Mounts & Updrafts

[conradpedalo.5381]

Can we please have a certain feathered and/or hover like mounts use updrafts??

[Theocraft.6053]

you didn't think it through, now did you? and how about the use of gliders? this would totally invalidate HoT

NO

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

No to the griffon using updrafts. I like that weakness it has versus gliding.

However, I wouldn't mind seeing some updrafts get added in the crystal desert. Not many, mind you, but some.

[castlemanic.3198]

Mounts should in no way, shape or form interact with gliding masteries. No updrafts, no stealth, no leyline gliding because the griffon already performs so much better than the glider in most ways, especially since you can transition from a glider to your griffon. I may have been okay with skimmer being able to perform such a feat, but that was before i learned of the existence of the griffon.

As a general rule, masteries should not interact when they are from different expansions.

[Garrick Witchblade.7964]

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:No to the griffon using updrafts. I like that weakness it has versus gliding.

However, I wouldn't mind seeing some updrafts get added in the crystal desert. Not many, mind you, but some.

Agreed. We have updrafts several other places outside of Maguuma, so why not add a few. I do see why that would invalidate a few of the expansion mounts though as well, so only a few updrafts would really be welcome.

[Theocraft.6053]

casuals these days... you woudn't believe

[castlemanic.3198]

@Theocraft.6053 said:casuals these days... you woudn't believe

I've seen at least one hardcore player want that. It's not a trouble with 'casuals'.

[Boogiepop Void.6473]

I see no reason why mounts shouldn't be able to use updrafts. It feels artificial to see these GIANT wings that somehow can't catch air.

[castlemanic.3198]

@Boogiepop Void.6473 said:I see no reason why mounts shouldn't be able to use updrafts. It feels artificial to see these GIANT wings that somehow can't catch air.

Balance is one reason, the griffon already trumps gliding in many respects (speed, altitude recovery, diving into combat from a height and dealing damage on dismount, pressing backspace actually improves falling speed to get on the ground quicker if you need to reach a vista or something, also being mountable in mid air), so having the griffon be able to use updrafts would make gliders that much more useless compared to the griffon.

A second reason is that it's a glider mastery, not a mount mastery. You've trained with your glider to be able to take updrafts, the same isn't true with griffons, no matter if their wings are capable of using those updrafts, before we trained updrafts they're unusable even to people with gliders.

So yeah, there are at least a couple of reasons why that shouldn't be the case.

[Kuulpb.5412]

what about... a "mixed" mastery? Like if you own Hot and maxed gliding, you unlock a last mastery that is "Shared Gliding mastery" meaning Your griffon and skimmer can both now use updrafts and leylines, But it would require a mix of PoF and HoT mastery points, maybe 6 of each and you'd need to gain experience form both poF and Hot to get it.

[castlemanic.3198]

Arenanet should, at no point, require players to have both expansions for a single, specific mastery or benefit. They've made a very clear and conscious decision that the two expansions should remain separate, up to and including the fact that you can buy PoF without buying HoT. By not requiring HoT in any way, shape or form, it thus spits in the face of everyone who only owns one or the other that there's a mastery forever out of their reach, even if they don't ever see it, because there's a psychology in knowing you can have everything if you only spend a bit more. Arenanet don't play with that psychology maliciously, but having a combined mastery would absolutely do that.

[AegisRunestone.8672]

@castlemanic.3198 has pretty much laid out in very plain, clear reasons why the griffon should not be able to use leylines, updrafts, stealth, or be useable (aka mountable) when in combat. There's no room for error here.

Personally, I'm still on the fence of whether I'm getting griffon or not because of how much work I put into maxing the gliding mastery line; how much I love using my glider; and how kind RNG was to me one day when my Clinical Depression was smashing my face in, and then the first BLC I open gives me the Wings of Zephyr--a glider skin I had looked at longingly two days prior. No to mention being unemployed and poor sucks.

Regardless, we need to keep gliding and the griffons balanced. I'm beginning to think adding the griffon as a secret mount was a bad move on Anet's part as it pretty much replaces the glider, save in specific situations (another reason why I'm on the fence about the griffon).

[Ohoni.6057]

I would say this, no to Griffins using updrafts, however, once you unlock the ability to have the Griffin catch you mid-air, you should also get the ability to dismount from the Griffin in the air. This would allow you to Griffon, dismount and glide into an updraft, then remount the Griffin. It would, of course, require both PoF and HoT.

[Rognik.2579]

There is still one advantage gliding has over mounts, and that is that you can glide while in combat (if you're near a high-enough jump), while you can't mount until you're safely out of combat. I have to agree, though, that griffons shouldn't be allowed to leyline glide or use updrafts, as they're pretty powerful even without those things. Now, I would've liked a few of the HoT masteries to be useful in the desert. More like alternate routes to things rather than a way to get into a secret area, like bouncing mushrooms near a cliff that a springer could jump up, but less than the advanced jump. Sort of like how using masteries in core Tyria encourages people to want to buy the various expansions, the desert could've had something to encourage people who got Path of Fire but not Heart of Thorns to get the previous expansion.

