Updates for Brand-New Players

[blackheartgary.8605]

So... a couple of thoughts from today's update, as both someone who actively mentors new players as well as someone interested in obtaining the achievements. because the overhwelming majority of my characters already have 100% completed central Tyria, i knew that in order to accomplish any of those achievements on my own, i would have to create a new character. I did so, and after the opening sequence, landed in queensdale and instantly put up the mentor tag. i announced what i was doing, invited new players to come along, and even streamed the runthrough in case others wanted to watch.the first thing i noticed, was that people were asking where the achievements were located. when i explained they would be accessible to view in the hero panel, under achievements>general>tutorial, i got a few people asking "well how do i access the hero panel?" after answering that question, and beginning the process in queensdale, people began asking other questions. "what is karma, and why is it important?" "will the events spawn again?' "why does waypoints cost?" "what exactly is reknown?'then another batch of questions, as skills unlocked and items were gained. "what do i do with these items?" "when can i wield a second weapon?' "where can i get a different weapon to use?" "how do you get to X vista?"the questions continued, and, as i progressed along with the group of people that came along for the ride, i answered each and every one of them, multiple times. finally, we got to the part where you needed to craft some food using the chef profession. and one question came out constantly:"wouldn't it be smarter to teach us how to make our own gear and apply the achievement to making our first gear?"While I did take the time to explain how crafting worked in the other crafting disciplines(jobs)(professions), i began to wonder that question myself.I love the idea of the achievements... before anyone goes there and thinks this is a salty person being salty(and there will be)However, i look at it from the perspective of a new player, as it is a new player experience update. and overall, this is what i discovered.

1. while the achievements pop up on your window, nothing shows you where you can find them on the hero panel... IE nothing directs a new player to them.
2. while the emphasis here seems to present the new player with some of the features of the game and encourages exploration, some fundementals are missing, such as combo fields, crowd control techniques, applying boons, reviving other players, healing each other, encouraging teamwork to accomplish X, and the option to use a different weapon.
3. the collection that must be done by someone at or below level 10 ends up(through xp boosters and the like, including swapping to other starter zones) being able to accomplish past level 10, while the description clearly states level 10 or below.
4. the entire achievement line can be accomplished before a character reaches level 20, including the exploration of other maps, but aside from being given a teleportation scroll, there is no incentive or actual need for a new player to do so if they are not interested in completing the achievements.
5. while crafting x amount of consumables demonstrates crafting and consumables, there is nothing explaining to a new player how to actually make said food other than the crafting panel and a brief explanation by the crafting vendor. concurrently, having a player craft their first level 10 weapon or armor is a lot easier to explain and easier to accomplish as the materials can be acquired directly from the starting zones themselves.
6. during the exploration phase, hero points are bypassed as a majority of new players will not have access to them until level 11. however, in order to get from 1 point to another, you have to go right past the very hero point you cannot acquire. this one is minor, but expected.
7. after listening to questions by new players entering guild wars 2, the major questions about the game and what to do are not answered effectively unless someone from the community at large is available to answer them.

In short... I think what could really help the process along, would be actual usage of the mentor tag in a mentor capacity by players willing to teach those willing to learn. there's a lot of eager people out there actually willing to learn to play this game, contrary to the opinions of others, and i humbly ask my fellow mentors to give a hand when you can in the process. that said... IMHO... the tutorial achievements are a great idea and a great start... but definately need a bit of fine tuning. Keep up the great work, Anet!

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

I've found that the 'L10' requirement is met by 'effective' level (you are down-leveled to match the area) rather than true level.
(That probably would have been confusing to explain to a new player.)

Also, don't forget; there is also a Tutorial in the Level-Up process that explains many features of the game.
Such as: Hero Panel, Stat increases at L2Inventory, PvP at L3Banking, PoIs at L4Fine Equipment at L6Gathering at L9Conditions, Dailies at L13

And many more between and furthers than those above. Of course, if players just click past them, there's not a lot to be done.

[kenny.7236]

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:I've found that the 'L10' requirement is met by 'effective' level (you are down-leveled to match the area) rather than true level.

(That probably would have been confusing to explain to a new player.)

Also, don't forget; there is also a Tutorial in the Level-Up process that explains many features of the game.

Such as: Hero Panel, Stat increases at L2Inventory, PvP at L3Banking, PoIs at L4Fine Equipment at L6Gathering at L9Conditions, Dailies at L13

And many more between and furthers than those above. Of course, if players just click past them, there's not a lot to be done.

Thanks for this info.

I managed to complete Beginner Experience Collection, Tutorial Mastery & a few other achievements.

Just remember to equip the armor.

[blackheartgary.8605]

@"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:I've found that the 'L10' requirement is met by 'effective' level (you are down-leveled to match the area) rather than true level.

(That probably would have been confusing to explain to a new player.)

Also, don't forget; there is also a Tutorial in the Level-Up process that explains many features of the game.

