I main scourge (pvp and pve), and I actually like the delay on the shade attacks.

[reikken.4961]

and by attacks I mean the damaging portion

I like the planning ahead a bit and using a little prediction. It feels very fitting for the class; necro in general is big strong and slow, but it's not so slow as to be unusable. Most delayed AoEs in MOBAs and stuff are actually delayed slightly more, even. I think it feels very right.

Now, make no mistake. I think the nerfs went a little too far for pvp, and I am appalled that pve was nerfed as well (outside of the shade delay). Necro needs buffs now. Mostly for pve. but the shade delay is good, overall power levels aside. The support/defensive portion being delayed isn't as good, but even that is fine if it means slightly more support power elsewhere. Like, I can see when Slothasor's fear is going to hit, so I can precast it by a bit to get the instant cleanse. But activation time is power, so it does mean we need more support power elsewhere.

Necro is in dire need of PvE buffs (and maybe a little for pvp too), and nefarious favor being cut to clearing 1 condition without any other compensation was a bad change, but that's not really the subject of this topic.

[Lexan.5930]

for pve i hate it because now my barrier has a delay on it and i can;t save people in raids fractals any more with it.

I will admit the delay in pvp with it sometimes allows for some interesting 4 hit burst combo's but i would much rather the delay be on F5 and F4 than on absolutley everything

[ElderNewt.5840]

The length in PvE is abit too long (0.25 would be better) in PvP and WvW it's a good delay time imho.My issue is in PvE the delay hurts the team more and with F2 nerfed - Scourge support isn't something worth taking compared to another toon.Even with PvE F2 getting it's original self back.

[Nimon.7840]

@HardRider.2980 said:The length in PvE is abit too long (0.25 would be better) in PvP and WvW it's a good delay time imho.My issue is in PvE the delay hurts the team more and with F2 nerfed - Scourge support isn't something worth taking compared to another toon.Even with PvE F2 getting it's original self back.

There wasnt even a need for it in pve.But yet again. Necro doesnt get its pve/pvp splits

[Pingu.8431]

I main scourge (pve), and I actually don't.

[shox.1586]

hmm main necro too and for pvp is like w/e we knew about this but put that into PVE killed scourge imo,delay is so annoying that i can't play scourge anymore,rolled one renegade to do t4 and pve stuff . . .

[mazut.4296]

The pve delay is pointless and out of place. Revert it already!!!

[intox.6347]

they said that will be better balance split between gamemodes, doesnt look to me :D that delay in pve is crap

[fixit.7189]

That delay is awful in PvE, why wasnt this split between PvP???

[Nimon.7840]

@fixit.7189 said:That delay is awful in PvE, why wasnt this split between PvP???

Same goes for pvp. Ever tried to block an attack with f3 in pvp?Well that doesnt work

[ProtoGunner.4953]

@Nimon.7840 said:

@fixit.7189 said:That delay is awful in PvE, why wasnt this split between PvP???

Same goes for pvp. Ever tried to block an attack with f3 in pvp?Well that doesnt work

Think ahead, you have to anticipate, it's not that the barrier goes away after one femtosecond. It stays for a while, so if you think the enemy will attack, use it. Also not every enemy attack is an insta down.

[Nimon.7840]

@ProtoGunner.4953 said:

@Nimon.7840 said:

@fixit.7189 said:That delay is awful in PvE, why wasnt this split between PvP???

Same goes for pvp. Ever tried to block an attack with f3 in pvp?Well that doesnt work

Think ahead, you have to anticipate, it's not that the barrier goes away after one femtosecond. It stays for a while, so if you think the enemy will attack, use it. Also not every enemy attack is an insta down.

Nice. I think enemy attacks me. I use f3 and get the barrier after his attack. Pretty op dont you think? Right when he sees the barrier he can just back of or hide behind a wall, as long as we have it. Cause you know, we cant hit anything behind walls.

Right now i have to know, what the enemy want to do, before my enemy knows, what he wants to do, to get any benefit from that barrier

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

@ProtoGunner.4953 said:

@Nimon.7840 said:

@fixit.7189 said:That delay is awful in PvE, why wasnt this split between PvP???

Same goes for pvp. Ever tried to block an attack with f3 in pvp?Well that doesnt work

Think ahead, you have to anticipate, it's not that the barrier goes away after one femtosecond. It stays for a while, so if you think the enemy will attack, use it. Also not every enemy attack is an insta down.

There are quite a few attacks that you would want to cushion that single hit with a barrier. Blocking 2k of the 8k hit will completely change the flow of the fight, especially if such a skill gets used when you are already worn down some.

[ProtoGunner.4953]

Well there are, but usually there are a lot of tells and telegraphs, that's how GW2 is made. Of course there are cluttered events in open world, but there it doesn't really matter. In case of uncertainty, spam some barrier skills. I don't think it is the best thing to do, but it's not that bad with this 0.25 or 0.5s delay. I think if it was like this from the beginning no one would complain.

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

Those tells are usually .5 seconds. Which means that by the time you see the start of the animation, it's too late to use the barrier to help keep yourself alive.

[reikken.4961]

The barrier lasts 5 seconds (and doesn't decay over time like it did on release). Just use a little prediction. "Hey, this guy looks like he's going to attack me. I should pop some barrier."

On another note, the fear being delayed also feels cool and fair. Like, "I have to use the interrupt in advance, but I can interrupt someone while I'm attacking." Seems like how the skill should be, ignoring any previous experience with scourge.

[Nimon.7840]

@"reikken.4961" said:The barrier lasts 5 seconds (and doesn't decay over time like it did on release). Just use a little prediction. "Hey, this guy looks like he's going to attack me. I should pop some barrier."

On another note, the fear being delayed also feels cool and fair. Like, "I have to use the interrupt in advance, but I can interrupt someone while I'm attacking." Seems like how the skill should be, ignoring any previous experience with scourge.

Er you notice that you could use f4 while attacking before?

And the f3 barrier and heal is more like: we have to predict, what the enemy will do, before he even considers doing it.

But one thing for wvw rlly is cool.You can cast f1 then while casting press f2 and f5.

And bam: you got your condibomb back. 2 boons corrupted if traited right. 3stacks burning, 1 torment, cripple and the 2 corrupted things.

So for bombing it even got worse in wvw. Even though i noticed, most ppl didnt figure that out yet.

But dor the support aspect, which necro was intended for, that delay is pretty bad

[reikken.4961]

@"Nimon.7840" said:Er you notice that you could use f4 while attacking before?

If you'll notice, I said "ignoring any previous experience with scourge"You're too caught up on how it used to be.Yes, it was nerfed. But forget how it was before. Think about it as it is rather than comparing to how it was.

He's another way to put this. Assuming it's properly adjusted for balance (which I'm guessing I didn't make clear enough in the first post)---ie the slower one is otherwise stronger since speed is part of the power budget---given the choice between instant cast skills and delayed skills, I think it's more fitting for necro to have the delayed skills. "You have to plan ahead, but you're stronger" fits a lot better than "you're weaker, but you're faster".

Again, balance may be off, but that's not what this topic is about.

[CrimsonRise.7650]

It's not too bad after getting used to it, but still f2 isn't all that great as a group cleanse and is waste of life force if you don't use it to convert certain conditions, unless you can generate it pretty fast like in large scale wvw.