Balance Patch Thoughts

[Nilix.2170]

@"Obtena.7952" said:my point is simple; there IS a difference between targeting BUILDS vs. SKILLS and it's clearly the case that more often, Anet targets skill buffs, not making specific builds viable. The motives are different, and as such, so will be the result.

This is a pretty low bar to reach for though The motives are definitely different but the result isn't just on what they give us. It's on our desire and ability to perform with it. I'd say it's not that ArenaNet doesn't buff underperforming builds, but that they can't. And if they're trying, it's far more likely to either fail or be unnoticed. It's easy to nerf builds because when a build is composed, all the pieces are visible. You can attack it at the hinge and make it fall apart (Rest in Peace, Kit Refinement). In comparison, buffing a build, particularly an underperforming one, is a lot more complicated and unlikely. People don't use underperforming builds. So you have to bolster the skills that aren't being used. And after that, the build has to come together. We need to take the skills, make a coherent setup, and have it perform adequately. Does this pan out well? No, not always, even when intended. In the meantime, the skills that were buffed... are still buffed, whether or not builds that center their functions actually work. And those skills can get adopted into other currently well used builds because they fit for that person.

So does ArenaNet buff skills? Of course.Do they intend to buff builds/playstyles? ...Maybe. I think whenever they change a trait, yes. Particularly GM traits that can serve as a hinge on your skill setup (like MDF)Are they doing a good job at it? That's up to us, honestly.

From what I see, the new Med Kit follows their "active, not passive" approach towards combat engagements. Improved Health Insurance makes all forms of healing support better (with or without Med Kit) and MDF is far stronger than it used to be. It sure LOOKS like they want to make Engineer support a viable option. But it's possible that six months from now, the most significant change people made is adding Health Insurance on their Holosmiths because it's an easy way to boost their Heat Therapy health gain and Healing Turret without much investment in Healing Power.

[coro.3176]

@Obtena.7952 said:Even though it's fun to think I'm not right ... the OP is still complaining he doesn't have a viable condi engi build ... AND pinpoint got a nerf ... HUM. I'm just going to let people think how those things are related

All right. Well. Here are a few SKILLS that still need some serious attention, have needed attention for YEARS. Children that were born while these skills still needed attention are starting school this fall!

Fragmentation Shot

• does not do enough damage. (bad scaling, not enough condi to apply meaningful pressure)
• tooltip says 0.5s but actual animation time is ~0.83s.
• aoe explosion doesn't bleed targets

Poison Dart Volley

• does not do enough damage.
• misses half the shots at max range due to inexplicable built-in scatter cone pattern

Static Shot

• supposed to be used as defense, but a single blind doesn't help much when most skills hit multiple times in quick succession

[Obtena.7952]

@Nilix.2170 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:my point is simple; there IS a difference between targeting BUILDS vs. SKILLS and it's clearly the case that more often, Anet targets skill buffs, not making specific builds viable. The motives are different, and as such, so will be the result.

This is a pretty low bar to reach for though

Absolutely ... but that doesn't change anything. Anet doesn't actually need to set the bar high in this game because of how the game is designed; when there are optimal builds for a given situation, there just isn't a NEED to ensure a whole bunch of other 'viable' ones (even though if a person is satisfied with playing mediocre builds ... then HAVE many build options to choose from)

Don't be mistaken here. I'm all for more builds that cool and interesting to play; I'm just observant and realistic about how things work in this game. Anet can try to buff the underperforming builds all they want, but that doesn't really do much because the baseline for performance (measured by people that care about performance) isn't some artificially chosen build that's in the middle of the pack, it's the optimal ones.

[DanyoSouth.1507]

Wish they looked into Elixir X (while I agree that mortar kit didn't feel like an Elite if you're core you're either using that or supply drop). If they would just choose a form (probably just juggernaut because you don't even have the attunements to make cyclone worth getting it) or make Elixir X more unique I think it would see some use because of the break bar damage/CC of it's tool belt. So I hope ANET looks into making all Elites feel just a little more impactful for engi (don't know what to do with stealth gyro but I guess the utility of it is good enough). The main reason I play Holo is just for the Laser Elite because it feels nice to use.

