Account suspension discussion [merged]

[GrubySzymek.1362]

@Anthony.7630 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Ardenwolfe.8590 said:Pretty much what Anthony said. I don't like it either, but it's the reality of the Internet and online gaming in general.

Only because it's not regulated. Just like with lootboxes, gaming industry exploits holes in law. Secret data gathering is on of such holes.

Well the dangers of consumers and governments is the governments try to protect consumers because most consumers don't have common sense or will power or any self control as well as caution. That's why american businesses hate governments. Government protects consumers while businesses need money - and the best place to get money is from people who have no self control or no will power or maturity / intelligence / common sense to know what they are doing.

We are not slaves to corpos. They want us to accept their questionable rules while getting our money. Governments finally see that in corpo vs customer situation, a customer is on losing side. Also, online privacy is vital topic now and is finally going to be regulated. One less hole for gaming companies to exploit.

[Blocki.4931]

Fairly certain those cheaters were banned too :)

[GrubySzymek.1362]

@"Ardenwolfe.8590" said:On a side note, I'm loving how these posts went from "I'm not a cheater!" to "Okay, I cheated, but not on Guild Wars 2!" to "It's unethical for ANet to look at my stuff! Shame on them!"

Hilarious.

They already lifted few dozens of suspension. How many more unjustified bans can be there? At this point I can't believe in Anet's "careful investigation".

[Vulcaruss.9567]

I'm still waiting on my Suspension Lift Anet.... That Support Ticket isn't going to answer itself..

[GrubySzymek.1362]

@Deihnyx.6318 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@"Ardenwolfe.8590" said:Pretty much what Anthony said. I don't like it either, but it's the reality of the Internet and online gaming in general.

Only because it's not regulated. Just like with lootboxes, gaming industry exploits holes in law. Secret data gathering is on of such holes.

And just like lootboxes people are blowing this out of proportion.Actually It's even worse here. We hear things like "breach of privacy" and "security" for something that is being done by your own OS, and that can be done very easily by any program that you install. A list of processes. Woo, like you guys ever cared before...

It also can't be regulated that easily. And politics wouldn't understand the ramifications... the game has to transmit data, and get data back to its server. And monitoring is not as intrusive as some people make it sound like. It's a list of processes ....

And finally, the all too glorious anonymity of the internet is causing quite a lot of problems recently, with people saying whatever they want, hiding behind pseudonyms. You don't even know if they're real people or just bots, and they keep influencing society, lying, modifying facts here and there. That's where all this craziness is leading.

Point is, how many unjustified bans are there still in the queue? Because the detection method they used leaves a lot of space for false assumptions.

[Deihnyx.6318]

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Anthony.7630 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Ardenwolfe.8590 said:Pretty much what Anthony said. I don't like it either, but it's the reality of the Internet and online gaming in general.

Only because it's not regulated. Just like with lootboxes, gaming industry exploits holes in law. Secret data gathering is on of such holes.

Well the dangers of consumers and governments is the governments try to protect consumers because most consumers don't have common sense or will power or any self control as well as caution. That's why american businesses hate governments. Government protects consumers while businesses need money - and the best place to get money is from people who have no self control or no will power or maturity / intelligence / common sense to know what they are doing.

We are not slaves to corpos. They want us to accept their questionable rules while getting our money. Governments finally see that in corpo vs customer situation, a customer is on losing side. Also, online privacy is vital topic now and is finally going to be regulated. One less hole for gaming companies to exploit.

You're not slave, you can choose not to accept the ToS and move on.Nothing about monitoring a game against cheaters is abusive in my book. It's also got nothing to do with blablabla companies are here for money in this case.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

@Deihnyx.6318 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Anthony.7630 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Ardenwolfe.8590 said:Pretty much what Anthony said. I don't like it either, but it's the reality of the Internet and online gaming in general.

Only because it's not regulated. Just like with lootboxes, gaming industry exploits holes in law. Secret data gathering is on of such holes.

Well the dangers of consumers and governments is the governments try to protect consumers because most consumers don't have common sense or will power or any self control as well as caution. That's why american businesses hate governments. Government protects consumers while businesses need money - and the best place to get money is from people who have no self control or no will power or maturity / intelligence / common sense to know what they are doing.

We are not slaves to corpos. They want us to accept their questionable rules while getting our money. Governments finally see that in corpo vs customer situation, a customer is on losing side. Also, online privacy is vital topic now and is finally going to be regulated. One less hole for gaming companies to exploit.

You're not slave, you can choose not to accept the ToS and move on.Nothing about monitoring a game against cheaters is abusive in my book. It's also got nothing to do with blablabla companies are here for money in this case.

Oh I'm not against being monitored because I don't cheat. However, I want to know I am being monitored and see what data is being transfered.

[Anthony.7630]

I can understand people from europe being very angry. They have different laws than us americans. Us americans are pretty much casted in business problems.

China and Europe are both against a lot of privcy acts as well as loot box manipulation. Save us china and europe :+1: save us from the US business laws LOL

Also for windows 10 a "intelligent search engine" called cortana likes to run in the background and collect private information about you. It's hard to disable because microsoft keeps trying to reneable it after you stop it.

What else..... i am sorry for those of you got banned. I don't cheat my self but on world of warcraft i have 17 addons and blizzard warcraft is very lenient about addons.

Guild wars 2 is not as free with addons. So sorry you got busted. Wish you all good things.

[battledrone.8315]

deletedkk

[Taki.2130]

@Anthony.7630 said:I can understand people from europe being very angry. They have different laws than us americans. Us americans are pretty much casted in business problems resigned to never having privacy ever again.

Here, fixed that for you.

[sitarskee.5738]

Oh i see....So the mod that made this mmominion left a message''' in the top of the page (about GW2 bans) , isnt true then ? :P

'' we are taking the needed steps that this will not happen again. But their "detection" is currently not active and you can already go crazy with your bots''

http://www.mmominion.com/

Holy kitten, that's sad how many people respond to that thread with how many accounts on they've been hacking and stuff. People like them should really get a life.

[shippage.1983]

@Vault Girl.6792 said:

@Colly.4073 said:You know the risks of 3rd party apps when you go to the website that contains them, you know the risks when you click the download button and you know the risks when you click INSTALL and then proceed to run the application. I'm sorry but if you chose to download, install and then run something that isn't approved by anet then your ban is justified whether you used it for 3 minutes or 3 weeks.

