*Suggestion* Next Elite Specialization: Assassin - GS Thief

[Amasoful.2690]

Please refer to my new thread with a revision of the suggestion with a better name for the spec at this link

This thread can be put to sleep now.

[caveman.5840]

i would like to see a specialization that takes advantage of our unique single weapon sets, we are the only class to get a unique skill when using a single sword dagger or pistol

call it the weapon specialist or something and when using a single weapon u get 3 new skills in the # 3 , 4 and 5 slotand if u want to take it one step further allow access to all other specialization weapon sets so the thief could truly be a weapons master

[Volrath.1473]

Dual sword os the way to go bro

[tongpo.3184]

Pretty sure I have never seen an assassin wielding a great sword...

[tongpo.3184]

@Volrath.1473 said:Dual sword os the way to go bro

I was thinking of off-hand sword for thief too. Duelist Epec - high single target dps, tanky support type class.

[caveman.5840]

o plz we do not need a tanky support thief ,, we just end up with junk like venom share

[AegisRunestone.8672]

@tongpo.3184 said:Pretty sure I have never seen an assassin wielding a great sword...

You have not played AC: Brotherhood then. Heck, even AC2 has Ezio wielding large weapons like great axes and two-handed swords.

I had a similar spec idea with GS, but I called the spec "Ninja" and their utilities/elite are justus. Though, your abilities seem similar to a what a Ninja would do (shadowsteps, teleports). I didn't have any idea for traits. The idea was the Ninja's attacks were slower, and hit harder, but the overall movement of the actual Ninja was fast (because when do you see a slow ninja? Honestly?).

I didn't know if to use elemental justus, trap justus, or whatever.

For a full melee Assassin, I feel our only option is off-hand sword (even though, Assassin to me is d/d, but we already have d/d). I feel like an Assassin would focus more on stealth murdering than getting in the face of their opponent. Granted, thieves tend to excel at that already, but perhaps it would be a build which enhances stealth and killing further? Deadeye basically does that, but at range. However, an off-hand sword spec might manage to feel different enough from Deadeye to exist.

Anyway, to me, an Assassin is someone who gets the jump on their target quietly; not in their face.

[Doctor Hide.6345]

I would rather have a GS instead of another sword since GS are one of the few melee weapons I actually like in this game. Of course if they did give us sword off-hand, I could transmute the holosmith light saber on both swords with the hope they allow us to dye it; allowing me to become a Dark Jedi.

[Zero Day.2594]

@tongpo.3184 said:Pretty sure I have never seen an assassin wielding a great sword...

Pretty damn sure, assassins are just killers... That typically take out high profile targets (be it political or religious or whatever other domains).How and with what they go about it, is left up to them. And if a great sword is suited for the job, or nothing else is around, chances are, they will use it.Not too sure, if it's somewhere forbidden for them to use a great sword, or really any other weapon.

[knyy.6427]

I like this idea with charging and gs. I had similar ideas for the thief (bladedancer, nightbringer).

While offhand sword seems nice because of dual sword, it will be pretty bad in pve endgame, cause the sword AA is quite bad. And because of how the initiative system works on thief, we do AA the most. We are in a rather bad spot in pve endgame, so I really wanna get a juicy power spec with meta DPS. So please GS all the way!

[Ghareeb.9501]

Yes I've been wanting GS for thief too. Would be epic.

[Zoltar MacRoth.7146]

I have a daredevil decked out to look like an AC assassin and, though it's certainly possible for an assassin to use a greatsword, it just seems so... awkward in a semi-realistic setting. /shrug

Still, it could work if it were treated more like anime, where excessively bulky weapons are handled as if they were as light as a feather. I can see my anime-themed thief wielding a huge sword, flash-stepping past a foe, then standing with his back to the enemy as the enemy slowly realises he's been sliced in half and falls to the ground. Big hair. We're going to need big spiky hair.

