I Hope This Ends Misinformation Regarding The Anti-cheat Software

[Deihnyx.6318]

@juhani.5361 said:

@Deihnyx.6318 said:

@"Buy Some Apples.6390" said:The problem again is that Anet cannot prove you were using those cheat programs for GW2, only that you had then running in the background.

I used to play a lot of single player games with cheats, but never used cheats online.Anet cannot differentiate between this due to the shoddy and underhanded way they collected the data.

Yes we need to get rid of cheaters, but the right way!But thanks to anet doing this in the most dumbest way one can do it, the hackers were laughing their heads off as they can easily prevent future bans if this is the best anet can do to ban hackers.

If cheaters are laughing, I would bet it has less to do with Anet's (potential) false positive and more with how people reacted to it and the bad press that followed on the web.Because of that, and because of the misinformation surrounding privacy and "spyware" in general, you can be sure that they'll be free to do whatever they want for a while.

It has to do with how Anet handled the whole thing from the get-go. Gaming companies are pretty notorious for riding roughshod over their customers' PCs and consumer rights in the name of intellectual property and/or "cheating." The shady practices of the gaming industry as a whole spark this kind of skepticism-- and rightfully so. We have decades now of clandestine installs of SecuROM, rootkits, etc. with no concrete information to back up their true dangers. For a cautious person to protect him/herself, it's been pretty standard practice to rely on half-information, wikis, forums, etc. The exact kind of thing we've seen on Reddit and Massively. If you haven't been cautious these last few decades, well, you'll probably never get it ;)

To date, we've had the following:

1) Anet clandestinely installs some sort of monitoring component via a patch.2) Anet clandestinely removes said component a few weeks later.3) A security professional catches part of it with tools he had open and posts the results.4) Anet gives a few details but never specifically denies what the professional said.5) Some refinement, but no definitive answers from another Reddit poster who dove deeper into the data captured by said security professional.6) No statement by Anet at all, confirming or denying anything that's happened.7) Finally, weeks later, the truth in a single customer support response to a single customer.

Steps 1-3 (sometimes 4) are pretty routine any time any of this stuff is caught. Then there's lots of furor and anger. Then resignation or a spate of lost customers. It's natural to be skeptical. It's prudent to be cautious. The history of the gaming industry as a whole should spark both of those reactions even with cleaner companies like Anet. If we'd just gone directly from steps 3--->7, none of this would have happened.

@Oldirtbeard.9834 said:

@Theros.1390 said:

@Oldirtbeard.9834 said:This post is meant to be constructive and to help heal some of the strife and misinformation regarding the recent wave of Bans. For almost 2 weeks we've been speculating what this software was collecting and whether it could lead to false positives, unfortunately there has not been an official statement as far as I can tell.

I recently received an answer to a Support Ticket regarding my privacy concerns which I filed because I wanted an official word directly from the company, some transparency.

I'm glad to say I have it and I'm sharing my response with you, I'm not sure if this is kosher but I feel and think this is important.

Lead GM MagisterToday at 18:00Greetings ,

The detection process, which we ran from 3/6/2018 to 3/27/2018, identified if a version associated to one of five separate programs we previously disclosed on 4/14/2018 was running on your computer at the same time as Guild Wars 2. The data sent back to ArenaNet was a yes or no to whether or not we detected one of those programs. No other data was sent to ArenaNet as part of the detection method.Regards,

Lead GM MagisterGuild Wars 2 Support Team

http://help.guildwars2.com/

At least it's clear.

And, knowing that was the only way to catch the cheaters, I'm gonna say this is fine.

with any annoucement, fore sure peoples would not run their tiers during the oversight period.

They should make it permanent now that we know it's minimally invasive, if it's up all the time like WoWs Warden then no more hacks instead of people laying low for a month.

And that would be the smart thing for Anet to do. I'm baffled why the monitoring components were only installed for a limited time. Any _real_cheater would chill for the month. All Anet got out of this was some false positives and low-hanging fruit. And did a lot of damage to its reputation in the process.

This whole episode has been one giant plate of stupid, with side helpings of faux-pas.

I'm not sure how they could have gone from 3 to 7.It would have been their word against that "professional". And no matter the fact that there was no proof (afaik) that this guy was a "professional", no matter the fact that he had been cheating in other games, no matter the fact that being directly involved in the ban, his declaration was most probably biased, people in general tend to freak out and become extremely suspicious when the word "spyware" is used.We live in an era where because of the action of some companies, all companies are automatically guilty, until proven innocent.

[Holykitten.3064]

@Oldirtbeard.9834 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:

@Oldirtbeard.9834 said:

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:I wonder why some players/posters take/took the word of another posters claiming to be a security expert (I mean anyone can say anything on the internet; I didn't see any proof), but vehemently state that ArenaNet is stating untruths? If there is no proof for ArenaNet's statements, there is also no proof for posters-in-a-thread's statements. :confused:

Which is why I waited for an official statement and filed a ticket.

Oh come now, you cannot feign innocence when you were on board with the witchhunt just because you're featured in a Massively Article.

True, but that was an initial reaction; in that other thread I stated I wanted something official (while not arguing over contract law and minors).

Actually you were one of the first to initiate that argument. The thread is closed, not unreadable. But that is neither here nor there now.

I only shared that article because I wanted show is attempted to get everything straight in the public too, especially since my blood was boiling those first few days.