Nothing except GW2 itself is approved. So should I ask Anet every time when I want to run Photoshop? Or Excel? Or Word? What if I open a browser? I understand if people get banned for things designed to cheat in GW2, but for unrelated programs?

Gw2 has a lot of client-side logic, like movement. It's very common to just enable speed hack with Cheat Engine and use it in game. It was actually a big problem in PvP since people would add subtle speed boosts to themselves to not get obviously detected by other players.

[Scrivs.4501]

@AliamRationem.5172 said:Nothing you're saying here is in any way pertinent to the question of whether or not this is legal. That's all that matters here. If a company breaks the law, the fact that they told you they were going to do it via ToS does not absolve them of responsibility.

I'm not saying ANet did anything illegal, but your argument is totally irrelevant.

@AliamRationem.5172 said:So, you're saying that a contract between two parties that violates the law is legally binding? Sounds...questionable.

What are you on about man? So you're not saying Anet did anything illegal, but you're simultaneously worried about whether or not this is legal?

The point is that they didn't do anything illegal and so there literally is nothing to be upset about. No one ever said that a contract that violates the law is always legally binding. You were complaining about Anet having installed spyware on our systems - which isn't illegal in this Orwellian day and age - without our permission, so all I said was that you DID give them permission to install spyware on your system by accepting their agreements.Sure, in your ridiculous leg amputation example it wouldn't fly because that obviously would be illegal, but they didn't say they wanted to amputate our legs.

All I said was that what I find hilarious, is that people are suddenly complaining about having spyware installed on their system while they explicitly gave Anet permission to do so. So either accept these consequences, or don't use their product.

[Rajani Isa.6294]

@"FrostDraco.8306" said:and absolutely ignoring all the feedback they've ever been given.

If you truly believe this, then you need to understand something quite simple.

Doing whatever a vocal portion of your fanbase demands does NOT equal "listening to feedback". They've given plenty of indications that they do indeed listen to feedback, even if it doesn't result in them doing what some, or even most, of us want.

[Sojar.1495]

@Nezekan.2671 said:The ramifications of this are even bigger than you think.

Account sharing cannot be justified, we all get it. But what about computer sharing? Its a very common practice and this sort of action targets those people with prejudice.

Let me take this little pin and burst your bubble:

If you are computer sharing without using separate accounts, that's awfully silly, from just a personal information standpoint...

And if you are using separate accounts... guess what? When you switch accounts, any previously running executable (ie CheatEngine) would be suspended on the other account, and would not actively be running on your account.

whoops

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:I am absolutely disgusted by Gaile's update on banwave.

1. She says Anet cares about transparency and respects our privacy and she claims this is why she made an update - this is false information. The only reason this update was posted is because of exposing ArenaNet's dishonesty in terms of data gathering from our PCs.
2. They actually admitted that bans were handed by ASSUMPTION of hacking GW2, just because certain apps are running in the background. It's like locking someone in prison, because such person has knife in a kitchen, so it's POSSIBLE to use it as a crime tool.
3. As expected, some accounts already has been unbanned. So there goes Anet's famous "careful investigation".

This whole case is being handled amateurly. You can start your investigations using process list but every single case must be checked if it's actually hacking.

As a customer, I feel now violated by the actions of the company. First of all, it's dishonest. Second, probably not safe for me as I have no control over what data Anet stole from me. Finally, how can I be sure that their inconsistent, faulty "investigation" process won't make me banned one day because I'm running an app they don't know and they ASSUME it's a hack?

I think it's time for new security lead at anet and restructuring of their internal policies.

Oh? Well allow me to interject quickly.

