Stop complaining about Mirage. Play it instead.

Zawn.9647 · September 15, 2018

@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:
@Zawn.9647 said:why should i play a class that i dont enjoy? just because its OP?

Some people legit play it to learn its weaknesses. They are Learning 2 Play against them by being them for a time being.

not everyone has the patient and the will to play every class just to be able to have a chance to beat them. I agree that you should play the class to know its weak spots and such but NO class should require you to play it to have any clue on how to beat it. mesmer is a pain in the ass to fight against because of teleports, stealths and mesmer spam

Bigpapasmurf.5623 · September 15, 2018

@Zawn.9647 said:
@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:
@Zawn.9647 said:why should i play a class that i dont enjoy? just because its OP?

Some people legit play it to learn its weaknesses. They are Learning 2 Play against them by being them for a time being.

NO class should require you to play it to have any clue on how to beat it.

Actually, in any competitive environment in any MMO this is smart strategy for those looking on how to beat a class. This is actually the smartest strategy you can do. I apologize you cannot see it that way as this is literally Learning to Play.

StabbersTheThird.6053 · September 15, 2018

Alright so here's the problem with Mirage. Mesmer as a whole is acceptable, manageable, duelable. Mirage is not. Because:

You cannot punish them unless they let you. And I don't mean "you are better". I mean "unless they decide to accept a hit".

With Jaunt, it's possible to permanently kite a melee build considering you also have access to cripple, stun, daze, knockback, and so on. Now you have some mini dashes on a low cooldown.

Because of the new evade (Mirage Mirror? Something like that?) it's possible for Mesmer's to evade and lose 0% uptime on whatever they want to do. Compare this to another Evade spec, Daredevil. Evade becomes an ABILITY not an IFRAME. Yes, all evades are "iframes" if you want to get technical but what I mean is you can use any ability you have equipped/available while using your dodge skill. You are the only class that can. You are also an insanely high damage and high disruption class.

Alright, you can permanently kite melee builds and you lose no time with your dodges anymore. Maybe I can kill you with a power build? No. You can trait for reflects on your dodge ability for ranged, and as stated anything melee is just doomed. Perhaps condition damage? You can trait for clones on dodge, and have easy access to plenty of stealth.This makes it possible for the single target conditions to be applied poorly, and for squishier condition builds (Viper, Demolisher) to explode immediately. And again, you don't need a lot. It's unbelievably easy for you to kill the tankiest of players. You are an "insanely high damage and high disruption" class. Maybe if we lock you down? Still no. You can use your dodge while stunned. You also have pretty good stunbreak utilities. It's also entirely possible for you to just dodge them like a normal person. And if it really comes down to it, you have a trait for that too.

You have no real "opportunity to punish" unless you, as the Mirage PLAYER, allow it. And ye, I played one. I consistently won every 1v1, most 1v2s, and finally struggled when outnumbered. How does that make sense? I don't even know how to properly play Mesmer, let alone Mirage. I pressed buttons at random and with only the knowledge of "my dodge is a weapon".

Tl;dr Mirage is too strong because the dodge is not an ability or a down-time evade. It's a straight bonus iframe that can be traited twice more to get even more benefits. I meme about 8s iframe with no drawback (compared to Sword 2, or Thief Dagger Storm), but it comes off too true. There's no drawback to anything that happens to a Mirage. You are punished, as the engaging player, for fighting one at all.

Daishi.6027 · September 15, 2018

It's not to strong if you anticipate the burst mitigating their damage, as well as baiting out dodges. (this works for condi or power, this is achievable with any class, don't even need condi cleanse to kill condi mirage)

Disable auto targeting.Enable promote target.Learn to stow vs blocks.Learn to not waste offensive cooldowns into your opponents defensive cooldowns.

Jaunts have been nerfed, vigor up time has been nerfed, adventure runes have been nerfed.No strong player is having issues, get on that level instead of complaining about something you struggle to beat. You do not need to play something to learn how to fight against it, but you do need some basic knowledge. Nerfs will not carry your ineptitude.

