Yet another Mirage thread

[Engal.6359]

A large part of of IH value is clone uptime. Condi mirages dont even realize this, but if you play power shatter you quickly that lost of classes air cleave your clones and you can't do any large shatters. That's what IH should be doing, not spamming cancer.

Overall these changes look great, would love to see them implemented, except the gs rework, dont see any problems and they would totally scew it up at first.

[apharma.3741]

The problem with mirage is mirage cloak and it's existence, it nullifies balancing by cast time as you can effectively use your defence without interrupting it.

One of the problems with Chrono was always continuum split, likewise it in many ways nullified balance by cool down.

Are we seeing a pattern here? When you implement mechanics that circumvent balancing principles you create really obnoxious elite specs and they tend to be on mesmer because....who knows.

What mirage needs is taking back to the drawing board entirely. Wait not quite, mesmer as a concept needs taking back to the drawing board entirely, clones die to stray farts unless spammed in enough quantity that they and phantasms become a massive visual clutter making the whole thing annoying for people to fight in this low effort, low skill floor spam fiesta that the game has become. It's not a tenable class in it's current iteration, don't get me wrong I like the idea but it doesn't feel fun to play with (certainly without IP) or against for most people.

Core principles of mesmer identity:Boon manipulation - removal, giving, stealing.Trickster - Stealth/detarget.Budget Guardian in support - smaller area usually, stability, no aegis, good reflect and cleanses.Confusion damage - punishes skill spam but torment should be removed almost entirely.Interrupts - Always had a large amount of interrupt traits and CC for interrupting.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@apharma.3741 said:The problem with mirage is mirage cloak and it's existence, it nullifies balancing by cast time as you can effectively use your defence without interrupting it.

One of the problems with Chrono was always continuum split, likewise it in many ways nullified balance by cool down.

Are we seeing a pattern here? When you implement mechanics that circumvent balancing principles you create really obnoxious elite specs and they tend to be on mesmer because....who knows.

What mirage needs is taking back to the drawing board entirely. Wait not quite, mesmer as a concept needs taking back to the drawing board entirely, clones die to stray farts unless spammed in enough quantity that they and phantasms become a massive visual clutter making the whole thing annoying for people to fight in this low effort, low skill floor spam fiesta that the game has become. It's not a tenable class in it's current iteration, don't get me wrong I like the idea but it doesn't feel fun to play with (certainly without IP) or against for most people.

Core principles of mesmer identity:Boon manipulation - removal, giving, stealing.Trickster - Stealth/detarget.Budget Guardian in support - smaller area usually, stability, no aegis, good reflect and cleanses.Confusion damage - punishes skill spam but torment should be removed almost entirely.Interrupts - Always had a large amount of interrupt traits and CC for interrupting.

Yeah than they try and balance around the problematic issue causing the spec to remain OP in regards to that mechanic but gutted in all other areas around it ruining the spec in a variety of ways.

[praqtos.9035]

@apharma.3741 said:tldr: mirage and chrono need a complete reworks, preferably from 0. But that probably will never happen .All I can do is suggest them to solve the problem they made with IH and condition mirage.Chrono never needed CS to begin with but this and chronophantasma led to CORE mesmer butchering right and left harming all builds, likewise their attemps to nerf mirage through nerfing core and skills that never been an issue for solid 5+ years.

[apharma.3741]

@praqtos.9035 said:

@apharma.3741 said:tldr: mirage and chrono need a complete reworks, preferably from 0. But that probably will never happen .All I can do is suggest them to solve the problem they made with IH and condition mirage.Chrono never needed CS to begin with but this and chronophantasma led to CORE mesmer butchering right and left harming all builds, likewise their attemps to nerf mirage through nerfing core and skills that never been an issue for solid 5+ years.

No I'm saying the whole class needs reworking from core to elites in terms of class mechanic and skills with a clear design philosophy and purpose as I outlined above even if not everyone agrees on the principles. Illusions have never been fun to play with on the mesmer side and it's becoming very apparent that the attention span and capacity to learn of the current GW2 playerbase is rapidly dipping below secondary education so it should be reworked.

[praqtos.9035]

@apharma.3741 said:

@praqtos.9035 said:

@apharma.3741 said:tldr: mirage and chrono need a complete reworks, preferably from 0. But that probably will never happen .All I can do is suggest them to solve the problem they made with IH and condition mirage.Chrono never needed CS to begin with but this and chronophantasma led to CORE mesmer butchering right and left harming all builds, likewise their attemps to nerf mirage through nerfing core and skills that never been an issue for solid 5+ years.

