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Nerf list after patch

Quadox.7834

By Quadox.7834
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Quadox.7834

Quadox.7834

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@ArcanistSeven.8720 said:

  • Instant Reflexesyou want to nerf one of the few defense traits thief has. its on a 40 second cooldown and 90 second cooldown in pvp.Yes, this is a very unnecessary passive that lowers thief skillfloor and reduces counterplay to SD thief, which has more than enough defenses already. Other thief specs that are struggling more at the moment such as D/P doesn't use this. Other passives such as Desperate Decoy should be removed as well.
  • Binding Shadowthis can be countered by a block, dodge, or a stun break and if anything deaths judgment should get a nerf.

You are probably right that this is not high priority now that I added stealth on dodge, so I will remove it. However, I cannot understand who thought it would be a good idea to make a utility do long-duration immobilize+knockdown, from 1200 range, and through stability... (it strips boons before the CC). Stunbreak on its own is not really a counter, you also have to condi clear.

In the end I think Silent Scope is enough for DE.

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Dreams.3128

Dreams.3128

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@bluri.2653 said:

@BlackTruth.6813 said:I don't know about Defy Pain and Rousing Resillience, it's too pointless to nerf those right now because it's not like you can't use conditions on Endure Pain and it's not like the healing does anything when there is so much damage right now..1000 toughness but no soldier amulet to back it up should still be killable within seconds.

Passive gameplay like Defy Pain needed to go a long time ago but I don't know if it's the way to go nowadays when the damage pool is high.

MAYBE shake it off needs to be looked at, but that's a maybe.

If Slb and Mirage get nerfed enough we will start to see defense Warriors (and Holo), and this build is even harder to +1 by rev and (especially) thief. The sustain is absolutely overtuned (ele sustain is also too high but less of a problem right now). But sure I will think about if there is a better angle of attack, like Shake it Off.

I can agree that Defy Pain is highest priority but I can't understand why this is still in the game (same with thief passive evade). They did take steps to reduce passive traits so they should go all the way.Ill remove it from the list because it reqiures a rework.

To @sephiroth.4217 and @Swagg.9236 I agree that it would be good not to powercreep Tempest too much. Better to nerf FB for example.

@"Stand The Wall.6987"Many agree with many/most of the points so please explain what you disagree with. Thanks. :)

Nerfing FB won't do anything, Anet spitefully made the class coherently better than Tempest in every way because people couldn't handle getting their Condi damage mitigated at the time. Now we just have an auramancer that doesn't bump out auras, but just stronger boons and like seven different ways to ignore hard CCs cause free stunbreak mantra and three whole kitten books to spit out boons all day.

So you think FB is too strong, but making it weaker (nerfing) won't help??? That doesn't make any sense.

I mean who else could take FB's place? What could scrapper bring to the table? What could Tempest bring to the table?

Firebrand does everything right. I am not saying it's stupidly op because it did get nerfs, but what I am saying is that Anet just made it a simply /better/ support compared to all of the other support specs. Nerfing it to the floor will make it useless and buffing it too much will make it so no one will ever die in a teamfight. What I am saying is that Firebrand will always just be the number one support and all the rest just severely lack to the point where no one uses them, or only die hard fans will use them.

Ideally, the supports all should be viable in some way. Whether it be for a specific boons, more potent healing, or heavy CC/tank. The issue we have now is that Firebrand takes most of these spots except for maybe heavy CC. It's a multi-purpose support instead of being designed like scrapper who was your cc tank or tempest who was your potent healer/aura-giver.

It's like league where you have enchanters, tanks, engagers. There is no champion that exists currently that has ALL three of those categories. They will have one or two at best. I hope I have cleared that up because again, I don't WANT Firebrand to be nerfed, but I don't want it to be the end all, be all support either.

I think that's wrong.

How is that wrong? Explain?

Is that not how DPSers are split up? Ones that do good single-target dps? Ones that do good AOE? Ones that are good in power? Ones that are good in Condi?

How is having different sects of supports different from having different sects do? Every spec is, technically, supposed to be 'good' at something.

Or do you mean that I am about the fact that Firebrand is a oppressive support when it comes to comparing the spec to other supports?

