buff necro is back!

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@Obtena.7952 said:All true, so when you make comments that indicate other classes do it better, what are you saying about the absolute viability of a Scourge Support build? The answer is nothing, because comparisons to other classes are relative.

If I got 3 classes an one does 100%, the next 99% and the last 98%, is the last 2 classes not viable? That makes no sense. That's what you do when you make relative comparisons between classes to conclude effectiveness. Even worse, it's not even that simple; classes are so different in how they play, tools, etc ... that relative comparisons for any individual element between them are just nonsense. If a group takes a Scourge Support and that works for them, that's all that matters.

ok whatever lol, if youre gonna bring absolutes into this then ill just say a few more things. I think support scourge is an incredibly bad idea, but if people wanna do it then at the very least they should be aware that there are a lot better builds out there that can contribute a whole lot more (and not take triple the time to complete the run). the 3 classes thing is incredibly disingenuous. if support chrono is 100%, then support necro is maybe 25% lol. sometimes people use comparisons to let other people know that you don't have to be a masochist to play this game, it can be both easier on yourself, your team, and even enjoyable to play other builds. in case you missed the entire point I was trying to make, I was challenging the very premise of support scourge working for anyone. but hey if it does it does and that's fine too, like I already said.

[Nimon.7840]

@Lahmia.2193 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:support necro is non existent and anyone who believes otherwise is delusional.

I mean I'd define WvW blood scourge as support and that's meta.

Err...It's like noone playing bloodmagic anymore in wvw.At least no transfusion, and people that do, get flamed to hell xD

Spite/cursesCurses/soulreapingSpite/soulreaping are the go to choices right now

[Dace.8173]

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:All true, so when you make comments that indicate other classes do it better, what are you saying about the

absolute

viability of a Scourge Support build? The answer is nothing, because comparisons to other classes are

relative

.

If I got 3 classes an one does 100%, the next 99% and the last 98%, is the last 2 classes not viable? That makes no sense. That's what you do when you make relative comparisons between classes to conclude effectiveness. Even worse, it's not even that simple; classes are so different in how they play, tools, etc ... that relative comparisons for any individual element between them are just nonsense. If a group takes a Scourge Support and that works for them, that's all that matters.

ok whatever lol, if youre gonna bring absolutes into this then ill just say a few more things. I think support scourge is an incredibly bad idea, but if people wanna do it then at the very least they should be aware that there are a lot better builds out there that can contribute a whole lot more (and not take triple the time to complete the run). the 3 classes thing is incredibly disingenuous. if support chrono is 100%, then support necro is maybe 25% lol. sometimes people use comparisons to let other people know that you don't have to be a masochist to play this game, it can be both easier on yourself, your team, and even enjoyable to play other builds. in case you missed the

entire

point I was trying to make, I was challenging the very premise of support scourge working for anyone. but hey if it does it does and that's fine too, like I already said.

Except it does work for some people. Why would you challenge the premise that support Scourge works for some people when people say that it worked for them? Do you think those folks are lying about their experince with Scourge? You thinking it is a bad idea has no true bearing on whether or not it actually works, and it does. This also isn't an either or position. Just because support Chrono does it better than support Scourge doesn't mean support Scourge doesn't work. One profession doing something better doesn't render another profession from doing it, even if it is less than perfect. If that were the case, if it truly matters that support Chrono is better, therefore, support Scourge, the there pretty much isn't any point in playing anything but maybe two to four Elite specs.

People gain enjoyment in different ways and some people don't need something to be the best in order for them to enjoy playing it. So long as it works some people will enjoy it. Other people enjoy the challenge of making something that is less than perfect work for them. Who are you to dictate to other people what is fun for them? If a person wants to play other builds then they should. If a person should play support Scourge then they should.

There's this very toxic idea that the only things that should be played are the things that are the best of the best and those positions narrow the field of viable play options when it doesn't really need to happen. More people would be happy with Necromancer, as a whole, if there wasn't a segment of the Necromancer community trying to dictate to them what they should be playing and what they should find fun.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@Dace.8173 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:All true, so when you make comments that indicate other classes do it better, what are you saying about the

absolute

viability of a Scourge Support build? The answer is nothing, because comparisons to other classes are

relative

.

If I got 3 classes an one does 100%, the next 99% and the last 98%, is the last 2 classes not viable? That makes no sense. That's what you do when you make relative comparisons between classes to conclude effectiveness. Even worse, it's not even that simple; classes are so different in how they play, tools, etc ... that relative comparisons for any individual element between them are just nonsense. If a group takes a Scourge Support and that works for them, that's all that matters.

ok whatever lol, if youre gonna bring absolutes into this then ill just say a few more things. I think support scourge is an incredibly bad idea, but if people wanna do it then at the very least they should be aware that there are a lot better builds out there that can contribute a whole lot more (and not take triple the time to complete the run). the 3 classes thing is incredibly disingenuous. if support chrono is 100%, then support necro is maybe 25% lol. sometimes people use comparisons to let other people know that you don't have to be a masochist to play this game, it can be both easier on yourself, your team, and even enjoyable to play other builds. in case you missed the

entire

point I was trying to make, I was challenging the very premise of support scourge working for anyone. but hey if it does it does and that's fine too, like I already said.

Except it does work for some people. Why would you challenge the premise that support Scourge works for some people when people say that it worked for them? Do you think those folks are lying about their experince with Scourge? You thinking it is a bad idea has no true bearing on whether or not it actually works, and it does. This also isn't an either or position. Just because support Chrono does it better than support Scourge doesn't mean support Scourge doesn't work. One profession doing something better doesn't render another profession from doing it, even if it is less than perfect. If that were the case, if it truly matters that support Chrono is better, therefore, support Scourge, the there pretty much isn't any point in playing anything but maybe two to four Elite specs.