! Image Name PID Session Name Session# Mem Usage! System Idle Process 0 Services 0 8 K! System 4 Services 0 11,260 K! smss.exe 368 Services 0 32 K! csrss.exe 564 Services 0 1,884 K! wininit.exe 652 Services 0 28 K! csrss.exe 668 Console 1 2,848 K! services.exe 720 Services 0 6,844 K! lsass.exe 740 Services 0 10,844 K! svchost.exe 840 Services 0 920 K! svchost.exe 868 Services 0 21,656 K! fontdrvhost.exe 892 Services 0 572 K! WUDFHost.exe 900 Services 0 340 K! svchost.exe 1012 Services 0 12,672 K! svchost.exe 340 Services 0 4,388 K! winlogon.exe 528 Console 1 1,600 K! fontdrvhost.exe 1036 Console 1 7,044 K! dwm.exe 1092 Console 1 48,568 K! svchost.exe 1216 Services 0 4,716 K! svchost.exe 1248 Services 0 1,092 K! svchost.exe 1324 Services 0 11,440 K! svchost.exe 1360 Services 0 3,108 K! svchost.exe 1368 Services 0 4,800 K! svchost.exe 1448 Services 0 2,196 K! svchost.exe 1456 Services 0 5,348 K! svchost.exe 1548 Services 0 3,660 K! svchost.exe 1604 Services 0 11,880 K! svchost.exe 1620 Services 0 2,192 K! NVDisplay.Container.exe 1676 Services 0 6,284 K! svchost.exe 1716 Services 0 6,424 K! svchost.exe 1860 Services 0 1,496 K! svchost.exe 1940 Services 0 6,060 K! svchost.exe 1948 Services 0 1,688 K! svchost.exe 1956 Services 0 4,300 K! svchost.exe 1976 Services 0 5,064 K! svchost.exe 1988 Services 0 5,164 K! svchost.exe 1996 Services 0 4,120 K! svchost.exe 2088 Services 0 2,724 K! svchost.exe 2152 Services 0 6,028 K! svchost.exe 2164 Services 0 4,528 K! svchost.exe 2244 Services 0 5,608 K! svchost.exe 2252 Services 0 4,328 K! svchost.exe 2260 Services 0 5,776 K! svchost.exe 2292 Services 0 3,336 K! svchost.exe 2320 Services 0 9,052 K! svchost.exe 2672 Services 0 4,768 K! svchost.exe 2764 Services 0 2,448 K! svchost.exe 2772 Services 0 8,468 K! svchost.exe 2808 Services 0 4,780 K! svchost.exe 2872 Services 0 8,408 K! svchost.exe 2968 Services 0 2,228 K! svchost.exe 2976 Services 0 4,476 K! svchost.exe 3032 Services 0 10,000 K! spaceman.exe 3068 Services 0 84 K! svchost.exe 3096 Services 0 2,904 K! svchost.exe 3120 Services 0 4,288 K! svchost.exe 3132 Services 0 14,532 K! conhost.exe 3160 Services 0 772 K! svchost.exe 3200 Services 0 3,060 K! spoolsv.exe 3256 Services 0 4,860 K! svchost.exe 3300 Services 0 5,168 K! svchost.exe 3368 Services 0 17,408 K! svchost.exe 3492 Services 0 13,904 K! svchost.exe 3504 Services 0 2,824 K! svchost.exe 3524 Services 0 20,252 K! svchost.exe 3544 Services 0 34,300 K! svchost.exe 3564 Services 0 11,228 K! svchost.exe 3624 Services 0 1,624 K! svchost.exe 3708 Services 0 11,176 K! svchost.exe 3716 Services 0 24,148 K! svchost.exe 3724 Services 0 1,948 K! HomeServerSMART2013.Servi 3736 Services 0 33,140 K! mDNSResponder.exe 3744 Services 0 2,936 K! PnkBstrA.exe 3760 Services 0 1,580 K! nvcontainer.exe 3768 Services 0 7,616 K! IpOverUsbSvc.exe 3820 Services 0 3,104 K! armsvc.exe 3828 Services 0 1,736 K! SecurityHealthService.exe 3872 Services 0 10,840 K! NvTelemetryContainer.exe 3888 Services 0 6,636 K! sqlwriter.exe 3912 Services 0 2,300 K! OfficeClickToRun.exe 3920 Services 0 26,392 K! svchost.exe 3996 Services 0 3,192 K! Plex Update Service.exe 4012 Services 0 2,568 K! OriginWebHelperService.ex 3680 Services 0 8,664 K! dasHost.exe 3980 Services 0 12,852 K! svchost.exe 4184 Services 0 3,636 K! svchost.exe 4828 Services 0 5,044 K! svchost.exe 6588 Services 0 10,128 K! svchost.exe 7056 Services 0 6,568 K! NVDisplay.Container.exe 6864 Console 1 20,456 K! nvcontainer.exe 6596 Console 1 20,632 K! sihost.exe 4352 Console 1 21,308 K! svchost.exe 4052 Console 1 12,704 K! svchost.exe 4140 Console 1 30,280 K! taskhostw.exe 2656 Console 1 13,084 K! svchost.exe 2364 Services 0 13,708 K! svchost.exe 5256 Services 0 1,992 K! ctfmon.exe 1336 Console 1 9,128 K! explorer.exe 7232 Console 1 158,080 K! GoogleCrashHandler.exe 7440 Services 0 68 K! GoogleCrashHandler64.exe 7892 Services 0 136 K! ShellExperienceHost.exe 660 Console 1 98,944 K! SearchUI.exe 8372 Console 1 190,680 K! RuntimeBroker.exe 8488 Console 1 33,932 K! RuntimeBroker.exe 8564 Console 1 20,368 K! SearchIndexer.exe 8780 Services 0 48,828 K! svchost.exe 8852 Services 0 14,524 K! SettingSyncHost.exe 7460 Console 1 3,424 K! svchost.exe 7252 Console 1 31,168 K! RuntimeBroker.exe 9692 Console 1 31,272 K! RemindersServer.exe 10224 Console 1 9,272 K! RuntimeBroker.exe 4464 Console 1 8,924 K! aida64.exe 9496 Console 1 2,028 K! MSASCuiL.exe 12020 Console 1 3,380 K! svchost.exe 10052 Services 0 2,972 K! LCore.exe 12408 Console 1 96,532 K! WindowSMARTTray.exe 13040 Console 1 13,888 K! RAVCpl64.exe 13128 Console 1 6,496 K! Steam.exe 13248 Console 1 103,256 K! iPodService.exe 12344 Services 0 2,996 K! steamwebhelper.exe 11756 Console 1 29,696 K! steamwebhelper.exe 8400 Console 1 4,160 K! SteamService.exe 9940 Services 0 6,108 K! Discord.exe 13808 Console 1 54,216 K! Plex Media Server.exe 13836 Console 1 48,068 K! acrotray.exe 14028 Console 1 1,472 K! Discord.exe 11828 Console 1 28,080 K! steamwebhelper.exe 12588 Console 1 17,764 K! Discord.exe 6384 Console 1 216,224 K! PlexScriptHost.exe 14120 Console 1 43,188 K! conhost.exe 10104 Console 1 2,620 K! Spotify.exe 8668 Console 1 108,520 K! Spotify.exe 14084 Console 1 2,980 K! Spotify.exe 14480 Console 1 64,992 K! SpotifyWebHelper.exe 14512 Console 1 1,576 K! Spotify.exe 14664 Console 1 193,636 K! svchost.exe 15328 Services 0 11,812 K! Plex DLNA Server.exe 14904 Console 1 5,724 K! Plex Tuner Service.exe 3948 Console 1 2,136 K! conhost.exe 7856 Console 1 1,076 K! svchost.exe 16084 Services 0 4,072 K! svchost.exe 11212 Services 0 2,136 K! ApplicationFrameHost.exe 11384 Console 1 27,068 K! WinStore.App.exe 10548 Console 1 1,600 K! RuntimeBroker.exe 8432 Console 1 7,848 K! Microsoft.Photos.exe 16256 Console 1 6,064 K! RuntimeBroker.exe 732 Console 1 14,656 K! svchost.exe 11956 Services 0 5,840 K! DropboxUpdate.exe 5688 Console 1 124 K! HxCalendarAppImm.exe 9132 Console 1 51,592 K! HxTsr.exe 9528 Console 1 37,144 K! RuntimeBroker.exe 15856 Console 1 7,268 K! RuntimeBroker.exe 3804 Console 1 10,196 K! svchost.exe 11568 Services 0 8,892 K! rundll32.exe 15112 Console 1 8,124 K! SystemSettingsBroker.exe 4200 Console 1 10,972 K! svchost.exe 10896 Services 0 22,332 K! dllhost.exe 2700 Console 1 11,644 K! MsMpEng.exe 12744 Services 0 159,736 K! NisSrv.exe 2536 Services 0 11,172 K! svchost.exe 9324 Services 0 7,208 K! audiodg.exe 11160 Services 0 20,620 K! Calculator.exe 4648 Console 1 39,104 K! RuntimeBroker.exe 8428 Console 1 7,136 K! steamwebhelper.exe 500 Console 1 37,748 K! svchost.exe 16180 Services 0 7,396 K! uTorrent.exe 11868 Console 1 92,104 K! chrome.exe 7404 Console 1 223,396 K! chrome.exe 15980 Console 1 8,712 K! chrome.exe 3396 Console 1 9,228 K! chrome.exe 12872 Console 1 153,596 K! utorrentie.exe 13228 Console 1 33,184 K! utorrentie.exe 7928 Console 1 12,660 K! chrome.exe 3024 Console 1 55,224 K! chrome.exe 3264 Console 1 160,772 K! chrome.exe 11024 Console 1 76,576 K! chrome.exe 16020 Console 1 52,668 K! dllhost.exe 14888 Console 1 7,888 K! WinRAR.exe 9988 Console 1 32,508 K! svchost.exe 2712 Services 0 6,092 K! chrome.exe 5224 Console 1 195,968 K! smartscreen.exe 7656 Console 1 31,592 K! svchost.exe 11908 Services 0 15,708 K! taskhostw.exe 3172 Console 1 18,296 K! svchost.exe 5784 Services 0 8,208 K! backgroundTaskHost.exe 15904 Console 1 24,332 K! chrome.exe 12716 Console 1 118,056 K! cmd.exe 916 Console 1 3,152 K! conhost.exe 9436 Console 1 14,148 K! WmiPrvSE.exe 5196 Services 0 9,552 K! tasklist.exe 5500 Console 1 7,912 K