People believe what they want to.We take that post from this “security expert” which was basically a more sophisticated torch and pitchfork post at the start, until proof came about that this codes findings were indeed filtered client side before matches to what Anet was searching for specifically, was pinged back to them.Many have known already before you posted your ticket response because of this reddit users slight back-pedalling edits. But people, most likely this who were banned, will also still come up with their excuses about why this ban wave was unethical/unlawful/harmful etc until the cows come home, and no amount of info, from Anet or anyone else, will change their opinion.

[Oldirtbeard.9834]

@Haleydawn.3764 said:

@Oldirtbeard.9834 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:

@Oldirtbeard.9834 said:

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:I wonder why some players/posters take/took the word of another posters claiming to be a security expert (I mean anyone can say anything on the internet; I didn't see any proof), but vehemently state that ArenaNet is stating untruths? If there is no proof for ArenaNet's statements, there is also no proof for posters-in-a-thread's statements. :confused:

Which is why I waited for an official statement and filed a ticket.

Oh come now, you cannot feign innocence when you were on board with the witchhunt just because you're featured in a Massively Article.

True, but that was an initial reaction; in that other thread I stated I wanted something official (while not arguing over contract law and minors).

Actually you were one of the first to initiate

that

argument. The thread is closed, not unreadable. But that is neither here nor there now.

I only shared that article because I wanted show is attempted to get everything straight in the public too, especially since my blood was boiling those first few days.

People believe what they want to.We take that post from this “security expert” which was basically a more sophisticated torch and pitchfork post at the start, until proof came about that this codes findings were indeed filtered client side before matches to what Anet was searching for specifically, was pinged back to them.Many have known already before you posted your ticket response because of this reddit users slight back-pedalling edits. But people, most likely this who were banned, will also still come up with their excuses about why this ban wave was unethical/unlawful/harmful etc until the cows come home, and no amount of info, from Anet or anyone else, will change their opinion.

I do the right thing here and you're giving me grief, just say thanks for doing something decent and drop it.

[Laila Lightness.8742]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:I wonder why some players/posters take/took the word of another posters claiming to be a security expert (I mean anyone can say anything on the internet; I didn't see any proof), but vehemently state that ArenaNet is stating untruths? If there is no proof for ArenaNet's statements, there is also no proof for posters-in-a-thread's statements. :confused:

People are more likely to believe what aligns with their own beliefs. There are a lot of people who distrust Anet and think the worst that found that thread to be nothing but a confirmation of their own beliefs.

People will belive in anything either for wanting it to be true ore fear it to be true

[Rasimir.6239]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:I didn't realize someone can run cheat software legitimately.

Actually CE, despite its name, is simply an open source tool that allows you to debug and fiddle with any software running on your computer. I know a few freelance software professionals who in fact use it for work purposes, sometimes on the same machine that they're playing games on. To them it's simply a low-cost alternative to expensive brand debuggers.

[TheOrlyFactor.8341]

@Oldirtbeard.9834 said:

@Haleydawn.3764 said:

@Oldirtbeard.9834 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:

@Oldirtbeard.9834 said:

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:I wonder why some players/posters take/took the word of another posters claiming to be a security expert (I mean anyone can say anything on the internet; I didn't see any proof), but vehemently state that ArenaNet is stating untruths? If there is no proof for ArenaNet's statements, there is also no proof for posters-in-a-thread's statements. :confused:

Which is why I waited for an official statement and filed a ticket.

Oh come now, you cannot feign innocence when you were on board with the witchhunt just because you're featured in a Massively Article.

True, but that was an initial reaction; in that other thread I stated I wanted something official (while not arguing over contract law and minors).

Actually you were one of the first to initiate

that

argument. The thread is closed, not unreadable. But that is neither here nor there now.

I only shared that article because I wanted show is attempted to get everything straight in the public too, especially since my blood was boiling those first few days.

People believe what they want to.We take that post from this “security expert” which was basically a more sophisticated torch and pitchfork post at the start, until proof came about that this codes findings were indeed filtered client side before matches to what Anet was searching for specifically, was pinged back to them.Many have known already before you posted your ticket response because of this reddit users slight back-pedalling edits. But people, most likely this who were banned, will also still come up with their excuses about why this ban wave was unethical/unlawful/harmful etc until the cows come home, and no amount of info, from Anet or anyone else, will change their opinion.

I do the right thing here and you're giving me grief, just say thanks for doing something decent and drop it.

Sadly some people here aren't happy unless they're being confrontational and/or downright aggressive to other users, no matter if they're trying to do the right thing and/or trying to learn the error of their ways or even just minding their own business.

[Laila Lightness.8742]

@Rasimir.6239 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:I didn't realize someone can run cheat software legitimately.

Actually CE, despite its name, is simply an open source tool that allows you to debug and fiddle with any software running on your computer. I know a few freelance software professionals who in fact use it for work purposes, sometimes on the same machine that they're playing games on. To them it's simply a low-cost alternative to expensive brand debuggers.

That is what most cheat software do since debugging allows you to open up the games codes

[Charrbeque.8729]

@Rasimir.6239 said:

@"Ayrilana.1396" said:I didn't realize someone can run cheat software legitimately.

Actually CE, despite its name, is simply an open source tool that allows you to debug and fiddle with any software running on your computer. I know a few freelance software professionals who in fact use it for work purposes, sometimes on the same machine that they're playing games on. To them it's simply a low-cost alternative to expensive brand debuggers.

