Death judgement 25k single hit damage

[babazhook.6805]

@Jace al Thor.6745 said:

@FyzE.3472 said:

@Jace al Thor.6745 said:

@FyzE.3472 said:

@brannigan.9831 said:One shots should not be a part of any game. Stop defending it. Its bad gameplay and the vast majority of people hate it.Try it yourself? You will see that it is far from ONE. There is a whole ritual that needs to be performed beforehand. If you can not block/reflect/dodge/LOS it, may be you being in silver is the problem? Maybe?

So you are ok with GS Mesmer burst?

Did you read the title, my friend?

Aye. I was just curious since you were ok with DE one shots if you were ok with Mesmer “one shots”

The difference is that the person at the end of a DJ has much more warning and much more time to react than is a person on the end of that mesmer spike. The DJ shot has a much longer setup time and has far more in the way of tells along with more ways to counter. I personally would have no issues with the mesmer burst if it could be blocked, reflected dodged, be made immune from, countered with LOS , countered by moving inside a group of people, blocked by blades of grass all with a sign over my head telling me that burst coming, along with a sound and a full second plus to react when it coming with a purple beam added.

[Velran.1052]

To those comparing killshot to death judgement, you forgot that thief literally sits in stealth permanently following you around and there's fuck all you can do about it. And then you have to dodge a skill with 3/4 sec cast time (minus ping) that can come at literally anytime, Usually when you're fighting something else. And if you fail? Shadowstep away and re stealth.

[Aza.2105]

@Imperadordf.2687 said:

Except ALL RIFLE SKILLS OF DEADEYE has red lasers or shiny-red projectiles you can see easily and dodge.

That isn't character animation. That is a special effect. If death's judgement does so much damage then why would red lasers or shiny red projectiles matter when you are dead?

And Death’s Judgement has voice tells too, such as “One shot, one kill.” - “This is the end.” - “It’s too late to run.” I can swear I didn’t get hit by DJ once when I wasn’t stunned. L2P issues mostly.

The sound clip doesn't always play. Also sometimes when it plays, nothing happens afterwards. So I'm not sure why you would bring this up when its not even a visual animation.

[Jace al Thor.6745]

@babazhook.6805 said:

@Jace al Thor.6745 said:

@FyzE.3472 said:

@Jace al Thor.6745 said:

@FyzE.3472 said:

@brannigan.9831 said:One shots should not be a part of any game. Stop defending it. Its bad gameplay and the vast majority of people hate it.Try it yourself? You will see that it is far from ONE. There is a whole ritual that needs to be performed beforehand. If you can not block/reflect/dodge/LOS it, may be you being in silver is the problem? Maybe?

So you are ok with GS Mesmer burst?

Did you read the title, my friend?

Aye. I was just curious since you were ok with DE one shots if you were ok with Mesmer “one shots”

The difference is that the person at the end of a DJ has much more warning and much more time to react than is a person on the end of that mesmer spike. The DJ shot has a much longer setup time and has far more in the way of tells along with more ways to counter. I personally would have no issues with the mesmer burst if it could be blocked, reflected dodged, be made immune from, countered with LOS , countered by moving inside a group of people, blocked by blades of grass all with a sign over my head telling me that burst coming, along with a sound and a full second plus to react when it coming with a purple beam added.

A flying purple GS isn’t a tell? The same arguement you’re using for DJ being fine is the same for Mesmer being fine.The only part of Mesmer burst that can’t be blocked is the Gs bounce, shatters and jaunt are blockable.Stab counters MoDSo the argument that you should have a stun break and dodge saved literally is the same thing to counter GS burst. You can’t say one is fine but not the other.

[Elxdark.9702]

@Velran.1052 said:To those comparing killshot to death judgement, you forgot that thief literally sits in stealth permanently following you around and there's kitten all you can do about it. And then you have to dodge a skill with 3/4 sec cast time (minus ping) that can come at literally anytime, Usually when you're fighting something else. And if you fail? Shadowstep away and re stealth.

exactly! then u become a 4vs5 for another 20 seconds.

