WvW: Greatsword....Viable!?

[Warscythes.9307]

@Wizardauz.3761 said:Reaper GS is good for GS4 and GS5. But thats about it. That statement alone should tell you it needs a little love from Anet.

Taking a weapon for 2 skills, knowing the others are basically useless isn't much a reason.

Were not taking GS because, GS4 and GS5 are so good. Its just that there isn't anything else.

AA - Sucks.GS2 - Slow, Telegraphed, Predictable. The fact thats the only thing its good for is down cleave isnt good. Hundred Blades is good for downcleave, doesn't mean its a useless skill otherwise.GS3 - Same as GS2. Slow, Predictable, Crappy-Hit Box, and gives you nothing but Vulnerability. Name another 3 skill that bland.

Plenty of weapons are good in pvp for a few skills.

Warrior GS for example is pretty much only used because of GS3, GS5. GS2 very situational and GS4 as a filler. Is not really that big of a problem.

[DeceiverX.8361]

@Warscythes.9307 said:

@Wizardauz.3761 said:Reaper GS is good for GS4 and GS5. But thats about it. That statement alone should tell you it needs a little love from Anet.

Taking a weapon for 2 skills, knowing the others are basically useless isn't much a reason.

Were not taking GS because, GS4 and GS5 are so good. Its just that there isn't anything else.

AA - Sucks.GS2 - Slow, Telegraphed, Predictable. The fact thats the only thing its good for is down cleave isnt good. Hundred Blades is good for downcleave, doesn't mean its a useless skill otherwise.GS3 - Same as GS2. Slow, Predictable, Crappy-Hit Box, and gives you nothing but Vulnerability. Name another 3 skill that bland.

Plenty of weapons are good in pvp for a few skills.

Warrior GS for example is pretty much only used because of GS3, GS5. GS2 very situational and GS4 as a filler. Is not really that big of a problem.

And thief takes shortbow literally for skill 5.Ranger GS for Skill 3 half the time.Mesmer Sword for Skill 2 and nothing else.Guardian GS for 2/5Rev staff mostly for skills 4/5Ele staff for Fire5 if the situation demands.

Most classes have at least one weapon they take primarily for one or two skills.

It's how well you use those skills that determines success.

Nobody in their right mind is going to say thief shortbow and mesmer sword are terrible weapons, despite the fact that they're only actually taken pretty much for a single skill to fill one purpose. These weapons are amazing but never camped/used as a primary. Mirage aside, I'd argue both of these classes harshly depend on or have historically depended on these respective skills to be viable.

Reaper's GS covers its areas of weakness well. If you play into its strengths, it works great. If you don't, it sucks, just like maining shortbow or sword on thief/mes respectively.

Idk how people can say GS3 has a crappy hitbox. They changed it a while ago to have a faster animation, more damage, and an increased hitbox size, and is one of the best burst-LF tools in the game.

The only actually bad skills on GS are AA3 and Gravedigger. The rest are functional if not very good.

[Wizardauz.3761]

@Warscythes.9307 said:

@Wizardauz.3761 said:Reaper GS is good for GS4 and GS5. But thats about it. That statement alone should tell you it needs a little love from Anet.

Taking a weapon for 2 skills, knowing the others are basically useless isn't much a reason.

Were not taking GS because, GS4 and GS5 are so good. Its just that there isn't anything else.

AA - Sucks.GS2 - Slow, Telegraphed, Predictable. The fact thats the only thing its good for is down cleave isnt good. Hundred Blades is good for downcleave, doesn't mean its a useless skill otherwise.GS3 - Same as GS2. Slow, Predictable, Crappy-Hit Box, and gives you nothing but Vulnerability. Name another 3 skill that bland.

Plenty of weapons are good in pvp for a few skills.

Warrior GS for example is pretty much only used because of GS3, GS5. GS2 very situational and GS4 as a filler. Is not really that big of a problem.

