A few things on thief that should be addressed immediately!

[Dantheman.3589]

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:Mug can't be spammed even if someone decided to waste it on a clone or a pet.Ice Shard Stab was already hotfixed.CnD won't be abused because it's slow, clunky, relatively buggy and 5 ini just ain't worth it to spam.

Not true at all let me break it down-using mark on a clone will most likely kill it and refresh mark immediately, this is 100% risk free spammable and can give an insane amount of boons.Ice shard was hot fixed but guess what tooth stab wasn’t and it deals the same damage ice shard did.Sword burst was basically untouched besides autos so now u can just use w.e u have- tactical strike sword 3 or 5 and u get away with it

You don't nerf a skill that may be abused as a result of other skill usage. Fix mark, don't nerf core.

(also my mark never oneshoted a clone, but I guess it can happen)

Tooth stab is inaccessible in PvP even on pets, clones and beasts it's a random roll item

(at least I think it's not guaranteed)

, so even if you really happened to get it as stolen item its somewhat of a good reward for wasting your steal in a RNG attempt to get it.Sword burst was never big to begin with, it's not even a burst set, the fact you can use CnD which happens to have higher dmg than its other skills doesn't magically make it bursty, almost all other professions have about two skills on most weapon sets that hit harder than other weapon skills on the same weapon, it's their purpose. It's simply intended to have some weapon skills hit harder than other skills on that weapon, that's why they cost more to use

(or have higher CD, etc.)

.CnD simply never was a dangerous nor spammable skill, I don't deny that you might have a different experience, but in my time I've never seen it be useful for anything than very very very occasional combo with steal and even then it randomly didn't land, anytime some Thief attempted to spam it I just undamaged him without even having to dodge.

Tooth stab is not inaccessible in pvp and 2 hits from that would ko most targets and that’s obviously busted.My suggestion to add an icd wouldnt affect core builds at all- just put a 5 sec icd on mug etc. to make sure mark doesn’t abuse it and because 5 secs isn’t enough for daredevil or core to get steal back it wouldn’t impact them.And yeah with de ur goona have to spam something with initiative and having a random skill busted is no bueno, but you can disagree it’s w.e

How do you access tooth stab in PvP?

I think he must mean ice shard stab, and it was already fixed.

Ice Shard Stab: Fixed an issue in which the damage increase for this skill was applied in all game modes instead of only PvE.

No I don’t mean ice shard. Tooth stab also has this bug and was not patched, it is a random roll item from beast etc and it can upper limit of 10k per which is busted and will 2 hit ko ppl.

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:All these resources are abusable!

1.) mug or mark require a rework or icd, as it can be used endlessly on clones downed targets or pets for insane boons or healing2.) tactical strike needs a huge nerf to bring it inline, as it is a cc that can do up to 7k on DE3.) tooth stab can do 10k per plz fixOther stuff of lower but still very high priority4.) feline grace needs a real icd, in addition to icds for bountiful theft and possibly be quick or be killed, becuz why is there an option that may be permanent boons/stat boost5.) M7 probably gives too much initiative and when combined with mercy I can give permanent full initiative6.) same problem with mark and mug- thrill of the crime needs icd reason already stated7.) many weapon skills damage not touched like cloak and dagger and this will be taken advantage of. where as the change to sw/d 3 is logical because at least flanking strike was nerfed, but maybe do something to prevent larcenous strike spam also Becuz that will also be taken advantage/spammed which isn’t skillful.8.) besides Deadeye builds that are busted with mark spam crit strikes dps and for some builds even the utility is starting to be very busted

I think I can go on and on actually but these things especially the first 3 should be hot fixed immediately. Also hopefully the comment section will be full of things that are just busted on thief atm as I’m sure there’s plenty

Ill go through the list.

1. if anything needs a cooldown, it would be mark.
2. tactical strike is soft cc, and 7k is very unlikely without plenty of qualifiers, meaning it will never happen in normal play alone even on zerk.
3. Tooth stab is not in pvp, you must mean ice shard stab, and it has already been patched.
4. feline grace got a competitive reduction already to 3 seconds, and acrobatics means less burst from a thief, so less burst should allow for more sustain.....
5. fine nerf those
6. if anything needs a cooldown, it's mark
7. many weapons go untouched because (1) they only do slow well telegraphed damage, (2) they are only afffective under certain conditions and/or (3) they have high initiative cost unjustified to their effects. The idea was not to lower every damage skill across the board, because they WERE NOT...across the board.
8. I don't think you have a real build in mind, but if you do lets see some game play with this eternal intiative busted utility, eternal dodging DE.

I have heard that bunker staff is back, and I actually believe that one is possibly true.

I would trust the claims of mortrialus, and shadowpass for broken thief stuff before this list above.