Oh noes, my personal data! Yeah, see... no big deal. You know what I am currently running on my gaming rig. Gasp. Whatever will I do with my "personal data!" Honestly, the overreacting to this is absurd.

[Legit Prep In.5893]

@Vault Girl.6792 said:

@"Aeolus.3615" said:I dont get it.... explain to me

If Anet detects/search software inside your computer? what does that means?

IF Anet detects 3rd party tools messing up with mem stored values that's another and totally diferent story, wich makes valid ban.

Now dont tell me that "Woops!, Iwas cheating on the wrong exe"....

Still... if CE enventually worked that well on Gw2... shame on u Anet... lel

The problem is that Anet didn't check whether CE is changing anything in GW2. They just banned everyone who had it open, without even checking what process is getting monitored there.

^that is exactly the point of discussion that should be here. Having a Tor browser open doesn't automatically make you a crack and weaponsdealer either.

[Rajani Isa.6294]

@TexZero.7910 said:All terms are available to read online publicly, when signing up for the game/forums you are given a pop-up with a check box that denotes you approve. If they had spurious claims in there they wouldn't legally hold up. However, that isn't the case here. They have every right to monitor their game and your pc as it's a live service there's plenty of legal precedent for this so good luck taking it to court.

Is there plenty of precedent though? Most of what I know of revolves around the WOWGLider (IIRC) program and it's sandboxing - which got them in trouble due to the DMCA more than anything (illegal copies of the game), from what I recall.

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

@Scrivs.4501 said:

@"AliamRationem.5172" said:So, if you fail to read 5000 pages of legalese and blindly click "accept", that fact alone justifies absolutely anything we want to put into those terms of service, right? Hey, look! Section 753-D, subsection P, paragraph 42

clearly

states that you agree to have your leg amputated (which leg to be determined by ANet) and a prosthetic installed that runs banner adds for Guild Wars 2!

Yeah, I'm sure that's how it works.

That is exactly how it works. If

you fail

to read something and just blindly agree to it, which then happens to yield negative results for you, then whose fault is that? You don't put your signature on a contract without reading the contract first, do you?You were given the opportunity to voluntarily decline the agreement and thereby prevent any negative consequences from happening to your person. But you didn't. You chose to blindly agree and accept out of sheer laziness (not wanting to read the user agreement first) and for sheer personal gain (just wanting to use the product no matter what consequences it may have).

This reminds me of PokemonGo players being angry about the app collecting and using their GPS locations, while they explicitly gave the app THEIR PERMISSION to gain access to their GPS location.

Or Facebook users being angry about the company collecting and using their photos, GPS location, audio recordings etc. etc., while they explicitly gave the app THEIR PERMISSION to access their photos, camera, microphone, GPS location and all the rest of it.

You can't first permit someone to do something bad to you just so that you can use their product, and then whine and complain about them having done something bad to you.

So in the case of your example, if you choose to EXPLICITLY AGREE TO, and ACCEPT to have your leg amputated in order to be able to play a video game, then what do you think is going to happen?

In other words, if a company first requires you to give them access to a whole heap of personal and sensitive information before they will allow you to have access to

their

product, then you really only have two options: either to give them that access, or to decide to not use their product. It is that simple. You have obviously gone with option #1, and have thus forfeited your right to complain about anything that you have thereby agreed with.

So stop being so immature and take reponsibility for your actions. THINK about what you're doing.

You realize that discorse and complaints about policies is how customers get them changed right? Why have the accept it or leave it mentality? Why see in such black and white? You can complain about it, and with enough pressure they might change their policies. There is plenty of presidence for that. So why attack those who complain?

[Scrivs.4501]

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@Scrivs.4501 said:

@"AliamRationem.5172" said:So, if you fail to read 5000 pages of legalese and blindly click "accept", that fact alone justifies absolutely anything we want to put into those terms of service, right? Hey, look! Section 753-D, subsection P, paragraph 42

clearly

states that you agree to have your leg amputated (which leg to be determined by ANet) and a prosthetic installed that runs banner adds for Guild Wars 2!

Yeah, I'm sure that's how it works.

That is exactly how it works. If

you fail

to read something and just blindly agree to it, which then happens to yield negative results for you, then whose fault is that? You don't put your signature on a contract without reading the contract first, do you?You were given the opportunity to voluntarily decline the agreement and thereby prevent any negative consequences from happening to your person. But you didn't. You chose to blindly agree and accept out of sheer laziness (not wanting to read the user agreement first) and for sheer personal gain (just wanting to use the product no matter what consequences it may have).

