What makes a person a nobel?

[Aaron Ansari.1604]

@Ardid.7203 said:So Jenna could simply design Logan as a noble considering all his heroics and helpful ways, and give the poor man a chance.But she prefers not to.So nice.

It's implied a few times, before S3, that doing so would be... politically fraught. When a guy like Caudecus is around, you don't want to give someone honors and power just so you can sleep with him.

Of course, as soon as Caudecus is out of the picture... well. That's not a new discussion around here, but in short, it looks like he didn't have a chance after all.

[Oglaf.1074]

@Ardid.7203 said:So Jenna could simply design Logan as a noble considering all his heroics and helpful ways, and give the poor man a chance.But she prefers not to.So nice.

That would probably be a political scandal regardless as people know they pine for one-another.

Or at least, that’s probably what they fear might happen in any case.

[Rognik.2579]

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@perilisk.1874 said:

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:Though This apparently got retconned in Season 3 to "she never loved him and everyone but Logan knew this". Though at the end of Season 3, Logan accepts (the retcon) that Jennah doesn't care about him.

I thought that was a strategic misdirection on her part... she needed him to move on and get a life, so he could become the sort of person who could be accepted as her... consort, I guess?

If it weren't for all the thousands of other dialogue effectively saying "Jennah never liked him, Logan is so pathetic for not realizing it" from Estrella, the Ladies in Waiting, etc. etc., that might sound plausible. But tbh, I think it was more that they forgot they had already established her feelings and decided to change directions.Taking Estrelle as a credible source, considering we had outed her as one of Caudecus's agents in Season 2 and a White Mantle in Season 3, is hardly wise. Similarly, the Ladies in Waiting are gossipers, who would spread any rumour passed around that lead to drama. After all, Logan's feelings for Jennah were a secret to no one, even the most emotionally blind person. Even Gorrik would be able to tell!

As for making Logan a noble herself, Jennah already has a tenuous hold on the throne. She took power at a young age, which is why the ministry was even formed. Her reign has been tenuous from Day 1, mainly because of the pressure Caudecus and his allies put on her. Even with him dead and the White Mantle routed, other ministers are looking to seize the power from her.

Her outright rejection of Logan at the end of the first instance of S3E4? I read that as her pushing him away so he can stop pining and start earning his place at her side. She hasn't changed her feelings, just how she expresses them, especially after 5 years of the poor man doing little besides almost abandoning Destiny's Edge yet again.

[Aaron Ansari.1604]

@"Rognik.2579" said:

Her outright rejection of Logan at the end of the first instance of S3E4? I read that as her pushing him away so he can stop pining and start earning his place at her side. She hasn't changed her feelings, just how she expresses them, especially after 5 years of the poor man doing little besides almost abandoning Destiny's Edge yet again.

That line, actually, I read as honest concern. Nothing romance-crushing there, especially given how quick she is to lose her temper with Estelle after that insult.

It's the next instance that I was talking about- in particular, Logan's "Well, my eyes were opened to...my role here," and Jennah's "I hear the whispers, and I see with my own eyes. Logan is...a loyal servant, and a friend. I think he's coming to terms with that. At last."

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@"Rognik.2579" said:Taking Estrelle as a credible source, considering we had outed her as one of Caudecus's agents in Season 2 and a White Mantle in Season 3, is hardly wise. Similarly, the Ladies in Waiting are gossipers, who would spread any rumour passed around that lead to drama. After all, Logan's feelings for Jennah were a secret to no one, even the most emotionally blind person. Even Gorrik would be able to tell!

[...]

Her outright rejection of Logan at the end of the first instance of S3E4? I read that as her pushing him away so he can stop pining and start earning his place at her side. She hasn't changed her feelings, just how she expresses them, especially after 5 years of the poor man doing little besides almost abandoning Destiny's Edge yet again.

It's not Estrelle herself that I view as credible, but the reaction to Estrelle's line from the unnamed Minister, and her reaction to that reaction which suggests that, well, everyone "knows" Jennah holds no feelings for Logan but no one ever speaks of it to avoid spiting Jennah or Logan.

And while the Ladies in Waiting certainly come off as gossipers, they're also around Jennah enough to see whether or not she had feelings for him, and they make it fairly clear she doesn't. As you say, they're gossipers. If there was even a hint of her feelings for Logan, they would spread it like wildfire about how the "refined and noble queen" loves a commoner, even if he did manage to become a captain.

And as Aaron said, it isn't her rejection at the end of the first instance, but her dialogue in the fourth story step. If all she was doing was a "pushing him away so he can stop pining and start earning his place" there was no need to end with "I think he's coming to terms with that. At last."

And Logan hasn't been abandoning Destiny's Edge for the past 5 years... Though they all did go their separate ways after Zhaitan, due to the narrative misdirection of Season 1, they immediately rejoined with the Pact once preparations were fuller underway. Their offices and titles pretty much prevented half of Destiny's Edge from just adventuring like the good ol' days - mainly Logans and Rytlock's offices.

[kasoki.5180]

Now that you mention this whole topic, is there actually any in-game peace of information that would suggest Queen had feelings for Logan? I cant remember ever hearing any and I have played all human storylines

[Aaron Ansari.1604]

@"kasoki.5180" said:Now that you mention this whole topic, is there actually any in-game peace of information that would suggest Queen had feelings for Logan? I cant remember ever hearing any and I have played all human storylines

Konig quoted it earlier in the thread. End of the third chapter of the human arc, unless you pick OoW: "He is like an angel sent from Dwayna to be at my side. If things were different, or if Kryta were at peace. then perhaps..." and " I have enough servants—I want a partner."