That and the gameplay from sindrener

1.)If mark needs a cd to prevent 3 things on that list from being exploited than it’s very exploitable.2.)doesn’t matter if it’s hard to get 7k on tactical strike it’s still about 2000% the damage of other ccs and no it’s not really that soft...3.) yes it is4.)feline graced nerfed and yet still 300% perma in combat uptime of vigor??? Make it 100% than claim it needs more burst...5.)yes bunker staff/staff is a thing in 2v2s with crit strikes valk and daredevil rube or at least I’ve been running it and most ppl I talked to think it’s one of the better 2v2 builds6.)just lol you didn’t name a single expert on thief mechanics and they are more trust worthy than my list of completely exploitable issues atm? Wow

[storm.3120]

@"Dantheman.3589" said:1.)If mark needs a cd to prevent 3 things on that list from being exploited than it’s very exploitable.It was exploitable for so long... you noticed only now?2.)doesn’t matter if it’s hard to get 7k on tactical strike it’s still about 2000% the damage of other ccs and no it’s not really that soft...Pog damage on cc right here.3.) yes it is^Getting as random steal from clones/pets4.)feline graced nerfed and yet still 300% perma in combat uptime of vigor??? Make it 100% than claim it needs more burst...I mean... it has only 1s icd ... it was obvious it would be 100% uptime anyway. But one "berserk main" that do not main thief tried to assure me thief dont have perma vigor.But holy s**t this man want to nerf his own main ! xD

[Dantheman.3589]

@Odik.4587 said:

@"Dantheman.3589" said:1.)If mark needs a cd to prevent 3 things on that list from being exploited than it’s very exploitable.It was exploitable for so long... you noticed only now?2.)doesn’t matter if it’s hard to get 7k on tactical strike it’s still about 2000% the damage of other ccs and no it’s not really that soft...Pog damage on cc right here.3.) yes it is^Getting as random steal from clones/pets4.)feline graced nerfed and yet still 300% perma in combat uptime of vigor??? Make it 100% than claim it needs more burst...I mean... it has only 1s icd ... it was obvious it would be 100% uptime anyway. But one "berserk main" that do not main thief tried to assure me thief dont have perma vigor.But holy s**t this man want to nerf his own main ! xD

It’s not really that I noticed it now it’s just that with all the new changes where deadeye spam will be rewarded will make all these things collectively a problem that unless fixed, from what I hear is going to be exploited in mats and 5v5 ranked like crazy.

Tbh I kind of wanna address the claim of me wanting to “nerf my own class”. I honestly don’t really want nerfs, what I want is to fix the exploitable things so that ppl won’t be force to play thief that way- for one that will stop ppl in the future of making false claims that certain things are busted when really they are exploitable. I also think it’s a better balance policy in general to make everything even across the board and just get rid of exploitations than to randomly go- o wow thief is busted let’s nerf these traits.To concluded the policy for balance is better off as one following logic and maintaining roughly equal numbers across the board instead of just following random forum post screaming for nerfs, which actually I ignore completely because we don’t need nerfs to anything we just need balance

[storm.3120]

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:1.)If mark needs a cd to prevent 3 things on that list from being exploited than it’s very exploitable.It was exploitable for so long... you noticed only now?2.)doesn’t matter if it’s hard to get 7k on tactical strike it’s still about 2000% the damage of other ccs and no it’s not really that soft...Pog damage on cc right here.3.) yes it is^Getting as random steal from clones/pets4.)feline graced nerfed and yet still 300% perma in combat uptime of vigor??? Make it 100% than claim it needs more burst...I mean... it has only 1s icd ... it was obvious it would be 100% uptime anyway. But one "berserk main" that do not main thief tried to assure me thief dont have perma vigor.But holy s**t this man want to nerf his own main ! xD

It’s not really that I noticed it now it’s just that with all the new changes where deadeye spam will be rewarded will make all these things collectively a problem that unless fixed, from what I hear is going to be exploited in mats and 5v5 ranked like crazy.

Tbh I kind of wanna address the claim of me wanting to “nerf my own class”. I honestly don’t really want nerfs, what I want is to fix the exploitable things so that ppl won’t be force to play thief that way- for one that will stop ppl in the future of making false claims that certain things are busted when really they are exploitable. I also think it’s a better balance policy in general to make everything even across the board and just get rid of exploitations than to randomly go- o wow thief is busted let’s nerf these traits.To concluded the policy for balance is better off as one following logic and maintaining roughly equal numbers across the board instead of just following random forum post screaming for nerfs, which actually I ignore completely because we don’t need nerfs to anything we just need balanceUnderstandable.

[Bazsi.2734]

@"Dantheman.3589" said:All these resources are abusable!

1.) mug or mark require a rework or icd, as it can be used endlessly on clones downed targets or pets for insane boons or healing

Without attacking a marking the target, DE is basicly a 2 traitline thief. Whenever you mark a downed target/ranger pet, you gamble on it actually dying(or getting swapped/merged if its a pet), otherwise your mark can be set on a target you wouldn't prioritize otherwise for a good 15+ seconds. If a thief is good enough to predict what will and will not happen in the chaos of the teamfight, he/she totally deserves those multiple procs.