This reminds me of PokemonGo players being angry about the app collecting and using their GPS locations, while they explicitly gave the app THEIR PERMISSION to gain access to their GPS location.

Or Facebook users being angry about the company collecting and using their photos, GPS location, audio recordings etc. etc., while they explicitly gave the app THEIR PERMISSION to access their photos, camera, microphone, GPS location and all the rest of it.

You can't first permit someone to do something bad to you just so that you can use their product, and then whine and complain about them having done something bad to you.

So in the case of your example, if you choose to EXPLICITLY AGREE TO, and ACCEPT to have your leg amputated in order to be able to play a video game, then what do you think is going to happen?

In other words, if a company first requires you to give them access to a whole heap of personal and sensitive information before they will allow you to have access to

their

product, then you really only have two options: either to give them that access, or to decide to not use their product. It is that simple. You have obviously gone with option #1, and have thus forfeited your right to complain about anything that you have thereby agreed with.

So stop being so immature and take reponsibility for your actions. THINK about what you're doing.

You realize that discorse and complaints about policies is how customers get them changed right? Why have the accept it or leave it mentality? Why see in such black and white? You can complain about it, and with enough pressure they might change their policies. There is plenty of presidence for that. So why attack those who complain?

That's not at all what I'm saying.

Sure, if you'd first read the terms and would then realize that you don't actually agree with them, you absolutey have every right to complain in the hopes of changing them before you go into agreement with them. I totally agree with you. But what I'm saying, however, is that you shouldn't first accept and agree to the terms, and THEN start to complain. Because as soon as you accept, as soon as you agree, you have forfeited every right to voice your complaints or disagreements, because you were actually already given the opportunity to either accept or decline. Why would you have accepted if you didn't agree?

But this mentality is simply the result of carelessness due to laziness. People just can't be bothered to first read a document and therefore choose to take the risk of blindly accepting and agreeing with everything that's in it. Only to then - after the fact - realize that they have - in the past - agreed to something that is harmful to them, and THEN they start to complain. Well guess what, by then it's too late.Whereas if you had actually read the document first, you would have known about the harmful consequences that agreeing with it would have for you, and would have therefore been in a position to prevent it from ever happening. But no, you couldn't be bothered, and therefore allowed it happen on your own accord, rendering any complaints you may make at that point utterly useless.

[onid.4650]

Can you people stop crying over things that you agree'd on in the TOS? First of all, the module they installed is not a spyware or virus or anything like that but a very basic anti cheat. Every single game in gaming history that tried to remove cheaters from the game has had an anti cheat. To list a few: Counter Strike, Call of Duty, Battlefield, Diablo3, Overwatch, World of Warcraft, Black Desert, Starcraft, Fifa, League of Legends, Fortnite, Hearthstone, Dota, Pubg, Rainbow6, Dead By Daylight, World of Tanks and endlessly more games. I could go on for another hundred games but I hope you get the point.I bet most of you people dont even care about it because wtf is there to care about, you just want to cry for the reason of crying. What anet did was a very harmless tool anyways, checking the running tasks is a very very small scale anti cheat. If you think that is a "breach your privacy" you should check out what Battle-eye does to your pc and even that is still legal.Now for fucks sake, stop hating anet for doing their job.

To anet: Please next time you try to detect cheater do it properly. Checking processes is not a good detection method at all and could have alot of false positives. I am not banned but I wanna mention there was a time I used cheat engine quite often for other stuff that has nothing to do with gw2 (mostly reverse engineering) and I'm the kind of person who just lets gw2 run in the background while doing other stuff.You can easily check what processes create a handle to gw2 and I dont think there is any cheat in gw2 yet that would bypass it. That said I dont think its the correct approach to remove cheaters that way because basically every other game showed that every time the anti cheat gets updated, the developers of the cheats just find a method to make it undetected. (it has been like that in every single game I listed above)If you want to detect stuff like speed hacks you should do it properly and make all the movement stuff serversided. That would make it impossible to speedhack by just changing the speed value without the server knowing.

[Sojar.1495]

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@"Sojar.1495" said:Irrelevant stuff cut out

Nice to see you back. Yesterday you were arguing whole day that every ban is 100% justified. Anet admitted revoking about 60 bans. My question is, at this point, why should anyone find you in any way relevant partner for the discussion? :)

So they repealed 60 bans that were based on a previous method. That changes very little, as they openly admitted it was based on previous data, and those were extenuating circumstances to the overall scope of THIS ban.

Their methods of detection can definitely improve... I'm not arguing that.

As for my relevancy in the discussion, that's entirely your viewpoint. I can't change that any more than I can change the axis tilt of the Earth.

The broader point at this stage is that you have people arguing that they might have been running CheatEngine, innocuously, in tandem with Guild Wars 2. While that might be the case for a very select few of these players, the vast majority were running it to cheat in Guild Wars 2. And those select few... they chose poorly. If they want to appeal their ban with ANET, and they successfully do so, then great! Perhaps they won't make the mistake of running said program while actively having Guild Wars 2 in memory, as it's pretty much logical to assume it's being used for that purpose versus "left running." I'm trying to play Devil's advocate here, but it's very hard considering that it was such a poor choice to do so [run CheatEngine at the same time was GW2.exe] in the first place.

[Taki.2130]

@Sojar.1495 said:

@Nezekan.2671 said:The ramifications of this are even bigger than you think.

Account sharing cannot be justified, we all get it. But what about computer sharing? Its a very common practice and this sort of action targets those people with prejudice.

Let me take this little pin and burst your bubble:

If you are computer sharing without using separate accounts, that's awfully silly, from just a personal information standpoint...

And if you are using separate accounts... guess what? When you switch accounts, any previously running executable (ie CheatEngine) would be suspended on the other account, and would not actively be running on your account.

whoops

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:I am absolutely disgusted by Gaile's update on banwave.