Warrior GS AA - Fast, Reliable DPS.Warrior GS 2 - AoE Burst, Consistent Dmg, Channel can be canceled into any ability with an animation-cancel, downcleave, reliable. Scales better with Crit because of multiple attacks.Warrior GS3 - Damage/Burst, Aimed Skillshot, Instant Cast, Mobility, Cures Immobilze.GS4 - Auto-Target RANGED Slow. Damage is Meh, Good for chasing and final hits, facilitates Warrior ability to KITE.GS5 - Targeted Charge. Cures Immobilize. Good Damage. Can be use untargeted for DISENGAGE

GS4 is not a filler. It has a very specific purpose. You can swing your character model GS4 for slow>Untarget/Swing Back>GS5>GS3 to kite and disengage from anymore. The only class capable of keeping up with that is Ele.

The Warrior GS is literally superior to Reaper GS is every way. Thats why, oh idk, every GvG comp runs it, why Spellbreaker/Core Warrior Roaming builds, to small-scale fights, to Zerg fights all take GS and its the 2nd weapon thats up to personal preference. (Either Axe/Shield, Sword/Shield, Dagger/Shield)

Hell even Reaper GS5 is just a shittier version of Core Guardian GS5

@DeceiverX.8361 said:

@Warscythes.9307 said:

@Wizardauz.3761 said:Reaper GS is good for GS4 and GS5. But thats about it. That statement alone should tell you it needs a little love from Anet.

Taking a weapon for 2 skills, knowing the others are basically useless isn't much a reason.

Were not taking GS because, GS4 and GS5 are so good. Its just that there isn't anything else.

AA - Sucks.GS2 - Slow, Telegraphed, Predictable. The fact thats the only thing its good for is down cleave isnt good. Hundred Blades is good for downcleave, doesn't mean its a useless skill otherwise.GS3 - Same as GS2. Slow, Predictable, Crappy-Hit Box, and gives you nothing but Vulnerability. Name another 3 skill that bland.

Plenty of weapons are good in pvp for a few skills.

Warrior GS for example is pretty much only used because of GS3, GS5. GS2 very situational and GS4 as a filler. Is not really that big of a problem.

And thief takes shortbow literally for skill 5.Ranger GS for Skill 3 half the time.Mesmer Sword for Skill 2 and nothing else.Guardian GS for 2/5Rev staff mostly for skills 4/5Ele staff for Fire5 if the situation demands.

Most classes have at least one weapon they take primarily for one or two skills.

It's how well you use those skills that determines success.

Nobody in their right mind is going to say thief shortbow and mesmer sword are terrible weapons, despite the fact that they're only actually taken pretty much for a single skill to fill one purpose. These weapons are amazing but never camped/used as a primary. Mirage aside, I'd argue both of these classes harshly depend on or have historically depended on these respective skills to be viable.

Reaper's GS covers its areas of weakness well. If you play into its strengths, it works great. If you don't, it sucks, just like maining shortbow or sword on thief/mes respectively.

Idk how people can say GS3 has a crappy hitbox. They changed it a while ago to have a faster animation, more damage, and an increased hitbox size, and is one of the best burst-LF tools in the game.

The only actually bad skills on GS are AA3 and Gravedigger. The rest are functional if not very good.

Cant speak for Thief or Mesmer. I dont have experience with their class. But i do have 2500+ hours on Guardian and Warrior.

Guardian GS and Warrior GS are superior. Just because Core Guardian GS2 and GS5 are the shining abilities means the other abilities are bad by any means. GS3 is a leap, mobility, good damage, and blind, combos well with GS4 which is there for the combos and generating Retaliation. GS Aa on Guardian is good and reliable and no where near as slow.

Saying "Warrior GS and Guardian GS are use for these abilities" and then saying "The only actually bad skills on GS are AA3 and Gravedigger" are 2 completely different things.

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

@DeceiverX.8361 said:and thief takes shortbow literally for skill 5.Ranger GS for Skill 3 half the time.Mesmer Sword for Skill 2 and nothing else.Guardian GS for 2/5Rev staff mostly for skills 4/5Ele staff for Fire5 if the situation demands.