No I'm saying the whole class needs reworking from core to elites in terms of class mechanic and skills with a clear design philosophy and purpose as I outlined above even if not everyone agrees on the principles. Illusions have never been fun to play with on the mesmer side and it's becoming very apparent that the attention span and capacity to learn of the current GW2 playerbase is rapidly dipping below secondary education so it should be reworked.As I said "probalby will never happen", but good luck convincing them

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

laughs in their non meta, non IH DPS build

[praqtos.9035]

@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:laughs in their non meta, non IH DPS build

Are you top10 with it? (I say this because stronlo plays DH and jumps in and out from top10 rn)You can play whatever, doesnt mean its good ;)

[Itz Jay.8941]

@Widmo.3186 said:

@praqtos.9035 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:good idea, wont happen. devs prolly gonna gut some more core traits or weapons and call it a day, or somehow manage to make shatters even worse ( how can you even nerf f2? its literarly just 1 stack of confusion xd )They nerfed F1 shatters damage by 15% with undocumented change.Anet logic is something that I will never understand.Why never listen to people who play the class. Why not even trying to understand what is the reason of all this mess. Why they trashed core many times(always to bring X spec in line instead of DIRECT NERF TO THE ELITE SPEC), realized it did nothing and then nerf elite spec. All this nerfs are just :nolikethis:Chrono was just straight deleted and left dead for 3+ months or even worse, forever.

They should nerf all or at least most of the core and HoT specs to show PoF supremacy and ensure ppl buy that expansion....wait a second....PS: Not bad Mirage rework suggestions

Well some of them are from blizzard after all, learn from the best they say

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

@praqtos.9035 said:

@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:

laughs in their non meta, non IH DPS build

Are you top10 with it? (I say this because stronlo plays DH and jumps in and out from top10 rn)You can play whatever, doesnt mean its good ;)

Top 10, nah. I do ranked when I do PvP, however I don't play PvP nearly as much as I used to (moved to WvW as a main game mode). When I do both ranked and unranked (more interesting fights in unranked as I find more of a spread of builds), only class that typically gets me more often than not is Holo. Other classes my k/d ratio is in my favor (maybe due to the fact I dont run non meta...who knows?) I have some close fights with some of the less spammy Scourges (the ones that know what they are doing) as well as those sword spamming teleport thieves (only class to have more mobility than me....condi ones are harder for me).

[DEATHsCLAW.1978]

Mirage would probably do perfectly fine even if the clones didn't use an ambush attack at all..

[praqtos.9035]

@"DEATHsCLAW.1978" said:Mirage would probably do perfectly fine even if the clones didn't use an ambush attack at all..Lets delete all grandmasters from all classes or even better - all traits. The only thing they would need to "balance" would be skills and utilities ! :)

[Leonidrex.5649]

@DEATHsCLAW.1978 said:Mirage would probably do perfectly fine even if the clones didn't use an ambush attack at all..

BIG lol, ambush is why you go mirage in the ffirst place, if you think people go mirage to get regeneration and dodge while casting thne you are wrong lol.

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@DEATHsCLAW.1978 said:Mirage would probably do perfectly fine even if the clones didn't use an ambush attack at all..

BIG lol, ambush is why you go mirage in the ffirst place, if you think people go mirage to get regeneration and dodge while casting thne you are wrong lol.

Dodge while casting is what drew me to it as its a cool unique mechanic...the ambush was just a...fun bonus

[praqtos.9035]

@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@DEATHsCLAW.1978 said:Mirage would probably do perfectly fine even if the clones didn't use an ambush attack at all..

BIG lol, ambush is why you go mirage in the ffirst place, if you think people go mirage to get regeneration and dodge while casting thne you are wrong lol.

Dodge while casting is what drew me to it as its a cool unique mechanic...the ambush was just a...fun bonusMirge feels pretty empty on its own and doesnt add anything to the class, but ambushes does, the ability to evade for 0.75s alone wont be any better, I'd argue,way worse than 3rd core traitline

[DEATHsCLAW.1978]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@DEATHsCLAW.1978 said:Mirage would probably do perfectly fine even if the clones didn't use an ambush attack at all..

BIG lol, ambush is why you go mirage in the ffirst place, if you think people go mirage to get regeneration and dodge while casting thne you are wrong lol.

I didn't say get rid of ambushes! if only the mirage used them they would be perfectly fine..

just the fact that all of a sudden mirage can cast 4 ambush attacks (mirage &3clones) adds an absurd amount of damage WHILE dodging. that isnt healthy for the game in my opinion

[praqtos.9035]

@DEATHsCLAW.1978 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@DEATHsCLAW.1978 said:Mirage would probably do perfectly fine even if the clones didn't use an ambush attack at all..

BIG lol, ambush is why you go mirage in the ffirst place, if you think people go mirage to get regeneration and dodge while casting thne you are wrong lol.

I didn't say get rid of ambushes! if only the mirage used them they would be perfectly fine..

just the fact that all of a sudden mirage can cast 4 ambush attacks (mirage &3clones) adds an absurd amount of damage WHILE dodging. that isnt healthy for the game in my opinionDid you read my first message... ? Are you?