Because so can nerf it by removing some of these options and not making it good at everything as you say. A nerf doesn't have to be number changes like "lowered trait X by Y%". Guardian is one of my least played so I don't know what makes it so strong / what needs nerfs.

The other fella was right on the money..FB fills the majority of support roles on its own and unless the whole class gets a rework then theres simply no room for other supports...What was a support before PoF has become a supplement.

Agreed fully, i dislike all suggestions around buffing all supports to meet fb, fb is the issue and needs toning down/reworked.

Honestly even with buffing I don't think any support can really hit FB's standards. But yes, I do agree. FB needs a serious rework and seeing as Anet doesn't know how to buff properly, I'd rather see a slight rework than a big one.

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Sindrener.1592

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@Lilyanna.9361 said:

@BlackTruth.6813 said:I don't know about Defy Pain and Rousing Resillience, it's too pointless to nerf those right now because it's not like you can't use conditions on Endure Pain and it's not like the healing does anything when there is so much damage right now..1000 toughness but no soldier amulet to back it up should still be killable within seconds.

Passive gameplay like Defy Pain needed to go a long time ago but I don't know if it's the way to go nowadays when the damage pool is high.

MAYBE shake it off needs to be looked at, but that's a maybe.

If Slb and Mirage get nerfed enough we will start to see defense Warriors (and Holo), and this build is even harder to +1 by rev and (especially) thief. The sustain is absolutely overtuned (ele sustain is also too high but less of a problem right now). But sure I will think about if there is a better angle of attack, like Shake it Off.

I can agree that Defy Pain is highest priority but I can't understand why this is still in the game (same with thief passive evade). They did take steps to reduce passive traits so they should go all the way.Ill remove it from the list because it reqiures a rework.

To @sephiroth.4217 and @Swagg.9236 I agree that it would be good not to powercreep Tempest too much. Better to nerf FB for example.

@"Stand The Wall.6987"Many agree with many/most of the points so please explain what you disagree with. Thanks. :)

Nerfing FB won't do anything, Anet spitefully made the class coherently better than Tempest in every way because people couldn't handle getting their Condi damage mitigated at the time. Now we just have an auramancer that doesn't bump out auras, but just stronger boons and like seven different ways to ignore hard CCs cause free stunbreak mantra and three whole kitten books to spit out boons all day.

So you think FB is too strong, but making it weaker (nerfing) won't help??? That doesn't make any sense.

I mean who else could take FB's place? What could scrapper bring to the table? What could Tempest bring to the table?

Firebrand does everything right. I am not saying it's stupidly op because it did get nerfs, but what I am saying is that Anet just made it a simply /better/ support compared to all of the other support specs. Nerfing it to the floor will make it useless and buffing it too much will make it so no one will ever die in a teamfight. What I am saying is that Firebrand will always just be the number one support and all the rest just severely lack to the point where no one uses them, or only die hard fans will use them.

Ideally, the supports all should be viable in some way. Whether it be for a specific boons, more potent healing, or heavy CC/tank. The issue we have now is that Firebrand takes most of these spots except for maybe heavy CC. It's a multi-purpose support instead of being designed like scrapper who was your cc tank or tempest who was your potent healer/aura-giver.

It's like league where you have enchanters, tanks, engagers. There is no champion that exists currently that has ALL three of those categories. They will have one or two at best. I hope I have cleared that up because again, I don't WANT Firebrand to be nerfed, but I don't want it to be the end all, be all support either.

I think that's wrong.

How is that wrong? Explain?

Is that not how DPSers are split up? Ones that do good single-target dps? Ones that do good AOE? Ones that are good in power? Ones that are good in Condi?

How is having different sects of supports different from having different sects do? Every spec is, technically, supposed to be 'good' at something.

Or do you mean that I am about the fact that Firebrand is a oppressive support when it comes to comparing the spec to other supports?

Because so can nerf it by removing some of these options and not making it good at everything as you say. A nerf doesn't have to be number changes like "lowered trait X by Y%". Guardian is one of my least played so I don't know what makes it so strong / what needs nerfs.

The other fella was right on the money..FB fills the majority of support roles on its own and unless the whole class gets a rework then theres simply no room for other supports...What was a support before PoF has become a supplement.

