Game balance is bad, Necro is insane

[Mini Crinny.6190]

@Axl.8924 said:

@Mini Crinny.6190 said:

@Nimon.7840 said:

why we should worry if necro is insane?if that true - they all get place in upper division, and we will play in non upper, where no necro, and get same % of lose/wins.So if some class is up - this is absolutely no make inject to out gamelay. So problem solved.

Also I am sure that necro is not insane. But who care?

These last two sentences.Nice.

People just didn't adapt, and most players still trying to play their old playstyle.

If someone's not able to counter a necro: go play the class/build yourself.And especially go play against good players, that know how to counter a necro, or ask a necro player about necro's weaknesses.

Did you even play Ele nimon when Fireweaver was around? or did you just complain how OP it was?

IS weaver even a thing? just curious.

Saw a weaver vs rev fight, was pretty impressive looking.

Don't know, we should wait for Nimon to say what he thinks

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

@"UNOwen.7132" said:"A little bit overperforming" is the understatement of the year. The build can easily 1v2 anything that isnt another necro. Its pretty absurd. And no, its not weak to cc at all, besides the fact that it has above average amounts of stunbreak, it also is so tanky that ccing them does next to nothing.

I disagree with you partly.I beat them regularly on warrior (because I interrupt everything they do), and on thief as well(because I interrupt everything they do). Even the ones that are spongy enough to soak all my damage still have to run around like frightened chickens to make sure they have enough time for their Cds to come up.

Yes, they are definitely overperforming -in 2v2-. That balancing metric should have been used to tailor them for at least the mini season.In 5v5, though? They're less effective than turret engie or bunker rev or bunker guard or staff thief, or prepatch druid or bunker ele. you can usually chase them off the point by yourself. They cant actively boost themselves back up to 100% HP if you give them breathers, so if you watch for their heal and snub it they often freak out and ruin their rotations.

I concede lich form because it is the antithesis to their design philosophy and falls into the same pitfall rampage fell into, but I'm ehhhh on axing them too hastily, because they were frankly supposed to be at least -somewhat- like this. And given that some classes are probably going to get damage back on hard hitting skills that rely on cc to connect, I would rather see that damage come back across the board before I start gutting Necro's mitigation for it. Keep in mind that we may yet see skills that do too little get buffed. We shave necro before that buff and suddenly theyll find themselves unable to soak the damage spikes.

and they still get focused in 5v5, except now if they dont want to get erased they have to sit in shroud permastunned while people stomp on their LF. It's always a slow bleed.

2v2 is only going to be up for a month.If you want it to work in 2v2, maybe hotfix disable lich form and signet of undeath for ranked until the mini season is over or something. It feels fine in conquest.

[Axl.8924]

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@"UNOwen.7132" said:"A little bit overperforming" is the understatement of the year. The build can easily 1v2 anything that isnt another necro. Its pretty absurd. And no, its not weak to cc at all, besides the fact that it has above average amounts of stunbreak, it also is so tanky that ccing them does next to nothing.

I disagree with you partly.I beat them regularly on warrior, and on thief as well. Even the ones that are spongy enough to soak all my damage still have to run around like frightened chickens to make sure they have enough time for their Cds to come up.

Yes, they are definitely overperforming -in 2v2-. That balancing metric should have been used to tailor them for at least the mini season.In 5v5, though? They're less effective than turret engie or bunker rev or bunker guard or staff thief, or prepatch druid or bunker ele. you can usually chase them off the point by yourself.2v2 is only going to be up for a month.

I concede lich form because it is the antithesis to their design philosophy and falls into the same pitfall rampage fell into, but I'm ehhhh on axing them too hastily, because they were frankly supposed to be at least -somewhat- like this. And given that some classes are probably going to get damage back on hard hitting skills that rely on cc to connect, I would rather see that damage come back across the board before I start gutting Necro's mitigation for it. Keep in mind that we may yet see skills that do too little get buffed. We shave necro before that buff and suddenly theyll find themselves unable to soak the damage spikes.

and they still get focused in 5v5, except now if they dont want to get erased they have to sit in shroud permastunned while people stomp on their LF. It's always a slow bleed.

If you want it to work in 2v2 Idk maybe disable lich form and signet of undeath until the mini season is over or something. It feels fine in conquest.

Bro they still need to hit lich, because its that nuts going double lich and being so strong and so high sustain in 2v2 that its toxic.

On top of that, it has stab so you can't cc them. These guys are unfortunately right we need small nerf to make them bearable before things get outta hand and they end up getting gutted for abuse. I love necro but you know something is busted when 80-90% of the 2v2 is necro.

Everyone is complaining about it, so better to fix it now with small changes than be forced massive nerf that is class destroying.

If the small nerf is too big, then they can add back something, but its doubtful.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

@Axl.8924 said:Bro they still need to hit lich that is nuts being able to double lich and be so strong dmg with sustain combined in 2v2 its toxic.On top of that, it has stab so you can't cc them. These guys are unfortunately right we need small nerf to make them bearable before things get outta hand and they end up getting gutted for abuse. I love necro but you know something is busted when 80-90% of the 2v2 is necro.Everyone is complaining about it, so better to fix it now with small changes than be forced massive nerf that is class destroying.If the small nerf is too big, then they can add back something, but its doubtful.