2.) tactical strike needs a huge nerf to bring it inline, as it is a cc that can do up to 7k on DE

It's an anomaly indeed, the CC has a condition to it but still. I personally don't care if this gets nerfed, sword and DE are a weird mix. It will make the weapon even more useless though, which is maybe why they let it through the patch.

3.) tooth stab can do 10k per plz fix

I played several thousands of matches on thief and had to look this up. What even is this, how did the enemy thief get access to this?

Other stuff of lower but still very high priority4.) feline grace needs a real icd, in addition to icds for bountiful theft and possibly be quick or be killed, becuz why is there an option that may be permanent boons/stat boost

The importance of landing/dodgeing steal lies in all these traits it procs. No ICD-s. Thief doesn't work if there are ICD-s on its active traits. There was an attempt while DE was reworked, in the weeks of the transition DE was unplayable.

5.) M7 probably gives too much initiative and when combined with mercy I can give permanent full initiative

Can't see this being a problem in PvP. If people let you kneel, get all comfy while stacking 7 malice, resetting your malice and doing it all again (all without the quickness from BQoBK, we're talking a good 8-10 seconds here), they deserve what's coming to them. Any DE left unchecked for more then 2 seconds means enemy team is bad.

6.) same problem with mark and mug- thrill of the crime needs icd reason already stated

No ICD-s. They break class mechanics. If certain things dont activate when you mark/steal, there is no point in marking/stealing.

7.) many weapon skills damage not touched like cloak and dagger and this will be taken advantage of. where as the change to sw/d 3 is logical because at least flanking strike was nerfed, but maybe do something to prevent larcenous strike spam also Becuz that will also be taken advantage/spammed which isn’t skillful.

Cloak and dagger was indeed not adjusted, but everything else on D/D or S/D was, I don't see the big exploit here. I don't care if it's lowered by 30% as anything else was of not, because it would change next to nothing about the viability of thief builds with offhand dagger.As for larcenous strike spam, thats a fine way to dig yourself a hole and die in it. Damage and boon uptime got nerfed across the board, S/D was hit on autoattack aswell, the optimal way to use those 2 skills is to evade attacks with the first half and remove boons with the second, and use other skills for anything else. You can also do 3 3 3 3 until you run out of initative and die, but I'd say thats a pretty good lesson "to prevent larcenous strike spam".

8.) besides Deadeye builds that are busted with mark spam crit strikes dps and for some builds even the utility is starting to be very busted

"Critical strikes dps", "utility"... could you elaborate on what you mean by this point? Last time I picked that traitline or was thinking about DPS and utility was when I was still raiding.

I think I can go on and on actually but these things especially the first 3 should be hot fixed immediately. Also hopefully the comment section will be full of things that are just busted on thief atm as I’m sure there’s plenty

The only thing busted on thief is smokescreen. That's it, it's not the longest list to go through.

[Dantheman.3589]

@Bazsi.2734 said:

@"Dantheman.3589" said:All these resources are abusable!

1.) mug or mark require a rework or icd, as it can be used endlessly on clones downed targets or pets for insane boons or healing

Without attacking a marking the target, DE is basicly a 2 traitline thief. Whenever you mark a downed target/ranger pet, you gamble on it actually dying(or getting swapped/merged if its a pet), otherwise your mark can be set on a target you wouldn't prioritize otherwise for a good 15+ seconds. If a thief is good enough to predict what will and will not happen in the chaos of the teamfight, he/she totally deserves those multiple procs.

2.) tactical strike needs a huge nerf to bring it inline, as it is a cc that can do up to 7k on DE

It's an anomaly indeed, the CC has a condition to it but still. I personally don't care if this gets nerfed, sword and DE are a weird mix. It will make the weapon even more useless though, which is maybe why they let it through the patch.

3.) tooth stab can do 10k per plz fix

I played several thousands of matches on thief and had to look this up. What even is this, how did the enemy thief get access to this?

Other stuff of lower but still very high priority4.) feline grace needs a real icd, in addition to icds for bountiful theft and possibly be quick or be killed, becuz why is there an option that may be permanent boons/stat boost

The importance of landing/dodgeing steal lies in all these traits it procs. No ICD-s. Thief doesn't work if there are ICD-s on its active traits. There was an attempt while DE was reworked, in the weeks of the transition DE was unplayable.

5.) M7 probably gives too much initiative and when combined with mercy I can give permanent full initiative

Can't see this being a problem in PvP. If people let you kneel, get all comfy while stacking 7 malice, resetting your malice and doing it all again (all without the quickness from BQoBK, we're talking a good 8-10 seconds here), they deserve what's coming to them. Any DE left unchecked for more then 2 seconds means enemy team is bad.