Agreed fully, i dislike all suggestions around buffing all supports to meet fb, fb is the issue and needs toning down/reworked.

Honestly even with buffing I don't think any support can really hit FB's standards. But yes, I do agree. FB needs a serious rework and seeing as Anet doesn't know how to buff properly, I'd rather see a slight rework than a big one.

Ye just look at scrapper after the patch, its literally laughable at how bad they balance stuff. Its actually comedy

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Quadox.7834

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@bluri.2653 said:

@BlackTruth.6813 said:I don't know about Defy Pain and Rousing Resillience, it's too pointless to nerf those right now because it's not like you can't use conditions on Endure Pain and it's not like the healing does anything when there is so much damage right now..1000 toughness but no soldier amulet to back it up should still be killable within seconds.

Passive gameplay like Defy Pain needed to go a long time ago but I don't know if it's the way to go nowadays when the damage pool is high.

MAYBE shake it off needs to be looked at, but that's a maybe.

If Slb and Mirage get nerfed enough we will start to see defense Warriors (and Holo), and this build is even harder to +1 by rev and (especially) thief. The sustain is absolutely overtuned (ele sustain is also too high but less of a problem right now). But sure I will think about if there is a better angle of attack, like Shake it Off.

I can agree that Defy Pain is highest priority but I can't understand why this is still in the game (same with thief passive evade). They did take steps to reduce passive traits so they should go all the way.Ill remove it from the list because it reqiures a rework.

To @sephiroth.4217 and @Swagg.9236 I agree that it would be good not to powercreep Tempest too much. Better to nerf FB for example.

@"Stand The Wall.6987"Many agree with many/most of the points so please explain what you disagree with. Thanks. :)

Nerfing FB won't do anything, Anet spitefully made the class coherently better than Tempest in every way because people couldn't handle getting their Condi damage mitigated at the time. Now we just have an auramancer that doesn't bump out auras, but just stronger boons and like seven different ways to ignore hard CCs cause free stunbreak mantra and three whole kitten books to spit out boons all day.

So you think FB is too strong, but making it weaker (nerfing) won't help??? That doesn't make any sense.

I mean who else could take FB's place? What could scrapper bring to the table? What could Tempest bring to the table?

Firebrand does everything right. I am not saying it's stupidly op because it did get nerfs, but what I am saying is that Anet just made it a simply /better/ support compared to all of the other support specs. Nerfing it to the floor will make it useless and buffing it too much will make it so no one will ever die in a teamfight. What I am saying is that Firebrand will always just be the number one support and all the rest just severely lack to the point where no one uses them, or only die hard fans will use them.

Ideally, the supports all should be viable in some way. Whether it be for a specific boons, more potent healing, or heavy CC/tank. The issue we have now is that Firebrand takes most of these spots except for maybe heavy CC. It's a multi-purpose support instead of being designed like scrapper who was your cc tank or tempest who was your potent healer/aura-giver.

It's like league where you have enchanters, tanks, engagers. There is no champion that exists currently that has ALL three of those categories. They will have one or two at best. I hope I have cleared that up because again, I don't WANT Firebrand to be nerfed, but I don't want it to be the end all, be all support either.

I think that's wrong.

How is that wrong? Explain?

Is that not how DPSers are split up? Ones that do good single-target dps? Ones that do good AOE? Ones that are good in power? Ones that are good in Condi?

How is having different sects of supports different from having different sects do? Every spec is, technically, supposed to be 'good' at something.

Or do you mean that I am about the fact that Firebrand is a oppressive support when it comes to comparing the spec to other supports?

Because so can nerf it by removing some of these options and not making it good at everything as you say. A nerf doesn't have to be number changes like "lowered trait X by Y%". Guardian is one of my least played so I don't know what makes it so strong / what needs nerfs.

The other fella was right on the money..FB fills the majority of support roles on its own and unless the whole class gets a rework then theres simply no room for other supports...What was a support before PoF has become a supplement.

Agreed fully, i dislike all suggestions around buffing all supports to meet fb, fb is the issue and needs toning down/reworked.

Honestly even with buffing I don't think any support can really hit FB's standards. But yes, I do agree. FB needs a serious rework and seeing as Anet doesn't know how to buff properly, I'd rather see a slight rework than a big one.

