>25K from stealth in an instant and go back to stealth instantly.

[reddie.5861]

i dont really wannabe a asshole but why its always thief/mesmer getting hammered for what they do coming out of stealth?yes u cant predict balabala

but for example yesterday i was fighting warrior he hits me for 10k and then constant hits of 5k to 7k dmg, while i have to bail in and out constantly on my thief yet he just pops invul shield block another invul blabala if i would stay like a "man" to fight he would simply tear me apart cus i have barely any deffence to handle it.same with my ranger i can easily down most classes from save distant with insane amount of dmg just because its not done in 1 hit but multiple ones doesnt change fact that at the end of run its same shit to me.

Fb just out heals most crap how is that balanced?necro's constantly corrupt all your crap and have insta cast barrier etc.

at the end of run every class has something that is "good" yet when one class instantly tears you a new 1 and its pretty much only thing its good at its not fair.i find it not fair that i have pretty much dumped my thief cus beside a few builds (that i dont enjoy) you need bit more time to kill while other classes (like my example warrior) just soaks up all your dmg and then just pushes you over like its nothing.

stop crying for something that happends to you ones a hour in WvW if not less look at the big picture..if anything is OP then its FB/Scourge why? because they are most played dont give me meta excuse meta is based on OP crap.if u had left meteor shower like this meta would surely change to Ele's and few scourges and not mainly scourges.if you make rangers hit target they have as target and nothing in between and hit even more harder then rangers would be accepted in meta also.if Thiefs would poop out boons while having sustain of warrior they would be meta also.if Engie heal boost would have been done over the top FB wouldnt be heal bots anymore and alot less wanted.

meta is around OP crap it might be balanced more or less but meta will always be the classes that are currently outshining others.

[Iozeph.5617]

@"reddie.5861" said:i dont really wannabe a kitten but why its always thief/mesmer getting hammered for what they do coming out of stealth?yes u cant predict balabala

but for example yesterday i was fighting warrior he hits me for 10k and then constant hits of 5k to 7k dmg, while i have to bail in and out constantly on my thief yet he just pops invul shield block another invul blabala if i would stay like a "man" to fight he would simply tear me apart cus i have barely any deffence to handle it.same with my ranger i can easily down most classes from save distant with insane amount of dmg just because its not done in 1 hit but multiple ones doesnt change fact that at the end of run its same kitten to me.

Fb just out heals most crap how is that balanced?necro's constantly corrupt all your crap and have insta cast barrier etc.

at the end of run every class has something that is "good" yet when one class instantly tears you a new 1 and its pretty much only thing its good at its not fair.i find it not fair that i have pretty much dumped my thief cus beside a few builds (that i dont enjoy) you need bit more time to kill while other classes (like my example warrior) just soaks up all your dmg and then just pushes you over like its nothing.

stop crying for something that happends to you ones a hour in WvW if not less look at the big picture..if anything is OP then its FB/Scourge why? because they are most played dont give me meta excuse meta is based on OP crap.if u had left meteor shower like this meta would surely change to Ele's and few scourges and not mainly scourges.if you make rangers hit target they have as target and nothing in between and hit even more harder then rangers would be accepted in meta also.if Thiefs would poop out boons while having sustain of warrior they would be meta also.if Engie heal boost would have been done over the top FB wouldnt be heal bots anymore and alot less wanted.

meta is around OP crap it might be balanced more or less but meta will always be the classes that are currently outshining others.

Because it's the same psych out, intimidation rubbish that every opponent, those who don't want to you use whatever ability you have to keep things on an even playing field, will try to goad or bully you into in order to get themselves an easy win.

"Don't attack from stealth. Don't dodge. Don't attack from maximum range -even if your profession happens to be built around doing just that- because my Conan the Barbarian replica has to be able to engage you in open field, within under one hundred and thirty units, and armed with only a paring knife whilst you stand there with your hands tied behind your back in order for you to be considered an honourable opponent. Do all this and then, only then, you'll have earned earn my dubious respect, oh person over the internet whom I shall never meet, ever."