6.) same problem with mark and mug- thrill of the crime needs icd reason already stated

No ICD-s. They break class mechanics. If certain things dont activate when you mark/steal, there is no point in marking/stealing.

7.) many weapon skills damage not touched like cloak and dagger and this will be taken advantage of. where as the change to sw/d 3 is logical because at least flanking strike was nerfed, but maybe do something to prevent larcenous strike spam also Becuz that will also be taken advantage/spammed which isn’t skillful.

Cloak and dagger was indeed not adjusted, but everything else on D/D or S/D was, I don't see the big exploit here. I don't care if it's lowered by 30% as anything else was of not, because it would change next to nothing about the viability of thief builds with offhand dagger.As for larcenous strike spam, thats a fine way to dig yourself a hole and die in it. Damage and boon uptime got nerfed across the board, S/D was hit on autoattack aswell, the optimal way to use those 2 skills is to evade attacks with the first half and remove boons with the second, and use other skills for anything else. You can also do 3 3 3 3 until you run out of initative and die, but I'd say thats a pretty good lesson "to prevent larcenous strike spam".

8.) besides Deadeye builds that are busted with mark spam crit strikes dps and for some builds even the utility is starting to be very busted

"Critical strikes dps", "utility"... could you elaborate on what you mean by this point? Last time I picked that traitline or was thinking about DPS and utility was when I was still raiding.

I think I can go on and on actually but these things especially the first 3 should be hot fixed immediately. Also hopefully the comment section will be full of things that are just busted on thief atm as I’m sure there’s plenty

The only thing busted on thief is smokescreen. That's it, it's not the longest list to go through.

Well I think smokescreen is great but only thing busted is how they made it a huge area Imo and I don’t see what’s abusable about. This is a list of abusable things the first 3 especially1.) the actual problem with mark spam is mostly due to mug as this way u know - it will destroy the clone and it will finish this down(plus poison helps immensely) which is the number 1 reason it’s spammable and even getting to use it x2 in a short period of time without using any resources should be a problem for one it’ll give you at least 4 very strong boons so if anything gets fixed about mark spam just stop ppl from what is potentially 4 resourceless uses in a row when taking into account clones.2.) yeah just the fact that there’s a cc does x100 damage seems like a problem and it’s one of the main rotations for sword thief rn which is mark 3,4 to get malice then 5 for stealth plus 1 which could do what 10k damage + cc, which is out of line atm3.) tooth stab is from stealing onto pets clones etc which is perfectly reason to assume happens in a match and u can have 2 charges of this skill that hit for 7k per...These 3 totally seem out of line with everything which the patch was meant to reduce also tooth stab is unintended so should be hot fixed...The other ones are mostly resource management also like m7 theoretically giving u perma initiative and ofc that’s on paper broken doesn’t matter if it takes a long time it’s perma so u can do it for a long time...For crits there are multiple problems arising for 1 it’s dps was untouched and is now far superior to DA, also almost nothing has a real meaningful cd which just follows the theme of other points such as how a thief can just go invis over and over and have 100% crit on next backstab which is approaching abusable, so it’s something to take into consideration.Pretty much I know a lot of these are technically weaker but they should prevent spam in general and/or help balance which they stand alone on the thief class atm as something not changed by the balance patch which is 1 reason they should be looked at

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

@Tycura.1982 said:It's seems like the good thieves always want thief nerfs y tho

Because if thieves don't check their own power levels constantly they get wrenches thrown into their rotation that remove them from combat effectiveness period.Also classes that are hard to play are hard to bandwagon.

@"Odik.4587" said:I mean... it has only 1s icd ... it was obvious it would be 100% uptime anyway. But one "berserk main" that do not main thief tried to assure me thief dont have perma vigor.

You rang? <3It's not permanent. I'm not buying the argument that thief evasion exists in some kind of bubble reality where boons dont get ripped and dodges dont get baited.

Speaking of which:

@Dantheman.3589 said:4.)feline graced nerfed and yet still 300% perma in combat uptime of vigor??? Make it 100% than claim it needs more burst..

No~ Also Crab means that if you're taking the acrobatics line, you're taking it because you want to give up some damage for some more evasion (That you are only acquiring through skillful play to begin with). You nerf feline grace too firmly and I'm just going to stack damage instead, because why should I be content with 1 second of vigor on dodge? That actively damages the worth of the traitline.I'm fine with not getting damage or vigor handed to me for nothing. I'm not fine with actively being punished for doing my job. Hard pass on not getting rewarded for constantly dodging opponent spam.

@Fueki.4753 said:And Firebrand is not the worst offender in PvP

chuckle

@Dantheman.3589 said:1.) mug or mark require a rework or icd, as it can be used endlessly on clones downed targets or pets for insane boons or healing

I guess? Mark/Mug potentially has some exploitative scenarios there, sure; but use case is pretty flat on that.