I would disagree:Showbow Thief: 3# = Evade + Cripple, #4 poison + Possible daze, 5# Insanely good. While its not the perfect weapon i wouldnt say its only used for skill 5.

Greatsword Ranger = Good Auto attack with evade, BIG hit #2 with low cool down, 3# Great for offensive and defense. 4# and 5# Daze and knock backs. Always welcome. Again. Another weapon that isnt used just for one ability. Maul hits for just as much (if not harder at times) than Grave digger with low cast time and cool down (unless >50% health target)

Mesmer Greatsword. Guessing you dont play Mesmer. As this is also wrong. Other than Mind Stab being a little difficult to land some times, all the abilities are useful and can deal insane damage. Useful both in melee and range.

Guardian Greatsword. Ignoring the Leap. The solid auto attack which procs Might, hits reasonable and quick. Really only meh skill i would say is 4# but still doesnt good damage, if you can keep them around. 5# is very good

Revenant Staff: Auto attacks deal solid damage and heals with added effects when traited. Low cool down access to Weakness with option for a daze if timed right. Projectile destruction and okay blind if enemies around and thats before the 4# and 5# skills. 4# could have a little lower cast time but solid heal, blast finish and remove 2 condis 5# still very, very strong

Ele staff: Ignoring most of the weapon sets options with healing, Fire, Water, Ice and Lightening fields with couple of blast finishers, CC, mobility and high damage options and projectile reflection. but sure, its only Fire 5# skill that is used.

All of these have MORE utility and options (except short Bow thief) than Necro Greatsword which is a slow weapon on a very slow class with no real defense options, no mobility, no way to engage quickly, no ways to disengage, skills that are easy to avoid and counter and easy to burst down from range

[Wizardauz.3761]

@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:Really only meh skill i would say is 4# but still doesnt good damage, if you can keep them around. 5# is very good

Guardian GS4 is only really used to combo with. You throw the first part of GS5 > Bait their dodge roll out and cast GS4 > 2nd GS5 Cast to pull them in > GS2. They take some dmg from GS4 but not really the full duration The best part about is you get Condi Cleanse from GS2 Whirl Finisher, and then GS3 will grant a light aura that reduces condi dmg by 10% and stacks more retaliation.

[DeceiverX.8361]

@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

@"DeceiverX.8361" said:and thief takes shortbow literally for skill 5.Ranger GS for Skill 3 half the time.Mesmer Sword for Skill 2 and nothing else.Guardian GS for 2/5Rev staff mostly for skills 4/5Ele staff for Fire5 if the situation demands.

I would disagree:Showbow Thief: 3# = Evade + Cripple, #4 poison + Possible daze, 5# Insanely good. While its not the perfect weapon i wouldnt say its only used for skill 5.

Greatsword Ranger = Good Auto attack with evade, BIG hit #2 with low cool down, 3# Great for offensive and defense. 4# and 5# Daze and knock backs. Always welcome. Again. Another weapon that isnt used just for one ability. Maul hits for just as much (if not harder at times) than Grave digger with low cast time and cool down (unless >50% health target)

Mesmer Greatsword. Guessing you dont play Mesmer. As this is also wrong. Other than Mind Stab being a little difficult to land some times, all the abilities are useful and can deal insane damage. Useful both in melee and range.

Guardian Greatsword. Ignoring the Leap. The solid auto attack which procs Might, hits reasonable and quick. Really only meh skill i would say is 4# but still doesnt good damage, if you can keep them around. 5# is very good

Revenant Staff: Auto attacks deal solid damage and heals with added effects when traited. Low cool down access to Weakness with option for a daze if timed right. Projectile destruction and okay blind if enemies around and thats before the 4# and 5# skills. 4# could have a little lower cast time but solid heal, blast finish and remove 2 condis 5# still very, very strong

Ele staff: Ignoring most of the weapon sets options with healing, Fire, Water, Ice and Lightening fields with couple of blast finishers, CC, mobility and high damage options and projectile reflection. but sure, its only Fire 5# skill that is used.