Yeah I know, that's what I was saying. Sorry if I didn't make that distinction clear.

Lich autos coupled with its stab and uptime is 1000% too much right now.

I'm not so sure about the core necro itself, though.

[Madja.1369]

After playing 2v2 for a few days I would definitely agree that lich form needs a nerf, but to be honest I haven't had much trouble with it after I simply started bursting the necro when he goes into the form. That way he has to drop out of it again after just a few seconds.

Necros are still my most hated class to go up against, though, and that's mainly because of their two health bars. I feel like they're simply able to build life force waaay too fast. It takes a long time to get through their shroud and then you get to take maybe 30-40% of their health before they seem to have almost a full life force bar again. You end up having to "kill" them multiple times and most matches I play against necros seem to go into overtime because of this.

[UNOwen.7132]

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@"UNOwen.7132" said:"A little bit overperforming" is the understatement of the year. The build can easily 1v2 anything that isnt another necro. Its pretty absurd. And no, its not weak to cc at all, besides the fact that it has above average amounts of stunbreak, it also is so tanky that ccing them does next to nothing.

I disagree with you partly.I beat them regularly on warrior (because I interrupt everything they do), and on thief as well(because I interrupt everything they do). Even the ones that are spongy enough to soak all my damage still have to run around like frightened chickens to make sure they have enough time for their Cds to come up.

Yes, they are definitely overperforming -in 2v2-. That balancing metric should have been used to tailor them for at least the mini season.In 5v5, though? They're less effective than turret engie or bunker rev or bunker guard or staff thief, or prepatch druid or bunker ele. you can usually chase them off the point by yourself. They cant actively boost themselves back up to 100% HP if you give them breathers, so if you watch for their heal and snub it they often freak out and ruin their rotations.

I concede lich form because it is the antithesis to their design philosophy and falls into the same pitfall rampage fell into, but I'm ehhhh on axing them too hastily, because they were frankly supposed to be at least -somewhat- like this. And given that some classes are probably going to get damage back on hard hitting skills that rely on cc to connect, I would rather see that damage come back across the board before I start gutting Necro's mitigation for it. Keep in mind that we may yet see skills that do too little get buffed. We shave necro before that buff and suddenly theyll find themselves unable to soak the damage spikes.

and they still get focused in 5v5, except now if they dont want to get erased they have to sit in shroud permastunned while people stomp on their LF. It's always a slow bleed.

2v2 is only going to be up for a month.If you want it to work in 2v2, maybe hotfix disable lich form and signet of undeath for ranked until the mini season is over or something. It feels fine in conquest.

Then Im afraid their build is bad. Because thief simply doesnt have the damage to kill them, and Warrior doesnt have the interrupts to stop everything they do (and still not enough damage to kill them). If oyu interrupt all they do, they just keep attacking you while waiting for their cooldowns. Theyll be up sooner than you will ever kill them.

No, in 5v5 theyre also busted. Same logic, nearly unkillabe, requires 2 people to reasonably kill them. Interupting them doesnt really do much because your interupts are more limited than their things that do damage are, and solo, youre gonna need half a minute to kill them if they dont use any defensive tools. If they do, you probably cant, alltogether. Maybe Condi Rev can, but Condi Rev is itself overperforming. And no, theyre far more effective than all builds you listed. Hell, Staff Thief is a joke compared to Core Necro.

Nah, if anything gets damage back, its the CC skills that do damage. Thing is, thats not really going to help you, that improves bursting most of all, but Necro is basically impervious to burst. In order for them to be killable again, sustained DPS needs to go way up. And uh, yeah I dont see that happening, that would basically undo the whole patch.

Core Necro is a sidenoder. If theyre being focused, theyre already winning, because that means theyre 1v3 at far while their team is stomping mid and close (or vice versa). The point of the build is that you cant kill it without outnumbering it, so it wins by default.

[Nimon.7840]

@Mini Crinny.6190 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Mini Crinny.6190 said:

@Nimon.7840 said:

why we should worry if necro is insane?if that true - they all get place in upper division, and we will play in non upper, where no necro, and get same % of lose/wins.So if some class is up - this is absolutely no make inject to out gamelay. So problem solved.

Also I am sure that necro is not insane. But who care?

These last two sentences.Nice.

People just didn't adapt, and most players still trying to play their old playstyle.

If someone's not able to counter a necro: go play the class/build yourself.And especially go play against good players, that know how to counter a necro, or ask a necro player about necro's weaknesses.

Did you even play Ele nimon when Fireweaver was around? or did you just complain how OP it was?

IS weaver even a thing? just curious.

Saw a weaver vs rev fight, was pretty impressive looking.

Don't know, we should wait for Nimon to say what he thinks

Can't say yet, if I think they're strong. Saw one good Weaver in wvw, fighting 3 people.But just by that you can't judge it.And I didn't play Weaver myself yet. Messing around with various necro builds (mostly reaper).

Though the spec that looked pretty strong and I saw quite a few of them is Condi core ele.

But yet again. Didn't play it myself yet.

Gotta play necro for a bit more, till I get bored again and switch to other classes to mess with