2.) tactical strike needs a huge nerf to bring it inline, as it is a cc that can do up to 7k on DE3.) tooth stab can do 10k per plz fixOther stuff of lower but still very high priority5.) M7 probably gives too much initiative and when combined with mercy I can give permanent full initiative

Fair enough.

7.) many weapon skills damage not touched like cloak and dagger and this will be taken advantage of. where as the change to sw/d 3 is logical because at least flankingstrike was nerfed, but maybe do something to prevent larcenous strike spam also Becuz that will also be taken advantage/spammed which isn’t skillful.

Probably worth looking into.

8.) besides Deadeye builds that are busted with mark spam crit strikes dps and for some builds even the utility is starting to be very busted

Some Deadeye builds that run full glass (even though they did that before) are a bit more effective now due to reduced healing. May be worth a second look to prevent them harassing low mobi targets.

thrill of the crime needs icd reason already stated

Not unless you're planning to put the swiftness and fury somewhere else.

[UNOwen.7132]

Deadeye finally is approaching viability (keyword approaching, hard to tell while Firebrand and Necro exist in their current state if they actually reached it), lets not go gung-ho about nerfing them yet. Especially M7, which is fine.

[Dantheman.3589]

@UNOwen.7132 said:Deadeye finally is approaching viability (keyword approaching, hard to tell while Firebrand and Necro exist in their current state if they actually reached it), lets not go gung-ho about nerfing them yet. Especially M7, which is fine.

Hard to tell what’s viable at all against necro FB in 2v2s. I think sword dagger is just better rn so you want m7 anyways, it is pretty much ok especially the boons as there’s trade off for having to get full malice but getting 7 initiative back surely limits any trade off and makes it more spammable, which is counterintuitive to the patch. Some of the points are actually only problems in 5v5 which we still have some idea of what’s optimal. If de becomes meta I’d rather it be there without exploitable things also tooth stab is 100% unintended sword 1 possibly needs to have stun removed becuz it’s still mostly a cc. I’m actually trying to avoid actual nerfs so reducing dmg coefficients is lowest on my list of things to change while avoiding abuse with minimal Icds that shouldn’t affect any other part of the class are number 1 on my list

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

@UNOwen.7132 said:Deadeye finally is approaching viability (keyword approaching, hard to tell while Firebrand and Necro exist in their current state if they actually reached it), lets not go gung-ho about nerfing them yet. Especially M7, which is fine.

I wouldn't say approaching viability. They were already viable. FB and Necro pairups are probably unintended.Probably need a bit of a light touch, but light means *light.**

@Dantheman.3589 said:I’m actually trying to avoid actual nerfs so reducing dmg coefficients is lowest on my list of things to change while avoiding abuse with minimal Icds that shouldn’t affect any other part of the class are number 1 on my list

You be careful with that. There's a fine line between what you're doing and destroying niche builds that weren't bandwagoned to begin with.

[UNOwen.7132]

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:Deadeye finally is approaching viability (keyword approaching, hard to tell while Firebrand and Necro exist in their current state if they actually reached it), lets not go gung-ho about nerfing them yet. Especially M7, which is fine.

Hard to tell what’s viable at all against necro FB in 2v2s. I think sword dagger is just better rn so you want m7 anyways, it is pretty much ok especially the boons as there’s trade off for having to get full malice but getting 7 initiative back surely limits any trade off and makes it more spammable, which is counterintuitive to the patch. Some of the points are actually only problems in 5v5 which we still have some idea of what’s optimal. If de becomes meta I’d rather it be there without exploitable things also tooth stab is 100% unintended sword 1 possibly needs to have stun removed becuz it’s still mostly a cc. I’m actually trying to avoid actual nerfs so reducing dmg coefficients is lowest on my list of things to change while avoiding abuse with minimal Icds that shouldn’t affect any other part of the class are number 1 on my list

Yup, Firebrand and Necro are what makes meta-calls hard. As for Sword-Dagger, much like before, its not going to use Deadeye. Pretty much no thief build that isnt Malicious Backstab Cheese or Rifle wants to avoid DE, as mark is a significant downgrade, and the traitline does not give much else to justify it. Just stick with the tried and true core S/D version.

If DE becomes meta (which is unlikely tbh. Viable, yes, meta, not so much), its likely going to be off of Rifle Spam 2. Thats not really exploitable or problematic. Just ... boring.

[UNOwen.7132]

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:Deadeye finally is approaching viability (keyword approaching, hard to tell while Firebrand and Necro exist in their current state if they actually reached it), lets not go gung-ho about nerfing them yet. Especially M7, which is fine.

I wouldn't say approaching viability. They were already viable. FB and Necro pairups are probably unintended.Probably need a bit of a light touch, but light means *light.**

@Dantheman.3589 said:I’m actually trying to avoid actual nerfs so reducing dmg coefficients is lowest on my list of things to change while avoiding abuse with

minimal Icds that shouldn’t affect any other part of the class

are number 1 on my list

You be careful with that. There's a fine line between what you're doing and destroying niche builds that weren't bandwagoned to begin with.

