Armor of Earth QoL change

[apharma.3741]

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@steki.1478 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@"Sigmoid.7082" said:It would be a greater liability against corruption as a pulsing boon.all you gotta do is break stun / condi clear once and dodge, or lightning flash / mist form. pulsing corrupts are very unlikely to get your stab first or second pulse if you have many boons.

Using mistform after using armour of earth should warrant an uninstall from anyone that does not consider it a bad move and that they messed up.

Sigmoid is entirely correct and the opportunity cost of using multiple corrupts to keep you chain CC'd is well worth it. Bear in mind no necro is likely to be alone so that other guy has a free pass to wail on you. Meanwhile you just wasted 2 cool downs when you should have only used 1.

I'd rather be corrupted once than risk being corrupted multiple times, this is one of the reasons scourge was so strong on launch, it wasn't just that it had a lot of conditions it's that boon spam was so high and it's AoE boon corrupts (so stack multiple necros and stagger, constant rings of corrupts) so high that it further compounded the issue.

Warr has pulsing stab. How many times have you seen one being perma feared? Weaver uses stab on stances which are used quite frequently for a lot of stab uptime, what about that? When was the last time you've seen weaver with armor of earth?

Besides, only necro has corrupts, every class has hard CC and you can apply boons so your pulsing stab doesn't get corrupted each pulse.

Ele cant apply more than 2-3 boons per second to secure that one-time stab doesn't get insta corrupted.

You do realise the only pulsing stab warrior has outside of rampage is balanced stance which warriors don't use at all because having longer duration single application stab is better than pulsing? That's without mentioning there's a world of difference between how a warrior fights a necro and how ele does. War tends to stunlock opponents and what do you know, necro doesn't have enough stunbreaks let alone stab to deal with it so the warrior often doesn't get the stab corrupted. If it does, cleanse or resistance and ignore.

Wait what? Have you ever actually played ele?

Here's ele fighting a boon removal mesmer and the ele is literally face tanking shatters so constantly having boons removed. Notice how quickly he gets back up to 3-5 boons? With no removal ele is usually sitting at might, swiftness, regen, protection and vigor as permanent boons and you're likely to have some fury/retal mixed in from elemental contingency assuming you don't believe in auto procs saving your life when you messed up. Sure they "can't apply more than 2-3 boons per second" but name any class that can consistently do that? I know many, including ele can burst out a load of boons but most classes cannot constantly churn out boons on the same level as ele and guardian.

This entire thread is "ele mains" complaining their class is bottom tier in PvP and whining for buffs instead of properly addressing the power creep as they're too short sighted to see how bad the state of the game is now and how much worse it will get if you keep buffing ele instead of nerfing everything down several notches.

Once you nerf everything down...would you address the clankiness of weaver like the unnecessary double attunement CD? After the several nerfs received now you don't have even the wvw staff meme build to support any claim of ele viability with weaver a supposed dmg focused elite, the whole elite is close to be a joke on par with renegade.

Do you even know the real facts? The elementalist has received nothing but build destroying nerfs since Septmber 2015 while on the other side everybody else except revenant received substantial buffs to their utilities and trait lines.

The last time we saw substantial buffs to traitlines was back in Dec 2013 with the introduction of Stone Heart , Diamond skin and Blinding ashes, also Lightning rod and after that....

nerfs upon nerfs adding to more nerfs with the removal of any usable amulet

but hey...eles are crying too much so....let's make a deal : you bring your list of facts and I bring mine then we see if all the complaints are really unwarranted

And please please please @apharma.3741 it's time for you to realize that nobody asked anet to turn the spellcaster from GW1 into a magic warrior meme so it's not the bloody fault of the playerbase if they try to get by with what they've got, if you want people to stay at melee range...

they need bloody sustain

It is the fault of the playerbase when they know everything is too strong, they know everything needs toning down but they ask for buffs anyway. Pulsing stab has very little counterplay as it is reapplied soon after being stolen/ripped, outside of boon corrupt where it is objectively worse.

