Daredevil vs Deadeye

[babazhook.6805]

It has nothing to do with a forced meta... It's about roles being forced on us instead, because the "additional roles" that Elite Specs would be supposed to give, are simply not there. They've been building on what we could do and enhanced it (DE for Stealth, DD for Mobility).

Well I would have to disagree here. Whether it player based or whether it the very nature of the point scoring system in Pvp , the meta is forced. I have read enough of the forums in Pvp to know that the thief who does not follow his defined script is seen as a handicap to his team and I have seen enough screenshots of the vitriol received by players who do not follow the Meta to know that the playerbase itself is playing a role here.

This certainly as a lot to do with human nature and the "I just want to WIN" mentality but there something to be said for a group of people just wanting to go out and have some fun using the classes and skills THEY have perfected and forget about how it affects ones "ranking".

I suppose this one reason I prefer WvW to other modes. I can freeform and play the way I want and there much less spresuure from the playerbase to do everything in the way they have deemed "The Right way". It also why I am fundamentally opposed to imposing PvP type "fixes" on WvW (the amulet system) , for the sake of "balance".

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

@"Vornollo.5182" said:Core Thief, Daredevil, Deadeye...None of them provides us with any tools to do anything in sPvP other than +1 and mobile rotations.If you want to do anything else in sPvP, sure you can try it with Core/DD/DE, but you're better off simply rolling to a different profession because whatever it is you're trying to accomplish. Another profession will do it better.

Not exactly. The damage from Deadeye D/P is the best compared to DD and Core, but people in sPvP has this expectation that the Thief should do the decap. If what you say is true that "another profession will do it better" (which I agree by the way) then another profession should be doing the decap and +1. The Thief can build towards damage and effective burst and stay in defending the node. No other profession can do ambushes better than the Thief. Instead, we see Thief builds sacrificing damage for the sake of mobility and survivability. I have witnessed that even the professional Thief player struggles to take a node from a single defender. The saddest part is that the Thief even struggles in a team fight 3v3, 4v4. Now that the Thief has access to Deadeye and DE D/P excels in team fights, people wants Deadeye D/P to sacrifice damage to fit the role of decapper and +1. I think that is a very shallow perception.

I do agree that there are times that another profession other than the Thief is a better choice. This is only if the team composition is already weak to begin with.

That's really the issue we're facing here.Elite Specializations are supposed to provide us with new and refreshing playstyles. What they have been doing for Thief though, is simply enhance what we already got.Daredevil enhanced our Mobility, Deadeye enhanced our Stealth (and Damage).That's very bluntly put, but that's what it comes down to.

I agree, but Deadeye is more about enhancing Regular Attacks and Stealth Attacks. It does nothing to enhance stealth. It is an Elite Spec that specializes in dealing big number damage.

Now because Stealth isn't nearly as useful in sPvP and mobility is (especially in the highly rotational based gameplay that a Thief actually still does better than any other profession). Add to that, that the extra Damage provided by Deadeye is largely negligible due to the very nature of what a quick +1 is, and Daredevil/Core already providing plenty of burst if you actually play the role right. That's why D/P Dash Daredevil and Core S/D Acrobatics Thief have been meta for sPvP, rather than Deadeye.

Daredevil can only effectively +1 if the profession its helping is already doing a good job and the DD only comes in to finish the job. If it requires two of you to take down one target, then that's your team composition problem right there. Daredevil D/P and Core S/D are meta but do exactly the same thing - mobility to decap. Deadeye in either D/P or S/D can deal more damage.

Anyone arguing that Dash's Exhaustion is not debilitating because 90% of the time it is used outside combat only means that the Thief is not contributing in a team fight 90% of the time.

It has nothing to do with a forced meta... It's about roles being forced on us instead, because the "additional roles" that Elite Specs would be supposed to give, are simply not there. They've been building on what we could do and enhanced it (DE for Stealth, DD for Mobility).

That is absolutely true. However, the meta is the role and role is the meta. If you are forced to fill a role, you are forced to build based on the meta for that role. The meta is forced if there are no other choices to fulfill that role.

With the Deadeye, it breaks the meta/role mentality and it shakes up the status quo that's why there are push backs, which is expected. Deadeye cannot perform the forced role thus is it dismissed as non-meta effectively ignoring its damage potential.

So let's hope the next Elite Spec turns us into a proper Bruiser, a Node Holder, a Support or heck, a proper Duelist again and make them on par to similar builds of other professions.

No need for another Elite Spec that does all that. All they need to do is allow Stealth Capping, fix the long-running shadowstep bug, and make 150 endurance baseline.

But our existing Elites just don't bring anything new to the table to shake up the sPvP meta, simple as that. Sucks big time though.

Allowing stealth capping will open up a lot of builds. The fact of the matter is, ArenaNet obviously does not like balancing too many things in sPvP that's why they limit what role the Thief can do. Thus forcing the meta by only adjusting skills that fulfill that role.

[Tails.9372]

@"babazhook.6805" said:I suppose this one reason I prefer WvW to other modes. I can freeform and play the way I want and there much less spresuure from the playerbase to do everything in the way they have deemed "The Right way".Even WvW feels very restrictive, not in the sense that you get s**t from other players but the game itself is more punishing thanks to the horrendous "class" balance from A-Net. At this point I just avoid other players if possible as fighting them has become nothing more than a nuisance.

[Vornollo.5182]

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

@"Vornollo.5182" said:Core Thief, Daredevil, Deadeye...None of them provides us with any tools to do anything in sPvP other than +1 and mobile rotations.If you want to do anything else in sPvP, sure you can try it with Core/DD/DE, but you're better off simply rolling to a different profession because whatever it is you're trying to accomplish. Another profession

will

do it better.

Not exactly. The damage from Deadeye D/P is the best compared to DD and Core, but people in sPvP has this expectation that the Thief should do the decap. If what you say is true that "another profession will do it better" (which I agree by the way) then another profession should be doing the decap and +1. The Thief can build towards damage and effective burst and stay in defending the node. No other profession can do ambushes better than the Thief. Instead, we see Thief builds sacrificing damage for the sake of mobility and survivability. I have witnessed that even the professional Thief player struggles to take a node from a single defender. The saddest part is that the Thief even struggles in a team fight 3v3, 4v4. Now that the Thief has access to Deadeye and DE D/P excels in team fights, people wants Deadeye D/P to sacrifice damage to fit the role of decapper and +1. I think that is a very shallow perception.