Pre-patch, they really werent viable at all. DE has been meme-tier at best for many, many patches. Right now with everything else nerfed, and it less so, it has potential to be viable or possibly even decent, but its hardly set in stone.

[Dantheman.3589]

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:Deadeye finally is approaching viability (keyword approaching, hard to tell while Firebrand and Necro exist in their current state if they actually reached it), lets not go gung-ho about nerfing them yet. Especially M7, which is fine.

I wouldn't say approaching viability. They were already viable. FB and Necro pairups are probably unintended.Probably need a bit of a light touch, but light means light.

@Dantheman.3589 said:I’m actually trying to avoid actual nerfs so reducing dmg coefficients is lowest on my list of things to change while avoiding abuse with

minimal Icds that shouldn’t affect any other part of the class

are number 1 on my list

You be careful with that.

I don’t really see how I’d destroy niche builds with some of these. Theoretically a good skill would be good even if it doesn’t provide on paper infinite resources- like improv is still one of the best traits in DA without it provide a possibility of refreshing every single utility on your bar if I chose to take for example all tricks. If stopping a de from forever marking clones makes them unviable than maybe ppl shouldn’t play de, though I’ll admit that an icd could hurt ppl using mercy for a second mark, but then again that’s not 100% the problem it should have something on paper that stops it from being used endlessly

[PLS.4095]

@"Dantheman.3589" said:All these resources are abusable!

1.) mug or mark require a rework or icd, as it can be used endlessly on clones downed targets or pets for insane boons or healing2.) tactical strike needs a huge nerf to bring it inline, as it is a cc that can do up to 7k on DE3.) tooth stab can do 10k per plz fixOther stuff of lower but still very high priority4.) feline grace needs a real icd, in addition to icds for bountiful theft and possibly be quick or be killed, becuz why is there an option that may be permanent boons/stat boost5.) M7 probably gives too much initiative and when combined with mercy I can give permanent full initiative6.) same problem with mark and mug- thrill of the crime needs icd reason already stated7.) many weapon skills damage not touched like cloak and dagger and this will be taken advantage of. where as the change to sw/d 3 is logical because at least flanking strike was nerfed, but maybe do something to prevent larcenous strike spam also Becuz that will also be taken advantage/spammed which isn’t skillful.8.) besides Deadeye builds that are busted with mark spam crit strikes dps and for some builds even the utility is starting to be very busted

I think I can go on and on actually but these things especially the first 3 should be hot fixed immediately. Also hopefully the comment section will be full of things that are just busted on thief atm as I’m sure there’s plenty

Are you really playing thief ?Are you really playing out of sliver ?Are you really playing gw2 pvp ?

This is my backstab damage on weaver whive zerk thief in pvp for exemple :

attaque sournoise = backstab

https://imgur.com/MmLPSdS

[Dantheman.3589]

@PLS.4095 said:

@"Dantheman.3589" said:All these resources are abusable!

1.) mug or mark require a rework or icd, as it can be used endlessly on clones downed targets or pets for insane boons or healing2.) tactical strike needs a huge nerf to bring it inline, as it is a cc that can do up to 7k on DE3.) tooth stab can do 10k per plz fixOther stuff of lower but still very high priority4.) feline grace needs a real icd, in addition to icds for bountiful theft and possibly be quick or be killed, becuz why is there an option that may be permanent boons/stat boost5.) M7 probably gives too much initiative and when combined with mercy I can give permanent full initiative6.) same problem with mark and mug- thrill of the crime needs icd reason already stated7.) many weapon skills damage not touched like cloak and dagger and this will be taken advantage of. where as the change to sw/d 3 is logical because at least flanking strike was nerfed, but maybe do something to prevent larcenous strike spam also Becuz that will also be taken advantage/spammed which isn’t skillful.8.) besides Deadeye builds that are busted with mark spam crit strikes dps and for some builds even the utility is starting to be very busted

I think I can go on and on actually but these things especially the first 3 should be hot fixed immediately. Also hopefully the comment section will be full of things that are just busted on thief atm as I’m sure there’s plenty

Are you really playing thief ?Are you really playing out of sliver ?Are you really playing gw2 pvp ?

This is my backstab damage on weaver whive zerk thief in pvp for exemple :

https://imgur.com/MmLPSdS

I’ve been playing thief for past 4 seasons every time in plat3+ solo Qing and before that in core. Did anything here talk about backstab needing a nerf? I want to avoid skills that are busted resource wise and I don’t think any of them would affect backstab besides crits, which is more a suggestion for the future not something really a concern yet..

[Nashada.9436]

You want to nerf thief more? Damn, some peeps are seriously so confused in the head lmao

[Dantheman.3589]

@Nashada.9436 said:You want to nerf thief more? kitten, some peeps are seriously so confused in the head lmao

Where are nerfs the first 3 and most of the others are either - exploitable but not mechanically necessary, unintended or out of line with all the other changes...There is no confusion these are all things that just illogical and actually has nothing to with nerfs tbh, again either out of line, unintended or exploitable...