1. She says Anet cares about transparency and respects our privacy and she claims this is why she made an update - this is false information. The only reason this update was posted is because of exposing ArenaNet's dishonesty in terms of data gathering from our PCs.
2. They actually admitted that bans were handed by ASSUMPTION of hacking GW2, just because certain apps are running in the background. It's like locking someone in prison, because such person has knife in a kitchen, so it's POSSIBLE to use it as a crime tool.
3. As expected, some accounts already has been unbanned. So there goes Anet's famous "careful investigation".

This whole case is being handled amateurly. You can start your investigations using process list but every single case must be checked if it's actually hacking.

As a customer, I feel now violated by the actions of the company. First of all, it's dishonest. Second, probably not safe for me as I have no control over what data Anet stole from me. Finally, how can I be sure that their inconsistent, faulty "investigation" process won't make me banned one day because I'm running an app they don't know and they ASSUME it's a hack?

I think it's time for new security lead at anet and restructuring of their internal policies.

Oh? Well allow me to interject quickly.

! Image Name PID Session Name Session# Mem Usage! System Idle Process 0 Services 0 8 K! System 4 Services 0 11,260 K! smss.exe 368 Services 0 32 K! csrss.exe 564 Services 0 1,884 K! wininit.exe 652 Services 0 28 K! csrss.exe 668 Console 1 2,848 K! services.exe 720 Services 0 6,844 K! lsass.exe 740 Services 0 10,844 K! svchost.exe 840 Services 0 920 K! svchost.exe 868 Services 0 21,656 K! fontdrvhost.exe 892 Services 0 572 K! WUDFHost.exe 900 Services 0 340 K! svchost.exe 1012 Services 0 12,672 K! svchost.exe 340 Services 0 4,388 K! winlogon.exe 528 Console 1 1,600 K! fontdrvhost.exe 1036 Console 1 7,044 K! dwm.exe 1092 Console 1 48,568 K! svchost.exe 1216 Services 0 4,716 K! svchost.exe 1248 Services 0 1,092 K! svchost.exe 1324 Services 0 11,440 K! svchost.exe 1360 Services 0 3,108 K! svchost.exe 1368 Services 0 4,800 K! svchost.exe 1448 Services 0 2,196 K! svchost.exe 1456 Services 0 5,348 K! svchost.exe 1548 Services 0 3,660 K! svchost.exe 1604 Services 0 11,880 K! svchost.exe 1620 Services 0 2,192 K! NVDisplay.Container.exe 1676 Services 0 6,284 K! svchost.exe 1716 Services 0 6,424 K! svchost.exe 1860 Services 0 1,496 K! svchost.exe 1940 Services 0 6,060 K! svchost.exe 1948 Services 0 1,688 K! svchost.exe 1956 Services 0 4,300 K! svchost.exe 1976 Services 0 5,064 K! svchost.exe 1988 Services 0 5,164 K! svchost.exe 1996 Services 0 4,120 K! svchost.exe 2088 Services 0 2,724 K! svchost.exe 2152 Services 0 6,028 K! svchost.exe 2164 Services 0 4,528 K! svchost.exe 2244 Services 0 5,608 K! svchost.exe 2252 Services 0 4,328 K! svchost.exe 2260 Services 0 5,776 K! svchost.exe 2292 Services 0 3,336 K! svchost.exe 2320 Services 0 9,052 K! svchost.exe 2672 Services 0 4,768 K! svchost.exe 2764 Services 0 2,448 K! svchost.exe 2772 Services 0 8,468 K! svchost.exe 2808 Services 0 4,780 K! svchost.exe 2872 Services 0 8,408 K! svchost.exe 2968 Services 0 2,228 K! svchost.exe 2976 Services 0 4,476 K! svchost.exe 3032 Services 0 10,000 K! spaceman.exe 3068 Services 0 84 K! svchost.exe 3096 Services 0 2,904 K! svchost.exe 3120 Services 0 4,288 K! svchost.exe 3132 Services 0 14,532 K! conhost.exe 3160 Services 0 772 K! svchost.exe 3200 Services 0 3,060 K! spoolsv.exe 3256 Services 0 4,860 K! svchost.exe 3300 Services 0 5,168 K! svchost.exe 3368 Services 0 17,408 K! svchost.exe 3492 Services 0 13,904 K! svchost.exe 3504 Services 0 2,824 K! svchost.exe 3524 Services 0 20,252 K! svchost.exe 3544 Services 0 34,300 K! svchost.exe 3564 Services 0 11,228 K! svchost.exe 3624 Services 0 1,624 K! svchost.exe 3708 Services 0 11,176 K! svchost.exe 3716 Services 0 24,148 K! svchost.exe 3724 Services 0 1,948 K! HomeServerSMART2013.Servi 3736 Services 0 33,140 K! mDNSResponder.exe 3744 Services 0 2,936 K! PnkBstrA.exe 3760 Services 0 1,580 K! nvcontainer.exe 3768 Services 0 7,616 K! IpOverUsbSvc.exe 3820 Services 0 3,104 K! armsvc.exe 3828 Services 0 1,736 K! SecurityHealthService.exe 3872 Services 0 10,840 K! NvTelemetryContainer.exe 3888 Services 0 6,636 K! sqlwriter.exe 3912 Services 0 2,300 K! OfficeClickToRun.exe 3920 Services 0 26,392 K! svchost.exe 3996 