All of these have MORE utility and options (except short Bow thief) than Necro Greatsword which is a slow weapon on a very slow class with no real defense options, no mobility, no way to engage quickly, no ways to disengage, skills that are easy to avoid and counter and easy to burst down from range

SB on thief is taken strictly for IArrow. Otherwise S/D or D/P does literally everything about it that you just mentioned better and even your synergy mentionings are wrong. Without IArrow people would simply play D/P + S/D because to trigger the daze either requires the first attack to hit, AA's in MH dagger prior to the final pulse, DA traited + steal used in combo, or RNG for finishers from SB's AA's that aren't negated, all while requiring your opponent to stand in the field for the entire 4s. Unless you wish to tell me spamming CG to make it reliable is good because it can daze. In which case you're burning 8 init for a delayed daze, which is never worthwhile when Steal via SoH and OH pistol can do the same instantly for less/no initiative. D/D, S/D, and S/P have better evasion than shortbow as well, with the former two costing the same init, and the latter costing only one more initiative for 8x the damage and a longer evade.

Ranger GS is a lot worse than you think and you'd be laughed out of the ranger forums for saying what you said. AA3 is the same speed with a longer pre-cast and aftercast than reaper's 1/2, and the evade is completely negligible. With might, the first two hits of reaper's GSAA are almost the total of ranger's entire chain. Maul only hits hard with wombo-combo builds that are basically the ranger version of signet thief dedicating several traits and utilities to a single Maul; it's coefficient is just over half of Gravedigger's. Skill 4 in melee is seen as trash in competitive due to the animation locking. Skill 5 is considered to be relatively pointless and a waste of casting time in most cases due to the animation lock and better options and was only just recently adjusted to make its hit-tracking better after being a complete mess of a skill.

I said sword on mesmer, not GS. Blurred Frenzy. The rest of the weapon is garbage yet MH sword is run on every single build including power and condi variants. The whole point was to mention basically every class has a weapon akin to reaper's GS that's used primarily for one or maybe two skills.

Guardian GS is probably the most robust. Skill 3 is a worse gap closer than Grasp in any situation aside from a perma-stability target with it mostly used as a filler/blind tool than mobility. 4 is total filler and negligible. Arguably Guard has the most useful and individually impactful weapon skills of any profession, though. Staff is probably the better comparison now that I think about it.

Rev staff's AA is horrendous. It's third hit also has a 1s cast like reaper GSAA3 and the whole chain does more than 40% less damage despite being only .5s faster over the entire chain. Bad aftercasts as well, which the reaper doesn't suffer from as badly. Staff2 is slower than reaper's GSAA1/2 and does less damage than either + costs energy. The weakness is okay but generally not utilized heavily due to the energy cost and time involved - remember, Rev skills cost a shared resource amongst both weapons and utilities, so you can't look at them in a vacuum. Staff3 is generally filler at best with extra energy if locked into the weapon. 4's heal is awful.

So we have... about five "good" skills of 20 on staff ele all gated behind swaps in different attunements? Kinda proves my point.

To say GS on reaper is bad relative to other professions because 1 of the five skills is junk and its last AA is bad is stretching the truth really, really far.

You made this thread asking if GS was good in the PvP contexts with the admission that it feels weak. I've said it's good and given tips how to use it. I have four thousand hours on thief and rarely lose to any thief regardless of starting LF when playing my reaper because I understand the matchup. Most of the thieves/players I practice against are in the skill bracket of the top 50 in sPvP. Other esteemed reapers have also said that GS is a functional weapon.

Are there tweaks that could be made? Sure. But I don't think it'd come from buffing attack speed in AA3/GDigger unless they completely overdid it. GS's problems aren't about its melee potency, and reaper's woes shouldn't be fixed with some kind of insane teleport to match mobility powercreep. Put its pull on ammo to work to strip stability and all of a sudden the kit function very, very well.