[Josif.2015]

@coro.3176 said:

• Core Engi: Still garbage tier
• Condi: Still garbage tier. ..and hey, nerf pinpoint distribution just to reinforce that point.
• Underwater: Hooray! Much-needed buffs and changes.
• Med-Kit: Hooray! Much-needed buffs and changes .. maybe?
• slight buff/bugfix to scrapper barrier, on-demand stab with defense field

While I don't think core engineer is garbage per say, I still think that it needs some serious buffs when it comes to the kits. The Med Kit rework was amazing in my opinion, but it's not enough to bring back core engineer from the retirement home.

[coro.3176]

@Hoodie.1045 said:

@coro.3176 said:

• Core Engi: Still garbage tier
• Condi: Still garbage tier. ..and hey, nerf pinpoint distribution just to reinforce that point.
• Underwater: Hooray! Much-needed buffs and changes.
• Med-Kit: Hooray! Much-needed buffs and changes .. maybe?
• slight buff/bugfix to scrapper barrier, on-demand stab with defense field

While I don't think core engineer is garbage per say, I still think that it needs some serious buffs when it comes to the kits. The Med Kit rework was amazing in my opinion, but it's not enough to bring back core engineer from the retirement home.

I would argue it is pretty garbage.

Power core is missing probably 50% or more of the damage it could have from Holo. Holo also gets stability, sustain, and more cc. It's just better in every way.Condi core is unable to effectively make any conditions stick on enemies (who are bringing enough cleanse to deal with scourge). Even then, if you're going to play condi, you're probably still better off using Scrapper for survivability, since you have to stay alive a long time while your conditions tick.

[Chaith.8256]

Core Engi, the main problem are the never-ending nerfs to its defense.

At one point:

• Automated Medical Response had a 10s CD instead of 120s.
• Protection Injection had a 5s CD instead of a 10s CD, now 20s CD.
• Backpack Regenerator had 100% uptime by swapping kits every 10s, now it's useless with a weapon active.
• Self-Regulating Defenses had a 60s -> 48s CD instead of a 90s -> 72s CD.
• Alchemical Tinctures, now Compounding Chemicals, this used to cleanse a good amount of conditions for Elixir builds. Anti-Corrosive Plating, the successor trait for condi removal, this is useless for Core which has little frequency of applying protection.

New traits like Sanguine Array have helped with getting back to vanilla damage levels. It's really just conditions that are inherently weak AF on the Engineer profession.

[Blaeys.3102]

I've been healing on my scrapper in open world and WvW a lot since the update and find it extremely fun and effective.

[Ario.8964]

@Chaith.8256 said:Core Engi, the main problem are the never-ending nerfs to its defense.

At one point:

• Automated Medical Response had a 10s CD instead of 120s.
• Protection Injection had a 5s CD instead of a 10s CD, now 20s CD.
• Backpack Regenerator had 100% uptime by swapping kits every 10s, now it's useless with a weapon active.
• Self-Regulating Defenses had a 60s -> 48s CD instead of a 90s -> 72s CD.
• Alchemical Tinctures, now Compounding Chemicals, this used to cleanse a good amount of conditions for Elixir builds. Anti-Corrosive Plating, the successor trait for condi removal, this is useless for Core which has little frequency of applying protection.

New traits like Sanguine Array have helped with getting back to vanilla damage levels. It's really just conditions that are inherently weak AF on the Engineer profession.

