like something else other than human. Every other god is up for deception.

Kormir was never a god. She was a human who was given Abaddon's powers and that is the main reason why she is a Goddess and because she's a human, Abaddon's power effect her drastically. I am guessing you did not play Guild Wars Nightfall. Please do look up the lore in case you have not. Look at Abaddon's form in the Realm of Torment.

That is Abaddon at his weakest, and you'd think Balthazar would be more formidable.

Abaddon was once a mortal. He too usurped a god and took its place. Just like Grenth and Kormir.

Abaddon's form in the Realm of Torment is not his original appearance. It is like looking at Khilbron as a lich and going "even in life he had draconian wings!"

Abaddon also was not at his weakest then. At least three of the eight seals blocking his power from escaping the Realm of Torment had been destroyed. Even when all eight seals were in place, he had all his power. He just couldn't use it to effectively influence beyond his prison.

@MVP.7961 said:

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:Nothing actually says Abaddon has six eyes... His original appearance was human with a six eyed mask, but we never saw him with six eyes. His NF appearance was inhumane because his original body was destroyed and he was - according to gw.dat descriptions - creating a new body out of the Realm of Torment itself.

Yet Abaddon is said to have had wings. What you said adds to the fact that the Six Gods are not human beings (being able to create new body like its nothing). My point here is that ANet has made a horrible representation of Balthazar

His wings were blue and ethereal by description. To me, it sounded more like Paragon wings in gw1 but blue rather than gold. Whereas Dwayna had feathered wings, more akin to harpies except with blue skin, human feet, and white wings.

Melandru is also said to be bark-covered... But is that because she is a sapient divine humanoid plant or because her godhood gave her bark covered skin?

Ultimately hard to say.

And making a new body for his soul to be housed in is no more inhumane than the M.I.G. asura storyline, forced to become Shiro'ken or Forged, or becoming a lich. Would you say Khilbron was not human? Because we know he was.

There are many possibilities. As I said, I am only expressing my view on ANet's poor work on Balthazar's model.

I would say Khilbron is an undead human being as the lore portrayed him to be. Abaddon was an unleashed God. The very fact that you said their forms are a shell highlights how inhumane they are. Yet ANet did not portray that with Balthazar.

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

@MVP.7961 said:

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:Nothing actually says Abaddon has six eyes... His original appearance was human with a six eyed mask, but we never saw him with six eyes. His NF appearance was inhumane because his original body was destroyed and he was - according to gw.dat descriptions - creating a new body out of the Realm of Torment itself.

Yet Abaddon is said to have had wings. What you said adds to the fact that the Six Gods are not human beings (being able to create new body like its nothing). My point here is that ANet has made a horrible representation of Balthazar

I would bet that his current form is but the "portable version" and not the "epic divine version"

[MVP.7961]

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

@MVP.7961 said:

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

@MVP.7961 said:

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:Balthazar has always been perceived as a large human. If you look at Kormir, she's a frail old human. If Balthazar can disguise himself as a Mursaat, then he can surely disguise as human or norn. Judging by how Abaddon look, the human gods can be anything.

Balthazar used Lyssa's mirror to change his appearance. He did not do so from his own magical abilities.

Kormir is a human being. We all know she's a human being who was raised by the Gods and she took Abaddon's place hence her appearance. Grenth is half-God hence his appearance.

Abaddon possesses six eyes. That is not human.

True that Balthazar used the mirror and that is the point. What if his current image is just another illusion? What if all the gods look like Abaddon, big and ugly?

Kormir is the human god of order, spirit, and truth, thus she cannot deceive us by making herself to look like something else other than human. Every other god is up for deception.

Kormir was never a god. She was a human who was given Abaddon's powers and that is the main reason why she is a Goddess and because she's a human, Abaddon's power effect her drastically. I am guessing you did not play Guild Wars Nightfall. Please do look up the lore in case you have not. Look at Abaddon's form in the Realm of Torment.

That is Abaddon at his weakest, and you'd think Balthazar would be more formidable.

Kormir was not given Abaddon's powers. He's the god of secrets, she's of truth. She ascended to godhood and she chose to maintain the human form even though she is now divine without form. And please, don't assume anything you don't know about -- I completed Nightfall and I was there when Kormir ascended to godhood. Your memory is the one inaccurate believing that Kormir becomes the god of secrets.

I did not say she became the Goddess of secret. It is a lore fact that a part of Abaddon's power went to Kormir and the other went to Lyssa.She is a human being who was ascended into Godhood but due to her frailty as a human she is affected by the power she received. It is disappointing that you do not know this lore despite playing Nightfall.

I digress, the topic at hand is the model ANet chose to make for Balthazar. Please stick to this.

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

@MVP.7961 said:It is a lore fact that a part of Abaddon's power went to Kormir and the other went to Lyssa.

I hate to break it to you, but where ever you got that lore from, it is definitely not from Nightfall. That sounds like some historian trying to document the event from a third-, forth-, fifth-hand story. And here I am shaking my head because I was there and that's not what happened.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@MVP.7961 said:There are many possibilities. As I said, I am only expressing my view on ANet's poor work on Balthazar's model.