I'd love a thief spec that did something new. For example, replacing stealth with camouflage - where you pick a target and look like them for the duration of the stealth. Tricky to implement though - what if somebody tried to impersonate a sand eel?Or, being able to take a hostage, but again, tricky to implement.

[Doctor Hide.6345]

@Zoltar MacRoth.7146 said:I have a daredevil decked out to look like an AC assassin and, though it's certainly possible for an assassin to use a greatsword, it just seems so... awkward in a semi-realistic setting. /shrug

Still, it could work if it were treated more like anime, where excessively bulky weapons are handled as if they were as light as a feather. I can see my anime-themed thief wielding a huge sword, flash-stepping past a foe, then standing with his back to the enemy as the enemy slowly realises he's been sliced in half and falls to the ground. Big hair. We're going to need big spiky hair.

I'd love a thief spec that did something new. For example, replacing stealth with camouflage - where you pick a target and look like them for the duration of the stealth. Tricky to implement though - what if somebody tried to impersonate a sand eel?Or, being able to take a hostage, but again, tricky to implement.

Have you seen GW2 animations? The game is basically one giant anime with all the flashy skills and animations we use.

[Volrath.1473]

@"Doctor Hide.6345" said:I would rather have a GS instead of another sword since GS are one of the few melee weapons I actually like in this game. Of course if they did give us sword off-hand, I could transmute the holosmith light saber on both swords with the hope they allow us to dye it; allowing me to become a Dark Jedi.

There is no such thing as a "Dark Jedi" either you are a Jedi or a Sith. Just saying xD

[Ktk.5107]

sword off hand would be more interesting because of all the new combinations with all the already existing weapons.

Or axes main hand & off hand, that would be fun.

Axe or mace is the most likely imo, with a spec like bandit or something like this.

[Kahrgan.7401]

@tongpo.3184 said:Pretty sure I have never seen an assassin wielding a great sword...

youve never played an elderscrolls game then!

[Zoltar MacRoth.7146]

@Volrath.1473 said:

@"Doctor Hide.6345" said:I would rather have a GS instead of another sword since GS are one of the few melee weapons I actually like in this game. Of course if they did give us sword off-hand, I could transmute the holosmith light saber on both swords with the hope they allow us to dye it; allowing me to become a Dark Jedi.

There is no such thing as a "Dark Jedi" either you are a Jedi or a Sith. Just saying xD

https://www.quora.com/What-s-the-difference-between-a-Sith-Lord-and-a-Dark-Jedi

[Kichwas.7152]

@Volrath.1473 said:Dual sword os the way to go bro

Yeah. I could see dual sword.

Or off-hand Mace - mugger. The mace would have a 'sap' skill that stuns targets, double duration if done from stealth or from behind as opening move.

But great sword... I don't get it. Especially as an Assassin motif.

For an assassin I'd actually find sword/focus more credible - given the origin of the word assassin.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassins

[Amasoful.2690]