Services 0 3,192 K! Plex Update Service.exe 4012 Services 0 2,568 K! OriginWebHelperService.ex 3680 Services 0 8,664 K! dasHost.exe 3980 Services 0 12,852 K! svchost.exe 4184 Services 0 3,636 K! svchost.exe 4828 Services 0 5,044 K! svchost.exe 6588 Services 0 10,128 K! svchost.exe 7056 Services 0 6,568 K! NVDisplay.Container.exe 6864 Console 1 20,456 K! nvcontainer.exe 6596 Console 1 20,632 K! sihost.exe 4352 Console 1 21,308 K! svchost.exe 4052 Console 1 12,704 K! svchost.exe 4140 Console 1 30,280 K! taskhostw.exe 2656 Console 1 13,084 K! svchost.exe 2364 Services 0 13,708 K! svchost.exe 5256 Services 0 1,992 K! ctfmon.exe 1336 Console 1 9,128 K! explorer.exe 7232 Console 1 158,080 K! GoogleCrashHandler.exe 7440 Services 0 68 K! GoogleCrashHandler64.exe 7892 Services 0 136 K! ShellExperienceHost.exe 660 Console 1 98,944 K! SearchUI.exe 8372 Console 1 190,680 K! RuntimeBroker.exe 8488 Console 1 33,932 K! RuntimeBroker.exe 8564 Console 1 20,368 K! SearchIndexer.exe 8780 Services 0 48,828 K! svchost.exe 8852 Services 0 14,524 K! SettingSyncHost.exe 7460 Console 1 3,424 K! svchost.exe 7252 Console 1 31,168 K! RuntimeBroker.exe 9692 Console 1 31,272 K! RemindersServer.exe 10224 Console 1 9,272 K! RuntimeBroker.exe 4464 Console 1 8,924 K! aida64.exe 9496 Console 1 2,028 K! MSASCuiL.exe 12020 Console 1 3,380 K! svchost.exe 10052 Services 0 2,972 K! LCore.exe 12408 Console 1 96,532 K! WindowSMARTTray.exe 13040 Console 1 13,888 K! RAVCpl64.exe 13128 Console 1 6,496 K! Steam.exe 13248 Console 1 103,256 K! iPodService.exe 12344 Services 0 2,996 K! steamwebhelper.exe 11756 Console 1 29,696 K! steamwebhelper.exe 8400 Console 1 4,160 K! SteamService.exe 9940 Services 0 6,108 K! Discord.exe 13808 Console 1 54,216 K! Plex Media Server.exe 13836 Console 1 48,068 K! acrotray.exe 14028 Console 1 1,472 K! Discord.exe 11828 Console 1 28,080 K! steamwebhelper.exe 12588 Console 1 17,764 K! Discord.exe 6384 Console 1 216,224 K! PlexScriptHost.exe 14120 Console 1 43,188 K! conhost.exe 10104 Console 1 2,620 K! Spotify.exe 8668 Console 1 108,520 K! Spotify.exe 14084 Console 1 2,980 K! Spotify.exe 14480 Console 1 64,992 K! SpotifyWebHelper.exe 14512 Console 1 1,576 K! Spotify.exe 14664 Console 1 193,636 K! svchost.exe 15328 Services 0 11,812 K! Plex DLNA Server.exe 14904 Console 1 5,724 K! Plex Tuner Service.exe 3948 Console 1 2,136 K! conhost.exe 7856 Console 1 1,076 K! svchost.exe 16084 Services 0 4,072 K! svchost.exe 11212 Services 0 2,136 K! ApplicationFrameHost.exe 11384 Console 1 27,068 K! WinStore.App.exe 10548 Console 1 1,600 K! RuntimeBroker.exe 8432 Console 1 7,848 K! Microsoft.Photos.exe 16256 Console 1 6,064 K! RuntimeBroker.exe 732 Console 1 14,656 K! svchost.exe 11956 Services 0 5,840 K! DropboxUpdate.exe 5688 Console 1 124 K! HxCalendarAppImm.exe 9132 Console 1 51,592 K! HxTsr.exe 9528 Console 1 37,144 K! RuntimeBroker.exe 15856 Console 1 7,268 K! RuntimeBroker.exe 3804 Console 1 10,196 K! svchost.exe 11568 Services 0 8,892 K! rundll32.exe 15112 Console 1 8,124 K! SystemSettingsBroker.exe 4200 Console 1 10,972 K! svchost.exe 10896 Services 0 22,332 K! dllhost.exe 2700 Console 1 11,644 K! MsMpEng.exe 12744 Services 0 159,736 K! NisSrv.exe 2536 Services 0 11,172 K! svchost.exe 9324 Services 0 7,208 K! audiodg.exe 11160 Services 0 20,620 K! Calculator.exe 4648 Console 1 39,104 K! RuntimeBroker.exe 8428 Console 1 7,136 K! steamwebhelper.exe 500 Console 1 37,748 K! svchost.exe 16180 Services 0 7,396 K! uTorrent.exe 11868 Console 1 92,104 K! chrome.exe 7404 Console 1 223,396 K! chrome.exe 15980 Console 1 8,712 K! chrome.exe 3396 Console 1 9,228 K! chrome.exe 12872 Console 1 153,596 K! utorrentie.exe 13228 Console 1 33,184 K! utorrentie.exe 7928 Console 1 12,660 K! chrome.exe 3024 Console 1 55,224 K! chrome.exe 3264 Console 1 160,772 K! chrome.exe 11024 Console 1 76,576 K! chrome.exe 16020 Console 1 52,668 K! dllhost.exe 14888 Console 1 7,888 K! WinRAR.exe 9988 Console 1 32,508 K! svchost.exe 2712 Services 0 6,092 K! chrome.exe 5224 Console 1 195,968 K! smartscreen.exe 7656 Console 1 31,592 K! svchost.exe 11908 Services 0 15,708 K! taskhostw.exe 3172 Console 1 18,296 K! svchost.exe 5784 Services 0 8,208 K! backgroundTaskHost.exe 15904 Console 1 24,332 K! chrome.exe 12716 Console 1 118,056 K! cmd.exe 916 Console 1 3,152 K! conhost.exe 9436 Console 1 14,148 K! WmiPrvSE.exe 5196 Services 0 9,552 K! tasklist.exe 5500 Console 1 7,912 K