[babazhook.6805]

@Jace al Thor.6745 said:

@babazhook.6805 said:

@Jace al Thor.6745 said:

@FyzE.3472 said:

@Jace al Thor.6745 said:

@FyzE.3472 said:

@"brannigan.9831" said:One shots should not be a part of any game. Stop defending it. Its bad gameplay and the vast majority of people hate it.Try it yourself? You will see that it is far from ONE. There is a whole ritual that needs to be performed beforehand. If you can not block/reflect/dodge/LOS it, may be you being in silver is the problem? Maybe?

So you are ok with GS Mesmer burst?

Did you read the title, my friend?

Aye. I was just curious since you were ok with DE one shots if you were ok with Mesmer “one shots”

The difference is that the person at the end of a DJ has much more warning and much more time to react than is a person on the end of that mesmer spike. The DJ shot has a much longer setup time and has far more in the way of tells along with more ways to counter. I personally would have no issues with the mesmer burst if it could be blocked, reflected dodged, be made immune from, countered with LOS , countered by moving inside a group of people, blocked by blades of grass all with a sign over my head telling me that burst coming, along with a sound and a full second plus to react when it coming with a purple beam added.

A flying purple GS isn’t a tell? The same arguement you’re using for DJ being fine is the same for Mesmer being fine.The only part of Mesmer burst that can’t be blocked is the Gs bounce, shatters and jaunt are blockable.Stab counters MoDSo the argument that you should have a stun break and dodge saved literally is the same thing to counter GS burst. You can’t say one is fine but not the other.

You picked out ONE tell and ignored all of the others. I gave you a list of tells , not just the one. If DJ was JUST a purple beam you would have an argument. Note DJ against a person NOT marked is just a beam but the person not marked will not get hit for 25k. A mark is a little symbol over your head that allows you a lot of time to ready for that shot.

Same too with the ways to counter. Jaunt and the others you mentioned are not blocked by blades of grass, they can not be countered by moving into a group of friends, they can not be reflected. When a person gives a LIST of advantages as comparison, you do not pick one item out of the list and say "see they are all the same".

[babazhook.6805]

@Aza.2105 said:

@Imperadordf.2687 said:

Except

ALL RIFLE SKILLS OF DEADEYE

has red lasers or shiny-red projectiles you can see easily and dodge.

That isn't character animation. That is a special effect. If death's judgement does so much damage then why would red lasers or shiny red projectiles matter when you are dead?

And Death’s Judgement has voice tells too, such as “One shot, one kill.” - “This is the end.” - “It’s too late to run.” I can swear I didn’t get hit by DJ once when I wasn’t stunned. L2P issues mostly.

The sound clip doesn't always play. Also sometimes when it plays, nothing happens afterwards. So I'm not sure why you would bring this up when its not even a visual animation.

I am not sure what you mean about the animation. That beam appears BEFORE the bullet hits. It does not appear after you are hit. As example take p/d two on thief. It an animation as well with a sort of net that appears. When the thief shoots that you can see the net incoming and dodge or sidestep before it hits. Same with that beam. If it strikes you the bullet comes AFTER the beam, see the beam dodge and no bullet hits.

The further the thief from you the more time you have to dodge.

[Aza.2105]

@"babazhook.6805" said:

A mark is a little symbol over your head that allows you a lot of time to ready for that shot.

A mark is a special effect that is ambiguous. Having a mark doesn't mean something will happen shortly afterwords, it means something CAN happen. So a player is no longer reacting to this skill, they are "GUESSING". Its similar to the frustration players would get in old school mmorpg pvp that relied heavily on RNG.

[Imperadordf.2687]

@Aza.2105 said:

@Imperadordf.2687 said:

Except

ALL RIFLE SKILLS OF DEADEYE

has red lasers or shiny-red projectiles you can see easily and dodge.

That isn't character animation. That is a special effect. If death's judgement does so much damage then why would red lasers or shiny red projectiles matter when you are dead?

What kind of argument is that? Let me tell you the same thing about any burst build.

If Coalescence of Ruin does so much damage why would a giant ruined-ground effect matter when you are dead?If MesmerGS combo does so much damage why would a purple greatsword coming at you matter when you are dead?See how weird it sounds?

And Death’s Judgement has voice tells too, such as “One shot, one kill.” - “This is the end.” - “It’s too late to run.” I can swear I didn’t get hit by DJ once when I wasn’t stunned. L2P issues mostly.