If you're here just to complain and make an echo chamber, don't ask a question about the validity of your beliefs. GS is a good weapon. It just doesn't do what you want it to do which is dealing lots of very quick damage. Just because it doesn't achieve that doesn't change the fact it's a good, functional weapon in conjunction with the rest of the reaper.

[Wizardauz.3761]

@DeceiverX.8361 said:To say GS on reaper is bad relative to other professions because 1 of the five skills is junk and its last AA is bad is stretching the truth really, really far.

You made this thread asking if GS was good in the PvP contexts with the admission that it feels weak. I've said it's good and given tips how to use it. I have four thousand hours on thief and rarely lose to any thief regardless of starting LF when playing my reaper because I understand the matchup. Most of the thieves/players I practice against are in the skill bracket of the top 50 in sPvP. Other esteemed reapers have also said that GS is a functional weapon.

Are there tweaks that could be made? Sure. But I don't think it'd come from buffing attack speed in AA3/GDigger unless they completely overdid it. GS's problems aren't about its melee potency, and reaper's woes shouldn't be fixed with some kind of insane teleport to match mobility powercreep. Put its pull on ammo to work to strip stability and all of a sudden the kit function very, very well.

If you're here just to complain and make an echo chamber, don't ask a question about the validity of your beliefs. GS is a good weapon. It just doesn't do what you want it to do which is dealing lots of very quick damage. Just because it doesn't achieve that doesn't change the fact it's a good, functional weapon in conjunction with the rest of the reaper.

The problem simply put is the Reaper GS is one-dimensional compared to other 2 handed weapons of similar roled professions.

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

@DeceiverX.8361 said:SB on thief is taken strictly for IArrow. Otherwise S/D or D/P does literally everything about it that you just mentioned better and even your synergy mentionings are wrong. Without IArrow people would simply play D/P + S/D because to trigger the daze either requires the first attack to hit, AA's in MH dagger prior to the final pulse, DA traited + steal used in combo, or RNG for finishers from SB's AA's that aren't negated, all while requiring your opponent to stand in the field for the entire 4s. Unless you wish to tell me spamming CG to make it reliable is good because it can daze. In which case you're burning 8 init for a delayed daze, which is never worthwhile when Steal via SoH and OH pistol can do the same instantly for less/no initiative. D/D, S/D, and S/P have better evasion than shortbow as well, with the former two costing the same init, and the latter costing only one more initiative for 8x the damage and a longer evade.

That is again debatable, is it the strongest skill on the weapon? yes. That doesnt mean its ONLY taken for that skill. it is a VERY strong skill that pretty much every class and build wish they could have access to but its not the only reason its taken. While they have better options for damage elsewhere, its not taken for the damage. Its taken for the mobility, the ranged option, the evade and such. Would it be stopped being used if iArrow was removed? Most likely as as a weapon it needs the mobility that the weapon offers.

It does say something about the Necro Greatsword that it doesnt have a single skill that is important that people take the Greatsword for the skill. Its skills are either too slow, too telegraphed, too easy to avoid or all of the above. As i said, it would work fine on say Guardian or Warrior with their high base armor health (in warrior case) so they can go toe to toe with enemies while using it. Necro cant do that.

@DeceiverX.8361 said:Ranger GS is a lot worse than you think and you'd be laughed out of the ranger forums for saying what you said. AA3 is the same speed with a longer pre-cast and aftercast than reaper's 1/2, and the evade is completely negligible. With might, the first two hits of reaper's GSAA are almost the total of ranger's entire chain. Maul only hits hard with wombo-combo builds that are basically the ranger version of signet thief dedicating several traits and utilities to a single Maul; it's coefficient is just over half of Gravedigger's. Skill 4 in melee is seen as trash in competitive due to the animation locking. Skill 5 is considered to be relatively pointless and a waste of casting time in most cases due to the animation lock and better options and was only just recently adjusted to make its hit-tracking better after being a complete mess of a skill.