I do agree that there are times that another profession other than the Thief is a better choice. This is only if the team composition is already weak to begin with.

That's the entire thing though... DE's additional damage isn't actually needed in a +1 and/or decap role. If you want damage, just play Herald, Holo, Scourge... Heck, Radiant Core Guard does better at it plus all of these got better teamfight and/or bruiser capabilities.DE's better damage is great, but it's not required to be efficient in our existing role and it's not great enough to warrant a new playstyle and/or change of role.

That's really the issue we're facing here.Elite Specializations are supposed to provide us with new and refreshing playstyles. What they have been doing for Thief though, is simply enhance what we already got.Daredevil enhanced our Mobility, Deadeye enhanced our Stealth (and Damage).That's very bluntly put, but that's what it comes down to.

I agree, but Deadeye is more about enhancing Regular Attacks and Stealth Attacks. It does nothing to enhance stealth. It is an Elite Spec that specializes in dealing big number damage.

Fair enough, but still doesn't do anything for our position as a +1/decap role.

Now because Stealth isn't nearly as useful in sPvP and mobility is (

especially in the highly rotational based gameplay that a Thief actually still does better than any other profession

). Add to that, that the extra Damage provided by Deadeye is largely negligible due to the very nature of what a quick +1 is, and Daredevil/Core already providing plenty of burst if you actually play the role right. That's why D/P Dash Daredevil and Core S/D Acrobatics Thief have been meta for sPvP, rather than Deadeye.

Daredevil can only effectively +1 if the profession its helping is already doing a good job and the DD only comes in to finish the job. If it requires two of you to take down one target, then that's your team composition problem right there. Daredevil D/P and Core S/D are meta but do exactly the same thing - mobility to decap. Deadeye in either D/P or S/D can deal more damage.

Anyone arguing that Dash's Exhaustion is not debilitating because 90% of the time it is used outside combat only means that the Thief is not contributing in a team fight 90% of the time.

True, but even as D/P or S/D Deadeye, you're not going to be winning most 1v1's any time soon either, not without having to give up the node and more often than not, letting your enemy get the full-cap. This is because of Stealth and/or ports which will force us to play around the node, rather than on it. Again, better damage equates to nothing here. You're still going to need to have a pretty decent team for it to work regardless of whether you play Core, DD or DE.Dash' Exhaustion can be annoying, true. But a lot of it's problems get fixed by your own positioning and actions. You can avoid the vast majority of condi's (

condi's in general, not just the ones that cause exhaustion

) by your decisions with placement, when you move in, when you move out, what you blind/interrupt and so on and so forth. Sometimes all your need to do is simply bait a bit and CD's will be used like candy...

It has nothing to do with a forced meta... It's about roles being forced on us instead, because the "additional roles" that Elite Specs would be supposed to give, are simply not there. They've been building on what we could do and enhanced it (DE for Stealth, DD for Mobility).

That is absolutely true. However, the meta is the role and role is the meta. If you are forced to fill a role, you are forced to build based on the meta for that role. The meta is forced if there are no other choices to fulfill that role.

With the Deadeye, it breaks the meta/role mentality and it shakes up the status quo that's why there are push backs, which is expected. Deadeye cannot perform the forced role thus is it dismissed as non-meta effectively ignoring its damage potential.

Mainly the part here is "Deadeye cannot perform the forced role thus is it dismissed as non-meta effectively ignoring its damage potential."Like you say, it cannot shine in the current meta-role of +1/Decap. So yeah, it's indeed dismissed for that in favour of DD/Core (and other professions actually).Problem is... DE doesn't outshine any other profession in any other field either, other than Stealth stacking. Ranged damage? Play LB Soulbeast. Melee Damage? Enjoy getting blown up by more sustainable Heralds, Holo's, Mirages... etc.Everyone knows that DE has a lot of damage, quite a few people get caught off-guard at the start of a match by that one guy sitting somewhere on the maximum 1500 range pew-pewing orange lasers of death.However, that's it, it's the start of the match. It's rather easy to adapt and get back into it. DE Rifle (and P/P for that matter) gets countered in so many ways that it's just quite pointless to give it a lot of thought. Most classes can do Block+Damage, Evade+damage at the same time or just sit in the reflecting bubble of a Guard/FB and deal counter-pressure.So again... Other classes are simply better suited for the "DPS" sort of role...

So let's hope the next Elite Spec turns us into a proper Bruiser, a Node Holder, a Support or heck, a proper Duelist again and make them on par to similar builds of other professions.

No need for another Elite Spec that does all that. All they need to do is allow Stealth Capping, fix the long-running shadowstep bug, and make 150 endurance baseline.

Stealth Capping was removed for good reasons that still apply today. It'd also make for incredible stale gameplay...Not to mention, it's really quite easy for a lot of people to simply spam a ton of AoE on a node and force you off there, regardless of your stealth. Maybe if we'd get a Thief-only Toughness+Vitality+Healing Power+Concentration Amulet, so you could play like a Ninja-Nurse sort of thing, you could sustain... But let's stay somewhat serious here.150 Endurance baseline... I'd actually like it, I wouldn't complain at all. However, I do think it's a bit silly and it'd detract from the Daredevil Elite Spec, unless you'd give them 200 Endurance..? Otherwise Acrobatics would end up outshining it I would assume... I'd consider that a little bit of justice though, considering the pre-HoT nerfs it recieved, lol.Shadowstep bug should've been hotfixed years ago, true. Wouldn't place Thief in a different sort of role though.

But our existing Elites just don't bring anything new to the table to shake up the sPvP meta, simple as that. Sucks big time though.

Allowing stealth capping will open up a lot of builds. The fact of the matter is, ArenaNet obviously does not like balancing too many things in sPvP that's why they limit what role the Thief can do. Thus forcing the meta by only adjusting skills that fulfill that role.Again, Stealth decapping is really not a solution... It'd break the gamemode, cause a ton of salt (

even more "nerf thief wahwahwahwhawah cry topics

) and it'd actually be rather quite useless due to how easy it is to counter nowadays. You could probably keep the Graveyard node on Foefire contested for the entire game though...

Sure, allowing Thieves to not lose a node simply because they stealthed would help a little bit, especially for S/D I think... Even D/D perhaps. But really... You'd still get forced off-node too easy, considering the current state of most other professions and their respective Elite Specializations.

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

@Vornollo.5182 said:

The Thief is easily forced off the node only because they are denied one of their key defenses: stealth.