1v1 Mirage is a strong kiter sure, but the game is balanced around 5v5 conquest, not being able to kite someone across the map.

Axl.8924 · September 15, 2018

@Kako.1930 said:
@MikeL.8260 said:
@Kako.1930 said:
@MikeL.8260 said:
@Kako.1930 said:
@MikeL.8260 said:
@Kako.1930 said:
@MikeL.8260 said:Maybe it's just me but for some reason I fairly doupt that it's anything other than "ladder pressure" in ranked speaking when someone comes here and complains about how op a profession is. I'm refering to those people which no doupt are the majority of the whiners or even the absoluteness.

Or maybe it's because you're a mesmer main who likes having the advantage and you're being defensive. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

People who main the top profession of the month always bring out the 'git gud' and 'low tier whining' lingo.

You are too shallow. I'm not. I never changed my class since the day I picked the game up and fun is always at the top of my list. Even when Mesmer was at it's worse I never came here just to complain and whine about it which by the way in case you haven't realized is what tires me, that mentality that players have, first it was Scourge and SB now it's Mirage and no doupt next month will be another.

That's because there are issues. If there weren't issues then people would probably all be complaining about different things. The fact that several strangers agree on the same things while the only ones who don't are the ones who main the problematic profession shows that something isn't right.

There are no issues, expecting something (anything) to be perfect is a mistake. Players create the issues with that mentality and to some degree denial.

Well it's ironic that you should mention denial

Guess I should have had specified it; denial when you don't recognize your own shortcomings and blame everything on the next "op" thing.

Are you trolling or do you believe that necros were completely balanced with, say, revenants last season and anyone who said otherwise just didn't realize their 'shortcomings.' I adapt each season and consider everyone's feedback. Sometimes it is just a skill issue, and sometimes people have a point.

If you take some time to think about it you might discover these points too...

My biggest issue is that even though they balanced scourge the way they did, they didn't give anymore defensives nerfed the support and made them go power because fo dhuumfire.If the dmg was reasonable in spvp and pve with the nerfs but allowed them to have functional defensives it would be fine.Thing is.I'm not ok with the way they nerfed and left mesmer the way it was creating a huge power creep issue that remains today.I think scourge is a mess and still needs some changes.

Its pretty clear to me that a lot of hot era classes also need to be fixed or buffed or whatever, since a lot of them don't function as well as path of fire.Wether it be nerfing elite specs from path of fire and tuning up the hot specs, i don't know, but something has to be done about tempest for instance.

Zawn.9647 · September 15, 2018

@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:
@Zawn.9647 said:
@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:
@Zawn.9647 said:why should i play a class that i dont enjoy? just because its OP?

Some people legit play it to learn its weaknesses. They are Learning 2 Play against them by being them for a time being.

NO class should require you to play it to have any clue on how to beat it.

Actually, in any competitive environment in any MMO this is smart strategy for those looking on how to beat a class. This is actually the smartest strategy you can do. I apologize you cannot see it that way as this is literally Learning to Play.

Let me be more clear... mesmer is the only class that is REQUIRED for me to play so i can beat them... Any other class i have a fair chance of beating if I play good enough. Not with mesmers since they have everything this game has to offer (damage, survival, escape, reset, burst, condi)

Bigpapasmurf.5623 · September 16, 2018

@Zawn.9647 said:
@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:
@Zawn.9647 said:
@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:
@Zawn.9647 said:why should i play a class that i dont enjoy? just because its OP?

Some people legit play it to learn its weaknesses. They are Learning 2 Play against them by being them for a time being.

NO class should require you to play it to have any clue on how to beat it.

Actually, in any competitive environment in any MMO this is smart strategy for those looking on how to beat a class. This is actually the smartest strategy you can do. I apologize you cannot see it that way as this is literally Learning to Play.