And yet, i have seem MANY roamers using it and that is what counts, i dont care about Raids. I dont care for dungeons. I dont care for Factuals. I care for WvW and Roaming at that and in that area its VERY good. Its got everything you need for a GOOD roaming weapon. Damage. CC. Mobility. Defense. Is it perfect in all game modes? i wouldnt know i play WvW and thats where it works great.

Add in their access to Quickness and boom. Much, much better. The difference is, its MUCH easier to land those skills and those attacks thanks to them being better designed, adding in quickness access and such as well makes them much easier and more viable to use when roaming. Gravedigger is ONLY useful against people that are AFK and people that are downed.

Then you add in the very solid mobility skill so that you can actually get INTO melee to start using it, meaning that you already take less damage any skill that dazes or stuns a target is a useful skill if its cast time and such are reasonable and i think its reasonable plus - Maul - Hilt Bash - Maul with Quickness can be rather quick.

@DeceiverX.8361 said:I said sword on mesmer, not GS. Blurred Frenzy. The rest of the weapon is garbage yet MH sword is run on every single build including power and condi variants. The whole point was to mention basically every class has a weapon akin to reaper's GS that's used primarily for one or maybe two skills.

Ah, sorry. Though i still disagree, AA can hit like a truck, removes boons and your clones remove boons as well (IIRC) plus, you then have the options of what Offhand you want to take with it as well so then you have more choice of the 4/5 skills as well with Ranged options, Mobility options, Melee options and options for Condi or power builds with Stealth options as well. Sure Illusionary Leap is a bit crappy at times but that can be said for quite a few mobility/leap skills where they bug out. Yeah now you have to use 2-Handed options because using 1 hand weapons and then ignoring the off hand potential seems kinda bias against that weapon.

@DeceiverX.8361 said:Guardian GS is probably the most robust. Skill 3 is a worse gap closer than Grasp in any situation aside from a perma-stability target with it mostly used as a filler/blind tool than mobility. 4 is total filler and negligible. Arguably Guard has the most useful and individually impactful weapon skills of any profession, though. Staff is probably the better comparison now that I think about it.

I do really like Greatsword, though never had any issues with the Leap attack, reasonable cool down, though the range could be a little better the blind is a welcome addition as well. Solid auto attack, reasonable other skills that are made totally useless by their ICD or insane cast time and such are always a welcome addition to any weapon.

@DeceiverX.8361 said:Rev staff's AA is horrendous. It's third hit also has a 1s cast like reaper GSAA3 and the whole chain does more than 40% less damage despite being only .5s faster over the entire chain. Bad aftercasts as well, which the reaper doesn't suffer from as badly. Staff2 is slower than reaper's GSAA1/2 and does less damage than either + costs energy. The weakness is okay but generally not utilized heavily due to the energy cost and time involved - remember, Rev skills cost a shared resource amongst both weapons and utilities, so you can't look at them in a vacuum. Staff3 is generally filler at best with extra energy if locked into the weapon. 4's heal is awful.

That is debatable, i have gotten quite the damage from it myself, plus remember the access to quickness and fields make it that little bit better, the healing on the orbs could be a little sure but other than that i think its a solid auto attack, it lands on people, hits reason, fast chain time. Well, given that its an attack that procs Weakness and a possible stun of course its cast time is going to be slower than an auto attack. Yes it does less damage. Because thats NOT the point of the attack, the weakness and the stun is why its used. I personally think 5 energy cost isnt that bad too be fair. Low cool down as well. The energy cost on the stun part is what makes the chain a little expensive, so think the second part could be lowered a little and it would be perfectly fine. Yeah a 2 second projectile block is a filler skill? Necros would kill to have such a skill that isnt tied to a Shroud ability. Its a blast finisher + Removes 2 conditions, the healing isnt the best but you gotta have condi removal on Revenant.

@DeceiverX.8361 said:So we have... about five "good" skills of 20 on staff ele all gated behind swaps in different attunements? Kinda proves my point.