To be fair, AMR was busted when it was only 10 seconds. Prot injection would be nice if the cd was decreased to either 5 or 10 seconds and the duration decreased to 1-2 seconds (depending on which cd they go for) so it could act as a more consistent condi removal option for core engi when combined with ACP. Backpack regen needs to have it's 10 second effect come back as an unstrippable buff that people can see on your UI. Compounding chemicals imo is a garbage trait rn. The healing is abysmal and the condi cleanse, like you said, was really helpful before ACP was introduced. It'd be nice to see the cleanse come back and ACP see an icd anywhere from 1-3 seconds to balance out the possible condi cleanse monster that would appear.

[coro.3176]

@Ario.8964 said:

@Chaith.8256 said:Core Engi, the main problem are the never-ending nerfs to its defense.

At one point:

• Automated Medical Response had a 10s CD instead of 120s.
• Protection Injection had a 5s CD instead of a 10s CD, now 20s CD.
• Backpack Regenerator had 100% uptime by swapping kits every 10s, now it's useless with a weapon active.
• Self-Regulating Defenses had a 60s -> 48s CD instead of a 90s -> 72s CD.
• Alchemical Tinctures, now Compounding Chemicals, this used to cleanse a good amount of conditions for Elixir builds. Anti-Corrosive Plating, the successor trait for condi removal, this is useless for Core which has little frequency of applying protection.

New traits like Sanguine Array have helped with getting back to vanilla damage levels. It's really just conditions that are inherently weak AF on the Engineer profession.

To be fair, AMR was busted when it was only 10 seconds. Prot injection would be nice if the cd was decreased to either 5 or 10 seconds and the duration decreased to 1-2 seconds (depending on which cd they go for) so it could act as a more consistent condi removal option for core engi when combined with ACP. Backpack regen needs to have it's 10 second effect come back as an unstrippable buff that people can see on your UI. Compounding chemicals imo is a garbage trait rn. The healing is abysmal and the condi cleanse, like you said, was really helpful before ACP was introduced. It'd be nice to see the cleanse come back and ACP see an icd anywhere from 1-3 seconds to balance out the possible condi cleanse monster that would appear.

Problem is, most defensive trait buffs only increase the divide between core and elite specs even further, as both Holo and Scrapper will make better use of that defense than core will.

I mean, maybe I'm biased because I like the condi playstyle, but I really believe the only way to make core viable AND keep scrapper/holo balanced is to buff condi application heavily on pistol weapon skills and possibly certain offensive kits (bomb, nades, flamethrower). Neither elite can make use of pistol well (both are power specs) and most elite spec builds don't run those offensive kits.

[Imperadordf.2687]

@coro.3176 said:

@Ario.8964 said:

@Chaith.8256 said:Core Engi, the main problem are the never-ending nerfs to its defense.

At one point:

• Automated Medical Response had a 10s CD instead of 120s.
• Protection Injection had a 5s CD instead of a 10s CD, now 20s CD.
• Backpack Regenerator had 100% uptime by swapping kits every 10s, now it's useless with a weapon active.
• Self-Regulating Defenses had a 60s -> 48s CD instead of a 90s -> 72s CD.
• Alchemical Tinctures, now Compounding Chemicals, this used to cleanse a good amount of conditions for Elixir builds. Anti-Corrosive Plating, the successor trait for condi removal, this is useless for Core which has little frequency of applying protection.

New traits like Sanguine Array have helped with getting back to vanilla damage levels. It's really just conditions that are inherently weak AF on the Engineer profession.

To be fair, AMR was busted when it was only 10 seconds. Prot injection would be nice if the cd was decreased to either 5 or 10 seconds and the duration decreased to 1-2 seconds (depending on which cd they go for) so it could act as a more consistent condi removal option for core engi when combined with ACP. Backpack regen needs to have it's 10 second effect come back as an unstrippable buff that people can see on your UI. Compounding chemicals imo is a garbage trait rn. The healing is abysmal and the condi cleanse, like you said, was really helpful before ACP was introduced. It'd be nice to see the cleanse come back and ACP see an icd anywhere from 1-3 seconds to balance out the possible condi cleanse monster that would appear.

Problem is, most defensive trait buffs only increase the divide between core and elite specs even further, as both Holo and Scrapper will make better use of that defense than core will.