If Anet would just balance competitive modes first and then worry about balancing PVE content and encountres around that level of damage output we'd all be in a better spot. After all, in PVE -say in the case of a raid, fractal, or dungeon bosses- a health bar should just be a health bar. Power creep shouldn't have to be considered a necessary evil if you know how to keep that in perspective when building content for the players in those modes. The players in those modes are going to burn through that content and forget it. Meanwhile the more fragile modes, competitives, are subject to the greatest upheavals from the slightest of changes.

You'd figure Anet knows this from over a decade and more of designing this content. The short, short answer is that they probably do and they just don't care. So play the way you want -within the bounds of the rules and reason- and to hell with anyone trying to discourage you from it.

[oOStaticOo.9467]

"So play the way you want -within the bounds of the rules and reason- and to hell with anyone trying to discourage you from it."

Oh no. You can't do that. That's a no-no. I've learned my lesson on this. If you do that you'll be in BIG trouble.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

@Iozeph.5617 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:I'm an apologist of just deleting stealth, already said on these forums why.But if you insist on having this kitten mechanic, just remove the capability to stack it and make it reveal you whether you attack or not. Also redesign Shadow Meld, counters to counters are just dumb to begin with.

Then they would have to Rework a lot of things and remove a lot of the counterplay to counterplay in game, like Resistance would have to not be Corruptible, Unblockables would have to be removed(since Blocks are there to counterplay Attacks), Revealed would have to be removed since Stealth is Counterplay to being targeted/seen..the list goes on

They wouldn't have to rework a lot of things.I understand the idea behind those and how it's supposed to add an addional tactical layer, but it's still dumb because the "mid" counterplay becomes useless.But hey I guess we can add more and more counterplay to counterplay!Let's add "Kormir's sight", while under this boon you can see stealthed players. How cool is that to counter shadowmeld? Then we can give thieves some boon corruption tools to corrupt "Kormir's sight" into "You can't see kitten" in which your monitor turns all black"!Let's add "Kormir's fleshshield" which turns unblockables into blockables! And then "Abaddon's power" which penetrates "Kormir fleshshield".Sounds like a cool game, right?! No, it sounds like crap, because that's what counterplay to counterplay is - crap.

I want stealth gone but I wouldn't dare ask for it, not even on the worst of my days.

Yes, they would have to rework some things and even those few would break the game for everyone else. Some examples.

Remove stealth from thieves and what do you give them in return? For a start you change many of their weapon skills to include more evade frames. They'll be given access to long duration weakness and blinds. Then, as they no longer have stealth, in compensation they'll get an additional bar of endurance baseline with an additional one to be traited for in acrobatics. Add on the additional one they'll get from traiting Daredevil, the on-dodge abilities they have within that spec line, and suddenly you're looking at five dodges -something far worse than it ever was when they had stealth. Imagine that one v one. Imagine that two or even five v one.

It would be a new meta in no time, annoying as hell - The Daredevil Dodge Blob. What fun.

This is not the first thread about stealth and I think we all agree that no other game made stealth as absurdly broken as gw2 and stealth is awful on other games as well.

The "thief without stealth is squishy" is just another repeated lie that became a truth, apart from deadeye and d/p no thief builds even use stealth.Just rework utility stealth skills, stealth traits, dagger and pistol 5 and turn stealth attacks into something else, can even be you do a backstab type of damage after an evade for all I care.

Edit: Or even better, remove stealth and bring back chain attacks like in gw1

[Iozeph.5617]

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@Iozeph.5617 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:I'm an apologist of just deleting stealth, already said on these forums why.But if you insist on having this kitten mechanic, just remove the capability to stack it and make it reveal you whether you attack or not. Also redesign Shadow Meld, counters to counters are just dumb to begin with.