The sound clip doesn't always play. Also sometimes when it plays, nothing happens afterwards. So I'm not sure why you would bring this up when its not even a visual animation.

Nothing happens? Well if you consider a flying red projectile with a laser pointed at your head nothing it’s not my problem.

I am pretty sure we are talking about dodging Death’s Judgement and tells help, a lot. Whether it’s a visual or voice tell.

[Regon Phoenix.8215]

@babazhook.6805 said:KILLshot

Damage level 1 damage: 949 (2.25)?Damage Level 2 damage: 1,160 (2.75)?Damage Level 3 damage: 1,371 (3.25)?PiercesCombo Finisher: Physical ProjectileRange: 1,500

Deaths Judgment

Damage: 696 (1.65)?Damage bonus per stack: 20%Revealed (3s): You cannot stealthCombo Finisher: Physical ProjectileRange: 1,500

Killshot hits much harder base. In order to get DJ into killshot range , full malice stacks needed and one must kneel to make the shot. Just as Malificient 7 can be used to maximize damage on a DJ , there are traits that increase kill shot damage. (burst mastery ,Berserkers power)

As example , at 7 malice stacks the DE thief gets 21 percent bonus damage to the DJ. Berserkers Power gives that same 21 percent bonus damage to a kill shot. The base damage of a Kill shot is MUCH higher then a DJ meaning the only thing that brings DJ ahead is the bonus off the kneel. Note that while a Kill shot warrior can switch off his target and maintain the SAME high level of damage, a DJ thief will lose damage if they switch targets. Note a Killshot warrior has a shot that pierces and has an esier time making the shot unblockable.

So the FACT is yes a Killshot warrior can make a single shot and take someone out with that single shot. One does not need 25k damage to single shot another. The OP is continously moving the Goalposts. The reason DJ will hit harder then a killshot is not because DJ does more damage then KS. it due to other factors and bonuses not directly linked to Killshot (such as executioner , lead attacks, signet use on assassins and so on) which play a role in all thief attacks by design.

Done testing myself. Both with identical amulets, sigils and traits for maximum damage output.Killshot against heavy golem - critical for 6000Killshot against light golem - critical for 7400Death judgement against heavy golem - critical for 12kDeath judgement against light golem - critical for 16k

Warrior don't have stealth, warrior don't have infinite mobility, warrior can't spam Killshot. So warrior in no way, shape or form can dish out this much damage with a single ability.

[babazhook.6805]

@Aza.2105 said:

@"babazhook.6805" said:

A mark is a little symbol over your head that allows you a lot of time to ready for that shot.

A mark is a special effect that is ambiguous. Having a mark doesn't mean something will happen shortly afterwords, it means something CAN happen. This brings the skill in the realm of "guessing".

No it is not guessing. The mark is above your head. I am not guessing it there. This means I can ready for incoming. WHEN the shot occurs you will see the beam just like any tell which gives you the time needed to react. You in effect are getting two warnings. One that you have been selected for a shot. One when that shot made. If you burned off all your dodges and counters after seeing that mark go on above your head it on you.

[Aza.2105]

@Imperadordf.2687 said:

If Coalescence of Ruin does so much damage why would a giant ruined-ground effect matter when you are dead?

Coalescence of Ruin has a VERY clear, telling animation. And it also has a very visible travel time. I've never seen ANYONE complain about it in spvp. WvW might be different since you are surrounded by a blob.

[Aza.2105]

@"babazhook.6805" said:

No it is not guessing. The mark is above your head. I am not guessing it there. This means I can ready for incoming. WHEN the shot occurs you will see the beam just like any tell which gives you the time needed to react. You in effect are getting two warnings. One that you have been selected for a shot. One when that shot made. If you burned off all your dodges and counters after seeing that mark go on above your head it on you.

So when you are marked do you automatically get shot shortly afterwards or does the thief player "choose" when they will shoot?