Also have you all not realised that if stab pulses all your boon duration would actually give you LESS duration on your stability? 50% boon duration will give you 9s stab currently, if it's pulsing you'd get shorter duration of 2-3s so only get 7-7.5s total of stab with the same amount of duration as it doesn't stack duration. That wouldn't be a QoL change it would be a change many in the playerbase after using would think was a dumb idea.

[Arheundel.6451]

@apharma.3741 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@steki.1478 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@"Sigmoid.7082" said:It would be a greater liability against corruption as a pulsing boon.all you gotta do is break stun / condi clear once and dodge, or lightning flash / mist form. pulsing corrupts are very unlikely to get your stab first or second pulse if you have many boons.

Using mistform after using armour of earth should warrant an uninstall from anyone that does not consider it a bad move and that they messed up.

Sigmoid is entirely correct and the opportunity cost of using multiple corrupts to keep you chain CC'd is well worth it. Bear in mind no necro is likely to be alone so that other guy has a free pass to wail on you. Meanwhile you just wasted 2 cool downs when you should have only used 1.

I'd rather be corrupted once than risk being corrupted multiple times, this is one of the reasons scourge was so strong on launch, it wasn't just that it had a lot of conditions it's that boon spam was so high and it's AoE boon corrupts (so stack multiple necros and stagger, constant rings of corrupts) so high that it further compounded the issue.

Warr has pulsing stab. How many times have you seen one being perma feared? Weaver uses stab on stances which are used quite frequently for a lot of stab uptime, what about that? When was the last time you've seen weaver with armor of earth?

Besides, only necro has corrupts, every class has hard CC and you can apply boons so your pulsing stab doesn't get corrupted each pulse.

Ele cant apply more than 2-3 boons per second to secure that one-time stab doesn't get insta corrupted.

You do realise the only pulsing stab warrior has outside of rampage is balanced stance which warriors don't use at all because having longer duration single application stab is better than pulsing? That's without mentioning there's a world of difference between how a warrior fights a necro and how ele does. War tends to stunlock opponents and what do you know, necro doesn't have enough stunbreaks let alone stab to deal with it so the warrior often doesn't get the stab corrupted. If it does, cleanse or resistance and ignore.

Wait what? Have you ever actually played ele?

Here's ele fighting a boon removal mesmer and the ele is literally face tanking shatters so constantly having boons removed. Notice how quickly he gets back up to 3-5 boons? With no removal ele is usually sitting at might, swiftness, regen, protection and vigor as permanent boons and you're likely to have some fury/retal mixed in from elemental contingency assuming you don't believe in auto procs saving your life when you messed up. Sure they "can't apply more than 2-3 boons per second" but name any class that can consistently do that? I know many, including ele can burst out a load of boons but most classes cannot constantly churn out boons on the same level as ele and guardian.

This entire thread is "ele mains" complaining their class is bottom tier in PvP and whining for buffs instead of properly addressing the power creep as they're too short sighted to see how bad the state of the game is now and how much worse it will get if you keep buffing ele instead of nerfing everything down several notches.

Once you nerf everything down...would you address the clankiness of weaver like the unnecessary double attunement CD? After the several nerfs received now you don't have even the wvw staff meme build to support any claim of ele viability with weaver a supposed dmg focused elite, the whole elite is close to be a joke on par with renegade.

Do you even know the real facts? The elementalist has received nothing but build destroying nerfs since Septmber 2015 while on the other side everybody else except revenant received substantial buffs to their utilities and trait lines.

The last time we saw substantial buffs to traitlines was back in Dec 2013 with the introduction of Stone Heart , Diamond skin and Blinding ashes, also Lightning rod and after that....

nerfs upon nerfs adding to more nerfs with the removal of any usable amulet

but hey...eles are crying too much so....let's make a deal : you bring your list of facts and I bring mine then we see if all the complaints are really unwarranted

And please please please @apharma.3741 it's time for you to realize that nobody asked anet to turn the spellcaster from GW1 into a magic warrior meme so it's not the bloody fault of the playerbase if they try to get by with what they've got, if you want people to stay at melee range...

they need bloody sustain

It is the fault of the playerbase when they know everything is too strong, they know everything needs toning down but they ask for buffs anyway. Pulsing stab has very little counterplay as it is reapplied soon after being stolen/ripped, outside of boon corrupt where it is objectively worse.