[Aihao.5824]

de is dead, what nerfes do u want? for what? catching with the face all of projectiles?it has no mobility and no survivability compared to others, so relax there

[Nashada.9436]

@Nashada.9436 said:You want to nerf thief more? kitten, some peeps are seriously so confused in the head lmao

Where are nerfs the first 3 and most of the others are either - exploitable but not mechanically necessary, unintended or out of line with all the other changes...There is no confusion these are all things that just illogical and actually has nothing to with nerfs tbh, again either out of line, unintended or exploitable...

I doubt you play thief

[Dantheman.3589]

@Nashada.9436 said:

@Nashada.9436 said:You want to nerf thief more? kitten, some peeps are seriously so confused in the head lmao

Where are nerfs the first 3 and most of the others are either - exploitable but not mechanically necessary, unintended or out of line with all the other changes...There is no confusion these are all things that just illogical and actually has nothing to with nerfs tbh, again either out of line, unintended or exploitable...

I doubt you play thief

Lol I main thief

@Dantheman.3589 said:

I’ve been playing thief for past 4 seasons every time in plat3+ solo Qing and before that in core. Did anything here talk about backstab needing a nerf? I want to avoid skills that are busted resource wise and I don’t think any of them would affect backstab besides crits, which is more a suggestion for the future not something really a concern yet..

And is anything I said on paper incorrect? No not really... what are u even trying to say- w.e it is you clearly aren’t even communicating with proper English lol

[Dantheman.3589]

@Aihao.5824 said:de is dead, what nerfes do u want? for what? catching with the face all of projectiles?it has no mobility and no survivability compared to others, so relax there

De is one of the more common things I’ve heard for being a viable build in the new meta- also again these suggestions are mostly about exploitable problems that actually wouldnt even affect des or other specs main rotation, so they aren’t nerfs tbh just m7 which as I said on paper is basically exploitable for 100% initiative regen...

[Nashada.9436]

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@Nashada.9436 said:

@Nashada.9436 said:You want to nerf thief more? kitten, some peeps are seriously so confused in the head lmao

Where are nerfs the first 3 and most of the others are either - exploitable but not mechanically necessary, unintended or out of line with all the other changes...There is no confusion these are all things that just illogical and actually has nothing to with nerfs tbh, again either out of line, unintended or exploitable...

I doubt you play thief

Lol I main thief

@Dantheman.3589 said:

I’ve been playing thief for past 4 seasons every time in plat3+ solo Qing and before that in core. Did anything here talk about backstab needing a nerf? I want to avoid skills that are busted resource wise and I don’t think any of them would affect backstab besides crits, which is more a suggestion for the future not something really a concern yet..

And is anything I said on paper incorrect? No not really... what are u even trying to say- w.e it is you clearly aren’t even communicating with proper English lol

It's ridiculous that you're advocating for Thief nerfs when you main the class, especially after recent balance patches and the fact we're outclassed by almost everything unless you put a lot more effort into what you're doing. Maybe what you're saying is true to some minuscule extent, but the fact you're complaining about Thief of all things when the glaring issues post-patch are the fact that everything revolves around bunker/condi and that Necro is so exceedingly broken that it's dominating 2v2s. So once again, I doubt you main Thief.

[Dantheman.3589]

@Nashada.9436 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@Nashada.9436 said:

@Nashada.9436 said:You want to nerf thief more? kitten, some peeps are seriously so confused in the head lmao

Where are nerfs the first 3 and most of the others are either - exploitable but not mechanically necessary, unintended or out of line with all the other changes...There is no confusion these are all things that just illogical and actually has nothing to with nerfs tbh, again either out of line, unintended or exploitable...

I doubt you play thief

Lol I main thief

@Dantheman.3589 said:

I’ve been playing thief for past 4 seasons every time in plat3+ solo Qing and before that in core. Did anything here talk about backstab needing a nerf? I want to avoid skills that are busted resource wise and I don’t think any of them would affect backstab besides crits, which is more a suggestion for the future not something really a concern yet..

And is anything I said on paper incorrect? No not really... what are u even trying to say- w.e it is you clearly aren’t even communicating with proper English lol

It's ridiculous that you're advocating for Thief nerfs when you main the class, especially after recent balance patches and the fact we're outclassed by almost everything unless you put a lot more effort into what you're doing. Maybe what you're saying is true to some minuscule extent, but the fact you're complaining about Thief of all things when the glaring issues post-patch are the fact that everything revolves around bunker/condi and that Necro is so exceedingly broken that it's dominating 2v2s. So once again, I doubt you main Thief.