Such as: Hero Panel, Stat increases at L2Inventory, PvP at L3Banking, PoIs at L4Fine Equipment at L6Gathering at L9Conditions, Dailies at L13

And many more between and furthers than those above. Of course, if players just click past them, there's not a lot to be done.

you make a valid point here. however i did manage to watch someone reach level 11 before acquiring the chest piece and was not downleveled. that said... explaining level scaling is not as difficult to explain as crafting is, surprisingly.

As for the level up process and upcoming rewards each time someone levels up... unless you deliberately examine what each of those unlocks are when the window pops up, it is more likely that yes, a player would quickly view what's upcoming, have more questions... but just "tick the box" and move forward.to expand this... would be a little easier. as each milestone unlocks, there could be some obtusely large arrow directing the player to open the windows, look at the things, or explain what the unlocks actually are. now it doesn't have to be a constant thing... stopping at, say, level 10, and only popping up when a newer type of mechanic or game mode unlocks.kind of like how when each dungeon unlocks you get a mail with a "show me" button.these are just a few thoughts.

[Donari.5237]

Veteran here. I ran a new character through a lot of the achieves yesterday and given the above comments that being over level ten won't stop the boxes dropping (I foolishly tomed up to 9 after a bit so I could then ding 10, since using a leveling scroll in the tutorial instance did not ding the "hit level 10" achieve even once I emerged into Queensdale on the keyrunner I made first), I'll use her to work on the remaining exploration.

The major point of confusion for me lay in the food crafting. It said make consumable food. I have a max chef so I had a lot of low end recipes available. It seemed very random as to whether making something would trigger credit towards the five items I needed to craft. I focused on consumables that gave benefits, from snacks and meals. Duplicating the same thing didn't work well, things like Bjorni's Rabbit Snacks seemed useless. I churned through a number of mats before it finally said I'd gotten all five things made.

Maybe it is easier for a truly new character and they'll only have chef recipes that count? I hope so, because as it stands this is a very opaque and frustrating achieve even for a patient veteran who understands the crafting system very well.

[thepenmonster.3621]

@Donari.5237 said:It seemed very random as to whether making something would trigger credit...

The newish toon (a lvl8 key bot) I was using to get the achievements started Chef in DR and it didn't pop. I tried it on a completely new toon at the outdoors crafting stalls at Mabon Market and then I got them.

The new achievement line seems designed for the F2P crowd rather than us. I'm assuming the chef ones only pop off in the outdoor crafting spots because a F2P player doesn't get access to the cities immediately. But I could be wrong because I only did it the once...

[Loosmaster.8263]

@kharmin.7683 said:

@"Andovar Edoras.2143" said:

The game should definitely teach new players about the importance of the CC defiance bar.I get this, but at what point for a "new player" because this mechanic isn't on any of the starter zone critters. I think that it would be better served to have something to teach players about the defiance bar when they are closer in level/story to that mechanic; otherwise, they may forget about it if it is presented too early?

The Awakened Invasion is a good example of starter zone/defiance bar training and particularly which enemy to do it on(Champ).

Also about group effort and focus/timing.

[Donari.5237]

@thepenmonster.3621 said:

@Donari.5237 said:It seemed very random as to whether making something would trigger credit...

The newish toon (a lvl8 key bot) I was using to get the achievements started Chef in DR and it didn't pop. I tried it on a completely new toon at the outdoors crafting stalls at Mabon Market and then I got them.

The new achievement line seems designed for the F2P crowd rather than us. I'm assuming the chef ones only pop off in the outdoor crafting spots because a F2P player doesn't get access to the cities immediately. But I could be wrong because I only did it the once...

They seem to have patched it now, so it's perhaps moot, but I'll note that I was in DR, at the VIP terrace crafting station. Learning chef there worked fine, it was getting credit for crafting five dishes that seemed opaque as to what would and would not progress it.

[t sakacs.7568]

@Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:Hey all,

These changes are not live yet, but coming Very Soon.

WOW! It is amazing that we share the exact same name!

jk; my name is Bob :(

[Lady Kaguya.3208]

augh! I love the new tutorial achievement category--obviously for new players, but it gave me more incentive to re-explore. mad at myself because i made a new character RIGHT before this update for the old school experience (been here since day one). I wish I had held off, because now the character is level 15 and some achievements are moot

I guess....I'll just have to make /another/ new character. what a shame :p

[Donari.5237]

@Lady Kaguya.3208 said:augh! I love the new tutorial achievement category--obviously for new players, but it gave me more incentive to re-explore. mad at myself because i made a new character RIGHT before this update for the old school experience (been here since day one). I wish I had held off, because now the character is level 15 and some achievements are moot

I guess....I'll just have to make /another/ new character. what a shame :p

I think the only moot achieve is dinging 10, Lady K :) The rest don't seem to mind your being above the pay grade as long as you are downleveled to under 10.

[AzureSky.3175]

They advertised these achievements as being available to "veteran adventurers", and then I log in to find out that I have no way to complete them.Is this really working as intended? These are the first achievements ever added to the game that completely lock out players with all maxed out characters.