Also have you all not realised that if stab pulses all your boon duration would actually give you LESS duration on your stability? 50% boon duration will give you 9s stab currently, if it's pulsing you'd get shorter duration of 2-3s so only get 7-7.5s total of stab with the same amount of duration as it doesn't stack duration. That wouldn't be a QoL change it would be a change many in the playerbase after using would think was a dumb idea.

It doesn't seem Anet nerfing anything on the contrary.....

I get it where you come from but so should you with us, we all know that they screwed up royally with elementalist..they know this themselves ...only they will never admit it in their infinite arrogance, try tried to reinvent the wheel and they got burned badly and justly so, they could have expanded on the GW1 concept in so many way but instead they got sidetracked by their own euphoria.

Nerfing everything will not change much , you forget all the gear/stats changes since HoT launch, all the trait and QoL changes which are now immune to any kind of powercreep reversion.

In the end the GW2 elementalist is a clown fiesta concept that relies on gimmicks to remain competitive and this has been clear since day one but only it got conveniently brushed under the carpet by the community and devs alike. When you must use every single defensive utility/trait just to be playable..you know the whole design is a total fiasco, everything comes down like a domino at a minimal nerf....it's ridiculous

They made this class : the lowest Hp and armor, the most complicated mechanic and a complete lack of inbuilt defensice mechanisms...then they gave it a set of melee weapons and they expect everything to work....it's complete non-sense

You don't need a degree in mechanical engineering to know that a car can't run on square wheels and in the same vein you don't need to be a game designer to know something at melee range needs proper sustain to survive....1+1=2

Yes I know where you come from, we don't want to see a resurgence of the celestial bunker d/d but they did this mess and now who is supposed to clear it? They should clearly go back to the drawing board with ele at this point but they won't do it so their only option is to add even more gimmicks because without any OP trait/skill/gear this class simply doesn't work at all...

[apharma.3741]

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@steki.1478 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@"Sigmoid.7082" said:It would be a greater liability against corruption as a pulsing boon.all you gotta do is break stun / condi clear once and dodge, or lightning flash / mist form. pulsing corrupts are very unlikely to get your stab first or second pulse if you have many boons.

Using mistform after using armour of earth should warrant an uninstall from anyone that does not consider it a bad move and that they messed up.

Sigmoid is entirely correct and the opportunity cost of using multiple corrupts to keep you chain CC'd is well worth it. Bear in mind no necro is likely to be alone so that other guy has a free pass to wail on you. Meanwhile you just wasted 2 cool downs when you should have only used 1.

I'd rather be corrupted once than risk being corrupted multiple times, this is one of the reasons scourge was so strong on launch, it wasn't just that it had a lot of conditions it's that boon spam was so high and it's AoE boon corrupts (so stack multiple necros and stagger, constant rings of corrupts) so high that it further compounded the issue.

Warr has pulsing stab. How many times have you seen one being perma feared? Weaver uses stab on stances which are used quite frequently for a lot of stab uptime, what about that? When was the last time you've seen weaver with armor of earth?

Besides, only necro has corrupts, every class has hard CC and you can apply boons so your pulsing stab doesn't get corrupted each pulse.

Ele cant apply more than 2-3 boons per second to secure that one-time stab doesn't get insta corrupted.

You do realise the only pulsing stab warrior has outside of rampage is balanced stance which warriors don't use at all because having longer duration single application stab is better than pulsing? That's without mentioning there's a world of difference between how a warrior fights a necro and how ele does. War tends to stunlock opponents and what do you know, necro doesn't have enough stunbreaks let alone stab to deal with it so the warrior often doesn't get the stab corrupted. If it does, cleanse or resistance and ignore.

Wait what? Have you ever actually played ele?