Exactly what I was thinking. A buff to Projection Injection will make Alchemy/Inventions/Elite builds much better than core. Both of those traitlines are so overloaded with good traits that one of them is a must when playing PvP.

I mean, maybe I'm biased because I like the condi playstyle, but I really believe the only way to make core viable AND keep scrapper/holo balanced is to buff condi application heavily on pistol weapon skills and possibly certain offensive kits (bomb, nades, flamethrower).

I kinda think that those kits should be buffed but they shouldn't have their power coefficients nor power-based skills get buffed. At least in PvE. In PvP though, they should be either caught up with the current powercreep, or the OP ones should be brought down to their levels.

Neither elite can make use of pistol well (both are power specs) and most elite spec builds don't run those offensive kits.

They should also buff Pistols in general, all of the skills, buff Shield and maybe buff Rifle auto. Our weapons are so darn bad at the moment.

[Nilix.2170]

If you buff Pistols, Elite specs will find ways to use them faster than Core. Pistol/Shield, for instance, will suddenly become more viable of an option for Scrapper. The only thing I can think of that you can give Core that won't buff Elite Specs by inheritance is access to the Elite spec's weapons.

[Ario.8964]

@Nilix.2170 said:If you buff Pistols, Elite specs will find ways to use them faster than Core. Pistol/Shield, for instance, will suddenly become more viable of an option for Scrapper. The only thing I can think of that you can give Core that won't buff Elite Specs by inheritance is access to the Elite spec's weapons.

If you give core access to the elite spec weapons then you set a very dangerous precedent for all the other specs out there. I'm not terrified by the idea of a core engi or a holo with a hammer, but the idea of a mirage using shield on top of everything else they have? Nope, that alone is enough to stop this idea from going any further.

@coro.3176 said:

@Ario.8964 said:

@Chaith.8256 said:Core Engi, the main problem are the never-ending nerfs to its defense.

At one point:

• Automated Medical Response had a 10s CD instead of 120s.
• Protection Injection had a 5s CD instead of a 10s CD, now 20s CD.
• Backpack Regenerator had 100% uptime by swapping kits every 10s, now it's useless with a weapon active.
• Self-Regulating Defenses had a 60s -> 48s CD instead of a 90s -> 72s CD.
• Alchemical Tinctures, now Compounding Chemicals, this used to cleanse a good amount of conditions for Elixir builds. Anti-Corrosive Plating, the successor trait for condi removal, this is useless for Core which has little frequency of applying protection.

New traits like Sanguine Array have helped with getting back to vanilla damage levels. It's really just conditions that are inherently weak AF on the Engineer profession.

To be fair, AMR was busted when it was only 10 seconds. Prot injection would be nice if the cd was decreased to either 5 or 10 seconds and the duration decreased to 1-2 seconds (depending on which cd they go for) so it could act as a more consistent condi removal option for core engi when combined with ACP. Backpack regen needs to have it's 10 second effect come back as an unstrippable buff that people can see on your UI. Compounding chemicals imo is a garbage trait rn. The healing is abysmal and the condi cleanse, like you said, was really helpful before ACP was introduced. It'd be nice to see the cleanse come back and ACP see an icd anywhere from 1-3 seconds to balance out the possible condi cleanse monster that would appear.

Problem is, most defensive trait buffs only increase the divide between core and elite specs even further, as both Holo and Scrapper will make better use of that defense than core will.

I mean, maybe I'm biased because I like the condi playstyle, but I really believe the only way to make core viable AND keep scrapper/holo balanced is to buff condi application heavily on pistol weapon skills and possibly certain offensive kits (bomb, nades, flamethrower). Neither elite can make use of pistol well (both are power specs) and most elite spec builds don't run those offensive kits.