I would say Khilbron is an undead human being as the lore portrayed him to be. Abaddon was an unleashed God. The very fact that you said their forms are a shell highlights how inhumane they are. Yet ANet did not portray that with Balthazar.

I never said their forms are shells. You're not reading what I'm writing. You're reading what you want to see.

Balthazar's model is almost exactly as the gw1 statue is, incidentally enough, especially the face and helm.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:Kormir was not given Abaddon's powers. He's the god of secrets, she's of truth. She ascended to godhood and she chose to maintain the human form even though she is now divine without form. And please, don't assume anything you don't know about -- I completed Nightfall and I was there when Kormir ascended to godhood. Your memory is the one inaccurate believing that Kormir becomes the god of secrets.

Actually Kormir was given Abaddon's powers. Well, took. She is also called goddess of secrets in post-Nightfall dialogue. Abaddon was always god's of knowledge. Before his fall he was titled god of wisdom, and after his fall he was called god of secrets. Kormir is called goddess of knowledge, truth, and secrets. Though she is referred to as truth most commonly because she is "good knowledge", both are the god of knowledge.

It is never ever said not implied that Koenig chose her form.

@MVP.7961 said:I did not say she became the Goddess of secret. It is a lore fact that a part of Abaddon's power went to Kormir and the other went to Lyssa.She is a human being who was ascended into Godhood but due to her frailty as a human she is affected by the power she received. It is disappointing that you do not know this lore despite playing Nightfall.

I digress, the topic at hand is the model ANet chose to make for Balthazar. Please stick to this.

Lyssa did not take any of Abaddon's power. This isn't the first time that the gods adopted or shifted affiliations.

Nothing says Kormir was frail because she was human. In fact the gods' proclamation would indicate that Kormir could only replace Abaddon as a go's because she was human. If that implication is accurate then all the gods who had replaced a god was once human.

Abaddon was also human. Or at least a mortal. Yet you keep saying he wasn't. It is confirmed canon fact he replaced a prior god of knowledge just as Kormir replaced him.

[MVP.7961]

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:Kormir was not given Abaddon's powers. He's the god of secrets, she's of truth. She ascended to godhood and she chose to maintain the human form even though she is now divine without form. And please, don't assume anything you don't know about -- I completed Nightfall and I was there when Kormir ascended to godhood. Your memory is the one inaccurate believing that Kormir becomes the god of secrets.

Actually Kormir was given Abaddon's powers. Well, took. She is also called goddess of secrets in post-Nightfall dialogue. Abaddon was always god's of knowledge. Before his fall he was titled god of wisdom, and after his fall he was called god of secrets. Kormir is called goddess of knowledge, truth, and secrets. Though she is referred to as truth most commonly because she is "good knowledge", both are the god of knowledge.

It is never ever said not implied that Koenig chose her form.

@MVP.7961 said:I did not say she became the Goddess of secret. It is a lore fact that a part of Abaddon's power went to Kormir and the other went to Lyssa.She is a human being who was ascended into Godhood but due to her frailty as a human she is affected by the power she received. It is disappointing that you do not know this lore despite playing Nightfall.

I digress, the topic at hand is the model ANet chose to make for Balthazar. Please stick to this.

Lyssa did not take any of Abaddon's power. This isn't the first time that the gods adopted or shifted affiliations.

Nothing says Kormir was frail because she was human. In fact the gods' proclamation would indicate that Kormir could only replace Abaddon as a go's

because

she was human. If that implication is accurate then all the gods who had replaced a god was once human.

Abaddon was also human. Or at least a mortal. Yet you keep saying he wasn't. It is confirmed canon fact he replaced a prior god of knowledge just as Kormir replaced him.

Dear Lord and Savior Abaddon, forgive me for I hath sinned! For I keep begging thy people to stick to the topic but I myself fail to.

I clearly recall in the Wiki of Guild Wars 1 and Guild Wars 2, that after Abaddon's fall, Kormir was ascended by the Gods and given the powers of a Goddess. In that article it was also written that Kormir could not absorb the whole of Abaddon's magic (which transformed to truth from secret) and the water aspect was given to Lyssa. It seems this article was altered and changed, but my memory quite clearly remembers this. Also, Kormir got blind by a demon and her determination to seek the truth is what caught the Gods eyes and her ascension, not the fact that she was a human. There was no indication of her being chosen due to her being a human.

There was no information that points out that Abaddon was a human being. There is indeed information of him defeating the God before him, but a lore on Gods fighting and dethroning one another is quite common, so this does not make him a human being automatically. It merely makes Abaddon someone powerful enough to defeat a God and taking his place. It is possible that he may have been mortal, but not a 'human being' from a 'human race'

Once again, I am expressing my disappointment with the ArenaNet's animation and modeling team on screwing up the Gods, and now Balthazar. You know the story and you know how bad it was written and what injustice they did to the Gods. And I am also expressing my disappointment about the Story Writing team for retconning the bejeebers out of the lore, and ignoring so many aspects of the story that it hurts to watch it.Not only am I beginning to hate my own PC, I hate every other character in the story, but that is beyond the point here.Dear Lord, do not touch characters that you cannot give justice to. What kind of nonsense was this story and this animation?