OK. I did a Google search. Time to put this cheat engine nonsense to rest.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheat_EngineStraight from Wikipedia:

Cheat Engine, commonly abbreviated as CE, is an open source memory scanner/hex editor/debugger created by Eric Heijnen ("Dark Byte") for the Windows operating system.[3] Cheat Engine is mostly used for cheating in computer games, and is sometimes modified and recompiled to evade detection. This program resembles L. Spiro's Memory Hacking Software, TSearch, and ArtMoney. It searches for values input by the user with a wide variety of options that allow the user to find and sort through the computer's memory. Cheat Engine can also create standalone trainers that can operate independently of Cheat Engine.

Only a debugging tool my ass! You wouldn't need to "evade detection" in single player offline only games. ArenaNet wouldn't have looked for this software running with GW2 if they didn't think it was a problem.

Read the "Controversy" section on the Wikipedia article:

Entertainment Software Association (ESA) sent a copyright infringement notice asking Dark Byte to cease and desist. The notice claimed Cheat Engine allowed evading anti-cheat technologies, accessing in-game DLC items/micro transaction items that could only be bought with real money. Dark Byte responded by shutting down the cheat tables section to public asking them to be hosted off-site and coming to an agreement with ESA

It seems like it's still being developed, and it's possible the software is only used for single player games nowadays.

But it seems like cheat engine was targeted and shut down only a little over a year ago. https://zerolives.com/article/trgskQ6z/major-video-game-publishers-target-memory-scanner-cheat-engine-with-questionable-copyright-infringement-notices

The thing is though, some people are under the impression that ArenaNet monitored the game for cheats for only 3 weeks in March 2018 and only players cheating during that time period were nailed. But I've seen comments on the internet to suggest that some players who hadn't played GW2 for many months got hit in the banwave. (In particular, the creator of the UNF cheat said something about everyone using UNF that got suspended hadn't logged into the game for a long time and/or stopped playing GW2 all together a long time ago.) So it's possible some players using CE were using it for GW2 quite some time ago. The banwave could have hit some people who haven't used cheat software for a year or more.

[Oldirtbeard.9834]

@TheOrlyFactor.8341 said:

@Oldirtbeard.9834 said:

@Haleydawn.3764 said:

@Oldirtbeard.9834 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:

@Oldirtbeard.9834 said:

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:I wonder why some players/posters take/took the word of another posters claiming to be a security expert (I mean anyone can say anything on the internet; I didn't see any proof), but vehemently state that ArenaNet is stating untruths? If there is no proof for ArenaNet's statements, there is also no proof for posters-in-a-thread's statements. :confused:

Which is why I waited for an official statement and filed a ticket.

Oh come now, you cannot feign innocence when you were on board with the witchhunt just because you're featured in a Massively Article.

True, but that was an initial reaction; in that other thread I stated I wanted something official (while not arguing over contract law and minors).

Actually you were one of the first to initiate

that

argument. The thread is closed, not unreadable. But that is neither here nor there now.

I only shared that article because I wanted show is attempted to get everything straight in the public too, especially since my blood was boiling those first few days.

People believe what they want to.We take that post from this “security expert” which was basically a more sophisticated torch and pitchfork post at the start, until proof came about that this codes findings were indeed filtered client side before matches to what Anet was searching for specifically, was pinged back to them.Many have known already before you posted your ticket response because of this reddit users slight back-pedalling edits. But people, most likely this who were banned, will also still come up with their excuses about why this ban wave was unethical/unlawful/harmful etc until the cows come home, and no amount of info, from Anet or anyone else, will change their opinion.

I do the right thing here and you're giving me grief, just say thanks for doing something decent and drop it.

Sadly some people here aren't happy unless they're being confrontational and/or downright aggressive to other users, no matter if they're trying to do the right thing and/or trying to learn the error of their ways or even just minding their own business.

To give her credit I'm no angel either and she's been on the right side of arguments before after I had gone toxic. I unfortunately can be a very toxic person if I get passionate on a subject. I'm doing my best to keep it clean and on the level so people can see that official stance from ANet.

[Charrbeque.8729]

@Charrbeque.8729 said:

@Rasimir.6239 said:

@"Ayrilana.1396" said:I didn't realize someone can run cheat software legitimately.

Actually CE, despite its name, is simply an open source tool that allows you to debug and fiddle with any software running on your computer. I know a few freelance software professionals who in fact use it for work purposes, sometimes on the same machine that they're playing games on. To them it's simply a low-cost alternative to expensive brand debuggers.

OK. I did a Google search. Time to put this cheat engine nonsense to rest.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheat_Engine

Straight from Wikipedia:

Cheat Engine, commonly abbreviated as CE, is an open source memory scanner/hex editor/debugger created by Eric Heijnen ("Dark Byte") for the Windows operating system.[3]

Cheat Engine is mostly used for cheating in computer games, and is sometimes modified and recompiled to evade detection.

This program resembles L. Spiro's Memory Hacking Software, TSearch, and ArtMoney. It searches for values input by the user with a wide variety of options that allow the user to find and sort through the computer's memory. Cheat Engine can also create standalone trainers that can operate independently of Cheat Engine.

Only a debugging tool my kitten! You wouldn't need to "evade detection" in single player offline only games. ArenaNet wouldn't have looked for this software running with GW2 if they didn't think it was a problem.

Read the "Controversy" section on the Wikipedia article:

Entertainment Software Association (ESA) sent a copyright infringement notice asking Dark Byte to cease and desist. The notice claimed

Cheat Engine allowed evading anti-cheat technologies, accessing in-game DLC items/micro transaction items that could only be bought with real money.

Dark Byte responded by shutting down the cheat tables section to public asking them to be hosted off-site and coming to an agreement with ESA

It seems like it's still being developed, and it's possible the software is only used for single player games nowadays.