Oh noes, my personal data! Yeah, see... no big deal. You know what I am currently running on my gaming rig. Gasp. Whatever will I do with my "personal data!" Honestly, the overreacting to this is absurd.

I am absolutely disgusted that you use anything Apple related #ISeeThatIPodHookUp

[HnRkLnXqZ.1870]

One the one hand, there are several players violating the game with cheating-programs, community wants this to end. On the other hand, ANet is not allowed to look for illegal software running while you play the game. Most people here have at least one active google and/or FB account. Your smart-phones are permanently connected with them and some people have their computers permanently connected as well. And at that moment, we have not wasted a single second about the MS accounts ^^. What these three companies know about you is more than any of your family does and probably even some dark secrets you are not aware about yourself. So I have not seen our streets full of people rioting against those three for violating our privacy, yet. The big guys never tell you what they do with your data. You see some adverts on your favorite pages and think that is all - lol.

The complaint I saw a lot was: ANet should only ban those accounts which are 'playing guildwars2 in combination with the cheat-programs' for an extended period of time.

With the given limitations of privacy, and what you people complain about most, this is not possible. You cannot track those cheaters down without collecting data.I spy with my little eye, something begining with C.Don't you dare to open your eye, because you violate my privacy!

Some online-games out there install special guard-systems while installing the real game. These devices pre-load when you launch the client, monitor your connection with the game server and record all game related activities. They are usually advertised, to be necessary to grant you and your account a greater safety. They are also there to prevent 3rd party programs from being used and record data.

-My relationship with the game and the staff was not the best over the past few months. Especially the incident with the CE made me really angry. I am proud of ANet for taking such a drastic action. Aware of the past, I was almost certain they would never harm the cheaters at all. The more surprised I am that they did it now. It requires a lot of courage to give it another try. The stakes are high and the chances to fail again are always present. The cheaters were aware of the risk from the moment they installed the devices. Every criminal operates in the believe of doing the perfect crime, without being caught because he left no visible tracks. Once they get spotted, they deny.

Thank you.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

@Sojar.1495 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Sojar.1495 said:Irrelevant stuff cut out

Nice to see you back. Yesterday you were arguing whole day that every ban is 100% justified. Anet admitted revoking about 60 bans. My question is, at this point, why should anyone find you in any way relevant partner for the discussion? :)

So they repealed 60 bans that were based on a previous method. That changes very little, as they openly admitted it was based on previous data, and those were extenuating circumstances to the overall scope of THIS ban.

Their methods of detection can definitely improve... I'm not arguing that.

As for my relevancy in the discussion, that's entirely your viewpoint. I can't change that any more than I can change the axis tilt of the Earth.

The broader point at this stage is that you have people arguing that they might have been running CheatEngine, innocuously, in tandem with Guild Wars 2. While that might be the case for a very select few of these players, the vast majority were running it to cheat in Guild Wars 2. And those select few... they chose poorly. If they want to appeal their ban with ANET, and they successfully do so, then great! Perhaps they won't make the mistake of running said program while actively having Guild Wars 2 in memory, as it's pretty much logical to assume it's being used for that purpose versus "left running." I'm trying to play Devil's advocate here, but it's very hard considering that it was such a poor choice to do so [run CheatEngine at the same time was GW2.exe] in the first place.

Nice to see your rationalizations about your claims being proven wrong by developer itself :)

[Bloodstealer.5978]

@EnderzShadow.2506 said:

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:

@Vulcaruss.9567 said:Finally I can talk... The length of going to making a new account and purchasing it is irritating at best. ANYWAY. I've been watching this, and to those of you saying Anet is always right, what little world do you live in?... False Positives happen false Bans/Suspensions happen. Now on to my Issue. I will admit I've used a 3rd party program, which do you ask? ArcDPS? No I'm vehemently against DPS meters in this game and think they shouldn't be allowed at all. TACO? Never heard of it till now, don't plan on using it. First before I say, to clarify I'm a Pre-Releaser, Beta-Weekend Player, Collectors Edition Owner. over 6k hours almost 11k AP, Kind of low yes but I'm lazy... I've never once had a reason to exploit or cheat in this game.

When did I last do SPvP? Month or two ago I played one unranked match with a couple of guildies. When was the last time I played WvW? A month or two ago cause I'm forced to grind the place should I desire a legendary for the gift of battle, Short answer, I hate the PvP and Competitiveness of the modes although I will admit I like to duel in my guild hall, I'm a PvE'er, There is no fun or satisfaction in cheating an AI. Now with that cleared up, the 3rd party software i used is called..... RESHADE, Yes the mod that lets you beautify your game making it look less bleached and washed out. Oh I'm such a criminal aren't I? I deserved to get banned right? Just like all you idiots are preaching about the suspensions.... By Balthazars burning buttox people...

Now of all the things I've seen one thing hasn't come up... has anyone even considered Steam? Or maybe Discord? They Inject 3rd party Overlays into the game right? Oh guess what that could be another harmless false positive offense too! Oh boy isn't Anet such good little hacker hunters? I have my game linked into steam, I even have a custom Steamcontroller profile for the game, granted I barely use it cause it's a tad awkward to use... but it's fun to play around with. But who knows! The steam controller macros/keybinds could be throwing a false positive, Oh no! Anet is banning/suspending people for using 3rd Party controllers, whats next? Razer? Logitech? I use the Logitech Gaming Software, G13 Gamepad, and G600 MMO mouse, who's to say they aren't catching that either!? With the utter vagueness and broad swing of these Suspensions with no clear statement on what Arena Net is hunting for, this is a clear over reach.

The sheer fact I received no Email notification on this either baffles me. You proud Ban wave supporters can say what you want, but is a guy like me really what you want targeted? A Harmless individual who never PvP's or WvW's in the competitive sense who just likes to Duel sometimes with his friends, and loves the PvE content? Quite the shameful display.. on both you and Arena Nets lack of communication.... but hey I can't say I'm surprised either. Good Job Anet, I hope to see a response on my ticket... sooner or later.... If not well, I guess after 6 months you'll lose a veteran who's been here since 2007 and sunk countless amounts of money and gems into this game.... But hey who am I kidding, The Ban Wave Supporters will just claim on lying and a butt hurt hacker. Oh isn't internet life fun? have fun Kiddo's and Adults alike!

I admire your wall'o'text honesty.. but if your using those nice little tools that come with things like the Logitech gaming mouse/keyboard gaming software for macro purposes whether its competitive pvp type gameplay or not.. your still gunna get flagged and that is not a false positive when your using macro's that are not allowed, pure and simple. No idea what the steam controller macros are as i dont use steam but it sounds just as risky to me.I too use the G600 and a Logitech gaming keyboard but wouldn't even risk using their respective macro capabilities because . ya know.. macros are not allowed except for music making purposes, which it appears yours was not or you might of mentioned it.

So while I do not at all think your lying I do think you might of been your own worst enemy.As for ANET making any kind of statement as to what they are looking for, other than saying ToS over and over why would they give you detail like that, it just opens the door for the hacksters to immediately look at ways to counter ANETS detection methods even quicker than they will anyway.

I call bull kitten.

A fancy mouse and keyboard are not third party programs.

no the hardware isn't.. the ability to programme it with macro actions that violate the 1 press 1 action rule most definitely are...