To say GS on reaper is bad relative to other professions because 1 of the five skills is junk and its last AA is bad is stretching the truth really, really far.

"good" is dependant on your build and how you are playing. I have seen people roaming with Staff and doing very well using more than 5 skills. If you are a zergling then you are likely using less skills as its a ranged weapon on a VERY squishy class so you cant really get up in all the action like say a Hammer rev who will likely still rely on CoR for most of their damage. Every ranged weapon has its priority of skills to use. You can tell a good ele from a bad one as a bad ele will stay in Fire and just use that. The good ones know how to play it to its strengths.

You could ignore all of the other weapons and it is STILL a bad weapon for Necro. Its not a bad weapon in itself, its just a bad weapon for Necro. As i have said. They could keep this weapon EXACTLY the same, put it on another class and they would do much better with it. Necro isnt a toe to toe class, you will lose those fights and even more so with such a slow weapon with no mobility high cast times and so visible that makes some of them useless unless someone is AFK or downed kinda ruins it. For roaming its NOT a good weapon.

@DeceiverX.8361 said:You made this thread asking if GS was good in the PvP contexts with the admission that it feels weak. I've said it's good and given tips how to use it. I have four thousand hours on thief and rarely lose to any thief regardless of starting LF when playing my reaper because I understand the matchup. Most of the thieves/players I practice against are in the skill bracket of the top 50 in sPvP. Other esteemed reapers have also said that GS is a functional weapon.

Yeah and notice how many others that have come along saying the same. Its not that its weak its more that its poorly designed for Necro. It doesnt fit a class that is weak, has very little in terms of defense and cant go toe to toe with anyone without risk of dying quickly. Your number of hours played means nothing. I never really understand that people seem to think playing a long time as a class will mean they will win more. Its all about your enemy and Thief is a hard counter for pretty much any class that is slow, immobile and has huge cast times on pretty much everything. Very limited Stability and such dont help either. Sorry to break it to you, sPvP isnt the same as WvW. Never has been. Never will be. They are built to be different with different stats, builds and burst damage.

@DeceiverX.8361 said:Are there tweaks that could be made? Sure. But I don't think it'd come from buffing attack speed in AA3/GDigger unless they completely overdid it. GS's problems aren't about its melee potency, and reaper's woes shouldn't be fixed with some kind of insane teleport to match mobility powercreep. Put its pull on ammo to work to strip stability and all of a sudden the kit function very, very well.

The weaks needed to be made to make GS viable would need to be made to the CLASS and not the weapon as i have said. Its a good weapon, on the wrong class. Other classes with defense options, high health and armour, and who are more mobile would do great with this weapon. Think about this weapon on a Shiro Revenant. Quickness, Teleport, Stun break + Evade. I would say it would be a perfect weapon for Revenant add in the trait options and it would be great. The problem is, Necro has none of that.

If you're here just to complain and make an echo chamber, don't ask a question about the validity of your beliefs. GS is a good weapon. It just doesn't do what you want it to do which is dealing lots of very quick damage. Just because it doesn't achieve that doesn't change the fact it's a good, functional weapon in conjunction with the rest of the reaper.

As i said, its a good weapon. Just not for Necro. Sure it works for PvE but hitting something that doesnt dodge, doesnt move, doesnt have mobility or anything else isnt really that hard. When it comes to players it is too easy to counter and it being on a class that cant go toe toe with anyone, cant chase people down or anything is what ruins it. Its the class at fault. Not the weapon.

Notice how some think its a good weapon (such as yourself) while many others also agree that it has too many issues and is kind of against the class itself to really be viable in a WvW roaming situation, Zerging? Yes it isnt that hard to make most weapons work there.

[DeceiverX.8361]

You keep echoing that people don't take GS for powerful skills and yet virtually everyone in this thread has at on point said that GS is taken for skills 4/5 which are quite good. Even the people agreeing with you the weapon needs improvements to its AA chain/GDigger cast times. I don't know if it's because you just haven't played GS much or something, but those two skills are extremely fast activations with their animations being slow after they complete the skill activation itself, which can thus be cancelled via other skills drastically increasing the rate at which the reaper can attack. Thus my original statement: If you learn the weapon and play it well, it's very, very good.