[Aza.2105]

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@babazhook.6805 said:KILLshot

Damage level 1 damage: 949 (2.25)?Damage Level 2 damage: 1,160 (2.75)?Damage Level 3 damage: 1,371 (3.25)?PiercesCombo Finisher: Physical ProjectileRange: 1,500

Deaths Judgment

Damage: 696 (1.65)?Damage bonus per stack: 20%Revealed (3s): You cannot stealthCombo Finisher: Physical ProjectileRange: 1,500

Killshot hits much harder base. In order to get DJ into killshot range , full malice stacks needed and one must kneel to make the shot. Just as Malificient 7 can be used to maximize damage on a DJ , there are traits that increase kill shot damage. (burst mastery ,Berserkers power)

As example , at 7 malice stacks the DE thief gets 21 percent bonus damage to the DJ. Berserkers Power gives that same 21 percent bonus damage to a kill shot. The base damage of a Kill shot is MUCH higher then a DJ meaning the only thing that brings DJ ahead is the bonus off the kneel. Note that while a Kill shot warrior can switch off his target and maintain the SAME high level of damage, a DJ thief will lose damage if they switch targets. Note a Killshot warrior has a shot that pierces and has an esier time making the shot unblockable.

So the FACT is yes a Killshot warrior can make a single shot and take someone out with that single shot. One does not need 25k damage to single shot another. The OP is continously moving the Goalposts. The reason DJ will hit harder then a killshot is not because DJ does more damage then KS. it due to other factors and bonuses not directly linked to Killshot (such as executioner , lead attacks, signet use on assassins and so on) which play a role in all thief attacks by design.

Done testing myself. Both with identical amulets, sigils and traits for maximum damage output.Killshot against heavy golem - critical for 6000Killshot against light golem - critical for 7400Death judgement against heavy golem - critical for 12kDeath judgement against light golem - critical for 16k

Warrior don't have stealth, warrior don't have infinite mobility, warrior can't spam Killshot. So warrior in no way, shape or form can dish out this much damage with a single ability.

Also don't forget:

Kill Shot has a 1 1/4th cast time, while deaths judgement has a 3/4 cast time.

[babazhook.6805]

@Aza.2105 said:

@"babazhook.6805" said:

No it is not guessing. The mark is above your head. I am not guessing it there. This means I can ready for incoming. WHEN the shot occurs you will see the beam just like any tell which gives you the time needed to react. You in effect are getting two warnings. One that you have been selected for a shot. One when that shot made. If you burned off all your dodges and counters after seeing that mark go on above your head it on you.

So when you are marked do you automatically get shot shortly afterwards or does the thief player "choose" when they will shoot?

I said when I get marked I know a am being set up to be attacked. I do not have to know WHEN that attack will happen because WHEN it does there another seperate tell which is that beam and sound. I am getting an extra warning over and above the TELL from other single attacks where there no mark.

If I get marked and choose to use all my dodges blocks and the like battling another or just randomly dodging, then it on me if I burned off all those counters for a shot I know will come my way. I already stated this once, and do not know why I have to repeat it.

[Aza.2105]

@babazhook.6805 said:

I said when I get marked I know a am being set up to be attacked.

So you are guessing then.

If I get marked and choose to use all my dodges blocks and the like battling another or just randomly dodging, then it on me if I burned off all those counters for a shot I know will come my way.

Yes, except this isn't a 1v1 game. There will be potentially 4 other players targeting you to make you use those dodges and stun breakers.

[Imperadordf.2687]

@Aza.2105 said:

@Imperadordf.2687 said:

If Coalescence of Ruin does so much damage why would a giant ruined-ground effect matter when you are dead?

Coalescence of Ruin has a VERY clear, telling animation. And it also has a very visible travel time. I've never seen ANYONE complain about it in spvp. WvW might be different since you are surrounded by a blob.

You picked what would make you look “right” and responded to it.

You said “Why would red particle effects matter when you are already dead?”. AndI responded to it by copying it and changing it for another skill with a great tell. I already know CoR has a big tell.

Coalescence of Ruin has a VERY clear, telling animation.Sounds like something that Death’s Judgement doesn’t have... Oh wait~

DJ red-laser and projectile effects appear before the initial shot, and reveals the Deadeye before the shot gets executed aswell. So you have BIG tells coming at you and if you are still not dodging, well, the problem isn’t DJ, it’s you.

[babazhook.6805]

@Aza.2105 said:

@babazhook.6805 said:

I said when I get marked I know a am being set up to be attacked.