Depends on where the buffs are placed. Obviously buffs that affect kits will have less impact on the elites than core given that the elites make better use of their own utility skills than they do of kits. Tbh, buffing core without buffing the elites is going to be limited to a select few options as the elites are really just an upgrade to the core class. They'd have to do a rework of the elite spec system that causes elites to lose access to a trait line and a skill type if they really wanted to balance out core vs elites.

So let's think, what can we do as far as changes go:

• Buffing condi on engi is a good start
• Core needs higher prot access that can't be accessed by the elites, if anet is able to do something as radical as skill/trait splits between elites and core that'd solve a ton of issues (I.E. prot injection could be 1 sec of prot with a 5 sec cd for core and the elites could have 3 seconds of prot on a 20 sec cd) It's a far fetched idea but there's too many limitations to what can be safely buffed without making the elites stronger this may be something they have to look into doing.
• I think if they made backpack regen the 10 second buff it used to be we would still be fine as the meta for holo uses no kits (would have to watch very closely after to see if the meta changes and be ready to make more changes if holo started using kits for the sustain boost) and scrapper generally has a very low kit uptime so for them the other traits would be better selections in most builds.
• Alchemical tinctures was great for core as most of the elites don't heavily use elixers. Bringing back that condi cleanse with an icd to ACP could effectively help to tone down the elites' condi clear while buffing that of core (ofc, since people may start using elixers on the elites there would be a possibility of requiring additional changes to the functionality of the trait so it doesn't buff the elites over core) there's even the possibility of just having the trait now grant prot when you use an elixer instead of clearing a condition so that core would have the prot access needed to use ACP well and the elites then don't migrate to elixers as they have enough prot on their own.
• As far as buffing kits, removing traits that directly buff the kits (with some exceptions like health insurance) and making those buffs baseline functionalities of the kits would significantly help condi engi (less mandatory trait lines for getting your kits to just function at a high level) the effects would be most noticeable on bomb kit (which would see a baseline reduction in fuse time) and grenades (baseline radius increase and velocity increase) neither of which are used on the elites. Then condi application could be buffed with a reduction in the durations or stacks of some of the conditions to allow engi to have a bit less burst condition damage but significantly better sustained damage on targets with high condi clear.

Regardless of what they do, buffing core will be a very delicate process.

[Ghos.1326]

@Chaith.8256 said:Core Engi, the main problem are the never-ending nerfs to its defense.

At one point:

• Automated Medical Response had a 10s CD instead of 120s.
• Protection Injection had a 5s CD instead of a 10s CD, now 20s CD.
• Backpack Regenerator had 100% uptime by swapping kits every 10s, now it's useless with a weapon active.
• Self-Regulating Defenses had a 60s -> 48s CD instead of a 90s -> 72s CD.
• Alchemical Tinctures, now Compounding Chemicals, this used to cleanse a good amount of conditions for Elixir builds. Anti-Corrosive Plating, the successor trait for condi removal, this is useless for Core which has little frequency of applying protection.

New traits like Sanguine Array have helped with getting back to vanilla damage levels. It's really just conditions that are inherently weak AF on the Engineer profession.

If Alchemical Tinctures came back, I'd like to see it tied into HGH trait, since this trait utilizes elixirs almost exclusively. Also, maybe put a small ICD to prevent spamming condi clear from throwing and consuming elixirs on lower cooldowns. Just my two cents though.

[Ten.2617]

• Med Kit change and buff...
• Medical DF and Health Insurance buffs...
• Rifle small buff...
• UW skills buffs...

Good patch for Engies.Ty Anet, for needed changes. You are on the right way to put the Engi on a competitive place.

[Obtena.7952]

@Chaith.8256 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:Just as I expected ... just as I told you ... Anet buffs underperforming SKILLS, not builds. The med kit change was a long, wanted one. Not sure it does much to raise Engi status for game modes though.

Right, right, they buffed Medical Dispersion Field, Med-Kit, and Heath insurance, they obviously didn't buff

support builds.

They buffed 3 random skills that happen to coincidentally all be part of one support build. Wowie.

