My predictions on how LWS4 will play out.

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

@"Kossage.9072" said:5) Uniting the Istani and Vabbian Sunspears. Given how Spearmarshal Zaeim shares history with First Spear Kitur (having been Kitur's student before leaving for Istan despite Kitur's protests), I'd like to see master and student meet and reconcile. Even better if the narrative managed to tie in the griffon quest storyline into it: perhaps we and Zaeim lead a seemingly successful charge against Joko's forces only to end up in a devious trap where even Aurene can't help us. But then at, our darkest hour, we see a flight of griffons ridden by Vabbian Sunspears soar overhead and assault Joko's forces with Tahlkora (or one of the other Sunspears) shouting the iconic line of their order: "Sunspears never fight alone". It would be nice to see Tahlkora officially recognize Zaeim as the new Spearmarshal, ritualistically passing the mantle on him and truly unite the factions into a stronger entity. Perhaps we'd even see some resolution to Koss's story, especially if the Sunspear plot involved Kossan and the (potentially nefarious) Order of Shadows.I've suspected something like this might happen given how much the Vabbian Sunspears talk about how much f an advantage Griffons could be. If not against Joko, then against when we make our move on Kralkatorik.

14) Elonian centaurs in Kourna or wherever. While it seems that many Elonian centaurs were massacred for the expansion of the Bone Palace, it'd be nice to see some centaurs survive out there in the wilds, perhaps led by Zhed Shadowhoof's descendant. Interacting with the Maguuma centaurs in Season 2 was nice, and it would be fun to see centaurs as allies and/or enemies, depending on whether any Veldrunner or Losaru centaurs survived.This is something I have also hoped for. Elona doesn't have too many sentient races, and having some centaurs survive, and join what I like to think of as the Elonian Pact, would be nice.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

So about going to Gandara next as speculated primarily due to the "leaked" image:

When that image came out, we panicked for a split second before taking a closer look. Sandswept Isles never looked like that during development. It was a good educated guess since the PoF map showed the cube (which did move during development) and a nicely done photoshop. Sorry to break it to you but that "leak" was faked.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/8de1bu/sandswept_isles_underwent_some_major_changes/dxmhcwd/

That leak was faked, but a well educated guess. So there's now absolutely nothing implying us going to Gandara next.

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:So there's now absolutely nothing implying us going to Gandara next.In correct, the map updates that_shaman pointed out that occurred during Daybreak still suggest Gandara, and Jahai are next.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

And what would prevent it from being somewhere else then Jahai then Gandara? Or maybe the map got updated solely because one of the artists wanted to show off a GW1 landmark on the world map much like that Elder Junundu corner being on the world map.

There's many more than merely one possibility.

Season 3 never updated the maps beforehand, and what did get updated early, with Rising Flame no less (southern side of Orr), had no barring on S3 but instead seemed to be part of the update to expanding the world map to include Elona. So those updates could, for all we know, be for Expansion 3.

Not to mention there were more updates than the three you repeatedly note, even if that_shaman didn't point them out in that update (likely because they got updated before the update which that_shaman saw the map changes). Just compare the PoF map to the late updated S4 map, and you see more than just dragonbrand, Jahai, Gandara, and Grothmar updates.

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:And what would prevent it from being somewhere else then Jahai then Gandara?Because video games are a business, and like all business, they run off of two major factors, time and money, and no one spends either of them doing something like reworking an already made map to add buildings to the over world map that will ultimately serve no purpose in the actual game.

Season 3 never updated the maps beforehandSeason 3 also didn't add large buildings that could reasonably be seen from that distance on the world map outside of Orr, but Orr is such a giant cluster-fudge of smudge, even with the map revealed, its hard to make out anything to begin with, unlike Elona which doesn't have that problem.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:Because video games are a business, and like all business, they run off of two major factors, time and money, and no one spends either of them doing something like reworking an already made map to add buildings to the over world map that will ultimately serve no purpose in the actual game.

Except... they've actually done that in the past already.... Not buildings specifically, but there have been odd updates to the world map that had seen no future purpose.

And hell, we've seen updates to the maps without changes to the world map as well (Iron Marches for one and Far Silverwastes for two).

@Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:Season 3 also didn't add large buildings

A gigantic volcano doesn't count?

Two gigantic volcanoes don't count?