[Arioch.4810]

AT or "regular" pvp? In regular PvP i have no guarantee team comp will work with my DE, i would go with DD nine times out of ten. For ATs, thanks to a different approach (and ability to switch ) DE could work but i would still pick DD because of my personal prefrences.

S/D condi DE is a good pick to learn the ropes of DD in conquest - having more raw dmg in exchange for stealth access, while not losing much (if anything) in mobility department. Basic rotation is also simple, but later on you have some depth to your gameplay.Be advised that build is horrible for PvE in most cases - staff DD is the golden standard of open world PvE.

[DeceiverX.8361]

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

@Vornollo.5182 said:

The Thief is easily forced off the node only because they are denied one of their key defenses: stealth.

Nonsense. Into a real point-holding or cleave damage build like a reaper it doesn't matter; it's just going to die while invisible.

[Vornollo.5182]

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

@Vornollo.5182 said:

The Thief is easily forced off the node only because they are denied one of their key defenses: stealth.

Sorry, missed this quotation earlier.But no, no that's just blatantly false... Sure, some people think that invisibility equals invincibility, but every Thief player knows that's just not true. We still take a crap ton of damage, even if you go into Shadow Arts to run with 'Cloaked in Shadow' (cannot be critically hit while in Stealth).Other professions, especially the ones used as side-node bruisers, not to even start on the teamfighters, got so much AoE and node-wide pressure, that you will just die regardless of being stealthed or not.Thief is just too squishy for that sort of thing, nothing we currently got access to changes that. If you'd want to improve our on-node sustain (and pressure!) you'd need to powercreep the living hell out of Core Thief features to the point where the same 'Cloaked in Shadow' does in fact grant Invincibility the moment you're Stealthed. Which most definitely would not be healthy for the game, plus they'd still need to make Stealthed Node-contesting a thing, which I still really don't think is a good idea either.Maybe change Instant Reflexes to have a no ICD while we're at it...Like seriously..? How would you think that Stealth-capture would work in today's game? Going to try and perma-stealth just on the edges of AoE fields until your opponent gets so bored of facerolling that they just leave you there?

Nah, only chance we got without Anet making stupid decisions for our existing (elite) specializations, is to get an Elite Specialization that actually revolves around the Bruiser/Duellist playstyle, maybe a support style, but support-types generally just get worn down over time in 1v1 situations... Wouldn't like to see that personally. Not yet, maybe the Elite Specialization after we got our Bruiser/Duellist mojo back.

[babazhook.6805]

@Vornollo.5182 said:

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

@Vornollo.5182 said:

The Thief is easily forced off the node only because they are denied one of their key defenses: stealth.

Sorry, missed this quotation earlier.But no, no that's just blatantly false... Sure, some people think that invisibility equals invincibility, but every Thief player knows that's just not true. We still take a crap ton of damage, even if you go into Shadow Arts to run with 'Cloaked in Shadow' (

cannot be critically hit while in Stealth

).Other professions, especially the ones used as side-node bruisers, not to even start on the teamfighters, got so much AoE and node-wide pressure, that you will just die regardless of being stealthed or not.Thief is just too squishy for that sort of thing, nothing we currently got access to changes that. If you'd want to improve our on-node sustain (and pressure!) you'd need to powercreep the living hell out of Core Thief features to the point where the same 'Cloaked in Shadow' does in fact grant Invincibility the moment you're Stealthed. Which most definitely would not be healthy for the game, plus they'd still need to make Stealthed Node-contesting a thing, which I still really don't think is a good idea either.Maybe change Instant Reflexes to have a no ICD while we're at it...Like seriously..? How would you think that Stealth-capture would work in today's game? Going to try and perma-stealth

just

on the edges of AoE fields until your opponent gets so bored of facerolling that they just leave you there?

Nah, only chance we got without Anet making stupid decisions for our existing (elite) specializations, is to get an Elite Specialization that actually revolves around the Bruiser/Duellist playstyle, maybe a support style, but support-types generally just get worn down over time in 1v1 situations... Wouldn't like to see that personally. Not yet, maybe the Elite Specialization after we got our Bruiser/Duellist mojo back.

The ability to eat damage while stealthed is being Understated. if in SA CIS prevents all crits but the combination of Iron sights and SR is also a 25 percent and 10 percent damage reduction source. Trait up with Valkyrie as suggested by MUDSE and you can take those hits stealthed.

The Issue is of course that as you remain stealthed the enemy can just dish out damage and EVENTUALLY wear you down but the point remains that against a single opponent you can last quite some time while stealthed due to CIS and the Damage reduction traits. Damage OUT in PVP tends to be lower across all classes then in WvW. The reduced damage traits in either mode (Cis Iron Sight and SR) are constants meaning they have even a greater effect in PvP.

This translates to the thief in fact being able to stay on Node a LOT longer if they can stealth . Throw in the fact that SE continually flushes damaging conditions and you can deal with a lot of that AOE being dropped around.

Now I do not PVP but see something similar in WvW when camp flipping. granted the camps are a larger size but the fact remains if I could prevent a camp flipping as I drop to stealth it would be orders of magnitude harder for the enemy to flip the camp in his favor , this even if I was eating damage while stealthed.

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

@Vornollo.5182 said:

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

@Vornollo.5182 said:

The Thief is easily forced off the node only because they are denied one of their key defenses: stealth.

Sorry, missed this quotation earlier.But no, no that's just blatantly false... Sure, some people think that invisibility equals invincibility, but every Thief player knows that's just not true. We still take a crap ton of damage, even if you go into Shadow Arts to run with 'Cloaked in Shadow' (

cannot be critically hit while in Stealth

).Other professions, especially the ones used as side-node bruisers, not to even start on the teamfighters, got so much AoE and node-wide pressure, that you will just die regardless of being stealthed or not.Thief is just too squishy for that sort of thing, nothing we currently got access to changes that. If you'd want to improve our on-node sustain (and pressure!) you'd need to powercreep the living hell out of Core Thief features to the point where the same 'Cloaked in Shadow' does in fact grant Invincibility the moment you're Stealthed. Which most definitely would not be healthy for the game, plus they'd still need to make Stealthed Node-contesting a thing, which I still really don't think is a good idea either.

You have a lot of contradicting points here.First, how is the Thief take crap ton of damage in stealth if the spec for SA which has a lot of damage mitigation traits?Second, if stealth is not a good defense, why would stealth capping not a good idea? The only reason stealth capping wouldn't be a good idea is if stealth is actually a really good form of defense.