How about we say you're equally correct saying they buffed support builds or support skills. There's no difference, stop acting like you've won an argument or something... :expressionless:

@Obtena.7952 said:Really? Let's just wait and see ... the jury is still out on support builds being 'viable' even though they buffed those skills.

So we've had time to see ... is the jury in yet? Do we have a 'viable' WvW/raid builds with the buffs to the healing support elements last balance patch or not? I'm being accused of arguing semantics of the difference between buffing builds vs. skills .. so where are we with this? I haven't seen many people singing the praises of builds using the new support tools even though the buffs were really good.

[Chaith.8256]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Chaith.8256 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:Just as I expected ... just as I told you ... Anet buffs underperforming SKILLS, not builds. The med kit change was a long, wanted one. Not sure it does much to raise Engi status for game modes though.

Right, right, they buffed Medical Dispersion Field, Med-Kit, and Heath insurance, they obviously didn't buff

support builds.

They buffed 3 random skills that happen to coincidentally all be part of one support build. Wowie.

How about we say you're equally correct saying they buffed support builds or support skills. There's no difference, stop acting like you've won an argument or something... :expressionless:

@Obtena.7952 said:Really? Let's just wait and see ... the jury is still out on support builds being 'viable' even though they buffed those skills.

So we've had time to see ... is the jury in yet? Do we have a 'viable' WvW/raid builds with the buffs to the healing support elements last balance patch or not? I'm being accused of arguing semantics of the difference between buffing builds vs. skills .. so where are we with this? I haven't seen many people singing the praises of builds using the new support tools even though the buffs were really good.

Are you really conflating buffing support builds/skills with producing meta builds? None of your post makes any sense to me

[Obtena.7952]

@Chaith.8256 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Chaith.8256 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:Just as I expected ... just as I told you ... Anet buffs underperforming SKILLS, not builds. The med kit change was a long, wanted one. Not sure it does much to raise Engi status for game modes though.

Right, right, they buffed Medical Dispersion Field, Med-Kit, and Heath insurance, they obviously didn't buff

support builds.

They buffed 3 random skills that happen to coincidentally all be part of one support build. Wowie.

How about we say you're equally correct saying they buffed support builds or support skills. There's no difference, stop acting like you've won an argument or something... :expressionless:

@Obtena.7952 said:Really? Let's just wait and see ... the jury is still out on support builds being 'viable' even though they buffed those skills.

So we've had time to see ... is the jury in yet? Do we have a 'viable' WvW/raid builds with the buffs to the healing support elements last balance patch or not? I'm being accused of arguing semantics of the difference between buffing builds vs. skills .. so where are we with this? I haven't seen many people singing the praises of builds using the new support tools even though the buffs were really good.

Are you really conflating buffing support builds/skills with producing meta builds? None of your post makes any sense to me

It's just a simple question ... did the buffs we get with the last patch for support make the builds that use them more 'viable'. Where are they used and how successful are they? If the argument stands that Anet buffs skills with the motivation to make builds viable, there should be a sharp increase in the number of people using the new skills for builds in any of the game modes ... if not ... well, I rest my case.

[coro.3176]

I think that's an obvious yes?

Support builds basically didn't exist prior to that patch, owing to the medkit being utterly unplayable. Now they do exist and are half decent. I've seen multiple people running support scrapper in WvW. That's an improvement.

I still find this skills/builds dispute silly. Builds are made up of skills and traits. People say 'buff X build' as shorthand for 'buff the skills/traits that make up X build'. There's really nothing to argue here.

[Obtena.7952]

@coro.3176 said:I think that's an obvious yes?

Support builds basically didn't exist prior to that patch, owing to the medkit being utterly unplayable. Now they do exist and are half decent. I've seen multiple people running support scrapper in WvW. That's an improvement.

I still find this skills/builds dispute silly. Builds are made up of skills and traits. People say 'buff X build' as shorthand for 'buff the skills/traits that make up X build'. There's really nothing to argue here.