So you are guessing then.

If I get marked and choose to use all my dodges blocks and the like battling another or just randomly dodging, then it on me if I burned off all those counters for a shot I know will come my way.

Yes, except this isn't a 1v1 game. There will be potentially 4 other players targeting you to make you use those dodges and stun breakers.

No I am NOT guessing. Can you read?

The DJ shot has a tell. When I see that beam I KNOW the shot coming in. This is not a guess. If you are guessing when that shot is coming in rather then looking for the tells then YOU are guessing. It no wonder you die if you are just randomly dodging.

Look for the BEAM.

That beam precedes the shot by about 3/4s of a second PLUS travel time of bullet depending on range. A simple dodge when the beam seen and the bullet misses. This is not guessing.

[Aza.2105]

@Imperadordf.2687 said:

DJ red-laser and projectile effects appear before the initial shot, and reveals the Deadeye before the shot gets executed aswell. So you have BIG tells coming at you and if you are still not dodging, well, the problem isn’t DJ, it’s you.

Does the laser line have a animation?

[Jace al Thor.6745]

@babazhook.6805 said:

@Jace al Thor.6745 said:

@babazhook.6805 said:

@Jace al Thor.6745 said:

@FyzE.3472 said:

@Jace al Thor.6745 said:

@FyzE.3472 said:

@"brannigan.9831" said:One shots should not be a part of any game. Stop defending it. Its bad gameplay and the vast majority of people hate it.Try it yourself? You will see that it is far from ONE. There is a whole ritual that needs to be performed beforehand. If you can not block/reflect/dodge/LOS it, may be you being in silver is the problem? Maybe?

So you are ok with GS Mesmer burst?

Did you read the title, my friend?

Aye. I was just curious since you were ok with DE one shots if you were ok with Mesmer “one shots”

The difference is that the person at the end of a DJ has much more warning and much more time to react than is a person on the end of that mesmer spike. The DJ shot has a much longer setup time and has far more in the way of tells along with more ways to counter. I personally would have no issues with the mesmer burst if it could be blocked, reflected dodged, be made immune from, countered with LOS , countered by moving inside a group of people, blocked by blades of grass all with a sign over my head telling me that burst coming, along with a sound and a full second plus to react when it coming with a purple beam added.

A flying purple GS isn’t a tell? The same arguement you’re using for DJ being fine is the same for Mesmer being fine.The only part of Mesmer burst that can’t be blocked is the Gs bounce, shatters and jaunt are blockable.Stab counters MoDSo the argument that you should have a stun break and dodge saved literally is the same thing to counter GS burst. You can’t say one is fine but not the other.

You picked out ONE tell and ignored all of the others. I gave you a list of tells , not just the one. If DJ was JUST a purple beam you would have an argument. Note DJ against a person NOT marked is just a beam but the person not marked will not get hit for 25k. A mark is a little symbol over your head that allows you a lot of time to ready for that shot.

Same too with the ways to counter. Jaunt and the others you mentioned are not blocked by blades of grass, they can not be countered by moving into a group of friends, they can not be reflected. When a person gives a LIST of advantages as comparison, you do not pick one item out of the list and say "see they are all the same".

Seeing that blades of grass can in fact impair clones from reaching the target yeah I’d say the only difference is reflect as I’ve seen people in groups be hit by DJ’s multiple times.

But I honestly think you’re missing my point. How is DJ ok when it requires less skills to use vs GS Mesmer, fresh air ele, etc that can also “one shot” yet those need nerfed? Whether it’s OP or not(I’m not saying it is, just unhealthy) the ability to do that much damage with minimal skill input is not good for the game. They all need nerfed but so do passive defenses. I would have liked to see a lot more done in this regard with the upcoming patch but we won’t. You will still be able to spam confounding suggestions(to an extent) which is a big reason GS Mesmer burst is high. It holds the hand of bad-average players by literally doing the work for them rather than making the player work and set up the burst. DJ is no different. Mark target, kneel, build stacks, wait a bit more and boom players dead. Especially when combined with other traits and utilities.