Or six gigantic reliquaries? An iceberg city? A large fortress on top of a hill?

Jahai isn't likely to be much bigger than Fort Evennia was, let alone Draconis Mons.

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:Except... they've actually done that in the past already.... Not buildings specificallyFalse comparison fallacy.And hell, we've seen updates to the maps without changes to the world map as wellThis is also something else entirely, and also expected due to the fact that Guild wars 2, rather oddly for an open world game, uses an actual painted map as its map, instead of doing what many other MMOs, and many open world RPGs like skyrim do, where the map is actually just the game world LOD seem from above, and thus, dynamically updates as larger pieces move around. This is the same reason Elin Kiel's airship doesn't show up in Lion's Arch's map, it isn't worth the time and money to repaint the LA map to include it.A gigantic volcano doesn't count?Two gigantic volcanoes don't count?Neither of those are buildings, they are natural features in a naturally volcanic region, and thus, don't stand out from the rest of the map. They don't need to update the map to show something that was already there. You literally just tried to push the following "why didn't they update the map to show dirt in a region that is already dirt covered!"Or six gigantic reliquaries? AnI already covered OrrAn iceberg city?A hovel is not a city, nor is it particularly large, only being 1/3 the size of the other Kodan iceburgs seen in Frostorge Sound.A large fortress on top of a hill?Again, already covered

You seem to have either not read my post, or intentionally ignored the point I made about them being done because of how they are uniquely observable from a high distance. Please try again.

[Tyson.5160]

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:Because video games are a business, and like all business, they run off of two major factors, time and money, and no one spends either of them doing something like reworking an already made map to add buildings to the over world map that will ultimately serve no purpose in the actual game.

Except... they've actually done that in the past already.... Not buildings specifically, but there have been odd updates to the world map that had seen no future purpose.

And hell, we've seen updates to the maps

without

changes to the world map as well (Iron Marches for one and Far Silverwastes for two).

@Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:Season 3 also didn't add large buildings

A gigantic volcano doesn't count?

Two

gigantic volcanoes don't count?

Or six gigantic reliquaries? An

iceberg city

? A large fortress on top of a hill?

Jahai isn't likely to be much bigger than Fort Evennia was, let alone Draconis Mons.

Konig, what are you doing?

There is an April AFC to prepare for, get back to your lore questions...

We need answers! I might throw them a couple of my own that we’ve been debating about.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:Except... they've actually done that in the past already.... Not buildings specificallyFalse comparison fallacy.And hell, we've seen updates to the maps without changes to the world map as wellThis is also something else entirely, and also expected due to the fact that Guild wars 2, rather oddly for an open world game, uses an actual painted map as its map, instead of doing what many other MMOs, and many open world RPGs like skyrim do, where the map is actually just the game world LOD seem from above, and thus, dynamically updates as larger pieces move around. This is the same reason Elin Kiel's airship doesn't show up in Lion's Arch's map, it isn't worth the time and money to repaint the LA map to include it.

"The actions are completely the same but the situation is completely different BECAUSE I SAY IT IS DAMN IT ALL!"

That's what your posts have effectively been rebutting as, just with nicer words.

@Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

A gigantic volcano doesn't count?Two gigantic volcanoes don't count?Neither of those are buildings, they are natural features in a naturally volcanic region, and thus, don't stand out from the rest of the map. They don't need to update the map to show something that was already there. You literally just tried to push the following "why didn't they update the map to show dirt in a region that is already dirt covered!"Or six gigantic reliquaries? AnI already covered OrrAn iceberg city?A hovel is not a city, nor is it particularly large, only being 1/3 the size of the other Kodan iceburgs seen in Frostorge Sound.A large fortress on top of a hill?Again, already covered

You actually did not cover Fort Evennia in your post. You also don't seem to realize that kodan sanctuaries are literally described in every instance to be cities. [Even from their first introduction](). You also fail to realize that it doesn't matter if something is man-made or not, if it's gigantic, then it's gigantic, and that's what Draconis Mons is. Yet it didn't get added to the world map until the release that gave us Draconis Mons (it was mostly water there beforehand).

Not to mention that in the core map, many cities and towns and giant monuments that are the size are still just "smuges". Which completely counteracts your "observable from a high distance" argument, really.

But you'll just scream "It's not the same!"