But it seems like cheat engine was targeted and shut down only a little over a year ago.

https://zerolives.com/article/trgskQ6z/major-video-game-publishers-target-memory-scanner-cheat-engine-with-questionable-copyright-infringement-notices

The thing is though, some people are under the impression that ArenaNet monitored the game for cheats for only 3 weeks in March 2018 and only players cheating during that time period were nailed. But I've seen comments on the internet to suggest that some players who hadn't played GW2 for many months got hit in the banwave. So it's possible some players using CE were using it for GW2 quite some time ago. The banwave could have hit some people who haven't used cheat software for a year or more.

I'mma just quote myself, and try to look at things more objectively.

Looking around on the net, it's quite possible that CE was originally intended only for single player games. What may have happened was somebody found a way to modify it to make it work with online games. (From the looks of things, CE was open source, so obviously someone found a way to make it work for online games.)

It's possible players suspended from GW2 for having CE running weren't actually using it to cheat in GW2. But........since it was actually used for online games and became a problem for online game companies in the past, ArenaNet didn't want to take any chances with it and suspended people just for having it running.

No way to know for sure unless ArenaNet made a public statement to further clarify the situation.

[Bloodstealer.5978]

@Oldirtbeard.9834 said:

@Theros.1390 said:

@Oldirtbeard.9834 said:This post is meant to be constructive and to help heal some of the strife and misinformation regarding the recent wave of Bans. For almost 2 weeks we've been speculating what this software was collecting and whether it could lead to false positives, unfortunately there has not been an official statement as far as I can tell.

I recently received an answer to a Support Ticket regarding my privacy concerns which I filed because I wanted an official word directly from the company, some transparency.

I'm glad to say I have it and I'm sharing my response with you, I'm not sure if this is kosher but I feel and think this is important.

Lead GM MagisterToday at 18:00Greetings ,

The detection process, which we ran from 3/6/2018 to 3/27/2018, identified if a version associated to one of five separate programs we previously disclosed on 4/14/2018 was running on your computer at the same time as Guild Wars 2. The data sent back to ArenaNet was a yes or no to whether or not we detected one of those programs. No other data was sent to ArenaNet as part of the detection method.Regards,

Lead GM MagisterGuild Wars 2 Support Team

http://help.guildwars2.com/

At least it's clear.

And, knowing that was the only way to catch the cheaters, I'm gonna say this is fine.

with any annoucement, fore sure peoples would not run their tiers during the oversight period.

They should make it permanent now that we know it's minimally invasive, if it's up all the time like WoWs Warden then no more hacks instead of people laying low for a month.

If only it was that easy. The hackers have likelybalready plugged that hole so that detection will be next to useless that's why catching cheats in any game is timely and expensive... but yes I hope and makes a concerted effort to try to stay ahead of the hackers from hereonin

[Oldirtbeard.9834]

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:

@Oldirtbeard.9834 said:

@Theros.1390 said:

@Oldirtbeard.9834 said:This post is meant to be constructive and to help heal some of the strife and misinformation regarding the recent wave of Bans. For almost 2 weeks we've been speculating what this software was collecting and whether it could lead to false positives, unfortunately there has not been an official statement as far as I can tell.

I recently received an answer to a Support Ticket regarding my privacy concerns which I filed because I wanted an official word directly from the company, some transparency.

I'm glad to say I have it and I'm sharing my response with you, I'm not sure if this is kosher but I feel and think this is important.

Lead GM MagisterToday at 18:00Greetings ,

The detection process, which we ran from 3/6/2018 to 3/27/2018, identified if a version associated to one of five separate programs we previously disclosed on 4/14/2018 was running on your computer at the same time as Guild Wars 2. The data sent back to ArenaNet was a yes or no to whether or not we detected one of those programs. No other data was sent to ArenaNet as part of the detection method.Regards,

Lead GM MagisterGuild Wars 2 Support Team

http://help.guildwars2.com/

At least it's clear.

And, knowing that was the only way to catch the cheaters, I'm gonna say this is fine.

with any annoucement, fore sure peoples would not run their tiers during the oversight period.

They should make it permanent now that we know it's minimally invasive, if it's up all the time like WoWs Warden then no more hacks instead of people laying low for a month.

If only it was that easy. The hackers have likelybalready plugged that hole so that detection will be next to useless that's why catching cheats in any game is timely and expensive... but yes I hope and makes a concerted effort to try to stay ahead of the hackers from hereonin

Patch it every 3 months, while not perfect it could line up with PVP seasons to cut their legs out from under hackers in the first few weeks of the season.

[Bloodstealer.5978]

@Oldirtbeard.9834 said:

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:This statement may calm you down in terms of privacy but it doesn't remove the possibility of false positives.

Here we go again

To be fair no detection software if fool proof, that's why we have appeals which isn't perfect either.

His points are slightly askew of the topic but it's still valid territory.

I think there's room for both of your arguments, in way you are both correct in different circumstances.

This is the exact element that started derailing the last thread.This thread is about clearing up all the heresay and conjecture surrounding the spyware, ANET broke the privacy laws rubbish not about ANET banning players wrongfully... that us what appeals are for and the fact they posted to say if you have a problem contact them has provided the necessary platform to get any false positives sorted out.... so better to keep this thread on track and kick any derailing comments out imo.

[Charrbeque.8729]

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:

@Oldirtbeard.9834 said:

@Theros.1390 said:

@Oldirtbeard.9834 said:This post is meant to be constructive and to help heal some of the strife and misinformation regarding the recent wave of Bans. For almost 2 weeks we've been speculating what this software was collecting and whether it could lead to false positives, unfortunately there has not been an official statement as far as I can tell.