My point is that while DJ has counter play it’s simply unhealthy for the game. The same for scourge. Being able to spam AoE’s that cover a point in a point based game mode is bad design. There’s a lot that needs balanced in the game and DJ is one of them. At least with backstab and heart seeker you have to be in melee range and set up the backstab.

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

@Imperadordf.2687 said:DJ red-laser and projectile effects appear before the initial shot, and reveals the Deadeye before the shot gets executed aswell. So you have BIG tells coming at you and if you are still not dodging, well, the problem isn’t DJ, it’s you.

BIG TELL , is the warrior's Killshots , 1 1/4 secDeath's Judgment with quickness (Be Quick or Be Killed - trait) its 0,35 secSpotter's Shot (immobilize -cant dodge) > Three Round Burst > DJ

OP , just avoid PvP for some time :: pRather than getting burned and running for other games , just join some WvWvW , hopefully they will alocate resources in the next x-pack for PvE+WvWvW , or whatever the majority of the population is :P

[Imperadordf.2687]

@Aza.2105 said:

@Imperadordf.2687 said:

DJ red-laser and projectile effects appear before the initial shot, and reveals the Deadeye before the shot gets executed aswell. So you have BIG tells coming at you and if you are still not dodging, well, the problem isn’t DJ, it’s you.

Does the laser line have a animation?

OK let me quickly explain what happens.

Deadeye Marks the target.A big Mark icon appears on top of the target’s head.Marked target has some red particles around them like an aura.Deadeye casts Death’s Judgement.If Deadeye is stealthed, he reveals himself, and appears from shadows.A big laser is seen between the target and the Deadeye.A voice is heard, something like “pwwf”.(Sometimes) Deadeye says some lines before casting DJ.Then a red projectile starts to move from the Deadeye.The projectile hits, and deals damage depending on how much Malice stacks the Deadeye has.

[babazhook.6805]

@Jace al Thor.6745 said:

@babazhook.6805 said:

@Jace al Thor.6745 said:

@babazhook.6805 said:

@Jace al Thor.6745 said:

@FyzE.3472 said:

@Jace al Thor.6745 said:

@FyzE.3472 said:

@"brannigan.9831" said:One shots should not be a part of any game. Stop defending it. Its bad gameplay and the vast majority of people hate it.Try it yourself? You will see that it is far from ONE. There is a whole ritual that needs to be performed beforehand. If you can not block/reflect/dodge/LOS it, may be you being in silver is the problem? Maybe?

So you are ok with GS Mesmer burst?

Did you read the title, my friend?

Aye. I was just curious since you were ok with DE one shots if you were ok with Mesmer “one shots”

The difference is that the person at the end of a DJ has much more warning and much more time to react than is a person on the end of that mesmer spike. The DJ shot has a much longer setup time and has far more in the way of tells along with more ways to counter. I personally would have no issues with the mesmer burst if it could be blocked, reflected dodged, be made immune from, countered with LOS , countered by moving inside a group of people, blocked by blades of grass all with a sign over my head telling me that burst coming, along with a sound and a full second plus to react when it coming with a purple beam added.

A flying purple GS isn’t a tell? The same arguement you’re using for DJ being fine is the same for Mesmer being fine.The only part of Mesmer burst that can’t be blocked is the Gs bounce, shatters and jaunt are blockable.Stab counters MoDSo the argument that you should have a stun break and dodge saved literally is the same thing to counter GS burst. You can’t say one is fine but not the other.

You picked out ONE tell and ignored all of the others. I gave you a list of tells , not just the one. If DJ was JUST a purple beam you would have an argument. Note DJ against a person NOT marked is just a beam but the person not marked will not get hit for 25k. A mark is a little symbol over your head that allows you a lot of time to ready for that shot.

Same too with the ways to counter. Jaunt and the others you mentioned are not blocked by blades of grass, they can not be countered by moving into a group of friends, they can not be reflected. When a person gives a LIST of advantages as comparison, you do not pick one item out of the list and say "see they are all the same".

Seeing that blades of grass can in fact impair clones from reaching the target yeah I’d say the only difference is reflect as I’ve seen people in groups be hit by DJ’s multiple times.