The problem is, by not being able to cap the node while stealth removes stealth as an option for the Thief's defense. In order to prevent a decap while fighting in the node, the Thief is reduced to rely on evasion as the only form of defense - this is why the Thief is "squishy". Once endurance is depleted, the Thief is forced out of the node. If the Thief can utilize their primary defense, which is stealth, they can last longer on the node by alternating between stealth and evasion. Also, you are downplaying the effectiveness of dropping target lock.

By going invisible, the Thief has practically reduced the opponent's options by preventing them from using targetted skills. Yes, cleave and AoE can still deal damage, but the fact that they cannot see the Thief prevents them from hitting the Thief dead center. All these are advantages in combat.

Maybe change Instant Reflexes to have a no ICD while we're at it...

...

Like seriously..? How would you think that Stealth-capture would work in today's game? Going to try and perma-stealth just on the edges of AoE fields until your opponent gets so bored of facerolling that they just leave you there?

Seriously? It's hard to tell that you're being serious using "perma-stealth" as an example. This statement contradicts your other statement, "you will just die regardless of being stealthed or not". So which is it? Stealth too good that you can perma-stealth decap or it's the worst that "you will just die regardless of being stealthed or not"?

Nah, only chance we got without Anet making stupid decisions for our existing (elite) specializations, is to get an Elite Specialization that actually revolves around the Bruiser/Duellist playstyle, maybe a support style, but support-types generally just get worn down over time in 1v1 situations... Wouldn't like to see that personally. Not yet, maybe the Elite Specialization after we got our Bruiser/Duellist mojo back.

Deadeye is a spiker. In GW1, a spiker is the one that deals the most damage after the teams loaded the target with debilitating effects. The way Deadeye is built and the way Exposed Weakness is retweaked, there is no doubt that Deadeye is a spiker. A good team composition with good communication can pull off a really good spike.

[necromaniac.7629]

@Scud.5067 said:Just want to add:

Deadeye wins because I can shoot people with a boat shaped as a gun. Or a gun shaped as a boat. Or a gun..boat. I..

Awesome.

which skin is that

[bq pd.2148]

@necromaniac.7629 said:

@"Scud.5067" said:Just want to add:

Deadeye wins because I can shoot people with a boat shaped as a gun. Or a gun shaped as a boat. Or a gun..boat. I..

Awesome.

which skin is that

this

[necromaniac.7629]

@MUDse.7623 said:

@necromaniac.7629 said:

@"Scud.5067" said:Just want to add:

Deadeye wins because I can shoot people with a boat shaped as a gun. Or a gun shaped as a boat. Or a gun..boat. I..

Awesome.

which skin is that

this

oh ok thx......ewe :/ that's an actual legendary :o

[bq pd.2148]

@necromaniac.7629 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@necromaniac.7629 said:

@"Scud.5067" said:Just want to add:

Deadeye wins because I can shoot people with a boat shaped as a gun. Or a gun shaped as a boat. Or a gun..boat. I..

Awesome.

which skin is that

this

oh ok thx......ewe :/ that's an actual legendary :o

yes, i really like that skin.as you cannot change your opponents projectile visuals but everything else, the only difference in efficency you can build for with skin choice is projectile animation in wich case the best rifle is Pop Gun. thats for me the only thing keeping me from building this legendary. if we get an option to allways see standard visuals for projectiles, i would build the weapon..

as for this thread i like how it is now more about the use of stealth. because stealth suffers the same issue as conditions, there are only hard counters and hard counters to the hard counters. in instances they are reliable, it makes condi or stealth obsolete and when they are unreliable it makes the counters obsolete. either way not ptomoting fun and interactive gameplay for both sides, because for that you need reliable soft counters. in case of condi it means for me that i wont play a pure condi build as it can be countered way too hard and this makes power allways better as a general choice. in case of the DE, especially when with SA the counter reveal is also alot more than a hardcounter. because on top of stealth, the effect that you are not seen it also disables nearly all traits in SA and most of the DE elite spec as its malice system is tied to stealth attacks. thats 1 counter to disable an effect + 2 traitlines. so obviously it will be kept mostly unreliable in that state, so i will use it.with a more reliable but soft counter to stealth, one could actually allow stealth holding nodes in sPvP or stuff in WvW. and SA is our face tank traitline, but we can only facetank damage while in stealth with it, so that stealth needs to be reliable aswell and we need to be able to hold nodes with it. with that and a change to shadow protector to give protection instead of regen, we could actually see thieves for holding nodes / duelling on nodes.an effect and its counter can be reliabe and anet was successful at it with unblockables. while you use unblockable skills you dont remove the block with that so both is reliable. so a counter to stealth has to make you see the thief to attack them, but not remove stealth as such because that affects all traits and mechanics tied to it as well as it would scale with numbers in a groupfight, if i use unblockable attacks against a blocking warrior for example, he might still block the guys next to me hitting him. but if i get revealed by lets say an engi, the thief next to him can abuse this too.depending on what anet does to stealth, that can really affect the thieves roles in spvp and the deadeye vs daredevil debate, just some minor changes needed and we can hold a point and execute targets in a team fight with the very same build wich should get us away from a +1/decap job.

[Tails.9372]

@necromaniac.7629 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@necromaniac.7629 said:

@"Scud.5067" said:Just want to add:

Deadeye wins because I can shoot people with a boat shaped as a gun. Or a gun shaped as a boat. Or a gun..boat. I..

Awesome.

which skin is that

this

oh ok thx......ewe :/ that's an actual legendary :oIkr, at least the first one is decent. I'm still hoping for some kind of futuristic laser rifle for the 3rd gen.

[necromaniac.7629]

@Tails.9372 said:

@necromaniac.7629 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@necromaniac.7629 said:

@"Scud.5067" said:Just want to add:

Deadeye wins because I can shoot people with a boat shaped as a gun. Or a gun shaped as a boat. Or a gun..boat. I..

Awesome.

which skin is that

this

oh ok thx......ewe :/ that's an actual legendary :oIkr, at least the first one is decent. I'm still hoping for some kind of futuristic laser rifle for the 3rd gen.

i guess hms divinity was their troll gen, yeah predator bad ass, does anet just keep making legendaries or are they gonna stop at some point

[necromaniac.7629]

@MUDse.7623 said:

@necromaniac.7629 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@necromaniac.7629 said:

@"Scud.5067" said:Just want to add:

Deadeye wins because I can shoot people with a boat shaped as a gun. Or a gun shaped as a boat. Or a gun..boat. I..