I recently received an answer to a Support Ticket regarding my privacy concerns which I filed because I wanted an official word directly from the company, some transparency.

I'm glad to say I have it and I'm sharing my response with you, I'm not sure if this is kosher but I feel and think this is important.

Lead GM MagisterToday at 18:00Greetings ,

The detection process, which we ran from 3/6/2018 to 3/27/2018, identified if a version associated to one of five separate programs we previously disclosed on 4/14/2018 was running on your computer at the same time as Guild Wars 2. The data sent back to ArenaNet was a yes or no to whether or not we detected one of those programs. No other data was sent to ArenaNet as part of the detection method.Regards,

Lead GM MagisterGuild Wars 2 Support Team

http://help.guildwars2.com/

At least it's clear.

And, knowing that was the only way to catch the cheaters, I'm gonna say this is fine.

with any annoucement, fore sure peoples would not run their tiers during the oversight period.

They should make it permanent now that we know it's minimally invasive, if it's up all the time like WoWs Warden then no more hacks instead of people laying low for a month.

If only it was that easy. The hackers have likelybalready plugged that hole so that detection will be next to useless that's why catching cheats in any game is timely and expensive... but yes I hope and makes a concerted effort to try to stay ahead of the hackers from hereonin

Yep. They already figured out what ArenaNet did and have updated things.

Screenshot of a comment by the creator of the UNF cheat software: https://imgur.com/a/3HNxbCL

Since the banwave, the UNF creator has bragged many times about cheating to his/her hearts content without ever getting banned/suspended (even bragging about having multiple things running at the same time in sPVP). Odd that the creator of the cheat software, who uses it all the time, doesn't get nailed in the banwave.

Also of note: UNF creator brags about something called 'ESP' not getting detected and having already updated the software to make sure it stays that way. From what I can tell, this 'ESP' thingy has some kind of connection to UNF and Nabster.

So yeah. They already figured out what was done to detect their software, and seem to have no intention of ever throwing in the towel.

The question is: will ArenaNet continue to crack down on cheaters, or is this a one time only thing?

[Bloodstealer.5978]

@Charrbeque.8729 said:

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:

@Oldirtbeard.9834 said:

@Theros.1390 said:

@Oldirtbeard.9834 said:This post is meant to be constructive and to help heal some of the strife and misinformation regarding the recent wave of Bans. For almost 2 weeks we've been speculating what this software was collecting and whether it could lead to false positives, unfortunately there has not been an official statement as far as I can tell.

I recently received an answer to a Support Ticket regarding my privacy concerns which I filed because I wanted an official word directly from the company, some transparency.

I'm glad to say I have it and I'm sharing my response with you, I'm not sure if this is kosher but I feel and think this is important.

Lead GM MagisterToday at 18:00Greetings ,

The detection process, which we ran from 3/6/2018 to 3/27/2018, identified if a version associated to one of five separate programs we previously disclosed on 4/14/2018 was running on your computer at the same time as Guild Wars 2. The data sent back to ArenaNet was a yes or no to whether or not we detected one of those programs. No other data was sent to ArenaNet as part of the detection method.Regards,

Lead GM MagisterGuild Wars 2 Support Team

http://help.guildwars2.com/

At least it's clear.

And, knowing that was the only way to catch the cheaters, I'm gonna say this is fine.

with any annoucement, fore sure peoples would not run their tiers during the oversight period.

They should make it permanent now that we know it's minimally invasive, if it's up all the time like WoWs Warden then no more hacks instead of people laying low for a month.

If only it was that easy. The hackers have likelybalready plugged that hole so that detection will be next to useless that's why catching cheats in any game is timely and expensive... but yes I hope and makes a concerted effort to try to stay ahead of the hackers from hereonin

Yep. They already figured out what ArenaNet did and have updated things.

Screenshot of a comment by the creator of the UNF cheat software:

https://imgur.com/a/3HNxbCL

Since the banwave, the UNF creator has bragged many times about cheating to his/her hearts content without ever getting banned/suspended (even bragging about having multiple things running at the same time in sPVP). Odd that the creator of the cheat software, who uses it all the time, doesn't get nailed in the banwave.

Also of note: UNF creator brags about something called 'ESP' not getting detected and having already updated the software to make sure it stays that way. From what I can tell, this 'ESP' thingy has some kind of connection to UNF and Nabster.

So yeah. They already figured out what was done to detect their software, and seem to have no intention of ever throwing in the towel.

The question is: will ArenaNet continue to crack down on cheaters, or is this a one time only thing?

Yeah I reported this in the lastvthread and gave them links to those same hackers bragging on their forums.... hence the term cat and mouse

[Oldirtbeard.9834]

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:

@Charrbeque.8729 said:

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:

@Oldirtbeard.9834 said:

@Theros.1390 said:

@Oldirtbeard.9834 said:This post is meant to be constructive and to help heal some of the strife and misinformation regarding the recent wave of Bans. For almost 2 weeks we've been speculating what this software was collecting and whether it could lead to false positives, unfortunately there has not been an official statement as far as I can tell.

I recently received an answer to a Support Ticket regarding my privacy concerns which I filed because I wanted an official word directly from the company, some transparency.

I'm glad to say I have it and I'm sharing my response with you, I'm not sure if this is kosher but I feel and think this is important.