Sword/Sword doesn't fit the charging flavor the spec would have, it also doesn't interest me and i feel i desperately need a proper melee DPS with chunky meaty hits, sword is all about AA, even when used with pistol, Pistol-whip isn't as efficient as AA, so what benefit might we get for having an offhand sword anyway? Also S/S Assassin was nailed perfectly by Revenant, although it does miss the stealth component, but the flavor and feel was spot on..I chose GS specifically to lock the charging mechanic to it, to avoid having to couple the charging mechanic on every weapon a thief can use which would be a bit complicated from a balance stand point and might end up being nerfed to the ground at one point and no one using it, it provides a complete skill set, an offhand weapon will give 2 unique skills + 3 combo skills and that's it, granted it is the same amount of 5 skills on GS, but those 5 you will get all at once, while you can only get 3 skills with an offhand be it focus or offhand mace or axe or sword.Mainhand/offhand axe would probably be better off for a condition build...idk.When i imagined the spec i was thinking exactly as people mentioned up there, that it is like an anime character, slashing through foes, moving fast but hitting slow and really hard, and yeah imaging a SSJ Charr thief doing that!.If people kindly wouldn't drift far away from the basic mechanical suggestion here, i.e GS and skill charging, that would be great!Granted that it is a valid argument that Assassin feels like a more stealthy spec and less of an up-in-your-face spec, maybe the name would have to change for the spec, it's only a suggestion anyway, but you get the point of the post, suggest a name if you find Assassin not fitting much, the only thing equivalent to what i have in mind is Samurai, but that is a real world thing, they use big 2H Katanas and they fight in your face and do move fast and hit precise and hard..Besides guys, the GS skills are up for suggestions still!.PS: Assassin did come from the word "Hashashin", which literally means "People who do weed regularly" and Hashashin is a plural in and as of itself, as "Hashish" is weed in Arabic, and "Hashash" is a guy who does weed regularly, "Hashashin" is plural and the word was morphed through time and different tongues to become Assassin, they were called so as they were under the effects of "Weed" and other herbs/drugs most of the time and were controlled by their operator through the amount of said stuff that he gives them, they even got paid with that at the beginning of it all, until it became a trend of sorts and people worked as professional killers or "Assassins", the weed used to come from what is now called Afghanistan/Pakistan and the areas surrounding them and it was hard to come by back then, so yeah that is the history lesson for you, you can read the wiki for more info, but that is how it all started, and until today the word "Hashash/Hashashin" is being used, but with its literal meaning, which is a guy/people who do weed regularly, and it is an insult as people in the Arab world consider it unethical and the cause of lots of trouble.

[Kichwas.7152]

So basically... you want to replicate warrior on thief.

Charging around the open action is NOT an assassin. That's more a bruiser sort of move. What;s the 'concept' here for a thief that runs around with a gigantic weapon charging headfirst in the open?

It's just so much the wrong weapon for any thief-like archetype. But ESPECIALLY for an Assassin - which at it's core is a blend of 'shadowy' and 'mystical'.

Assassins (Arabic: ٱلْحَشَّاشِين‎‎ al-Ḥashāshīn) is the term used to refer to a group of individuals who were active during the medieval period known as Nizari Ismailis. Often described as a secret order led by a mysterious "Old Man of the Mountain", the Nizari Ismailis were a sect that formed in the late 11th century from a split within Ismailism – a branch of Shia Islam.

The Nizaris posed a strategic threat to Sunni Seljuq authority by capturing and inhabiting several mountain fortresses throughout Persia and later Syria, under the leadership of Hassan-i Sabbah. Asymmetric warfare, psychological warfare, and surgical strikes were often an employed tactic of the assassins, drawing their opponents into submission rather than risk killing them.[1]

While "Assassins" typically refers to the entire sect, only a group of acolytes known as the fida'i actually engaged in conflict. Lacking their own army, the Nizari relied on these warriors to carry out espionage and assassinations of key enemy figures, and over the course of 300 years successfully killed two caliphs, and many viziers, sultans, and Crusader leaders.[2]

Under leadership of Imam Rukn-ud-Din Khurshah, the Nizari state declined internally, and was eventually destroyed as the Imam surrendered the castles to the invading Mongols. Sources on the history and thought of the Ismailis in this period are therefore lacking and the majority extant are written by their detractors. Long after their near-eradication, mentions of Assassins were preserved within European sources – such as the writings of Marco Polo – where they are depicted as trained killers, responsible for the systematic elimination of opposing figures. The word "assassin" has been used ever since to describe a hired or professional killer, leading to the related term "assassination", which denotes any action involving murder of a high-profile target for political reasons.

The Nizari were acknowledged and feared by the Crusaders. The stories of the Assassins were further embellished by Marco Polo. European orientalist historians in the 19th century – such as Joseph von Hammer-Purgstall – also referred to the Nizari in their works and tended to write about the Nizari based on accounts by medieval Sunni Arab and Persian authors.