People gain enjoyment in different ways and some people don't need something to be the best in order for them to enjoy playing it. So long as it works some people will enjoy it. Other people enjoy the challenge of making something that is less than perfect work for them. Who are you to dictate to other people what is fun for them? If a person wants to play other builds then they should. If a person should play support Scourge then they should.

There's this very toxic idea that the only things that should be played are the things that are the best of the best and those positions narrow the field of viable play options when it doesn't really need to happen. More people would be happy with Necromancer, as a whole, if there wasn't a segment of the Necromancer community trying to dictate to them what they should be playing and what they should find fun.I understand your pov and youre right, but judging by your post you didn't really read mine so theres no point responding to yours. ill just sign off here im probably getting belligerent for no good reason.

[Obtena.7952]

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:All true, so when you make comments that indicate other classes do it better, what are you saying about the

absolute

viability of a Scourge Support build? The answer is nothing, because comparisons to other classes are

relative

.

If I got 3 classes an one does 100%, the next 99% and the last 98%, is the last 2 classes not viable? That makes no sense. That's what you do when you make relative comparisons between classes to conclude effectiveness. Even worse, it's not even that simple; classes are so different in how they play, tools, etc ... that relative comparisons for any individual element between them are just nonsense. If a group takes a Scourge Support and that works for them, that's all that matters.

ok whatever lol, if youre gonna bring absolutes into this then ill just say a few more things. I think support scourge is an incredibly bad idea, but if people wanna do it then at the very least they should be aware that there are a lot better builds out there that can contribute a whole lot more (and not take triple the time to complete the run). the 3 classes thing is incredibly disingenuous. if support chrono is 100%, then support necro is maybe 25% lol. sometimes people use comparisons to let other people know that you don't have to be a masochist to play this game, it can be both easier on yourself, your team, and even enjoyable to play other builds. in case you missed the

entire

point I was trying to make, I was challenging the very premise of support scourge working for anyone. but hey if it does it does and that's fine too, like I already said.

The example wasn't meant to be disingenuous, it was meant to illustrate the difference between absolute and relative comparisons and why making a relative comparison to make conclusions about the absolute effectiveness of anything doesn't make sense. I did it explicitely because I see LOTS of faulty reason like that on these forums.

The fact is that we don't have a way to measure how effective one classes' support is to another. The best we can do is allow players to choose what builds they want and eventually, what is 'bad' is filtered out. I get the point that you were making and the fact is that a support scourge works for LOTS of people. Maybe not the people you play with; maybe you are pro and your raid teams are too and don't need it. I know for a fact that the new people we play with and train raids with appreciate it incredibly. That doesn't make it any less effective as a build. Scourge support is definitely more EXCLUSIVE, but no one should question it's effectiveness.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:All true, so when you make comments that indicate other classes do it better, what are you saying about the

absolute

viability of a Scourge Support build? The answer is nothing, because comparisons to other classes are

relative

.

If I got 3 classes an one does 100%, the next 99% and the last 98%, is the last 2 classes not viable? That makes no sense. That's what you do when you make relative comparisons between classes to conclude effectiveness. Even worse, it's not even that simple; classes are so different in how they play, tools, etc ... that relative comparisons for any individual element between them are just nonsense. If a group takes a Scourge Support and that works for them, that's all that matters.

ok whatever lol, if youre gonna bring absolutes into this then ill just say a few more things. I think support scourge is an incredibly bad idea, but if people wanna do it then at the very least they should be aware that there are a lot better builds out there that can contribute a whole lot more (and not take triple the time to complete the run). the 3 classes thing is incredibly disingenuous. if support chrono is 100%, then support necro is maybe 25% lol. sometimes people use comparisons to let other people know that you don't have to be a masochist to play this game, it can be both easier on yourself, your team, and even enjoyable to play other builds. in case you missed the

entire

point I was trying to make, I was challenging the very premise of support scourge working for anyone. but hey if it does it does and that's fine too, like I already said.

The example wasn't meant to be disingenuous, it was meant to illustrate the difference between absolute and relative comparisons and why making a relative comparison to make conclusions about the absolute effectiveness of anything doesn't make sense. I did it explicitely because I see LOTS of faulty reason like that on these forums.

The fact is that we don't have a way to measure how effective one classes' support is to another. The best we can do is allow players to choose what builds they want and eventually, what is 'bad' is filtered out. I get the point that you were making and the fact is that a support scourge works for LOTS of people. Maybe not the people you play with; maybe you are pro and your raid teams are too and don't need it. I know for a fact that the new people we play with and train raids with appreciate it incredibly. That doesn't make it any less effective as a build. Scourge support is definitely more EXCLUSIVE, but no one should question it's effectiveness.

my response to you is basically the same as my response to dace."The fact is that we don't have a way to measure how effective one classes' support is to another"false"but no one should question it's effectiveness. "uhh k

[Obtena.7952]

Well, I'm willing to be convinced I'm wrong. If there is a way to measure the relative effectiveness of the support the classes give, then go ahead and tell us what it is. I've never seen such a thing and I'm interested if someone has built a tool to do something like that. If you say it's false, there you're telling me there is a tool out there that measures support performance.

[santso.9201]

Is My full Magi with Mercy runes wrong?

[Nimon.7840]

@santso.9201 said:Is My full Magi with Mercy runes wrong?

It's good to carry noobs.Not good if you are running in good groups

Especially after the abrasive grit nerf.

We used support scourge before teapot put his video on.But now the condiremoves got gutted.

Better run heal ele instead.