But I honestly think you’re missing my point. How is DJ ok when it requires less skills to use vs GS Mesmer, fresh air ele, etc that can also “one shot” yet those need nerfed? Whether it’s OP or not(I’m not saying it is, just unhealthy) the ability to do that much damage with minimal skill input is not good for the game. They all need nerfed but so do passive defenses. I would have liked to see a lot more done in this regard with the upcoming patch but we won’t. You will still be able to spam confounding suggestions(to an extent) which is a big reason GS Mesmer burst is high. It holds the hand of bad-average players by literally doing the work for them rather than making the player work and set up the burst. DJ is no different. Mark target, kneel, build stacks, wait a bit more and boom players dead. Especially when combined with other traits and utilities.

My point is that while DJ has counter play it’s simply unhealthy for the game. The same for scourge. Being able to spam AoE’s that cover a point in a point based game mode is bad design. There’s a lot that needs balanced in the game and DJ is one of them. At least with backstab and heart seeker you have to be in melee range and set up the backstab.

The simple fact is that as I mentioned were the damage to be pushed downwards on power across all classes Bunker would take over and Condition build dominate. That Scourge is countered by that DE simply because the DE is able to do enough damage at range.

If you are dropping the damage of power so there no one shot kills possible (which seems to be your argument of "unhealthy gameplay") then every trait on every profession, condition and power both ALONG with innate advanatges such as 8k out of the get more health has to be looked at. The classes like THIEF and Elementalist NEED to do more damage out of the gate in order to overcome that 8k advantage. If they are doing more damage out of the gate against a class with with 8000 more health than the impact of that damage on a class with 11k health out of the gate will be even higher.

You are talking about an entirely new game.

[otto.5684]

@"polvere.2805" said:I call it CC and burst executed by 2 players. Your fault for not having stunbreak/condi cleans and dodge. Death's judgement is quite telegraphed, you see the red laser coming to you. Sure 20 k burst counterable by using a basic ability that everyone has (let's not talk about the spam of vigor that almost all classes can upkeep, the ones that can't have invuln or other defensives). Also you were aware of the thief presence because he needs at least 15 secs to get to maximum malice stacks in order to do so much damage, and he need to have you marked (which put a big debuff on you with a really clear animation). I only see "i was not paying attention so i got killed" in your post.

I could make an entire list about why it's not OP but it's not worth the time. I think the previous statement is enough. Oh i don't play deadeye btw, and when i see one i usually /dance on his corpse. It's just such a bad elite spec power wise, but well it's fun to play against peeps like you :)

The fun thing is that in the game there are a lot of strong burst that leave almost 0 counterplay and here you are complaining about one of the easiest to avoid.

While I do not think DE by any means OP, these sentence: "Your fault for not having stunbreak/condi cleans and dodge," "The fun thing is that in the game there are a lot of strong burst that leave almost 0 counterplay and here you are complaining about one of the easiest to avoid," are good summary of current state of sPvP since PoF release.

[Jace al Thor.6745]

@babazhook.6805 said:

@Jace al Thor.6745 said:

@babazhook.6805 said:

@Jace al Thor.6745 said:

@babazhook.6805 said:

@Jace al Thor.6745 said:

@FyzE.3472 said:

@Jace al Thor.6745 said:

@FyzE.3472 said:

@"brannigan.9831" said:One shots should not be a part of any game. Stop defending it. Its bad gameplay and the vast majority of people hate it.Try it yourself? You will see that it is far from ONE. There is a whole ritual that needs to be performed beforehand. If you can not block/reflect/dodge/LOS it, may be you being in silver is the problem? Maybe?

So you are ok with GS Mesmer burst?

Did you read the title, my friend?

Aye. I was just curious since you were ok with DE one shots if you were ok with Mesmer “one shots”

The difference is that the person at the end of a DJ has much more warning and much more time to react than is a person on the end of that mesmer spike. The DJ shot has a much longer setup time and has far more in the way of tells along with more ways to counter. I personally would have no issues with the mesmer burst if it could be blocked, reflected dodged, be made immune from, countered with LOS , countered by moving inside a group of people, blocked by blades of grass all with a sign over my head telling me that burst coming, along with a sound and a full second plus to react when it coming with a purple beam added.