Wikipedia also partly debunks the "hashish" urban legend for the origin of the word:

Another modern author, Edward Burman, states that:

Many scholars have argued, and demonstrated convincingly, that the attribution of the epithet "hashish eaters" or "hashish takers" is a misnomer derived from enemies of the Isma'ilis and was never used by Muslim chroniclers or sources. It was therefore used in a pejorative sense of "enemies" or "disreputable people". This sense of the term survived into modern times with the common Egyptian usage of the term Hashasheen in the 1930s to mean simply "noisy or riotous". It is unlikely that the austere Hassan-i Sabbah indulged personally in drug taking ... there is no mention of that drug hashish in connection with the Persian Assassins – especially in the library of Alamut ("the secret archives").[12]

But my real issue here is... this is just the wrong word for a greatsword WARRIOR.

[Amasoful.2690]

@Kichwas.7152 said:So basically... you want to replicate warrior on thief.

Charging around the open action is NOT an assassin. That's more a bruiser sort of move. What;s the 'concept' here for a thief that runs around with a gigantic weapon charging headfirst in the open?

It's just so much the wrong weapon for any thief-like archetype. But ESPECIALLY for an Assassin - which at it's core is a blend of 'shadowy' and 'mystical'.

Assassins (Arabic: ٱلْحَشَّاشِين‎‎ al-Ḥashāshīn) is the term used to refer to a group of individuals who were active during the medieval period known as Nizari Ismailis. Often described as a secret order led by a mysterious "Old Man of the Mountain", the Nizari Ismailis were a sect that formed in the late 11th century from a split within Ismailism – a branch of Shia Islam.

The Nizaris posed a strategic threat to Sunni Seljuq authority by capturing and inhabiting several mountain fortresses throughout Persia and later Syria, under the leadership of Hassan-i Sabbah. Asymmetric warfare, psychological warfare, and surgical strikes were often an employed tactic of the assassins, drawing their opponents into submission rather than risk killing them.[1]

While "Assassins" typically refers to the entire sect, only a group of acolytes known as the fida'i actually engaged in conflict. Lacking their own army, the Nizari relied on these warriors to carry out espionage and assassinations of key enemy figures, and over the course of 300 years successfully killed two caliphs, and many viziers, sultans, and Crusader leaders.[2]

Under leadership of Imam Rukn-ud-Din Khurshah, the Nizari state declined internally, and was eventually destroyed as the Imam surrendered the castles to the invading Mongols. Sources on the history and thought of the Ismailis in this period are therefore lacking and the majority extant are written by their detractors. Long after their near-eradication, mentions of Assassins were preserved within European sources – such as the writings of Marco Polo – where they are depicted as trained killers, responsible for the systematic elimination of opposing figures. The word "assassin" has been used ever since to describe a hired or professional killer, leading to the related term "assassination", which denotes any action involving murder of a high-profile target for political reasons.

The Nizari were acknowledged and feared by the Crusaders. The stories of the Assassins were further embellished by Marco Polo. European orientalist historians in the 19th century – such as Joseph von Hammer-Purgstall – also referred to the Nizari in their works and tended to write about the Nizari based on accounts by medieval Sunni Arab and Persian authors.

Wikipedia also partly debunks the "hashish" urban legend for the origin of the word:

Another modern author, Edward Burman, states that:

Many scholars have argued, and demonstrated convincingly, that the attribution of the epithet "hashish eaters" or "hashish takers" is a misnomer derived from enemies of the Isma'ilis and was never used by Muslim chroniclers or sources. It was therefore used in a pejorative sense of "enemies" or "disreputable people". This sense of the term survived into modern times with the common Egyptian usage of the term Hashasheen in the 1930s to mean simply "noisy or riotous". It is unlikely that the austere Hassan-i Sabbah indulged personally in drug taking ... there is no mention of that drug hashish in connection with the Persian Assassins – especially in the library of Alamut ("the secret archives").[12]

But my real issue here is... this is just the wrong word for a greatsword WARRIOR.