Here's ele fighting a boon removal mesmer and the ele is literally face tanking shatters so constantly having boons removed. Notice how quickly he gets back up to 3-5 boons? With no removal ele is usually sitting at might, swiftness, regen, protection and vigor as permanent boons and you're likely to have some fury/retal mixed in from elemental contingency assuming you don't believe in auto procs saving your life when you messed up. Sure they "can't apply more than 2-3 boons per second" but name any class that can consistently do that? I know many, including ele can burst out a load of boons but most classes cannot constantly churn out boons on the same level as ele and guardian.

This entire thread is "ele mains" complaining their class is bottom tier in PvP and whining for buffs instead of properly addressing the power creep as they're too short sighted to see how bad the state of the game is now and how much worse it will get if you keep buffing ele instead of nerfing everything down several notches.

Once you nerf everything down...would you address the clankiness of weaver like the unnecessary double attunement CD? After the several nerfs received now you don't have even the wvw staff meme build to support any claim of ele viability with weaver a supposed dmg focused elite, the whole elite is close to be a joke on par with renegade.

Do you even know the real facts? The elementalist has received nothing but build destroying nerfs since Septmber 2015 while on the other side everybody else except revenant received substantial buffs to their utilities and trait lines.

The last time we saw substantial buffs to traitlines was back in Dec 2013 with the introduction of Stone Heart , Diamond skin and Blinding ashes, also Lightning rod and after that....

nerfs upon nerfs adding to more nerfs with the removal of any usable amulet

but hey...eles are crying too much so....let's make a deal : you bring your list of facts and I bring mine then we see if all the complaints are really unwarranted

And please please please @apharma.3741 it's time for you to realize that nobody asked anet to turn the spellcaster from GW1 into a magic warrior meme so it's not the bloody fault of the playerbase if they try to get by with what they've got, if you want people to stay at melee range...

they need bloody sustain

It is the fault of the playerbase when they know everything is too strong, they know everything needs toning down but they ask for buffs anyway. Pulsing stab has very little counterplay as it is reapplied soon after being stolen/ripped, outside of boon corrupt where it is objectively worse.

Also have you all not realised that if stab pulses all your boon duration would actually give you LESS duration on your stability? 50% boon duration will give you 9s stab currently, if it's pulsing you'd get shorter duration of 2-3s so only get 7-7.5s total of stab with the same amount of duration as it doesn't stack duration. That wouldn't be a QoL change it would be a change many in the playerbase after using would think was a dumb idea.

It doesn't seem Anet nerfing anything on the contrary.....

I get it where you come from but so should you with us, we all know that they screwed up royally with elementalist..they know this themselves ...only they will never admit it in their infinite arrogance, try tried to reinvent the wheel and they got burned badly and justly so, they could have expanded on the GW1 concept in so many way but instead they got sidetracked by their own euphoria.

Nerfing everything will not change much , you forget all the gear/stats changes since HoT launch, all the trait and QoL changes which are now immune to any kind of powercreep reversion.

In the end the GW2 elementalist is a clown fiesta concept that relies on gimmicks to remain competitive and this has been clear since day one but only it got

conveniently

brushed under the carpet by the community and devs alike. When you must use every single defensive utility/trait just to be playable..you know the whole design is a total fiasco, everything comes down like a domino at a minimal nerf....

it's ridiculous

They made this class : the lowest Hp and armor, the most complicated mechanic and a complete lack of inbuilt defensice mechanisms...then they gave it a set of melee weapons and they expect everything to work....

it's complete non-sense

You don't need a degree in mechanical engineering to know that a car can't run on square wheels and in the same vein you don't need to be a game designer to know something at melee range needs proper sustain to survive....1+1=2

Yes I know where you come from, we don't want to see a resurgence of the celestial bunker d/d but they did this mess and now who is supposed to clear it? They should clearly go back to the drawing board with ele at this point but they won't do it so their only option is to add even more gimmicks because without any OP trait/skill/gear this class simply doesn't work at all...

Ele has decent defensive mechanics depending on how you build it. I remember saying this to someone a while back and pointing out that nearly every ele weapon combo has a heal and a cleanse on the set, some more so than others but this is baseline on the skills. Ele also has some pretty decent proactive ways to lower damage taken whether it's by control on staff, gaining toughness and blinds on scepter (yes scepter needs a rework I'll agree with that) shocking aura and ring of earth on dagger as well as the flavours of offhand.