Then they would have to Rework a lot of things and remove a lot of the counterplay to counterplay in game, like Resistance would have to not be Corruptible, Unblockables would have to be removed(since Blocks are there to counterplay Attacks), Revealed would have to be removed since Stealth is Counterplay to being targeted/seen..the list goes on

They wouldn't have to rework a lot of things.I understand the idea behind those and how it's supposed to add an addional tactical layer, but it's still dumb because the "mid" counterplay becomes useless.But hey I guess we can add more and more counterplay to counterplay!Let's add "Kormir's sight", while under this boon you can see stealthed players. How cool is that to counter shadowmeld? Then we can give thieves some boon corruption tools to corrupt "Kormir's sight" into "You can't see kitten" in which your monitor turns all black"!Let's add "Kormir's fleshshield" which turns unblockables into blockables! And then "Abaddon's power" which penetrates "Kormir fleshshield".Sounds like a cool game, right?! No, it sounds like crap, because that's what counterplay to counterplay is - crap.

I want stealth gone but I wouldn't dare ask for it, not even on the worst of my days.

Yes, they would have to rework some things and even those few would break the game for everyone else. Some examples.

Remove stealth from thieves and what do you give them in return? For a start you change many of their weapon skills to include more evade frames. They'll be given access to long duration weakness and blinds. Then, as they no longer have stealth, in compensation they'll get an additional bar of endurance baseline with an additional one to be traited for in acrobatics. Add on the additional one they'll get from traiting Daredevil, the on-dodge abilities they have within that spec line, and suddenly you're looking at five dodges -something far worse than it ever was when they had stealth. Imagine that one v one. Imagine that two or even five v one.

It would be a new meta in no time, annoying as hell - The Daredevil Dodge Blob. What fun.

This is not the first thread about stealth and I think we all agree that no other game made stealth as absurdly broken as gw2 and stealth is awful on other games as well.

The "thief without stealth is squishy" is just another repeated lie that became a truth, apart from deadeye and d/p no thief builds even use stealth.Just rework utility stealth skills, stealth traits, dagger and pistol 5 and turn stealth attacks into something else, can even be you do a backstab type of damage after an evade for all I care.

Edit: Or even better, remove stealth and bring back chain attacks like in gw1

Actually, and I'm not just saying this to be a contrarian, guild wars two is one of the better implementations of stealth because it gives your opponent a fighting chance by comparison to the example I'm going to mention.

Dark Age of Camelot's implementation for their assassin classes was perma stealth. Roaming invisibly so long as you didn't attack someone. They were also a high evade class once out in the open. But being that when in the frontier they could and did roam in packs -non-squad groups there were eight strong- and could lay in waiting at any natural choke point, milegates etc. and then pounce. Their abilities were also given significant damage increases/multipliers if executed from stealth. Abilities which on a single character could nearly down even the tankiest of enemies. When encountred in groups this made leaving a border fort for the frontier in order to link up with a raiding party(those going after a tower or keep) a near impossibility.

Assassin classes there had style chains as well as the ability to spec into regular weapons lines which they shared with other class archetypes(Armsmen, Mercenaries just to call up Albion's versions of medium and heavy armour wearing warrior types) which would stack damage on top of their other class-defining spec lines critical strikes, dual wield, and the use of poisons on blades. This made for characters which could not only murder others in near one go from stealth but also made for evade tanks capable of still dealing with a heavily armoured opponents when out of it.

Much as I hate stealth in most games, at least in GW2 there's a chance to run and a chance these players, once they've attacked, are going to be vulnerable to countre attack. or at least that they'll be forced to run.

As for the Deadeye, I'm guessing that Anet added them as a countre to professions(at least in world versus world) which now boast health totals well in excess of thirty thousand points - some nearing forty. Not that it matters. Damage is insane on everybody- well most everybody. In WvW I often run on the deeper side of the health pool for my given characters -well over twenty thousand and or with higher toughness if I'm able to fit it in. It hasn't been the Deadeyes which have finished me off in skirmishes though they've done the lion's share of softening me up but when examining my combat logues it's been the other players roaming with them - Mesmers, Rangers, and just about any other enemy profession with a solid burstish attack from nine hundred to fifteen hundred units away.