@Kichwas.7152 said:So basically... you want to replicate warrior on thief.

Charging around the open action is NOT an assassin. That's more a bruiser sort of move. What;s the 'concept' here for a thief that runs around with a gigantic weapon charging headfirst in the open?

It's just so much the wrong weapon for any thief-like archetype. But ESPECIALLY for an Assassin - which at it's core is a blend of 'shadowy' and 'mystical'.

Assassins (Arabic: ٱلْحَشَّاشِين‎‎ al-Ḥashāshīn) is the term used to refer to a group of individuals who were active during the medieval period known as Nizari Ismailis. Often described as a secret order led by a mysterious "Old Man of the Mountain", the Nizari Ismailis were a sect that formed in the late 11th century from a split within Ismailism – a branch of Shia Islam.

The Nizaris posed a strategic threat to Sunni Seljuq authority by capturing and inhabiting several mountain fortresses throughout Persia and later Syria, under the leadership of Hassan-i Sabbah. Asymmetric warfare, psychological warfare, and surgical strikes were often an employed tactic of the assassins, drawing their opponents into submission rather than risk killing them.[1]

While "Assassins" typically refers to the entire sect, only a group of acolytes known as the fida'i actually engaged in conflict. Lacking their own army, the Nizari relied on these warriors to carry out espionage and assassinations of key enemy figures, and over the course of 300 years successfully killed two caliphs, and many viziers, sultans, and Crusader leaders.[2]

Under leadership of Imam Rukn-ud-Din Khurshah, the Nizari state declined internally, and was eventually destroyed as the Imam surrendered the castles to the invading Mongols. Sources on the history and thought of the Ismailis in this period are therefore lacking and the majority extant are written by their detractors. Long after their near-eradication, mentions of Assassins were preserved within European sources – such as the writings of Marco Polo – where they are depicted as trained killers, responsible for the systematic elimination of opposing figures. The word "assassin" has been used ever since to describe a hired or professional killer, leading to the related term "assassination", which denotes any action involving murder of a high-profile target for political reasons.

The Nizari were acknowledged and feared by the Crusaders. The stories of the Assassins were further embellished by Marco Polo. European orientalist historians in the 19th century – such as Joseph von Hammer-Purgstall – also referred to the Nizari in their works and tended to write about the Nizari based on accounts by medieval Sunni Arab and Persian authors.

Wikipedia also partly debunks the "hashish" urban legend for the origin of the word:

Another modern author, Edward Burman, states that:

Many scholars have argued, and demonstrated convincingly, that the attribution of the epithet "hashish eaters" or "hashish takers" is a misnomer derived from enemies of the Isma'ilis and was never used by Muslim chroniclers or sources. It was therefore used in a pejorative sense of "enemies" or "disreputable people". This sense of the term survived into modern times with the common Egyptian usage of the term Hashasheen in the 1930s to mean simply "noisy or riotous". It is unlikely that the austere Hassan-i Sabbah indulged personally in drug taking ... there is no mention of that drug hashish in connection with the Persian Assassins – especially in the library of Alamut ("the secret archives").[12]

But my real issue here is... this is just the wrong word for a greatsword WARRIOR.