If you look at it in terms of the core game ele has a lot, even with HoT core ele is relatively competitive and I am running around currently with core ele in WvW. It's just the PoF specs that are a whole new level.

Yes stat types are probably immune to power creep reversion unless they remove them and let people choose new stats for affected pieces. However traits and QoL is easily changed, they actually did this with a lot of pulsing stab ironically as it offered no counter play to removing and made you essentially immune to anything but repeated corruption. They can also easily tone down the power creep, I outlined changes in a post on the engineer forums where you can keep the flavour but reduce the power and keep going from there:

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/751210#Comment_751210

[Arheundel.6451]

@apharma.3741 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@steki.1478 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@"Sigmoid.7082" said:It would be a greater liability against corruption as a pulsing boon.all you gotta do is break stun / condi clear once and dodge, or lightning flash / mist form. pulsing corrupts are very unlikely to get your stab first or second pulse if you have many boons.

Using mistform after using armour of earth should warrant an uninstall from anyone that does not consider it a bad move and that they messed up.

Sigmoid is entirely correct and the opportunity cost of using multiple corrupts to keep you chain CC'd is well worth it. Bear in mind no necro is likely to be alone so that other guy has a free pass to wail on you. Meanwhile you just wasted 2 cool downs when you should have only used 1.

I'd rather be corrupted once than risk being corrupted multiple times, this is one of the reasons scourge was so strong on launch, it wasn't just that it had a lot of conditions it's that boon spam was so high and it's AoE boon corrupts (so stack multiple necros and stagger, constant rings of corrupts) so high that it further compounded the issue.

Warr has pulsing stab. How many times have you seen one being perma feared? Weaver uses stab on stances which are used quite frequently for a lot of stab uptime, what about that? When was the last time you've seen weaver with armor of earth?

Besides, only necro has corrupts, every class has hard CC and you can apply boons so your pulsing stab doesn't get corrupted each pulse.

Ele cant apply more than 2-3 boons per second to secure that one-time stab doesn't get insta corrupted.

You do realise the only pulsing stab warrior has outside of rampage is balanced stance which warriors don't use at all because having longer duration single application stab is better than pulsing? That's without mentioning there's a world of difference between how a warrior fights a necro and how ele does. War tends to stunlock opponents and what do you know, necro doesn't have enough stunbreaks let alone stab to deal with it so the warrior often doesn't get the stab corrupted. If it does, cleanse or resistance and ignore.

Wait what? Have you ever actually played ele?

Here's ele fighting a boon removal mesmer and the ele is literally face tanking shatters so constantly having boons removed. Notice how quickly he gets back up to 3-5 boons? With no removal ele is usually sitting at might, swiftness, regen, protection and vigor as permanent boons and you're likely to have some fury/retal mixed in from elemental contingency assuming you don't believe in auto procs saving your life when you messed up. Sure they "can't apply more than 2-3 boons per second" but name any class that can consistently do that? I know many, including ele can burst out a load of boons but most classes cannot constantly churn out boons on the same level as ele and guardian.

This entire thread is "ele mains" complaining their class is bottom tier in PvP and whining for buffs instead of properly addressing the power creep as they're too short sighted to see how bad the state of the game is now and how much worse it will get if you keep buffing ele instead of nerfing everything down several notches.

Once you nerf everything down...would you address the clankiness of weaver like the unnecessary double attunement CD? After the several nerfs received now you don't have even the wvw staff meme build to support any claim of ele viability with weaver a supposed dmg focused elite, the whole elite is close to be a joke on par with renegade.

Do you even know the real facts? The elementalist has received nothing but build destroying nerfs since Septmber 2015 while on the other side everybody else except revenant received substantial buffs to their utilities and trait lines.