Lead GM MagisterToday at 18:00Greetings ,

The detection process, which we ran from 3/6/2018 to 3/27/2018, identified if a version associated to one of five separate programs we previously disclosed on 4/14/2018 was running on your computer at the same time as Guild Wars 2. The data sent back to ArenaNet was a yes or no to whether or not we detected one of those programs. No other data was sent to ArenaNet as part of the detection method.Regards,

Lead GM MagisterGuild Wars 2 Support Team

http://help.guildwars2.com/

At least it's clear.

And, knowing that was the only way to catch the cheaters, I'm gonna say this is fine.

with any annoucement, fore sure peoples would not run their tiers during the oversight period.

They should make it permanent now that we know it's minimally invasive, if it's up all the time like WoWs Warden then no more hacks instead of people laying low for a month.

If only it was that easy. The hackers have likelybalready plugged that hole so that detection will be next to useless that's why catching cheats in any game is timely and expensive... but yes I hope and makes a concerted effort to try to stay ahead of the hackers from hereonin

Yep. They already figured out what ArenaNet did and have updated things.

Screenshot of a comment by the creator of the UNF cheat software:

https://imgur.com/a/3HNxbCL

Since the banwave, the UNF creator has bragged many times about cheating to his/her hearts content without ever getting banned/suspended (even bragging about having multiple things running at the same time in sPVP). Odd that the creator of the cheat software, who uses it all the time, doesn't get nailed in the banwave.

Also of note: UNF creator brags about something called 'ESP' not getting detected and having already updated the software to make sure it stays that way. From what I can tell, this 'ESP' thingy has some kind of connection to UNF and Nabster.

So yeah. They already figured out what was done to detect their software, and seem to have no intention of ever throwing in the towel.

The question is: will ArenaNet continue to crack down on cheaters, or is this a one time only thing?

Yeah I reported this in the lastvthread and gave them links to those same hackers bragging on their forums.... hence the term cat and mouse

Unfortunately only Blizzard and Zenimax have the war chests to take people like that to court.

[Rasimir.6239]

@"Charrbeque.8729" said:Only a debugging tool my kitten! You wouldn't need to "evade detection" in single player offline only games. ArenaNet wouldn't have looked for this software running with GW2 if they didn't think it was a problem.I never said people weren't using it to cheat. I just said that there are people (probably no more than a handful out of the 1.5k banned) that have been using CE for non-cheating purposes.

For reference, I've extensively played around with manipulating games and game files back when I was in university, in my early 20s. Back then it was pretty standard to go at savegames using hex editors (yes, I'm that old) and such, and figuring stuff out actually was a lot of fun. It was also single player only, as there weren't any online games around at the time (best we could come up with was a dozend friends carrying their computers to one person's house to hook up with each other for some very basic multiplayer games ... still offline ;) ).

Today's hackers are very different from when I was young and into that kind of thing. There seems to be a lot more "let's take advantage" and a lot less "let's take it apart to figure out how it works just for fun" than there used to be in my days. Still there are people taking apart stuff for fun and/or for a living, and I know that at least one person got caught in this banwave for exactly that reason.

I don't care to judge whether ANet did the best they can on this front or not, as I have no further insight into their thought process. Just wanted to point out that there is in fact the (rare) possibility to get caught in this for using the software for other purposes than cheating.

[Charrbeque.8729]

And on the topic of sending data to a company: anybody using Windows 10?

Yeahhhhh. https://imgur.com/a/sfhudbX

No option not to send data to Microsoft. You're always sending something to them. So if you want to complain about ArenaNet invading privacy, you could use the same argument about Microsoft, or pretty much any software company or website out there. You could probably modify Windows somehow so you don't send data to Microsoft, but you would really have to know what you're doing and would run the risk of your OS not working properly.

ArenaNet basically did what everybody else does. Except not on a massive scale like Facebook or Twitter, who takes everything you post and sells it to advertisers, while telling you to your face they will never share your data with anyone.

All ArenaNet did was check to see if specific software was running at the same time as the game. Anything not relevant to that was ignored.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

@"Charrbeque.8729" said:And on the topic of sending data to a company: anybody using Windows 10?

Yeahhhhh. https://imgur.com/a/sfhudbX

No option not to send data to Microsoft. You're always sending something to them. So if you want to complain about ArenaNet invading privacy, you could use the same argument about Microsoft, or pretty much any software company or website out there. You could probably modify Windows somehow so you don't send data to Microsoft, but you would really have to know what you're doing and would run the risk of your OS not working properly.

ArenaNet basically did what everybody else does. Except not on a massive scale like Facebook or Twitter, who takes everything you post and sells it to advertisers, while telling you to your face they will never share your data with anyone.

All ArenaNet did was check to see if specific software was running at the same time as the game. Anything not relevant to that was ignored.

I love this argument because it proves how successful the corrupted IT/game dev industry is. "I can do this because everyone else does this". No, it doesn't work like that and finally regulators around the world are becoming more aware of the internet privacy problem. Big companies made you believe it's okay you are being spied on because everyone does. EU is starting doing something about it so maybe finally customers no longer be slaves to IT/game dev companies.

[Charrbeque.8729]

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@"Charrbeque.8729" said:And on the topic of sending data to a company: anybody using Windows 10?

Yeahhhhh.

https://imgur.com/a/sfhudbX

No option not to send data to Microsoft. You're always sending something to them. So if you want to complain about ArenaNet invading privacy, you could use the same argument about Microsoft, or pretty much any software company or website out there. You could probably modify Windows somehow so you don't send data to Microsoft, but you would really have to know what you're doing and would run the risk of your OS not working properly.