Awesome.

which skin is that

this

oh ok thx......ewe :/ that's an actual legendary :o

yes, i really like that skin.as you cannot change your opponents projectile visuals but everything else, the only difference in efficency you can build for with skin choice is projectile animation in wich case the best rifle is

Pop Gun

. thats for me the only thing keeping me from building this legendary. if we get an option to allways see standard visuals for projectiles, i would build the weapon..

as for this thread i like how it is now more about the use of stealth. because stealth suffers the same issue as conditions, there are only hard counters and hard counters to the hard counters. in instances they are reliable, it makes condi or stealth obsolete and when they are unreliable it makes the counters obsolete. either way not ptomoting fun and interactive gameplay for both sides, because for that you need reliable soft counters. in case of condi it means for me that i wont play a pure condi build as it can be countered way too hard and this makes power allways better as a general choice. in case of the DE, especially when with SA the counter reveal is also alot more than a hardcounter. because on top of stealth, the effect that you are not seen it also disables nearly all traits in SA and most of the DE elite spec as its malice system is tied to stealth attacks. thats 1 counter to disable an effect + 2 traitlines. so obviously it will be kept mostly unreliable in that state, so i will use it.with a more reliable but soft counter to stealth, one could actually allow stealth holding nodes in sPvP or stuff in WvW. and SA is our face tank traitline, but we can only facetank damage while in stealth with it, so that stealth needs to be reliable aswell and we need to be able to hold nodes with it. with that and a change to shadow protector to give protection instead of regen, we could actually see thieves for holding nodes / duelling on nodes.an effect and its counter can be reliabe and anet was successful at it with unblockables. while you use unblockable skills you dont remove the block with that so both is reliable. so a counter to stealth has to make you see the thief to attack them, but not remove stealth as such because that affects all traits and mechanics tied to it as well as it would scale with numbers in a groupfight, if i use unblockable attacks against a blocking warrior for example, he might still block the guys next to me hitting him. but if i get revealed by lets say an engi, the thief next to him can abuse this too.depending on what anet does to stealth, that can really affect the thieves roles in spvp and the deadeye vs daredevil debate, just some minor changes needed and we can hold a point and execute targets in a team fight with the very same build wich should get us away from a +1/decap job.

ye true

[Vornollo.5182]

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

@Vornollo.5182 said:

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

@Vornollo.5182 said:

The Thief is easily forced off the node only because they are denied one of their key defenses: stealth.

Sorry, missed this quotation earlier.But no, no that's just blatantly false... Sure, some people think that invisibility equals invincibility, but every Thief player knows that's just not true. We still take a crap ton of damage, even if you go into Shadow Arts to run with 'Cloaked in Shadow' (

cannot be critically hit while in Stealth

).Other professions, especially the ones used as side-node bruisers, not to even start on the teamfighters, got so much AoE and node-wide pressure, that you will just die regardless of being stealthed or not.Thief is just too squishy for that sort of thing, nothing we currently got access to changes that. If you'd want to improve our on-node sustain (and pressure!) you'd need to powercreep the living hell out of Core Thief features to the point where the same 'Cloaked in Shadow' does in fact grant Invincibility the moment you're Stealthed. Which most definitely would not be healthy for the game, plus they'd still need to make Stealthed Node-contesting a thing, which I still really don't think is a good idea either.

You have a lot of contradicting points here.First, how is the Thief take crap ton of damage in stealth if the spec for SA which has a lot of damage mitigation traits?Second, if stealth is not a good defense, why would stealth capping not a good idea? The only reason stealth capping wouldn't be a good idea is if stealth is actually a really good form of defense.

Because in sPvP, you don't have the gear options to really make this work. It limits you in such a way that either you'll have to sacrifice your sustain, or your damage. If you sacrifice your sustain, even SA's defensive modifiers just won't save you (I have tried this, just to see how far it could be pushed). A Holo will still be able to "smack the air" and CC -> kill you without even needing to see you, DH's still get a fair bit of play in sPvP and they can do pretty much the same, a Scourge (

many scourge players for some reason still decide to go for sidenodes at the weirdest of times

) will bomb the hell out of a point if they know you're there (the node not turning into their favor is a pretty large indicator for you being there with them), same for current Reaper builds for that matter.Showing yourself once to a Mirage, Herald, Core guard and the likes, you'll get blown up or forced off-node regardless of SA, because SA's defensive modifiers are largely useless without it's Stealth.If you build for some damage, you won't have the sustain to even hold out for a little bit, even with Menders Amulet, you just can't keep up right now. So there'd need to be pretty big changes beyond allowing stealth (de)capping.

Now assuming Stealth (de)capping were a thing... If you'd decide to go as tanky as possible, you could probably opt to just constantly sit in stealth just on the sides of a node and keep it contested until you bore your enemy to death by simply doing nothing at all... But kitten me, that'd be even more boring than the post-HoT bunker meta... No, really bad idea. How does that not seem like an obvious bad idea?If Stealth (de)capping were a thing and you'd build for damage, then you'd lack the sustain to outlast against the current meta regardless of the defensive modifiers.

The problem is, by not being able to cap the node while stealth removes stealth as an option for the Thief's defense. In order to prevent a decap while fighting in the node, the Thief is reduced to rely on evasion as the only form of defense - this is why the Thief is "squishy". Once endurance is depleted, the Thief is forced out of the node. If the Thief can utilize their primary defense, which is stealth, they can last longer on the node by alternating between stealth and evasion. Also, you are downplaying the effectiveness of dropping target lock.

By going invisible, the Thief has practically reduced the opponent's options by preventing them from using targetted skills. Yes, cleave and AoE can still deal damage, but the fact that they cannot see the Thief prevents them from hitting the Thief dead center. All these are advantages in combat.

I don't know about you, but I got no issues following enemy stealthed thieves, once I've seen them once in a fight. If they'd constantly sit in stealth and do nothing else... Well, I'll just go outnumber somewhere else, have fun afk-ing...

Maybe change Instant Reflexes to have a no ICD while we're at it...

...

Like seriously..? How would you think that Stealth-capture would work in today's game? Going to try and perma-stealth

just

on the edges of AoE fields until your opponent gets so bored of facerolling that they just leave you there?

Seriously? It's hard to tell that you're being serious using "perma-stealth" as an example. This statement contradicts your other statement, "you will just die regardless of being stealthed or not". So which is it? Stealth too good that you can perma-stealth decap or it's the worst that "you will just die regardless of being stealthed or not"?