Because "reasons" (which aren't really reasons).

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:"The actions are completely the same but the situation is completely different BECAUSE I SAY IT IS kitten IT ALL!"The situation is different because the situation you described in that specific point IS literally the polar opposite situation of what we were talking about.You also don't seem to realize that kodan sanctuaries are literally described in every instance to be cities.Lore has nothing to do with the map, which based on the in-game representations of things, which are always scaled differently based on priorities. You seem to fail to grasp the difference between lore and the in-game, which are not the same.You also fail to realize that it doesn't matter if something is man-made or notIt actually does massively because man made structures stick out from the natural environment like a sore thumb, which is why more priority is put into making them visible on the world map is a higher priority then making a natural feature visible when natural features largely get reduced down to a smudge on the map anyways.Not to mention that in the core map, many cities and towns and giant monuments that are the size are still just "smuges".Not really, the five major racial cities especially. Amnoon is also still very visible from a distance because everything around it just sand. Even the Morden Cresant Great Hall ,and the Astralarium, stand out due to their size and the environment around them.

You really don't seem to grasp anything you are arguing, please try again.

[Torolan.5816]

Joko has a nimbus and I don´t see him permanently killed, although Anet has some bravado by letting also really well liked people die and torture us with other people who keep on reappearing, so who knows.All guys mentioned were unable to stop the commander or even failed to realize that they were up against him. Loosing these people will cost Joko some coordination and put his forces into disarray but not ultimately stop them. Even when the soldiers are stupid, a halfway capable replacement marshal can take over and bring out basic orders.
Joko, as the ravening megalomaniac he is, probably will sooner or later come to the conclusion that only he can destroy the commander and won´t take the time to resurrect his failing officers once he decides that only he can do the job. He will have a really lame ace of some sort on his sleeve, fail in defeating us and then looses his power. Maybe he is trapped in the mist again or swomething like that.The order of shadow won´t be so stupid to rely on Joko to stay still or just be interested in the status quo. Blood is in the water and I understand him as a guy that wants it all and is not happy with a smaller price.I personally have little to no sympathy for the marshals and would have no problems facing them again. I would be harder pressed to fight against Lonai or Koss again.

Or maybe there is a plot hammer and Kralkatorik will fight and banish Joko in a climatic sky battle where we are only spectators.

[Castigator.3470]

@Torolan.5816 said:Or maybe there is a plot hammer and Kralkatorik will fight and banish Joko in a climatic sky battle where we are only spectators.

Hah, that would be golden. It would indicate, that Joko at some point drank his own Kool Aid, should he decide to go one on one vs. Kralkatorrik. I don't think it would be a long fight, but it would set Kralkatorrik into the focus of the narrative.This would also present an opportunity to quickly get rid of Joko. If he dies to Kralkatorrik, the elonians may actually believe that Joko is dead.Eventually they will learn, that he wasn't all powerful, but at this point, who'd blame him, if he died to an elder dragon.It would make it easier to convince the elonians, that the elder dragons have to be dealt with.

[Torolan.5816]

Joko is drinking his Kool Aid all the time. He offers seemingly generous alliances from a position of power, he builds statues and monuments of himself, he hunts a foe that is close to extinction anyway, he hasn´t taken any real steps to fend off Kralkatorikk, he boasts of being a primeval king, he feuds with King thorn over something probably really petty, he micro manages his plans and underlings. He probably also thinks that his defeats at the hand of Turai Ossai and Balthazar were flukes and his fighting progress is unreached. The more I learn about him the more I see him as an emperor in the likes of Nero who would like to be a Hadrian instead.

[Gazrul.3086]

I personally would love for us to go to the Blood Legion Homelands. Char are a very interesting race but so far we have not been shown any other Legion's lands but the Iron and Flame ones. I think it would be interesting to see what damage Kralk's awakening had caused and what is going on in the Blood Legion capital if they have one.

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

@Uruk.3215 said:I personally would love for us to go to the Blood Legion Homelands. Char are a very interesting race but so far we have not been shown any other Legion's lands but the Iron and Flame ones. I think it would be interesting to see what damage Kralk's awakening had caused and what is going on in the Blood Legion capital if they have one.I doubt Kralkatorik's awakening caused much damage at all. Only a very small part of brand exists north of Ascalon, in the other Charr lands.