ArenaNet basically did what everybody else does. Except not on a massive scale like Facebook or Twitter, who takes everything you post and sells it to advertisers, while telling you to your face they will never share your data with anyone.

All ArenaNet did was check to see if specific software was running at the same time as the game. Anything not relevant to that was ignored.

I love this argument because it proves how successful the corrupted IT/game dev industry is. "I can do this because everyone else does this". No, it doesn't work like that and finally regulators around the world are becoming more aware of the internet privacy problem. Big companies made you believe it's okay you are being spied on because everyone does. EU is starting doing something about it so maybe finally customers no longer be slaves to IT/game dev companies.

The point I was trying to make is ArenaNet is doing what everyone else is, but they do it for very specific purposes and try to be the least intrusive as possible, while a lot of others are scanning your computer for anything they want.

The problem is people are making it out as though ArenaNet was scanning everything on your computer when they weren't. If they were looking at your cat video collection, or to see what type of hoo-hah videos you're into, I could understand the invasion of privacy argument. People are just blowing things out of proportion and assuming the absolute worse without any evidence to back up their claims.

[Rashagar.8349]

@"FrizzFreston.5290" said:Thinking about it, I wouldnt be surprised most of the stuff being said was more about creating a controversy rather than providing actual information.

Almost certainly yes.

I'm just glad I missed this latest "controversy", for the sake of my own mental well being.

@Oldirtbeard.9834 said:I do the right thing here and you're giving me grief, just say thanks for doing something decent and drop it.

That's a good point. Thanks OP for this thread. It's much much nicer to have this be how I'm hearing about the issue than only hearing via whatever petered out rumours might still exist in 6 months time.

[Oldirtbeard.9834]

@Vegeta.2563 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Haleydawn.3764 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Charrbeque.8729 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Charrbeque.8729 said:And on the topic of sending data to a company: anybody using Windows 10?

Yeahhhhh.

https://imgur.com/a/sfhudbX

No option not to send data to Microsoft. You're always sending something to them. So if you want to complain about ArenaNet invading privacy, you could use the same argument about Microsoft, or pretty much any software company or website out there. You could probably modify Windows somehow so you don't send data to Microsoft, but you would really have to know what you're doing and would run the risk of your OS not working properly.

ArenaNet basically did what everybody else does. Except not on a massive scale like Facebook or Twitter, who takes everything you post and sells it to advertisers, while telling you to your face they will never share your data with anyone.

All ArenaNet did was check to see if specific software was running at the same time as the game. Anything not relevant to that was ignored.

I love this argument because it proves how successful the corrupted IT/game dev industry is. "I can do this because everyone else does this". No, it doesn't work like that and finally regulators around the world are becoming more aware of the internet privacy problem. Big companies made you believe it's okay you are being spied on because everyone does. EU is starting doing something about it so maybe finally customers no longer be slaves to IT/game dev companies.

The point I was trying to make is ArenaNet is doing what everyone else is, but they do it for very specific purposes and try to be the least intrusive as possible, while a lot of others are scanning your computer for anything they want.

The problem is people are making it out as though ArenaNet was scanning everything on your computer when they weren't. If they were looking at your cat video collection, or to see what type of hoo-hah videos you're into, I could understand the invasion of privacy argument. People are just blowing things out of proportion and assuming the absolute worse without any evidence to back up their claims.

Well yes, Anet's actions are on smaller scale than big players on the market. However, being less evil is still evil.

If we take it for what we know though, Anet is only retrieving data if what you are running is matching what they are searching for (cheat programs). If you aren't running that which is being searched for, NOTHING is being sent to Anet that shouldn't be. So nothing to be worried about, no? You're either running questionable software while playing (reasonable doubt), or you're not. It's a very simple concept. Many court cases end in conviction based on reasonable doubt. Anet has opened up the ability to send a ticket about your (general) ban (if you were). So if a ban was unwarranted, you will be unbanned.Don't forget Anet can view metrics of character input and positioning when they like, that data is stored.

I wish they did account research before banning people.

Tell me about it.. friend of mine got banned because he used cheat engine on FF14 for Infinite Mana or whatever.. but never closed FF14 or Cheat Engine out to login to gw2 to quickly grab his daily login reward. So he got hit with 6 month ban because of it.

Karma works in mysterious ways?

[Holykitten.3064]

@Oldirtbeard.9834 said:

@Vegeta.2563 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Haleydawn.3764 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Charrbeque.8729 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Charrbeque.8729 said:And on the topic of sending data to a company: anybody using Windows 10?

Yeahhhhh.

https://imgur.com/a/sfhudbX

No option not to send data to Microsoft. You're always sending something to them. So if you want to complain about ArenaNet invading privacy, you could use the same argument about Microsoft, or pretty much any software company or website out there. You could probably modify Windows somehow so you don't send data to Microsoft, but you would really have to know what you're doing and would run the risk of your OS not working properly.

ArenaNet basically did what everybody else does. Except not on a massive scale like Facebook or Twitter, who takes everything you post and sells it to advertisers, while telling you to your face they will never share your data with anyone.

All ArenaNet did was check to see if specific software was running at the same time as the game. Anything not relevant to that was ignored.

I love this argument because it proves how successful the corrupted IT/game dev industry is. "I can do this because everyone else does this". No, it doesn't work like that and finally regulators around the world are becoming more aware of the internet privacy problem. Big companies made you believe it's okay you are being spied on because everyone does. EU is starting doing something about it so maybe finally customers no longer be slaves to IT/game dev companies.