Leading on from your previous point... Once a thief is seen, it's pretty easy to keep track of them even when they stealth again. Playing thief for several years, you can just predict the movement of 9/10 thieves that are left in this game, especially in the rather confined spaces of the Conquest maps.What you could choose to do to prevent that (because there's plenty more players able to do that...) is to constantly sit in stealth. If you don't leave stealth at any point, I don't know where you are (well, somewhere on the node ofcourse), and I'll have a pretty damn hard time finding where you are or where you're going. So yeah... Litteral Perma-Stealth is the only way to make that work against better players. Bad players would just whine about the boring stale gameplay . That's a trend we've seen with faceroll builds, "bunker" metas, "condi" metas, even now with "one shot" meta... Considering the history Stealth had with rant-topics... a "stealth" meta... Kitten me, I love me some salt, but that's just insane.

Nah, only chance we got without Anet making stupid decisions for our existing (elite) specializations, is to get an Elite Specialization that actually revolves around the Bruiser/Duellist playstyle, maybe a support style, but support-types generally just get worn down over time in 1v1 situations... Wouldn't like to see that personally. Not yet, maybe the Elite Specialization after we got our Bruiser/Duellist mojo back.

Deadeye is a spiker. In GW1, a spiker is the one that deals the most damage after the teams loaded the target with debilitating effects. The way Deadeye is built and the way Exposed Weakness is retweaked, there is no doubt that Deadeye is a spiker. A good team composition with good communication can pull off a really good spike.True, but again why do it as a Deadeye who has to wait for their team, if you could also roll a Holo, Herald, Spellbreaker, Guard, Reaper and/or Scourge..? They can maintain constant pressure and spike damage all while having better sustain and group-utility than a DE does.The reason it's contradicting, is because I can see it form both sides and make a fair approach to both sides... Despite me giving arguments and counter arguments to myself to improve discussion opportunities, I come to the conclusion that DE is simply not better for any role in sPvP than a Core Thief, Daredevil, or many of the other professions. They can't keep up with mobility, they can't keep up with node-pressure, they can't keep up in any department.Stealth (de)capping will result in stale sPvP gameplay and wouldn't change the fact that there's currently no options in sPvP available to make it work.They'd really have to gimp the game to actually get it to work, so instead of ruining things again/further, I'd rather have them not do it at all. I'd rather put my hopes and faith in a potential new Bruiser/Duelist type of Elite Spec...

Now if we'd have access to "Stealth" skills, utilities and traits while 'revealed', now that could actually be interesting. a semi- or faux Stealth mechanic that comes into play while revealed would be far more fair and still keeps things a little interesting and potentially open up doors for something like a DE Bruiser/Duelist.But considering they butchered Ricochet for the purity of purpose, I highly doubt they'd make such changes for DE or Thief, just from a thematic perspective.

[Tails.9372]

@"MUDse.7623" said:the only difference in efficency you can build for with skin choice is projectile animation in wich case the best rifle is Pop Gun. thats for me the only thing keeping me from building this legendary. if we get an option to allways see standard visuals for projectiles, i would build the weapon..I don't think that would help you very much as the baseline for deadye is different from what it is for other classes. TBH I think footsteps, item related auras and projectile animations should have their own cosmetic subcategory.

[bq pd.2148]

@Tails.9372 said:

@"MUDse.7623" said:the only difference in efficency you can build for with skin choice is projectile animation in wich case the best rifle is

Pop Gun

. thats for me the only thing keeping me from building this legendary. if we get an option to allways see standard visuals for projectiles, i would build the weapon..I don't think that would help you very much as the baseline for deadye is different from what it is for other classes. TBH I think footsteps, item related auras and projectile animations should have their own cosmetic subcategory.

thing is you can remove nearly all of it by selecting standard models and mute item specific sound.but altho the standard model will hold a standard weapon skin, it will shoot the modified projectile visuals. each deadeye rifle shot can have 4 different projectile visuals with no option to make it clear, thats not really good.

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

@Vornollo.5182 said:

@"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:You have a lot of contradicting points here.First, how is the Thief take crap ton of damage in stealth if the spec for SA which has a lot of damage mitigation traits?Second, if stealth is not a good defense, why would stealth capping not a good idea? The only reason stealth capping wouldn't be a good idea is if stealth is actually a really good form of defense.

Because in sPvP, you don't have the gear options to really make this work. It limits you in such a way that either you'll have to sacrifice your sustain, or your damage. If you sacrifice your sustain, even SA's defensive modifiers just won't save you (I have tried this, just to see how far it could be pushed). A Holo will still be able to "smack the air" and CC -> kill you without even needing to see you, DH's still get a fair bit of play in sPvP and they can do pretty much the same, a Scourge (

many scourge players for some reason still decide to go for sidenodes at the weirdest of times

) will bomb the hell out of a point if they know you're there (the node not turning into their favor is a pretty large indicator for you being there with them), same for current Reaper builds for that matter.Showing yourself once to a Mirage, Herald, Core guard and the likes, you'll get blown up or forced off-node regardless of SA, because SA's defensive modifiers are largely useless without it's Stealth.If you build for some damage, you won't have the sustain to even hold out for a little bit, even with Menders Amulet, you just can't keep up right now. So there'd need to be pretty big changes beyond allowing stealth (de)capping.

I never said relying solely on stealth for defense. I said, the Thief "can last longer on the node by alternating between stealth and evasion". The only reason that the Thief is denied the stealth defense is due to the fact that the Thief cannot decap while in it. Thus the Thief has to rely on evasion alone.

Now assuming Stealth (de)capping were a thing... If you'd decide to go as tanky as possible, you could probably opt to just constantly sit in stealth just on the sides of a node and keep it contested until you bore your enemy to death by simply doing nothing at all... But kitten me, that'd be even more boring than the post-HoT bunker meta... No, really bad idea. How does that not seem like an obvious bad idea?

This contradicts your own statement about the Thief getting blown up by certain professions. Besides, what kind of build built around tanky perma-stealth in PvP? That's such an exaggeration and a very bad example that's not even worth talking about in a serious discussion.

If stealth capping is a thing, Deadeye D/P will dominate the node since they can utilize both stealth and evasion for defense. They won't even worry about losing the node whenever they try to use stealth attack while fighting on the node. This extends to both Core and Daredevil builds.