A flying purple GS isn’t a tell? The same arguement you’re using for DJ being fine is the same for Mesmer being fine.The only part of Mesmer burst that can’t be blocked is the Gs bounce, shatters and jaunt are blockable.Stab counters MoDSo the argument that you should have a stun break and dodge saved literally is the same thing to counter GS burst. You can’t say one is fine but not the other.

You picked out ONE tell and ignored all of the others. I gave you a list of tells , not just the one. If DJ was JUST a purple beam you would have an argument. Note DJ against a person NOT marked is just a beam but the person not marked will not get hit for 25k. A mark is a little symbol over your head that allows you a lot of time to ready for that shot.

Same too with the ways to counter. Jaunt and the others you mentioned are not blocked by blades of grass, they can not be countered by moving into a group of friends, they can not be reflected. When a person gives a LIST of advantages as comparison, you do not pick one item out of the list and say "see they are all the same".

Seeing that blades of grass can in fact impair clones from reaching the target yeah I’d say the only difference is reflect as I’ve seen people in groups be hit by DJ’s multiple times.

But I honestly think you’re missing my point. How is DJ ok when it requires less skills to use vs GS Mesmer, fresh air ele, etc that can also “one shot” yet those need nerfed? Whether it’s OP or not(I’m not saying it is, just unhealthy) the ability to do that much damage with minimal skill input is not good for the game. They all need nerfed but so do passive defenses. I would have liked to see a lot more done in this regard with the upcoming patch but we won’t. You will still be able to spam confounding suggestions(to an extent) which is a big reason GS Mesmer burst is high. It holds the hand of bad-average players by literally doing the work for them rather than making the player work and set up the burst. DJ is no different. Mark target, kneel, build stacks, wait a bit more and boom players dead. Especially when combined with other traits and utilities.

My point is that while DJ has counter play it’s simply unhealthy for the game. The same for scourge. Being able to spam AoE’s that cover a point in a point based game mode is bad design. There’s a lot that needs balanced in the game and DJ is one of them. At least with backstab and heart seeker you have to be in melee range and set up the backstab.

The simple fact is that as I mentioned were the damage to be pushed downwards on power across all classes Bunker would take over and Condition build dominate. That Scourge is countered by that DE simply because the DE is able to do enough damage at range.

If you are dropping the damage of power so there no one shot kills possible (which seems to be your argument of "unhealthy gameplay") then every trait on every profession, condition and power both ALONG with innate advanatges such as 8k out of the get more health has to be looked at. The classes like THIEF and Elementalist NEED to do more damage out of the gate in order to overcome that 8k advantage. If they are doing more damage out of the gate against a class with with 8000 more health than the impact of that damage on a class with 11k health out of the gate will be even higher.

You are talking about an entirely new game.

And at this point... that’s probably the best bet they have to get things balanced. They’ve worked themselves into a corner with the introduction of boon and condition duration stats and the implementation of every class having absurd levels of boons and condition stacking. As well as the influx of passive procs.

I’m not saying we shouldn’t have hard hitting skills/combos. Perfect example is actually fresh air ele, Gs Mesmer and d/p thief. Currently fresh air is the best example as the class has little in the way of escapes and unless the combo is pulled off perfectly you’re a sitting duck. Core GS shatter is similar as is d/p thief. Those classes spec offensively as possible to produce the burst. That’s fine and good as most are only effective within 900 range. What’s not good is sitting at 1500 range to camp while a buff builds up then do damage. On the flip side it’s not good to be able to trait offensively and have almost as much defense as a tank. Mirage is a perfect example of this. Most of the Mesmer community has been in a consensus that mirage, while being half baked, was going to be a strong(if clunky) mechanic. Being able to evade while cc’ed, training to have mirrors and being able to break stun via dodge aren’t healthy for a point based game. Mirrors aren’t as effective in WvW because they can be spread out too far, however, in a conquest game mode most mirrors are within jaunt range thus increasing evade up time. This enables mirage to be defensive while dealing high damage.

Essentially Anet needs to bring back risk vs reward. Generally in mmos range does less damage than melee because of the inherent risk, or lack there of. Right now we don’t have that in Gw2, DE is low risk high reward, as is mirage. Druid is the epitome of low risk high reward if you like that kind of boring game play. So yeah maybe you’re right and gw3 is the only way to solve the issues.