The last time we saw substantial buffs to traitlines was back in Dec 2013 with the introduction of Stone Heart , Diamond skin and Blinding ashes, also Lightning rod and after that....

nerfs upon nerfs adding to more nerfs with the removal of any usable amulet

but hey...eles are crying too much so....let's make a deal : you bring your list of facts and I bring mine then we see if all the complaints are really unwarranted

And please please please @apharma.3741 it's time for you to realize that nobody asked anet to turn the spellcaster from GW1 into a magic warrior meme so it's not the bloody fault of the playerbase if they try to get by with what they've got, if you want people to stay at melee range...

they need bloody sustain

It is the fault of the playerbase when they know everything is too strong, they know everything needs toning down but they ask for buffs anyway. Pulsing stab has very little counterplay as it is reapplied soon after being stolen/ripped, outside of boon corrupt where it is objectively worse.

Also have you all not realised that if stab pulses all your boon duration would actually give you LESS duration on your stability? 50% boon duration will give you 9s stab currently, if it's pulsing you'd get shorter duration of 2-3s so only get 7-7.5s total of stab with the same amount of duration as it doesn't stack duration. That wouldn't be a QoL change it would be a change many in the playerbase after using would think was a dumb idea.

It doesn't seem Anet nerfing anything on the contrary.....

I get it where you come from but so should you with us, we all know that they screwed up royally with elementalist..they know this themselves ...only they will never admit it in their infinite arrogance, try tried to reinvent the wheel and they got burned badly and justly so, they could have expanded on the GW1 concept in so many way but instead they got sidetracked by their own euphoria.

Nerfing everything will not change much , you forget all the gear/stats changes since HoT launch, all the trait and QoL changes which are now immune to any kind of powercreep reversion.

In the end the GW2 elementalist is a clown fiesta concept that relies on gimmicks to remain competitive and this has been clear since day one but only it got

conveniently

brushed under the carpet by the community and devs alike. When you must use every single defensive utility/trait just to be playable..you know the whole design is a total fiasco, everything comes down like a domino at a minimal nerf....

it's ridiculous

They made this class : the lowest Hp and armor, the most complicated mechanic and a complete lack of inbuilt defensice mechanisms...then they gave it a set of melee weapons and they expect everything to work....

it's complete non-sense

You don't need a degree in mechanical engineering to know that a car can't run on square wheels and in the same vein you don't need to be a game designer to know something at melee range needs proper sustain to survive....1+1=2

Yes I know where you come from, we don't want to see a resurgence of the celestial bunker d/d but they did this mess and now who is supposed to clear it? They should clearly go back to the drawing board with ele at this point but they won't do it so their only option is to add even more gimmicks because without any OP trait/skill/gear this class simply doesn't work at all...

Ele has decent defensive mechanics depending on how you build it. I remember saying this to someone a while back and pointing out that nearly every ele weapon combo has a heal and a cleanse on the set, some more so than others but this is baseline on the skills. Ele also has some pretty decent proactive ways to lower damage taken whether it's by control on staff, gaining toughness and blinds on scepter (yes scepter needs a rework I'll agree with that) shocking aura and ring of earth on dagger as well as the flavours of offhand.

If you look at it in terms of the core game ele has a lot, even with HoT core ele is relatively competitive and I am running around currently with core ele in WvW. It's just the PoF specs that are a whole new level.

Yes stat types are probably immune to power creep reversion unless they remove them and let people choose new stats for affected pieces. However traits and QoL is easily changed, they actually did this with a lot of pulsing stab ironically as it offered no counter play to removing and made you essentially immune to anything but repeated corruption. They can also easily tone down the power creep, I outlined changes in a post on the engineer forums where you can keep the flavour but reduce the power and keep going from there:

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/751210#Comment_751210

You can build a thief to never die with shadow arts and healing amulet...can do the same with druid with staff sword/warhorn and what about tactics healing spellbreaker? You get where I am going, being forced to stack every possible sustain trait and stat just to be playable is not what I would call "decent"....why ele can't have anything dealing dmg without dieing in 3s?

[MyPuppy.8970]

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@steki.1478 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@"Sigmoid.7082" said:It would be a greater liability against corruption as a pulsing boon.all you gotta do is break stun / condi clear once and dodge, or lightning flash / mist form. pulsing corrupts are very unlikely to get your stab first or second pulse if you have many boons.

Using mistform after using armour of earth should warrant an uninstall from anyone that does not consider it a bad move and that they messed up.