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

@MVP.7961 said:Dear Lord and Savior Abaddon, forgive me for I hath sinned! For I keep begging thy people to stick to the topic but I myself fail to.

This line of discussion is on topic actually. Gods always take the form of the creature worshipping them. Human sees the gods as humanoid because it is easier for them to perceive a divine being by using an image that they are familiar with. If you look at the artistic depiction of the Christian God, for example, he is depicted to be humanoid even though there is no evidence of what he really looks like -- which coincides with the Tyrian human's depiction of their gods when looking their statues. Thus regardless of the gods' actual form, human sees them, or rather, the gods show themselves, to be humanoid.

Once again, I am expressing my disappointment with the ArenaNet's animation and modeling team on screwing up the Gods, and now Balthazar.

It seems that you'd be disappointed regardless of what they do since you have shown here that you are not open to reason.

You know the story and you know how bad it was written and what injustice they did to the Gods. And I am also expressing my disappointment about the Story Writing team for retconning the bejeebers out of the lore, and ignoring so many aspects of the story that it hurts to watch it.

GW1 had no established lore to begin with. It was the community who started creating the lore and ArenaNet simply jump unto the bandwagon. GW1 story was all over the place and the attempt to somehow tie Shiro and the Lich to Abaddon was a real stretch and I personally didn't buy what they are selling, however, the whole experience was great nonetheless.

Not only am I beginning to hate my own PC, I hate every other character in the story, but that is beyond the point here.

"Hate" is such a strong word. Once you decided to hate something, there's really nothing anyone can do at that point.

[MVP.7961]

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

@MVP.7961 said:Dear Lord and Savior Abaddon, forgive me for I hath sinned! For I keep begging thy people to stick to the topic but I myself fail to.

This line of discussion is on topic actually. Gods always take the form of the creature worshipping them. Human sees the gods as humanoid because it is easier for them to perceive a divine being by using an image that they are familiar with. If you look at the artistic depiction of the Christian God, for example, he is depicted to be humanoid even though there is no evidence of what he really looks like -- which coincides with the Tyrian human's depiction of their gods when looking their statues. Thus regardless of the gods' actual form, human sees them, or rather, the gods show themselves, to be humanoid.

Did you seriously utilize the Christian concept of God? I don't follow that concept so let me just toss that out of the window. Also, it is better to not bring in religion into this discussion, even if it is for the sake of comparison.

Once again, I am expressing my disappointment with the ArenaNet's animation and modeling team on screwing up the Gods, and now Balthazar.

It seems that you'd be disappointed regardless of what they do since you have shown here that you are not open to reason.

Well, whether or not I do get disappointed, I will express myself on a relevant forum and discuss it. I am open to reason, which you have not yet presented.

You know the story and you know how bad it was written and what injustice they did to the Gods. And I am also expressing my disappointment about the Story Writing team for retconning the bejeebers out of the lore, and ignoring so many aspects of the story that it hurts to watch it.

GW1 had no established lore to begin with. It was the community who started creating the lore and ArenaNet simply jump unto the bandwagon. GW1 story was all over the place and the attempt to somehow tie Shiro and the Lich to Abaddon was a real stretch and I personally didn't buy what they are selling, however, the whole experience was great nonetheless.

Guild Wars 1 has a story. Anyone with half a brain can understand the story. What is made by the fans is the possibility of a certain backstory of certain characters. It is totally possible for developers to copy a certain idea from their fans and implement it but to say Guild Wars 1 'had no story' would be saying that Guild Wars story writing is untrustworthy from the start, and that would explain the present day poor writing.

Not only am I beginning to hate my own PC, I hate every other character in the story, but that is beyond the point here.

"Hate" is such a strong word. Once you decided to hate something, there's really nothing anyone can do at that point.

I used a word most appropriate about my thoughts. I dislike what ANet has done to my PC. A PC I would like to, for example, write my own lore about. It only adds to the amount of things in their Horrible Messes list.

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

@MVP.7961 said:Did you seriously utilize the Christian concept of God? I don't follow that concept so let me just toss that out of the window. Also, it is better to not bring in religion into this discussion, even if it is for the sake of comparison.

lol, "not bring religion into this discussion" when the whole premise of the discussion is about gods and their worshippers.

Yup, beyond reasonable.

[MVP.7961]

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

@MVP.7961 said:Did you seriously utilize the Christian concept of God? I don't follow that concept so let me just toss that out of the window. Also, it is better to not bring in religion into this discussion, even if it is for the sake of comparison.

lol, "not bring religion into this discussion" when the whole premise of the discussion is about gods and their worshippers.

Yup, beyond reasonable.

I can't possibly imagine the life you live in to think that FICTIONAL and FANTASY story-lines are comparable with real-life religions that people here follow. Not only is it offensive, but also insensitive mainly because not everyone is Christian, and would therefore question your logic behind your statement. Had I not been knowledgeable about what you just said, I would have completely misunderstood your intentions. Furthermore, religion is a sensitive topic, which is why it's better if we do not even bring it up as a comparison. It is hard to tell the tone and intentions of a writer. I hope you understand that.