[OGDeadHead.8326]

Of course griffins should be able to use updrafts, I see no reason why they shouldn't. Ppl speaking against this reminds me a great deal to the people speaking against gliding in core Tyria. Thank god Anet doesn't listen to these reactionary elements. What's it to you anyway? I use gliding as well as my griffin.

[castlemanic.3198]

@OGDeadHead.8326 said:Of course griffins should be able to use updrafts, I see no reason why they shouldn't. Ppl speaking against this reminds me a great deal to the people speaking against gliding in core Tyria. Thank god Anet doesn't listen to these reactionary elements. What's it to you anyway? I use gliding as well as my griffin.

A small, tiny, insignificant thing called balance, you know, like the kind that's used to make sure one class or build isn't totally supreme in all aspects of the game?

Griffons and gliders are now competing for the spot of air travel, in which the griffon wins out in almost every category except updrafts. Gliding had no competing element in core tyria, and as such didn't need such restrictions in the first place. It was a nice addition, but when it came down to certain elements of the game, say the personal story instances, gliding was still not implemented (and isn't to this day) because the personal story wasn't ready for them, and making sure they're useable in those instances is a time where resources could be spent on better things.

Griffons using updrafts and leyline gliding is not only a matter of balance (aka making sure one thing isn't extremely supreme to the other), but also a matter of how resources could be better spent elsewhere than making griffons able to use updrafts.

There's also the third matter of completely separating the two expansions mastery-wise, and this is one of those ways.

You may not see those as reasons, but they are, objectively, reasons and things to be concerned about by a good developer. The fact that arenanet didnt do this despite making griffons like gliders, up to and including allowing them to be mounted in mid air on the first tier of their mastery, means they kept the competing nature of gliding and griffons in mind, and intentionally made sure griffons weren't overpowered, a term that is not exclusive to combat. It's also exactly the reason why mounts can't be unmounted in mid air, because jumping high on a springer and gliding or mounting on a griffon from that higher point in the air would be overpowered, and they didn't include it as such)

[Fallesafe.5932]

@conradpedalo.5381 said:Can we please have a certain feathered and/or hover like mounts use updrafts??

Ok, then give me back the 30-something mastery points I spent on gliding.

[Ohoni.6057]

@castlemanic.3198 said:

@OGDeadHead.8326 said:Of course griffins should be able to use updrafts, I see no reason why they shouldn't. Ppl speaking against this reminds me a great deal to the people speaking against gliding in core Tyria. Thank god Anet doesn't listen to these reactionary elements. What's it to you anyway? I use gliding as well as my griffin.

A small, tiny, insignificant thing called

balance

, you know, like the kind that's used to make sure one class or build isn't totally supreme in all aspects of the game?

Agreed, although I do think that in pure balance terms it would be ok for Griffons to use Updrafts and Leylines, only IF you have the HoT masteries for it, but I can see how that might be complicated on the developer's end, and even if they could do it, I would prefer to just be able to air-dismount a Griffon and then air-re-mount.

[Player.9621]

you cant beat the stealth landing on glidersits clutch for dropping into enemy infested areas

[OGDeadHead.8326]

I'm only talking about updrafts, imho leylines is something different. Gliders have their own advantages anyway like stealth and special abilities on certain maps, and if we leave leylines out of the request (it wasn't what the OP requested anyway), they have that advantage as well. How's that for balance for you? Oh, and with the exception of time put into it, they're free.

Updrafts in my mind are just that, a motion in the wind blowing upwards, something both birds and paragliders can take advantage of.Again, being able to utilize updrafts with griffons is just natural and logical, and I'm sure we'll get it soon enough.

@Fallesafe.5932 said:

@conradpedalo.5381 said:Can we please have a certain feathered and/or hover like mounts use updrafts??

Ok, then give me back the 30-something mastery points I spent on gliding.

Rofl! If I could I would if that would make you happier. What are you going to use the points for instead?

[Theocraft.6053]

@Ohoni.6057 said:I would say this, no to Griffins using updrafts, however, once you unlock the ability to have the Griffin catch you mid-air, you should also get the ability to dismount from the Griffin in the air. This would allow you to Griffon, dismount and glide into an updraft, then remount the Griffin. It would, of course, require both PoF and HoT.

I actually like that very much, although I am not sure if this would not give us a bit too much of freedom

Alternatively, ANet may invent new kind of masteries that requires combination of HoT and PoF points since they are so many of them, and that would be griffons using updrafts.

[conradpedalo.5381]

Shatterer (a core Tyria event) grants AP for gliding (HoT mastery) & is needed for the backpiece. I don't see using updrafts as unbalanced if the ONLY benefit is more fun soaring thru the sky.