Perfect ... exactly as I was expecting you to say ... now let's talk about where Anet explicitly said they were going to make this specific support Scrapper build viable by buffing those particular skills. I mean, if Anet are improving skills to buff specific builds as you say they intend to ... it shouldn't be too hard.

[coro.3176]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@"coro.3176" said:I think that's an obvious yes?

Support builds basically didn't exist prior to that patch, owing to the medkit being utterly unplayable. Now they do exist and are half decent. I've seen multiple people running support scrapper in WvW. That's an improvement.

I still find this skills/builds dispute silly. Builds are made up of skills and traits. People say 'buff X build' as shorthand for 'buff the skills/traits that make up X build'. There's really nothing to argue here.

Perfect ... exactly as I was expecting you to say ... now let's talk about where Anet explicitly said they were going to make this specific support Scrapper build viable by buffing those particular skills. I mean, if Anet are improving skills to buff

specific

builds as you say they intend to ... it shouldn't be too hard.

They didn't say that.. but that's because they didn't say anything this time. They almost never do. Communication in regards to balance is not one of their strong suits, and the rare times they do communicate, we get cryptic explanations. "PURITY OF PURPOSE", anyone?

In this case, they left no explanation with their balance changes. However, I will go back and quote from one of their more descriptive patches (again) if you insist.

• Power-build revenants have been languishing behind their condition-build counterparts. ((a bunch of traits)) were changed to give the Shiro Tagachi invocation and the Devastation specialization more burst potential.

• We also toned down some spellbreaker effectiveness in PvP and WvW so that there is more time to react and counter their powerful skills.

• The scrapper elite specialization also received changes to streamline and define it as a tank specialization by adding barrier and by better linking its minor traits to the new major options.

In short, they're high-level "build"- focused updates (that is, spanning many traits and skills to improve overall effectiveness with a certain playstyle). I don't even know what the disagreement is here. They balance builds by balancing skills and traits.

[Obtena.7952]

Oh ok ... so we are going from Anet telling us they buff builds to them never saying anything? Um, that's not true. Anet gives us lots of information and background to why they buff things and not. Perhaps not always, but not almost never. If their rare communications are cryptic, then what is convincing you that when they buff a skill, it's because they want people to play a specific build? Seems to me they are as cryptic as you are assuming.

The argument here isn't if they balance builds by skills and traits, the argument here is if they target SPECIFIC builds for balancing. I see no evidence that's their typical approach, especially considering there is no reason for them to do so.

[coro.3176]

Power-build revenants have been languishing behind their condition-build counterparts.

Sounds pretty specific to me. .. about as specific as "condition-build engineers".

The scrapper elite specialization also received changes to streamline and define it as a tank specialization

Sounds pretty specific to me .. about as specific as "engineer core spec".

[Obtena.7952]

@"coro.3176" said:

Power-build revenants have been languishing behind their condition-build counterparts.

Sounds pretty specific to me. .. about as specific as "condition-build engineers".

The scrapper elite specialization also received changes to streamline and define it as a tank specialization

Sounds pretty specific to me .. about as specific as "engineer core spec".

If you feel confident in setting your hopes around exceptions, you're setting yourself up for disappointment. A more realistic approach would be to propose a few things that would increase the 'viability' of engi condi builds instead of just pointing at a couple of examples where Anet did something atypical of their regular approach and insisting they target builds for improvement as their modus operandi.

[coro.3176]

This is getting tiresome.

"Lastly, we'll be looking to tone down a few builds that increase damage exponentially against larger targets" - November, 2017

"These changes are aimed at allowing the reaper to output more damage at the cost of some defense" - November 2017

"In addition to bug fixes and quality-of-life changes, we've been looking to improve the support role for the revenant" - February 2017

"we also want to help mesmer DPS builds remain sustainable" - October 2016

"we wanted to improve the viability of necromancer power builds, which have been somewhat lacking in presence" - October 2016