Staff ele is horrible for roaming lol. "Good" staff ele roamers are beating potatoes.

Rev's AA even with quickness, which btw, IO is considered trash for Shiro rev now since its nerfs, is still worse than reaper's AA per unit of time. 1.5* .6 < 1. And that's casting 2x as many skills and burning external resources which are seen as horribly inefficient.

I already said GS isn't viable in zerging. And people agree it's better as a 1v1 and small-scale weapon by its nature. Staff is the zerg weapon. GS is the 1v1 and small-scale weapon. It dominates the thief matchup if used properly as I've had to repeat many times, which is the common roaming encounter.

Other classes with defense options, high health and armour, and who are more mobile would do great with this weapon.

So warrior? Because everything else either has lower HP (everything except warrior) or lower sustained mobility (aside from mirage and thief) than reaper due to Death's Charge. The armor differences are negligible from light -> medium for the most part, especially with the HP pool necro has. And Rev has pretty awful sustain and Guardian is obviously about even when it comes to raw, innate defenses. Higher sustain to a flaw with FB, sure, but that won't help it make a theoretical reaper GS on guardian work. And warrior's mobility is directly related to their own GS. And necro being as tanky as it is lets the "slow" animations work. Put slow casts on something like a thief or ele and it'd just be laughably bad. It's that reason why staff ele is so terrible for roaming. The closest thing to Reaper's GS is Scrapper's hammer. Which, ironically, has slower cast times in most of its critical skills than reaper does, and lower damage, unless its opponent stands still. Rev wouldn't be able to make GS work because quickness would make it attack as fast as most other GS's. And how many times do people die to repeated AA's from GS's on other classes? They don't.

To make GS work, you need to force its strengths and chain its skills together seamlessly. You need to understand where the fight is and how to apply pressure. Necro's weaknesses are class-wide and GS helps offset a number of them. Buffing necro would require more revision into reaper to prevent it from being overpowered, and none of this has to do with GS being good or not. Because if they solve necro's core problems, GS does not get better; it arguably gets worse, because the holes it fills will already be plugged and the weapon made redundant, and we'll have the same situation with another weapon plugging holes where a necro needs to be weak.

The most damning thing to core necro/reaper was the change on Speed of Shadows affecting shroud CDR (and imho, also the movespeed for reaper into corruption/boon denial-heavy matchups which are already devastating counters). The most damning thing to reaper was its nerfs to the shroud degen rate. These are the two problems. Fix both and the spec becomes potent again, even if at the cost of a bit of shroud damage. GS changes just aren't needed as far as fixing reaper is concerned. Maybe small tweaks to help the weapon be more well-rounded if it strictly needs it, but the original question was if the GS is viable. And yes, it is. It's downright strong for the reaper (not overpowered, just a damned good weapon for the spec as a whole). I don't see a reason for changing the AA/GDigger because those changes really won't affect anything at all, and overzealous buffs will just make the reaper too powerful/easy.

[KrHome.1920]

GS got so many buffs in the past that it's really a great weapon now. It's as great as Axe (which also got tons of buffs) now. GS is not meant to faceroll in every matchup, but Power Reaper is really potent with its GS, Axe, Shroud-Sycthe setup. At least one of these wepons will always do the job depending on the situation.

A basic 8s shroud cooldown would solve every problem Reaper currently has. The spec needs to be more flexible in entering and leaving shroud.

This improves:

• better on demand defense (desperately needed to avoid easy shroud kiting counters)
• less waste of life force (5% degen will be a minor problem then)
• more bursts (good, because Reaper lacks non-telegraphed pressure)
• more mobility (F1 -> RS2 combo usable more often)

These 2 seconds would have a big impact on the whole Reaper mechanic without the need of changing anything else.