Sigmoid is entirely correct and the opportunity cost of using multiple corrupts to keep you chain CC'd is well worth it. Bear in mind no necro is likely to be alone so that other guy has a free pass to wail on you. Meanwhile you just wasted 2 cool downs when you should have only used 1.

I'd rather be corrupted once than risk being corrupted multiple times, this is one of the reasons scourge was so strong on launch, it wasn't just that it had a lot of conditions it's that boon spam was so high and it's AoE boon corrupts (so stack multiple necros and stagger, constant rings of corrupts) so high that it further compounded the issue.

Warr has pulsing stab. How many times have you seen one being perma feared? Weaver uses stab on stances which are used quite frequently for a lot of stab uptime, what about that? When was the last time you've seen weaver with armor of earth?

Besides, only necro has corrupts, every class has hard CC and you can apply boons so your pulsing stab doesn't get corrupted each pulse.

Ele cant apply more than 2-3 boons per second to secure that one-time stab doesn't get insta corrupted.

You do realise the only pulsing stab warrior has outside of rampage is balanced stance which warriors don't use at all because having longer duration single application stab is better than pulsing? That's without mentioning there's a world of difference between how a warrior fights a necro and how ele does. War tends to stunlock opponents and what do you know, necro doesn't have enough stunbreaks let alone stab to deal with it so the warrior often doesn't get the stab corrupted. If it does, cleanse or resistance and ignore.

Wait what? Have you ever actually played ele?

Here's ele fighting a boon removal mesmer and the ele is literally face tanking shatters so constantly having boons removed. Notice how quickly he gets back up to 3-5 boons? With no removal ele is usually sitting at might, swiftness, regen, protection and vigor as permanent boons and you're likely to have some fury/retal mixed in from elemental contingency assuming you don't believe in auto procs saving your life when you messed up. Sure they "can't apply more than 2-3 boons per second" but name any class that can consistently do that? I know many, including ele can burst out a load of boons but most classes cannot constantly churn out boons on the same level as ele and guardian.

This entire thread is "ele mains" complaining their class is bottom tier in PvP and whining for buffs instead of properly addressing the power creep as they're too short sighted to see how bad the state of the game is now and how much worse it will get if you keep buffing ele instead of nerfing everything down several notches.

Once you nerf everything down...would you address the clankiness of weaver like the unnecessary double attunement CD? After the several nerfs received now you don't have even the wvw staff meme build to support any claim of ele viability with weaver a supposed dmg focused elite, the whole elite is close to be a joke on par with renegade.

Do you even know the real facts? The elementalist has received nothing but build destroying nerfs since Septmber 2015 while on the other side everybody else except revenant received substantial buffs to their utilities and trait lines.

The last time we saw substantial buffs to traitlines was back in Dec 2013 with the introduction of Stone Heart , Diamond skin and Blinding ashes, also Lightning rod and after that....

nerfs upon nerfs adding to more nerfs with the removal of any usable amulet

but hey...eles are crying too much so....let's make a deal : you bring your list of facts and I bring mine then we see if all the complaints are really unwarranted

And please please please @apharma.3741 it's time for you to realize that nobody asked anet to turn the spellcaster from GW1 into a magic warrior meme so it's not the bloody fault of the playerbase if they try to get by with what they've got, if you want people to stay at melee range...

they need bloody sustain

It is the fault of the playerbase when they know everything is too strong, they know everything needs toning down but they ask for buffs anyway. Pulsing stab has very little counterplay as it is reapplied soon after being stolen/ripped, outside of boon corrupt where it is objectively worse.

Also have you all not realised that if stab pulses all your boon duration would actually give you LESS duration on your stability? 50% boon duration will give you 9s stab currently, if it's pulsing you'd get shorter duration of 2-3s so only get 7-7.5s total of stab with the same amount of duration as it doesn't stack duration. That wouldn't be a QoL change it would be a change many in the playerbase after using would think was a dumb idea.

It doesn't seem Anet nerfing anything on the contrary.....