Yeah, i mentioned that the argument for Assassin doesn't fit the mechanics that i am suggesting here is valid in a sense, for the part of wanting to replicate warrior on thief, well eventually all classes will be able to wield all weapons, and effectively some skills will be reused, replicating a GS warrior on thief isn't what i am trying to do, and trust me if greatsword or hammer weren't used on warrior i would've suggested those instead of putting it here, what i am suggesting here also fits much better on Revenant, and greatsword isn't used by them so i will post the idea there soon, it is just a fun aspect to play with, as when i though to implement the charging mechanic, i thought it is best used with initiative charging the skills, don't get me wrong but, yeah scrap the name Assassin and instead use say "Rogue" maybe and it would sit much nicer, the spec that goes Rogue to the basic concepts of thief that are stealth and what not, going rogue from the traditional?Same idea btw for Deadeye, why was it credited to thief when it would've been also fitting for long range rifle.I am not trying to defend my point of view, it IS flawed, specifically so when i went out of my way to disable stealth being useful at all for the spec and that is for the fear of people simply stealthing, charging a big hit and hitting from stealth then re-stealthing and so on but all in all and in the end, i want to see a greatsword on thief, with big meaty hits, instead of the boring 1 1 1 gameplay with sword, that's all, maybe the Devs if they like the basic concept they'd implement it with stealth also or with a different twist, idk, it is only a suggestion!

[CharterforGw.3149]

the would have to do some sort of magical stuff with the greatsword to make it work, very similar to how the greatsword works for the mesmer, or the axe works for the necromancer. Although for a thief it would be quite difficult.

I personally really enjoy the summoning of thieves, with the ambush skill and elite skill. maybe a specialization that focuses on "support" in the form of these thieves would be quite interesting, they would have to remark the original skils to not have them being weak, or overpowered.

No matter what they decide, it will be a hard decision for them to make. except for engineers, they still have a ton of weapons that are viable for them to use.

[Amasoful.2690]

I posted the idea in the Revenant subforums with changes to fit it better and included the GS skills as well, if anyone is interested, here is a link to my post.

[tongpo.3184]

@Zero Day.2594 said:

@tongpo.3184 said:Pretty sure I have never seen an assassin wielding a great sword...

Pretty kitten sure, assassins are just killers... That typically take out high profile targets (be it political or religious or whatever other domains).How and with what they go about it, is left up to them. And if a great sword is suited for the job, or nothing else is around, chances are, they will use it.Not too sure, if it's somewhere forbidden for them to use a great sword, or really any other weapon.

Assassins are quick and use stealth. Yes, they kill, but they do it without getting caught. Hard to be quick and hard to go unnoticed while dragging around a giant sword.

How they go about it? Well, thats usually with poison, traps, darts, etc. Warriors jump across a crowd with a giant sword aiming for the head. When assassins kill, no one even notices until its too late.

I am not saying forbidden, just that its not their prefered method. If an assassin gets caught and is forced to fight head on, then sure - whatever means. But then, that would be a pretty terrible assassin that no one would ever hire.

[knyy.6427]

@tongpo.3184 said:

@Zero Day.2594 said:

@tongpo.3184 said:Pretty sure I have never seen an assassin wielding a great sword...

Pretty kitten sure, assassins are just killers... That typically take out high profile targets (be it political or religious or whatever other domains).How and with what they go about it, is left up to them. And if a great sword is suited for the job, or nothing else is around, chances are, they will use it.Not too sure, if it's somewhere forbidden for them to use a great sword, or really any other weapon.

Assassins are quick and use stealth. Yes, they kill, but they do it without getting caught. Hard to be quick and hard to go unnoticed while dragging around a giant sword.

How they go about it? Well, thats usually with poison, traps, darts, etc. Warriors jump across a crowd with a giant sword aiming for the head. When assassins kill, no one even notices until its too late.

I am not saying forbidden, just that its not their prefered method. If an assassin gets caught and is forced to fight head on, then sure - whatever means. But then, that would be a pretty terrible assassin that no one would ever hire.

I don't see any problem. Just take his ideas and call or something else then. The name itself is not that important, just the mechanics and gameplay of it's design.

If you have a good elite spec design, you can choose which flair you wanna give the spec. You wanna go more dark and shadow? Call all skills like that and have the effect be more darkish, or go all bladedancer and have the effect be more iron/silver and show some blades whatsoever. It is possible to change that.