This is the point: to be able to use both defense mechanisms without punishment. It always boggles my mind why the Thief is being punished for using stealth on the node when stealth is their primary defense mechanic.

If Stealth (de)capping were a thing and you'd build for damage, then you'd lack the sustain to outlast against the current meta regardless of the defensive modifiers.

Not true. See my point above about stealth and evasion.

The problem is, by not being able to cap the node while stealth removes stealth as an option for the Thief's defense. In order to prevent a decap while fighting in the node, the Thief is reduced to rely on evasion as the only form of defense - this is why the Thief is "squishy". Once endurance is depleted, the Thief is forced out of the node. If the Thief can utilize their primary defense, which is stealth, they can last longer on the node by alternating between stealth and evasion. Also, you are downplaying the effectiveness of dropping target lock.

By going invisible, the Thief has practically reduced the opponent's options by preventing them from using targetted skills. Yes, cleave and AoE can still deal damage, but the fact that they cannot see the Thief prevents them from hitting the Thief dead center. All these are advantages in combat.

I don't know about you, but I got no issues following enemy stealthed thieves, once I've seen them once in a fight. If they'd constantly sit in stealth and do nothing else... Well, I'll just go outnumber somewhere else, have fun afk-ing...

Again the contradiction. If stealthed Thieves are easy to find, why aren't they allowed to decap while in stealth?And if they constantly sit in stealth and afk-ing and you have no issue following them, wouldn't that be an easy 5 points for you? Why leave them alone?

You see, the fact that you leave them afk-ing and outnumber somewhere else proves that stealth is a very effective defense mechanism. You cannot target what you cannot see. That alone is a form of damage mitigation. You don't want to admit it, but your statements betrays you.

Seriously? It's hard to tell that you're being serious using "perma-stealth" as an example. This statement contradicts your other statement, "you will just die regardless of being stealthed or not". So which is it? Stealth too good that you can perma-stealth decap or it's the worst that "you will just die regardless of being stealthed or not"?

Leading on from your previous point... Once a thief is seen, it's pretty easy to keep track of them even when they stealth again. Playing thief for several years, you can just predict the movement of 9/10 thieves that are left in this game, especially in the rather confined spaces of the Conquest maps.What you could choose to do to prevent that (because there's plenty more players able to do that...) is to constantly sit in stealth. If you don't leave stealth at any point, I don't know where you are (well, somewhere on the node ofcourse), and I'll have a pretty kitten hard time finding where you are or where you're going. So yeah... Litteral Perma-Stealth is the only way to make that work against better players. Bad players would just whine about the boring stale gameplay . That's a trend we've seen with faceroll builds, "bunker" metas, "condi" metas, even now with "one shot" meta... Considering the history Stealth had with rant-topics... a "stealth" meta... Kitten me, I love me some salt, but that's just insane.

Why build for perma-stealth and focus on decap worth 1 point per 2s when you can use stealth to position for a 5 points kill? Weren't you the one who claims that you have "no issues following enemy stealthed thieves"?

Besides, there are so many anti-stealth nowadays that stealth capping shouldn't be an issue.

Deadeye is a spiker. In GW1, a spiker is the one that deals the most damage after the teams loaded the target with debilitating effects. The way Deadeye is built and the way Exposed Weakness is retweaked, there is no doubt that Deadeye is a spiker. A good team composition with good communication can pull off a really good spike.True, but again why do it as a Deadeye who has to wait for their team, if you could also roll a Holo, Herald, Spellbreaker, Guard, Reaper and/or Scourge..? They can maintain constant pressure and spike damage all while having better sustain and group-utility than a DE does.

Why wait for the team? What kind of question is that considering that sPvP is 5v5 team game mode?

None of the professions you listed are spiker. None of them can deal as much damage as Malicious Backstab with 5 point Malice on a target loaded with conditions.

The reason it's contradicting, is because I can see it form both sides and make a fair approach to both sides... Despite me giving arguments and counter arguments to myself to improve discussion opportunities, I come to the conclusion that DE is simply not better for any role in sPvP than a Core Thief, Daredevil, or many of the other professions. They can't keep up with mobility, they can't keep up with node-pressure, they can't keep up in any department.

First, Deadeye is not about mobility, thus it is not for decap.Seconds, Deadeye D/P can apply a lot of node pressure due to high damage.

The non-existence Stealth capping is what's preventing Deadeye from using its full potential. Plus the fact that the decap and +1 role is forced upon the Thief by the limited options on builds.

Stealth (de)capping will result in stale sPvP gameplay and wouldn't change the fact that there's currently no options in sPvP available to make it work.They'd really have to kitten the game to actually get it to work, so instead of ruining things again/further, I'd rather have them not do it at all. I'd rather put my hopes and faith in a potential new Bruiser/Duelist type of Elite Spec...

If they allowed stealth capping, many builds will see play. Whether they are any good, we'll just have to see. But it opens a lot of possibilities since using stealth on the node will no longer be a punishment.

Now if we'd have access to "Stealth" skills, utilities and traits while 'revealed', now that could actually be interesting. a semi- or faux Stealth mechanic that comes into play while revealed would be far more fair and still keeps things a little interesting and potentially open up doors for something like a DE Bruiser/Duelist.

That wouldn't be necessary. Just allow stealth capping. Anyone who played Thief knows how and when to use stealth for maximum effect.

But considering they butchered Ricochet for the purity of purpose, I highly doubt they'd make such changes for DE or Thief, just from a thematic perspective.

I just want stealth capping a thing, then they can tweak the game from that point on. I mean they can even limit the stealth capping to Thief only, that way they don't have to balance stealth on other professions.

For instance, Resilience of Shadows: Allows the Thief to capture a node while in stealth.

[NoNameNoob.9758]

Okay bothDeadeye pveDaredevil pvp

[dDuff.3860]

@Vornollo.5182 said:

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

@Vornollo.5182 said:

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

@Vornollo.5182 said:

The Thief is easily forced off the node only because they are denied one of their key defenses: stealth.

Sorry, missed this quotation earlier.But no, no that's just blatantly false... Sure, some people think that invisibility equals invincibility, but every Thief player knows that's just not true. We still take a crap ton of damage, even if you go into Shadow Arts to run with 'Cloaked in Shadow' (

cannot be critically hit while in Stealth

).Other professions, especially the ones used as side-node bruisers, not to even start on the teamfighters, got so much AoE and node-wide pressure, that you will just die regardless of being stealthed or not.Thief is just too squishy for that sort of thing, nothing we currently got access to changes that. If you'd want to improve our on-node sustain (and pressure!) you'd need to powercreep the living hell out of Core Thief features to the point where the same 'Cloaked in Shadow' does in fact grant Invincibility the moment you're Stealthed. Which most definitely would not be healthy for the game, plus they'd still need to make Stealthed Node-contesting a thing, which I still really don't think is a good idea either.