If u read anything in this discussion it isn’t about nerfing and it’s not a nerf thief thread as that implies I think it’s over performing in some way which is a separate matter and tbh I generally avoid those topic entirely. This is mostly about exploitable and unintended changes and balance in general which any thief main should think about before random classes you think are over performing. Basically a real thief main should be worried about unintended results of class mechanics as this will prevent non thief mains or other thief mains from being forced to play something that is unintendly overperforming in some categories for no logical reason.Tbh why would I be goading over nerf necro thread if I’m a thief main and there’s clearly something I can do to provide accurate feedback on my classes interaction in pvp. To say otherwise seems more like random hate mail and completely unconstructive.

[Nashada.9436]

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@Nashada.9436 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@Nashada.9436 said:

@Nashada.9436 said:You want to nerf thief more? kitten, some peeps are seriously so confused in the head lmao

Where are nerfs the first 3 and most of the others are either - exploitable but not mechanically necessary, unintended or out of line with all the other changes...There is no confusion these are all things that just illogical and actually has nothing to with nerfs tbh, again either out of line, unintended or exploitable...

I doubt you play thief

Lol I main thief

@Dantheman.3589 said:

I’ve been playing thief for past 4 seasons every time in plat3+ solo Qing and before that in core. Did anything here talk about backstab needing a nerf? I want to avoid skills that are busted resource wise and I don’t think any of them would affect backstab besides crits, which is more a suggestion for the future not something really a concern yet..

And is anything I said on paper incorrect? No not really... what are u even trying to say- w.e it is you clearly aren’t even communicating with proper English lol

It's ridiculous that you're advocating for Thief nerfs when you main the class, especially after recent balance patches and the fact we're outclassed by almost everything unless you put a lot more effort into what you're doing. Maybe what you're saying is true to some minuscule extent, but the fact you're complaining about Thief of all things when the glaring issues post-patch are the fact that everything revolves around bunker/condi and that Necro is so exceedingly broken that it's dominating 2v2s. So once again, I doubt you main Thief.

If u read anything in this discussion it isn’t about nerfing and it’s not a nerf thief thread as that implies I think it’s over performing in some way which is a separate matter and tbh I generally avoid those topic entirely. This is mostly about exploitable and unintended changes and balance in general which any thief main should think about before random classes you think are over performing. Basically a real thief main should be worried about unintended results of class mechanics as this will prevent non thief mains or other thief mains from being forced to play something that is unintendly overperforming in some categories for no logical reason.Tbh why would I be goading over nerf necro thread if I’m a thief main and there’s clearly something I can do to provide accurate feedback on my classes interaction in pvp. To say otherwise seems more like random hate mail and completely unconstructive.

Nothing you mentioned seemed remotely exploitable, otherwise, these things would be exploited..? Lol

[Dantheman.3589]

@Nashada.9436 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@Nashada.9436 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@Nashada.9436 said:

@Nashada.9436 said:You want to nerf thief more? kitten, some peeps are seriously so confused in the head lmao

Where are nerfs the first 3 and most of the others are either - exploitable but not mechanically necessary, unintended or out of line with all the other changes...There is no confusion these are all things that just illogical and actually has nothing to with nerfs tbh, again either out of line, unintended or exploitable...

I doubt you play thief

Lol I main thief

@Dantheman.3589 said:

I’ve been playing thief for past 4 seasons every time in plat3+ solo Qing and before that in core. Did anything here talk about backstab needing a nerf? I want to avoid skills that are busted resource wise and I don’t think any of them would affect backstab besides crits, which is more a suggestion for the future not something really a concern yet..

And is anything I said on paper incorrect? No not really... what are u even trying to say- w.e it is you clearly aren’t even communicating with proper English lol

It's ridiculous that you're advocating for Thief nerfs when you main the class, especially after recent balance patches and the fact we're outclassed by almost everything unless you put a lot more effort into what you're doing. Maybe what you're saying is true to some minuscule extent, but the fact you're complaining about Thief of all things when the glaring issues post-patch are the fact that everything revolves around bunker/condi and that Necro is so exceedingly broken that it's dominating 2v2s. So once again, I doubt you main Thief.

If u read anything in this discussion it isn’t about nerfing and it’s not a nerf thief thread as that implies I think it’s over performing in some way which is a separate matter and tbh I generally avoid those topic entirely. This is mostly about exploitable and unintended changes and balance in general which any thief main should think about before random classes you think are over performing. Basically a real thief main should be worried about unintended results of class mechanics as this will prevent non thief mains or other thief mains from being forced to play something that is unintendly overperforming in some categories for no logical reason.Tbh why would I be goading over nerf necro thread if I’m a thief main and there’s clearly something I can do to provide accurate feedback on my classes interaction in pvp. To say otherwise seems more like random hate mail and completely unconstructive.

Nothing you mentioned seemed remotely exploitable, otherwise, these things would be exploited..? Lol

Yet on paper they all are and even some are completely unintended and can have huge impact. So you are proven wrong.