The point I was trying to make is ArenaNet is doing what everyone else is, but they do it for very specific purposes and try to be the least intrusive as possible, while a lot of others are scanning your computer for anything they want.

The problem is people are making it out as though ArenaNet was scanning everything on your computer when they weren't. If they were looking at your cat video collection, or to see what type of hoo-hah videos you're into, I could understand the invasion of privacy argument. People are just blowing things out of proportion and assuming the absolute worse without any evidence to back up their claims.

Well yes, Anet's actions are on smaller scale than big players on the market. However, being less evil is still evil.

If we take it for what we know though, Anet is only retrieving data if what you are running is matching what they are searching for (cheat programs). If you aren't running that which is being searched for, NOTHING is being sent to Anet that shouldn't be. So nothing to be worried about, no? You're either running questionable software while playing (reasonable doubt), or you're not. It's a very simple concept. Many court cases end in conviction based on reasonable doubt. Anet has opened up the ability to send a ticket about your (general) ban (if you were). So if a ban was unwarranted, you will be unbanned.Don't forget Anet can view metrics of character input and positioning when they like, that data is stored.

I wish they did account research before banning people.

Tell me about it.. friend of mine got banned because he used cheat engine on FF14 for Infinite Mana or whatever.. but never closed FF14 or Cheat Engine out to login to gw2 to quickly grab his daily login reward. So he got hit with 6 month ban because of it.

Karma works in mysterious ways?

Another case of reasonable doubt I think. FF14 is an online game right? So much for the 'CE can't be used in online games' excuse I guess.Edit; and the quoted post has magically vanished? Odd...

[Charrbeque.8729]

@Haleydawn.3764 said:

@Oldirtbeard.9834 said:

@Vegeta.2563 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Haleydawn.3764 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Charrbeque.8729 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Charrbeque.8729 said:And on the topic of sending data to a company: anybody using Windows 10?

Yeahhhhh.

https://imgur.com/a/sfhudbX

No option not to send data to Microsoft. You're always sending something to them. So if you want to complain about ArenaNet invading privacy, you could use the same argument about Microsoft, or pretty much any software company or website out there. You could probably modify Windows somehow so you don't send data to Microsoft, but you would really have to know what you're doing and would run the risk of your OS not working properly.

ArenaNet basically did what everybody else does. Except not on a massive scale like Facebook or Twitter, who takes everything you post and sells it to advertisers, while telling you to your face they will never share your data with anyone.

All ArenaNet did was check to see if specific software was running at the same time as the game. Anything not relevant to that was ignored.

I love this argument because it proves how successful the corrupted IT/game dev industry is. "I can do this because everyone else does this". No, it doesn't work like that and finally regulators around the world are becoming more aware of the internet privacy problem. Big companies made you believe it's okay you are being spied on because everyone does. EU is starting doing something about it so maybe finally customers no longer be slaves to IT/game dev companies.

The point I was trying to make is ArenaNet is doing what everyone else is, but they do it for very specific purposes and try to be the least intrusive as possible, while a lot of others are scanning your computer for anything they want.

The problem is people are making it out as though ArenaNet was scanning everything on your computer when they weren't. If they were looking at your cat video collection, or to see what type of hoo-hah videos you're into, I could understand the invasion of privacy argument. People are just blowing things out of proportion and assuming the absolute worse without any evidence to back up their claims.

Well yes, Anet's actions are on smaller scale than big players on the market. However, being less evil is still evil.

If we take it for what we know though, Anet is only retrieving data if what you are running is matching what they are searching for (cheat programs). If you aren't running that which is being searched for, NOTHING is being sent to Anet that shouldn't be. So nothing to be worried about, no? You're either running questionable software while playing (reasonable doubt), or you're not. It's a very simple concept. Many court cases end in conviction based on reasonable doubt. Anet has opened up the ability to send a ticket about your (general) ban (if you were). So if a ban was unwarranted, you will be unbanned.Don't forget Anet can view metrics of character input and positioning when they like, that data is stored.

I wish they did account research before banning people.

Tell me about it.. friend of mine got banned because he used cheat engine on FF14 for Infinite Mana or whatever.. but never closed FF14 or Cheat Engine out to login to gw2 to quickly grab his daily login reward. So he got hit with 6 month ban because of it.

Karma works in mysterious ways?

Another case of reasonable doubt I think. FF14 is an online game right? So much for the 'CE can't be used in online games' excuse I guess.

Edit; and the quoted post has magically vanished? Odd...

Not odd. A mod removed a post of mine because I quoted a post that was apparently in violation of the rules (no penalty to me though, basically just a notice my post was removed). And the post I quoted (and you said is missing) was by @Kheldorn.5123, who now has "Banned" marked on their profile page. https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/profile/comments/489/Kheldorn.5123

/shrug

Edit: Wasn't this thread 3 pages long earlier? I could have sworn. Hmm....maybe several posts got deleted or something.

[Bloodstealer.5978]

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:I wonder why some players/posters take/took the word of another posters claiming to be a security expert (I mean anyone can say anything on the internet; I didn't see any proof), but vehemently state that ArenaNet is stating untruths? If there is no proof for ArenaNet's statements, there is also no proof for posters-in-a-thread's statements. :confused:

A security expert, who someone mentioned was the CTO of a security software company specialising in anti virus/anti malware.. I wonder why then that person thought it was a good idea to come to a public forum and broadcast what anet had apparently done and the methods used - ya know the kind of golden ticket info those hackdevs would of almost certainly had a field day with.. hmm clever, not! :)