Let me be more clear... mesmer is the only class that is

REQUIRED

for me to play so i can beat them... Any other class i have a fair chance of beating if I play good enough. Not with mesmers since they have everything this game has to offer (damage, survival, escape, reset, burst, condi)

Then that makes it a personal l2p issue then. I personally play ghost sniper DE to find its weakness because "I" need help fighting against them. I "REQUIRE" assistance when fighting them. Just because you "REQUIRE" to play it to learn how to play it, doesn't mean anything aside that "YOU" need help fighting them, which again is normal and strategic. Sounds like you are more upset that there is a class you need help beating, which makes no sense as there are thousands of players that need to learn to fight against certain classes.

Zawn.9647 · September 16, 2018

@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:
@Zawn.9647 said:
@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:
@Zawn.9647 said:
@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:
@Zawn.9647 said:why should i play a class that i dont enjoy? just because its OP?

Some people legit play it to learn its weaknesses. They are Learning 2 Play against them by being them for a time being.

NO class should require you to play it to have any clue on how to beat it.

Actually, in any competitive environment in any MMO this is smart strategy for those looking on how to beat a class. This is actually the smartest strategy you can do. I apologize you cannot see it that way as this is literally Learning to Play.

Let me be more clear... mesmer is the only class that is

REQUIRED

for me to play so i can beat them... Any other class i have a fair chance of beating if I play good enough. Not with mesmers since they have everything this game has to offer (damage, survival, escape, reset, burst, condi)

Then that makes it a personal l2p issue then. I personally play ghost sniper DE to find its weakness because "I" need help fighting against them. I "REQUIRE" assistance when fighting them. Just because you "REQUIRE" to play it to learn how to play it, doesn't mean anything aside that "YOU" need help fighting them, which again is normal and strategic. Sounds like you are more upset that there is a class you need help beating, which makes no sense as there are thousands of players that need to learn to fight against certain classes.

i need help beating deadeyes as well... but at least i can beat them every now and then if I play with LOS, etc...mesmer has high damage, high defense, high mobility, disengage... and the list goes on. if you think mesmer is fine and in a good place, if you cant see that mesmers has so much more going on for them then engineers, necros, elementalists, etc... then there's nothing to else to discuss. have a nice day and keep playing mesmer ;)

Bigpapasmurf.5623 · September 16, 2018

@Zawn.9647 said:
@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:
@Zawn.9647 said:
@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:
@Zawn.9647 said:
@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:
@Zawn.9647 said:why should i play a class that i dont enjoy? just because its OP?

Some people legit play it to learn its weaknesses. They are Learning 2 Play against them by being them for a time being.

NO class should require you to play it to have any clue on how to beat it.

Actually, in any competitive environment in any MMO this is smart strategy for those looking on how to beat a class. This is actually the smartest strategy you can do. I apologize you cannot see it that way as this is literally Learning to Play.

Let me be more clear... mesmer is the only class that is

REQUIRED

for me to play so i can beat them... Any other class i have a fair chance of beating if I play good enough. Not with mesmers since they have everything this game has to offer (damage, survival, escape, reset, burst, condi)

Then that makes it a personal l2p issue then. I personally play ghost sniper DE to find its weakness because "I" need help fighting against them. I "REQUIRE" assistance when fighting them. Just because you "REQUIRE" to play it to learn how to play it, doesn't mean anything aside that "YOU" need help fighting them, which again is normal and strategic. Sounds like you are more upset that there is a class you need help beating, which makes no sense as there are thousands of players that need to learn to fight against certain classes.

i need help beating deadeyes as well... but at least i can beat them every now and then if I play with LOS, etc...mesmer has high damage, high defense, high mobility, disengage... and the list goes on. if you think mesmer is fine and in a good place, if you cant see that mesmers has so much more going on for them then engineers, necros, elementalists, etc... then there's nothing to else to discuss. have a nice day and keep playing mesmer ;)

tbh I also didnt say they were worse off than engi's, necros and eles. Necros and eles are the worst classes to make comparisons to...might as well have added rev's to that. Engi (Holo) are in a good place as they can do a lot themselves.