Not enjoyable being made to run back so quickly but there's enough CC - knockdowns, pulls, dazes , lifts, etc. as well as enough damage potential in these other non stealth elite professions now that if I'm caught roaming in a small group or alone the best that not having the Deadeye there to hit me first is going to give me is a few extra seconds before I'm downed regardless.

You're taking your time, your enjoyment, and your character's life in your hands just wandering down a road in the open, even if there were no stealth professions. That's just the state of the game right now. Stealth is just a small part of everything that's wrong and it's a bit unfair singling it out.

[sneakytails.5629]

Whenever I come across a DE on my core Warrior I just go full cheese and switch to double EP with the shout reveal. I let them proc my Passive EP and then save the skillbar EP for just after they remove my second reveal.

I usually never run double EP but I will against DE. Sometimes you just gotta bust out the cheese.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

@Iozeph.5617 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@Iozeph.5617 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:I'm an apologist of just deleting stealth, already said on these forums why.But if you insist on having this kitten mechanic, just remove the capability to stack it and make it reveal you whether you attack or not. Also redesign Shadow Meld, counters to counters are just dumb to begin with.

Then they would have to Rework a lot of things and remove a lot of the counterplay to counterplay in game, like Resistance would have to not be Corruptible, Unblockables would have to be removed(since Blocks are there to counterplay Attacks), Revealed would have to be removed since Stealth is Counterplay to being targeted/seen..the list goes on

They wouldn't have to rework a lot of things.I understand the idea behind those and how it's supposed to add an addional tactical layer, but it's still dumb because the "mid" counterplay becomes useless.But hey I guess we can add more and more counterplay to counterplay!Let's add "Kormir's sight", while under this boon you can see stealthed players. How cool is that to counter shadowmeld? Then we can give thieves some boon corruption tools to corrupt "Kormir's sight" into "You can't see kitten" in which your monitor turns all black"!Let's add "Kormir's fleshshield" which turns unblockables into blockables! And then "Abaddon's power" which penetrates "Kormir fleshshield".Sounds like a cool game, right?! No, it sounds like crap, because that's what counterplay to counterplay is - crap.

I want stealth gone but I wouldn't dare ask for it, not even on the worst of my days.

Yes, they would have to rework some things and even those few would break the game for everyone else. Some examples.

Remove stealth from thieves and what do you give them in return? For a start you change many of their weapon skills to include more evade frames. They'll be given access to long duration weakness and blinds. Then, as they no longer have stealth, in compensation they'll get an additional bar of endurance baseline with an additional one to be traited for in acrobatics. Add on the additional one they'll get from traiting Daredevil, the on-dodge abilities they have within that spec line, and suddenly you're looking at five dodges -something far worse than it ever was when they had stealth. Imagine that one v one. Imagine that two or even five v one.

It would be a new meta in no time, annoying as hell - The Daredevil Dodge Blob. What fun.

This is not the first thread about stealth and I think we all agree that no other game made stealth as absurdly broken as gw2 and stealth is awful on other games as well.

The "thief without stealth is squishy" is just another repeated lie that became a truth, apart from deadeye and d/p no thief builds even use stealth.Just rework utility stealth skills, stealth traits, dagger and pistol 5 and turn stealth attacks into something else, can even be you do a backstab type of damage after an evade for all I care.

Edit: Or even better, remove stealth and bring back chain attacks like in gw1

Actually, and I'm not just saying this to be a contrarian, guild wars two is one of the better implementations of stealth because it gives your opponent a fighting chance by comparison to the example I'm going to mention.