Ye just look at scrapper after the patch, its literally laughable at how bad they balance stuff. Its actually comedy

Haven't had time to check it out yet, what's wrong with it?

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Dadnir.5038

Dadnir.5038

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Necromancer: Soul comprehension is way to strong in sPvP. It give way to much sustain to the shroud. Such a passive trait need to be removed from the game. Ideally it should be replaced by putrid defense and we should get a whole new adept trait related to the shroud to be coherent with deadly strength and unohly sanctuary.

Sarcasm aside, all traits are by definition "passive", If you don't like passive things why not just asking anet to remove the traitlines?

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Quadox.7834

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@"Dadnir.5038" said:Necromancer: Soul comprehension is way to strong in sPvP. It give way to much sustain to the shroud. Such a passive trait need to be removed from the game. Ideally it should be replaced by putrid defense and we should get a whole new adept trait related to the shroud to be coherent with deadly strength and unohly sanctuary.

Sarcasm aside, all traits are by definition "passive", If you don't like passive things why not just asking anet to remove the traitlines?

You are being deliberately obtuse. Also, what does it have to do with the thread?

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dominik.9721

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@Quadox.7834 said:Well we are post-patch now so we can include more things, make suggestions especially for Guardian, Necromancer, Elementalist, if you like.

Core guard should still be viable by swapping to marauder. You lose around 4k health and some ferocity but as compensation you reach 100% crit chance instead of 75%, which means you can also swapp out sigill of intelligence.

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Miles Smiles.8951

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@dominik.9721 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:Well we are post-patch now so we can include more things, make suggestions especially for Guardian, Necromancer, Elementalist, if you like.

Core guard should still be viable by swapping to marauder. You lose around 4k health and some ferocity but as compensation you reach 100% crit chance instead of 75%, which means you can also swapp out sigill of intelligence.

What if, say, you stay valk but take a precision rune (eagle or thief even) and reach ~60% crit instead of 75%. Sounds like more lottery this way but probably still an option

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dominik.9721

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@Miles Smiles.8951 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:Well we are post-patch now so we can include more things, make suggestions especially for Guardian, Necromancer, Elementalist, if you like.

Core guard should still be viable by swapping to marauder. You lose around 4k health and some ferocity but as compensation you reach 100% crit chance instead of 75%, which means you can also swapp out sigill of intelligence.

What if, say, you stay valk but take a precision rune (eagle or thief even) and reach ~60% crit instead of 75%. Sounds like more lottery this way but probably still an option

Pretty sure the dmg with 100% crit + proper rune is much better than valk with 60% crit.And after a while of playing, you don't even notice anymore that you got 4k less life.

Played marauder for 2 hours now and I still rek everything like I used to with valk.

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Quadox.7834

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@dominik.9721 said:

@"Quadox.7834" said:Well we are post-patch now so we can include more things, make suggestions especially for Guardian, Necromancer, Elementalist, if you like.

Core guard should still be viable by swapping to marauder. You lose around 4k health and some ferocity but as compensation you reach 100% crit chance instead of 75%, which means you can also swapp out sigill of intelligence.

What if, say, you stay valk but take a precision rune (eagle or thief even) and reach ~60% crit instead of 75%. Sounds like more lottery this way but probably still an option

Pretty sure the dmg with 100% crit + proper rune is much better than valk with 60% crit.And after a while of playing, you don't even notice anymore that you got 4k less life.

Played marauder for 2 hours now and I still rek everything like I used to with valk.

Valkyrie is just a bad amulet in almost all situations, I mean 4k is 2 autos these days anyway. Ferocity is a terrible stat as well. What guard "needs" to compete with thief+rev is mobility, not a little bit more hp.

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dominik.9721

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@Quadox.7834 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:Well we are post-patch now so we can include more things, make suggestions especially for Guardian, Necromancer, Elementalist, if you like.

Core guard should still be viable by swapping to marauder. You lose around 4k health and some ferocity but as compensation you reach 100% crit chance instead of 75%, which means you can also swapp out sigill of intelligence.