I get it where you come from but so should you with us, we all know that they screwed up royally with elementalist..they know this themselves ...only they will never admit it in their infinite arrogance, try tried to reinvent the wheel and they got burned badly and justly so, they could have expanded on the GW1 concept in so many way but instead they got sidetracked by their own euphoria.

Nerfing everything will not change much , you forget all the gear/stats changes since HoT launch, all the trait and QoL changes which are now immune to any kind of powercreep reversion.

In the end the GW2 elementalist is a clown fiesta concept that relies on gimmicks to remain competitive and this has been clear since day one but only it got

conveniently

brushed under the carpet by the community and devs alike. When you must use every single defensive utility/trait just to be playable..you know the whole design is a total fiasco, everything comes down like a domino at a minimal nerf....

it's ridiculous

They made this class : the lowest Hp and armor, the most complicated mechanic and a complete lack of inbuilt defensice mechanisms...then they gave it a set of melee weapons and they expect everything to work....

it's complete non-sense

You don't need a degree in mechanical engineering to know that a car can't run on square wheels and in the same vein you don't need to be a game designer to know something at melee range needs proper sustain to survive....1+1=2

Yes I know where you come from, we don't want to see a resurgence of the celestial bunker d/d but they did this mess and now who is supposed to clear it? They should clearly go back to the drawing board with ele at this point but they won't do it so their only option is to add even more gimmicks because without any OP trait/skill/gear this class simply doesn't work at all...

Ele has decent defensive mechanics depending on how you build it. I remember saying this to someone a while back and pointing out that nearly every ele weapon combo has a heal and a cleanse on the set, some more so than others but this is baseline on the skills. Ele also has some pretty decent proactive ways to lower damage taken whether it's by control on staff, gaining toughness and blinds on scepter (yes scepter needs a rework I'll agree with that) shocking aura and ring of earth on dagger as well as the flavours of offhand.

If you look at it in terms of the core game ele has a lot, even with HoT core ele is relatively competitive and I am running around currently with core ele in WvW. It's just the PoF specs that are a whole new level.

Yes stat types are probably immune to power creep reversion unless they remove them and let people choose new stats for affected pieces. However traits and QoL is easily changed, they actually did this with a lot of pulsing stab ironically as it offered no counter play to removing and made you essentially immune to anything but repeated corruption. They can also easily tone down the power creep, I outlined changes in a post on the engineer forums where you can keep the flavour but reduce the power and keep going from there:

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/751210#Comment_751210

You can build a thief to never die with shadow arts and healing amulet...can do the same with druid with staff sword/warhorn and what about tactics healing spellbreaker? You get where I am going, being forced to stack every possible sustain trait and stat just to be playable is not what I would call "decent"....

why ele can't have anything dealing dmg without dieing in 3s?

Because:

"What they lack in physical toughness, they make up in versatility and the ability to inflict massive damage in a single attack. "

[lLobo.7960]

Armor of earth needs to pulse 1s of protection and stability every second for its duration. thats all.It will combo nicely with boom duration and runes, it can still be corrupted into one fear (but a stun-break or cleanse would solve that, unless chain corrupts, but needs counterplay anyway) , but having boom duration will make the stab overlap making it harder to be removed by chain cc.

[Vinny.7260]

Armor of Earth should NOT be pulsing boons. That's how a Necromancer would counter us even harder; we don't want to be feared for ten seconds because we decide to try to stun break; that's how Necromancers deal with Warriors right now, let's not get stuck in that same boat. We're already having a hard time with Necromancers who know how to play as it is.

Armor of Earth should just have a lower cool down with lower boon duration and stacks. The core functionality is pretty strong, but 10 stacks of Stability is not necessary. Having it has a more active stun break, though, would be a lot more useful.

Example of what I mean:Armor of Earth: Reduce the Stability stacks to 3 for 4 seconds; Protection reduced to 4 seconds; cool down reduced to 25 seconds.

This change would snap a massive amount of cool down off; you wouldn't be fussing over whether or not you're going to get CC-chained by a Warrior or something, and you won't be paranoid of a Necromancer walking up to you like: "Oooooh, is that a pulsing Stability I see? Let me just-- eat that."