List of achievements I'll probably never get:

• Tutorial Mastery
• Just Getting Started
• Caledon Forest Novice Explorer
• Metrica Province Novice Explorer
• Plains of Ashford Novice Explorer
• Queensdale Novice Explorer
• Wayfarer Foothills Novice Explorer
• Beginner Experience Collection
• Points of Interest
• Learn Dodging

Sucks to be put at a disadvantage here just because I played too much in the past

[Donari.5237]

@"AzureSky.3175" said:They advertised these achievements as being available to "veteran adventurers", and then I log in to find out that I have no way to complete them.Is this really working as intended? These are the first achievements ever added to the game that completely lock out players with all maxed out characters.

List of achievements I'll probably never get:

• Tutorial Mastery
• Just Getting Started
• Caledon Forest Novice Explorer
• Metrica Province Novice Explorer
• Plains of Ashford Novice Explorer
• Queensdale Novice Explorer
• Wayfarer Foothills Novice Explorer
• Beginner Experience Collection
• Points of Interest
• Learn Dodging

Sucks to be put at a disadvantage here just because I played too much in the past.But I'll just guess that it doesn't affect enough players to ever be reworked. Well, no AP for me then...

The only one of these that a higher level couldn't do was dinging 10 for the first time, since you seem to have to actually roll over to 10 in game. That is, if the higher level hasn't already got the exploration and dodging done. Are you saying you have got 70ish slots, all full with 80s who have all done all the starter maps? If so, you probably have plenty of AP from other sources :)

[AzureSky.3175]

@Donari.5237 said:The only one of these that a higher level couldn't do was dinging 10 for the first time, since you seem to have to actually roll over to 10 in game. That is, if the higher level hasn't already got the exploration and dodging done. Are you saying you have got 70ish slots, all full with 80s who have all done all the starter maps? If so, you probably have plenty of AP from other sources :)

I have 9 characters (one of each profession), all level 80, all with full world completion, all with dodge tutorial done.If I wanted to get these achievements, I'd basically have to pay an entry tax of 800 Gems for a new character slot that I don't even want or need.Can't imagine that that was Anet's intention here.

[Donari.5237]

Fair enough. I'm an altaholic and have built up a lot of empty slots during sales so as to be ready for another slew of elites if we ever get those; I was able to make a disposable alt for this purpose. But I can see how this is distressing to those satisfied with a smaller number of characters who don't want a keyrunner option.

[PsDh.2471]

I frequently encounter individuals with questions about when an event will spawn, or where do I find this NPC and so on. If I don't know the answer I usually answer "Have you checked on wiki?". What follows are them getting annoyed or angry because "I was too lazy to answer their question"...Honestly, people - and the devs too - needs to realize how great a resource wiki is! Correct me if I'm wrong but the only place I see the "You can type /wiki to get to the wiki page" is on the wiki page, not in the game!

Well, this is just my opinion, so take it with a grain of salt ;)

I <3 the new tutorial achievement category, and I hope they continue to expand upon it!

[Lady Kaguya.3208]

@Donari.5237 said:

@Lady Kaguya.3208 said:augh! I love the new tutorial achievement category--obviously for new players, but it gave me more incentive to re-explore. mad at myself because i made a new character RIGHT before this update for the old school experience (been here since day one). I wish I had held off, because now the character is level 15 and some achievements are moot

I guess....I'll just have to make /another/ new character. what a shame :p

I think the only moot achieve is dinging 10, Lady K :) The rest don't seem to mind your being above the pay grade as long as you are downleveled to under 10.

fair (heya btw, Donari)! there were a few others though, such as some heart events and another (can’t recall at this second). i’m just the completionist type, so missing those few will annoy me! ?

real talk though from related: you’re /not/ going to be at any form of disadvantage form this. unlessyou are absolutely starving for the AP (which isn’t a huge amount tbh). i’m super happy that this is tailored for new people. if it’s ‘impossible’ for you to get these achievements, then you honestly really don’t need them. (but of course, as with my own plight for simply wanting to do them all for the sake of completing, that’s valid)

[Algonda Friedenbaum.2930]

@AzureSky.3175 said:

@Donari.5237 said:The only one of these that a higher level couldn't do was dinging 10 for the first time, since you seem to have to actually roll over to 10 in game. That is, if the higher level hasn't already got the exploration and dodging done. Are you saying you have got 70ish slots, all full with 80s who have all done all the starter maps? If so, you probably have plenty of AP from other sources :)

I have 9 characters (one of each profession), all level 80, all with full world completion, all with dodge tutorial done.If I wanted to get these achievements, I'd basically have to pay an entry tax of 800 Gems for a new character slot that I don't even want or need.Can't imagine that that was Anet's intention here.

Yep, it's a little silly. I started with the original release (did the Beta testing also), and have 100% map completion, so I can't go back and 'rediscover' or 'recomplete' the POIs & Hearts. I CAN re-view the vistas, which helps some, but not really. There ought to be some way to get credit for having done this before this particular Mastery came out, especially since it has a direct effect on the Beginner Experience Collection. Yeah, I could create a new character, but that's 800 gems for one I don't really want to have to play or keep track of.