What if, say, you stay valk but take a precision rune (eagle or thief even) and reach ~60% crit instead of 75%. Sounds like more lottery this way but probably still an option

Pretty sure the dmg with 100% crit + proper rune is much better than valk with 60% crit.And after a while of playing, you don't even notice anymore that you got 4k less life.

Played marauder for 2 hours now and I still rek everything like I used to with valk.

Valkyrie is just a bad amulet in almost all situations, I mean 4k is 2 autos these days anyway. Ferocity is a terrible stat as well. What guard "needs" to compete with thief+rev is mobility, not a little bit more hp.

You do realize before patch it was the best amulet for core guard, since he got his crit chance due to traits?Everyone played valkyre, so how does your comment makes any sense?

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Quadox.7834

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@dominik.9721 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:Well we are post-patch now so we can include more things, make suggestions especially for Guardian, Necromancer, Elementalist, if you like.

Core guard should still be viable by swapping to marauder. You lose around 4k health and some ferocity but as compensation you reach 100% crit chance instead of 75%, which means you can also swapp out sigill of intelligence.

What if, say, you stay valk but take a precision rune (eagle or thief even) and reach ~60% crit instead of 75%. Sounds like more lottery this way but probably still an option

Pretty sure the dmg with 100% crit + proper rune is much better than valk with 60% crit.And after a while of playing, you don't even notice anymore that you got 4k less life.

Played marauder for 2 hours now and I still rek everything like I used to with valk.

Valkyrie is just a bad amulet in almost all situations, I mean 4k is 2 autos these days anyway. Ferocity is a terrible stat as well. What guard "needs" to compete with thief+rev is mobility, not a little bit more hp.

You do realize before patch it was the best amulet for core guard, since he got his crit chance due to traits?So how does your comment makes any sense?

"almost all situations", of course valk will be better in a situation where you get 50% crit chance for free.

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@"Crozame.4098" said:people still want to nerf FC.. what a kitten joke.. You must be gold and below...

Yes, it shouldn't proc. on pets, illusions, minions, etc. why on earth should spellbreaker have an inherent advantage to these specs, and they can't do anything about it. It is not a nerf for Warriors who actually time their Full Counter well. But I guess you are not in that category. EDIT: and of course, you did not have any input on the rest, instead you pick out one thing and say "you must be gold lel" and ignore the rest, like a true intellectual.

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dominik.9721

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@Quadox.7834 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:Well we are post-patch now so we can include more things, make suggestions especially for Guardian, Necromancer, Elementalist, if you like.

Core guard should still be viable by swapping to marauder. You lose around 4k health and some ferocity but as compensation you reach 100% crit chance instead of 75%, which means you can also swapp out sigill of intelligence.

What if, say, you stay valk but take a precision rune (eagle or thief even) and reach ~60% crit instead of 75%. Sounds like more lottery this way but probably still an option

Pretty sure the dmg with 100% crit + proper rune is much better than valk with 60% crit.And after a while of playing, you don't even notice anymore that you got 4k less life.

Played marauder for 2 hours now and I still rek everything like I used to with valk.

Valkyrie is just a bad amulet in almost all situations, I mean 4k is 2 autos these days anyway. Ferocity is a terrible stat as well. What guard "needs" to compete with thief+rev is mobility, not a little bit more hp.

You do realize before patch it was the best amulet for core guard, since he got his crit chance due to traits?So how does your comment makes any sense?

"almost all situations", of course valk will be better in a situation where you get 50% crit chance for free.

Then I don't get your input, when we talk about core guard who obviously does get his 50% crit chance for free.

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Quadox.7834

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@dominik.9721 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:Well we are post-patch now so we can include more things, make suggestions especially for Guardian, Necromancer, Elementalist, if you like.

Core guard should still be viable by swapping to marauder. You lose around 4k health and some ferocity but as compensation you reach 100% crit chance instead of 75%, which means you can also swapp out sigill of intelligence.

What if, say, you stay valk but take a precision rune (eagle or thief even) and reach ~60% crit instead of 75%. Sounds like more lottery this way but probably still an option

Pretty sure the dmg with 100% crit + proper rune is much better than valk with 60% crit.And after a while of playing, you don't even notice anymore that you got 4k less life.

Played marauder for 2 hours now and I still rek everything like I used to with valk.