Condi mirage is def over-performing, there's no denying that. DPS mirage, if not running the cookie cutter 1 shot build is also in a good place. People keep assuming that everyone runs meta. That every condi mirage runs the same thing, every DPS runs the same thing, every warrior runs the same thing....etc. If you actually look, its the meta thats overperforming based on the traits/abilities available in the order they are available. I do play mirage, I can't deny that, however I also don't run meta. I dont run sword, I dont run EM or IH, I dont run mantras and I dont run condi stats. Most of the complaints are assuming the meta builds are being run. So instead of complaining about a whole class due to a trait or ability or to the "MIGHT" have...either complain about the trait itself (and not the mirage as a player) or complain about the meta build associated with it.

Edit: I only play mesmer in WvW, im PvP its either vanilla engi, daredevil or condi soulbeast so Im not speaking from a WvW main standpoint but a PvP standpoint from playing one of my PvP classes.

Math.5123 · September 16, 2018

@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:
@Zawn.9647 said:
@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:
@Zawn.9647 said:
@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:
@Zawn.9647 said:
@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:
@Zawn.9647 said:why should i play a class that i dont enjoy? just because its OP?

Some people legit play it to learn its weaknesses. They are Learning 2 Play against them by being them for a time being.

NO class should require you to play it to have any clue on how to beat it.

Actually, in any competitive environment in any MMO this is smart strategy for those looking on how to beat a class. This is actually the smartest strategy you can do. I apologize you cannot see it that way as this is literally Learning to Play.

Let me be more clear... mesmer is the only class that is

REQUIRED

for me to play so i can beat them... Any other class i have a fair chance of beating if I play good enough. Not with mesmers since they have everything this game has to offer (damage, survival, escape, reset, burst, condi)

Then that makes it a personal l2p issue then. I personally play ghost sniper DE to find its weakness because "I" need help fighting against them. I "REQUIRE" assistance when fighting them. Just because you "REQUIRE" to play it to learn how to play it, doesn't mean anything aside that "YOU" need help fighting them, which again is normal and strategic. Sounds like you are more upset that there is a class you need help beating, which makes no sense as there are thousands of players that need to learn to fight against certain classes.

i need help beating deadeyes as well... but at least i can beat them every now and then if I play with LOS, etc...mesmer has high damage, high defense, high mobility, disengage... and the list goes on. if you think mesmer is fine and in a good place, if you cant see that mesmers has so much more going on for them then engineers, necros, elementalists, etc... then there's nothing to else to discuss. have a nice day and keep playing mesmer ;)

tbh I also didnt say they were worse off than engi's, necros and eles. Necros and eles are the worst classes to make comparisons to...might as well have added rev's to that. Engi (Holo) are in a good place as they can do a lot themselves.

Condi mirage is def over-performing, there's no denying that. DPS mirage, if not running the cookie cutter 1 shot build is also in a good place. People keep assuming that everyone runs meta. That every condi mirage runs the same thing, every DPS runs the same thing, every warrior runs the same thing....etc. If you actually look, its the meta thats overperforming based on the traits/abilities available in the order they are available. I do play mirage, I can't deny that, however I also don't run meta. I dont run sword, I dont run EM or IH, I dont run mantras and I dont run condi stats. Most of the complaints are assuming the meta builds are being run. So instead of complaining about a whole class due to a trait or ability or to the "MIGHT" have...either complain about the trait itself (and not the mirage as a player) or complain about the meta build associated with it.

Edit: I only play mesmer in WvW, im PvP its either vanilla engi, daredevil or condi soulbeast so Im not speaking from a WvW main standpoint but a PvP standpoint from playing one of my PvP classes.

It's the core fundamentals of Mirage that's broken though. Mirage cloak, the ability to dodge while stunned with no investment. Safe stomps and ress'. Then you have abilities that are overperforming, such as axe 3. The scepter IH build that has started to come around is so horrible to play against, the amount of clones generated from scepter 2 (while also being a block) is kinda absurd.

That being said, core mesmer is partly to blame, the already high uptime on iFrames coupled with everything mirage got is what nullifies most counterplay.

Bigpapasmurf.5623 · September 16, 2018

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:
@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:
@Zawn.9647 said:
@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:
@Zawn.9647 said:
@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:
@Zawn.9647 said:
@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:
@Zawn.9647 said:why should i play a class that i dont enjoy? just because its OP?