You have a lot of contradicting points here.First, how is the Thief take crap ton of damage in stealth if the spec for SA which has a lot of damage mitigation traits?Second, if stealth is not a good defense, why would stealth capping not a good idea? The only reason stealth capping wouldn't be a good idea is if stealth is actually a really good form of defense.

Because in sPvP, you don't have the gear options to really make this work. It limits you in such a way that either you'll have to sacrifice your sustain, or your damage. If you sacrifice your sustain, even SA's defensive modifiers just won't save you (I have tried this, just to see how far it could be pushed). A Holo will still be able to "smack the air" and CC -> kill you without even needing to see you, DH's still get a fair bit of play in sPvP and they can do pretty much the same, a Scourge (

many scourge players for some reason still decide to go for sidenodes at the weirdest of times

) will bomb the hell out of a point if they know you're there (the node not turning into their favor is a pretty large indicator for you being there with them), same for current Reaper builds for that matter.Showing yourself once to a Mirage, Herald, Core guard and the likes, you'll get blown up or forced off-node regardless of SA, because SA's defensive modifiers are largely useless without it's Stealth.If you build for some damage, you won't have the sustain to even hold out for a little bit, even with Menders Amulet, you just can't keep up right now. So there'd need to be pretty big changes beyond allowing stealth (de)capping.

Now assuming Stealth (de)capping were a thing... If you'd decide to go as tanky as possible, you could probably opt to just

constantly

sit in stealth just on the sides of a node and keep it contested until you bore your enemy to death by simply doing nothing at all... But kitten me, that'd be even more boring than the post-HoT bunker meta... No, really bad idea. How does that not seem like an obvious bad idea?If Stealth (de)capping were a thing and you'd build for damage, then you'd lack the sustain to outlast against the current meta regardless of the defensive modifiers.

The problem is, by not being able to cap the node while stealth removes stealth as an option for the Thief's defense. In order to prevent a decap while fighting in the node, the Thief is reduced to rely on evasion as the only form of defense - this is why the Thief is "squishy". Once endurance is depleted, the Thief is forced out of the node. If the Thief can utilize their primary defense, which is stealth, they can last longer on the node by alternating between stealth and evasion. Also, you are downplaying the effectiveness of dropping target lock.

By going invisible, the Thief has practically reduced the opponent's options by preventing them from using targetted skills. Yes, cleave and AoE can still deal damage, but the fact that they cannot see the Thief prevents them from hitting the Thief dead center. All these are advantages in combat.

I don't know about you, but I got no issues following enemy stealthed thieves, once I've seen them once in a fight. If they'd constantly sit in stealth and do nothing else... Well, I'll just go outnumber somewhere else, have fun afk-ing...

Maybe change Instant Reflexes to have a no ICD while we're at it...

...

Like seriously..? How would you think that Stealth-capture would work in today's game? Going to try and perma-stealth

just

on the edges of AoE fields until your opponent gets so bored of facerolling that they just leave you there?

Seriously? It's hard to tell that you're being serious using "perma-stealth" as an example. This statement contradicts your other statement, "you will just die regardless of being stealthed or not". So which is it? Stealth too good that you can perma-stealth decap or it's the worst that "you will just die regardless of being stealthed or not"?

Leading on from your previous point... Once a thief is seen, it's pretty easy to keep track of them even when they stealth again. Playing thief for several years, you can just predict the movement of 9/10 thieves that are left in this game, especially in the rather confined spaces of the Conquest maps.What you could choose to do to prevent that (because there's plenty more players able to do that...) is to constantly sit in stealth. If you don't leave stealth at any point, I don't know where you are (well, somewhere on the node ofcourse), and I'll have a pretty kitten hard time finding where you are or where you're going. So yeah... Litteral Perma-Stealth is the only way to make that work against better players. Bad players would just whine about the boring stale gameplay . That's a trend we've seen with faceroll builds, "bunker" metas, "condi" metas, even now with "one shot" meta... Considering the history Stealth had with rant-topics... a "stealth" meta... Kitten me, I love me some salt, but that's just insane.

Nah, only chance we got without Anet making stupid decisions for our existing (elite) specializations, is to get an Elite Specialization that actually revolves around the Bruiser/Duellist playstyle, maybe a support style, but support-types generally just get worn down over time in 1v1 situations... Wouldn't like to see that personally. Not yet, maybe the Elite Specialization after we got our Bruiser/Duellist mojo back.

Deadeye is a spiker. In GW1, a spiker is the one that deals the most damage after the teams loaded the target with debilitating effects. The way Deadeye is built and the way Exposed Weakness is retweaked, there is no doubt that Deadeye is a spiker. A good team composition with good communication can pull off a really good spike.True, but again why do it as a Deadeye who has to wait for their team, if you could also roll a Holo, Herald, Spellbreaker, Guard, Reaper and/or Scourge..? They can maintain constant pressure and spike damage all while having better sustain and group-utility than a DE does.The reason it's contradicting, is because I can see it form both sides and make a fair approach to both sides... Despite me giving arguments and counter arguments to myself to improve discussion opportunities, I come to the conclusion that DE is simply not better for any role in sPvP than a Core Thief, Daredevil, or many of the other professions. They can't keep up with mobility, they can't keep up with node-pressure, they can't keep up in any department.Stealth (de)capping will result in stale sPvP gameplay and wouldn't change the fact that there's currently no options in sPvP available to make it work.They'd really have to kitten the game to actually get it to work, so instead of ruining things again/further, I'd rather have them not do it at all. I'd rather put my hopes and faith in a potential new Bruiser/Duelist type of Elite Spec...

Now if we'd have access to "Stealth" skills, utilities and traits while 'revealed', now that could actually be interesting. a semi- or faux Stealth mechanic that comes into play while revealed would be far more fair and still keeps things a little interesting and potentially open up doors for something like a DE Bruiser/Duelist.But considering they butchered Ricochet for the purity of purpose, I highly doubt they'd make such changes for DE or Thief, just from a thematic perspective.

Atm deadeye is much better in impacting match outcome compared to core/daredevil thief. The risk is lower (arguably) the reward is better (non-arguably).