[Kovac.4372]

There's an actual Tyrian royal family tree with pretty much everyone relevant on it

[Aaron Ansari.1604]

Not... exactly. That tree's something the fans have put together from every royal we've heard about, but even then? Many, many gaps. It hits everyone relevant to the story, maybe, but not everyone relevant to the nobility within the setting. (For example, we don't even know how many kids Doric himself had, and he's as important as it gets.) Each spot where the line doesn't actually touch the box means there's probably people missing, possibly many people. 1000 years times three separate branches does that.

[Artyport.2084]

@"Kovac.4372" said:There's an actual Tyrian royal family tree with pretty much everyone relevant on it

Yass this was what i was looking fur

[MisterCheshire.4029]

Yes. In any society, nobles are typically individuals of influence. Genetics and relations to the queen are the highest aspects, as nobles are almost elusively noted by their bloodlines, with the queen's bloodline the most important. However money and positions of power also have some importance. Depending on the society, a person can become noble if they accrue enough wealth (American Society), while other societies require bloodlines (French Society/English Society, etc). Especially in magic settings bloodlines are of utmost importance.

More or less, look up history on nobles and what allow them to become nobles. 90% of the time, it's because the monarch is viewed as a holy being, or because their family did something for the monarch.

[Ardid.7203]

Most of the time, its because their families were aligned with the winner of the last war...

[kasoki.5180]

@Artyport.2084 said:

@"Kovac.4372" said:

There's an actual Tyrian royal family tree with pretty much everyone relevant on it

Yass this was what i was looking fur

That tree is royal families. Nobility and royalty are not necessarily a same thing. All royals are nobles, but not all nobles are royals

[Kovac.4372]

@kasoki.5180 said:

@Artyport.2084 said:

@"Kovac.4372" said:

There's an actual Tyrian royal family tree with pretty much everyone relevant on it

Yass this was what i was looking fur

That tree is royal families. Nobility and royalty are not necessarily a same thing. All royals are nobles, but not all nobles are royals

It's the best we got tho ... GW2 introduced a bunch of nobles (like all those ministers) with no previous connections with GW1 or characters there.

Also, Kryta in GW2 and Kryta in GW1 are very different in size and population density as well as societal structure. Where Ascalon already had established nobility in GW1 (now lost and attached to the Krytan royal family), Kryta back then was basically a tribal society with the ruling class being the White Mantle.

It wasn't until Divinity's Reach grew considerably that more priminent families could have gotten the opportunity to become aristocrats.

[Aaron Ansari.1604]

@Kovac.4372 said:

@kasoki.5180 said:

@Artyport.2084 said:

@Kovac.4372 said:

There's an actual Tyrian royal family tree with pretty much everyone relevant on it

Yass this was what i was looking fur

That tree is royal families. Nobility and royalty are not necessarily a same thing. All royals are nobles, but not all nobles are royals

It's the best we got tho ... GW2 introduced a bunch of nobles (like all those ministers) with no previous connections with GW1 or characters there.

Also, Kryta in GW2 and Kryta in GW1 are very different in size and population density as well as societal structure. Where Ascalon already had established nobility in GW1 (now lost and attached to the Krytan royal family), Kryta back then was basically a tribal society with the ruling class being the White Mantle.

It wasn't until Divinity's Reach grew considerably that more priminent families could have gotten the opportunity to become aristocrats.

Tribal? No. We know that Kryta had a well-established nobility well before GW1. What seems to have happened there is that the nobles lost their standing to the war or the White Mantle takeover, or else they integrated into the Mantle. It also appears that they regained their place sometime after the monarchy was restored. There was an old TowerTalk interview- taken down, unfortunately, but the transcript survives here- that mentioned that the growth of Divinity's Reach has actually marked a decline in the fortunes of the noble class. With so many members of high society crammed into one place, it's rarer to find one who actually owns and runs their own land these days.

[Kovac.4372]

@Aaron Ansari.1604 said:Tribal? No.

It takes one trip to Lions Arch in GW1 to see what I mean. Just take a look at the NPCs there.

[Aaron Ansari.1604]

@Kovac.4372 said:

@Aaron Ansari.1604 said:Tribal? No.

It takes one trip to Lions Arch in GW1 to see what I mean. Just take a look at the NPCs there.

Because of how they dress and the fact that they have tattoos? There are a good number of non-tribal societies with a tradition of tattooing, including our own; ditto for clothing that leaves a lot of skin uncovered, particularly in warmer humid regions. As for the quality of the clothes:

The Guild Wars Manuscripts said:

Travelers to Kryta will find a stark contrast between the fortified, polished-stone buildings of the White Mantle and the thatch-roofed huts of the regular citizens. There is a surprising amount of wealth here, but it is kept in the hands of those who adhere to the doctrines of the Mantle, and this is reflected in the architecture of the region.

That is just as true of the dress as the architecture. The Mantle models do not lack for extravagance, although good taste may be another matter. Similarly, the Shining Blade, removed from the need of tithing their wealth to the Mantle, don't seem to have had any difficulty creating quality gear for themselves.