Dark Age of Camelot's implementation for their assassin classes was perma stealth. Roaming invisibly so long as you didn't attack someone. They were also a high evade class once out in the open. But being that when in the frontier they could and did roam in packs -non-squad groups there were eight strong- and could lay in waiting at any natural choke point, milegates etc. and then pounce. Their abilities were also given significant damage increases/multipliers if executed from stealth. Abilities which on a single character could nearly down even the tankiest of enemies. When encountred in groups this made leaving a border fort for the frontier in order to link up with a raiding party(those going after a tower or keep) a near impossibility.

Assassin classes there had style chains as well as the ability to spec into regular weapons lines which they shared with other class archetypes(Armsmen, Mercenaries just to call up Albion's versions of medium and heavy armour wearing warrior types) which would stack damage on top of their other class-defining spec lines critical strikes, dual wield, and the use of poisons on blades. This made for characters which could not only murder others in near one go from stealth but also made for evade tanks capable of still dealing with a heavily armoured opponents when out of it.

Much as I hate stealth in most games, at least in GW2 there's a chance to run and a chance these players, once they've attacked, are going to be vulnerable to countre attack. or at least that they'll be forced to run.

As for the Deadeye, I'm guessing that Anet added them as a countre to professions(at least in world versus world) which now boast health totals well in excess of thirty thousand points - some nearing forty. Not that it matters. Damage is insane on everybody- well most everybody. In WvW I often run on the deeper side of the health pool for my given characters -well over twenty thousand and or with higher toughness if I'm able to fit it in. It hasn't been the Deadeyes which have finished me off in skirmishes though they've done the lion's share of softening me up but when examining my combat logues it's been the other players roaming with them - Mesmers, Rangers, and just about any other enemy profession with a solid burstish attack from nine hundred to fifteen hundred units away.

Not enjoyable being made to run back so quickly but there's enough CC - knockdowns, pulls, dazes , lifts, etc. as well as enough damage potential in these other non stealth elite professions now that if I'm caught roaming in a small group or alone the best that not having the Deadeye there to hit me first is going to give me is a few extra seconds before I'm downed regardless.

You're taking your time, your enjoyment, and your character's life in your hands just wandering down a road in the open, even if there were no stealth professions. That's just the state of the game right now. Stealth is just a small part of everything that's wrong and it's a bit unfair singling it out.

Don't know about DAoC, never played it, but there are more games that allow perma-stealth until you engange on combat, honestly I don't take that as bad as long as you can't (or can in a very limited way get stealth again).As for stealth attacks it's the same on this game, you can 20k backstab easily on core thief, DE, or just combo it with DD.

DE was a thief request since HoT was announced, both here and on reddit thieves were asking for rifle, and I'm totally fine with it (as long as you don't demand 1500 range or even 1800 range on rifle like thieves did on forums).I don't have any problem dealing with DE neither on mesmer nor on ranger (wvw) but it can get boring quickly because DE's stealth again as soon as they fire dj or death retreat in case they can't.

On the damage thing I agree, this game has away too much damage, but not only that, too much of everything. Heck! A single skill can do as much as one entire build on the previous game!

And I agree entirely with your last sentence, since the thread is about stealth I mentioned my beliefs on it, even did on shadowsteps to show my thoughts. And again I main mesmer so this affects me too on both stealth and shadowsteps.

[Aeolus.3615]

@ninao.1208 said:I also got hit with 20k+ crits some times, while using pwr/tgh/vit armor, that's just ridiculous, a single successful crit hit can headshot a lot of builds, I'm not crying about players taking advantage of it, the game allows to do it, so ppl will do it. This is just terrible balance. Stuff like this is the reason I don't spend money in the gem store, heck, I'm already regretting the money I spent in the HoT/PoF expansions.Max crit dmg from a single skill should be caped. I don't give a dam if ppl can heashot mobs in pve, but in a game mode where ppl fight other players it is ridiculous.

Revenant shield can stop and absorv 100% catapult shot, and i got so many times 1 shooted trough the block while i root myself to get some heal xD.

Anet told me once they were professionals, they know what they are doing.