Valkyrie is just a bad amulet in almost all situations, I mean 4k is 2 autos these days anyway. Ferocity is a terrible stat as well. What guard "needs" to compete with thief+rev is mobility, not a little bit more hp.

You do realize before patch it was the best amulet for core guard, since he got his crit chance due to traits?So how does your comment makes any sense?

"almost all situations", of course valk will be better in a situation where you get 50% crit chance for free.

Then I don't get your input, when we talk about core guard who obviously does get his 50% crit chance for free.

Just saying that Valk is a bad amulet outside very fringe cases.

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Crozame.4098

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@Quadox.7834 said:

@"Crozame.4098" said:people still want to nerf FC.. what a kitten joke.. You must be gold and below...

Yes, it shouldn't proc. on pets, illusions, minions, etc. why on earth should spellbreaker have an inherent advantage to these specs, and they can't do anything about it. It is not a nerf for Warriors who actually time their Full Counter well. But I guess you are not in that category. EDIT: and of course, you did not have any input on the rest, instead you pick out one thing and say "you must be gold lel" and ignore the rest, like a true intellectual.

What advantage? War atm is a 1v1er and it is the worst among the three. It also cannot kill good Engis, who knows how to disengage and reengage. It has minimal influence on teamfights where FC are more likely to proc, in such cases, the game is either easy win, or nearly impossible to win (for example, winning 1v1s but other teammates lose every other teamfight.) Therefore, in teamfighting cases, it does not matter.

In 1v1s, then the argument is that, other players should learn to stow their weapon/skill/pet to bite FC. Even they cannot, the dmg now cannot even kill a fucking clone, so whats the point for further nerfing it? I might not mind this change, they bring the dmg back.

Yes, I dont need to read your other notes, because it already shows how clueless you are when making this one comment.

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Quadox.7834

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@Crozame.4098 said:

@Crozame.4098 said:people still want to nerf FC.. what a kitten joke.. You must be gold and below...

Yes, it shouldn't proc. on pets, illusions, minions, etc. why on earth should spellbreaker have an inherent advantage to these specs, and they can't do anything about it. It is not a nerf for Warriors who actually time their Full Counter well. But I guess you are not in that category. EDIT: and of course, you did not have any input on the rest, instead you pick out one thing and say "you must be gold lel" and ignore the rest, like a true intellectual.

What advantage? War atm is a 1v1er and it is the worst among the three. It also cannot kill good Engis, who knows how to disengage and reengage. It has minimal influence on teamfights where FC are more likely to proc, in such cases, the game is either easy win, or nearly impossible to win (for example, winning 1v1s but other teammates lose every other teamfight.) Therefore, in teamfighting cases, it does not matter.Yes, I want the other sidenoders to be nerfed, some of which you will see
if you actually read the rest of the notes
. But holy fuck it annoys me when people want to keep inherently bad, unskillful, or no-counterplay mechanics
just so
their precious class can be the best. You are of the exact same mentality of carried Mirages who defend their class vehemently. Do you see me defending distortion on Signet for example, despite me being a Chrono main? No? Maybe some people care about the game being fun rather than being biased to hell and back. It is actually hilarious reading your post history, sneaking in a comment of how Warrior is bad or must be buffed in almost every single one.

In 1v1s, then the argument is that, other players should learn to stow their weapon/skill/pet to bite FC.Yes
of course
, tell me more about how Mesmer can stow clones, how necro can stow Minions, and so on.Even they cannot, the dmg now cannot even kill a kitten clone, so whats the point for further nerfing it? I might not mind this change, they bring the dmg back.Fine by me.

Yes, I dont need to read your other notes, because it already shows how clueless you are when making this one comment.
YES OF COURSE
, don't read my other notes about nerfing Ranger, Mesmer, Engi, when these are the exact classes that you are complaining about being stronger than Warrior. Sounds like a great fucking idea. Newsflash: Spellbreaker should be nerfed, along with every other powercrept spec. And of course you must jump straight to ad hominem. I have to say I suspected this from your first comment because of your overuse of ".." multiple times in one sentence. I don't know why but people who overuse punctuation like ".." or ",,," almost always follow the pattern of being uninformed.
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