[vT]Hobo: Post Patch WvW Roaming Videos

[Helly.2597]

With the patch coming out, I had told myself to actually give scourge another chance after the shade change. While it's relatively early on (and I can't predict how the meta will shift after future changes) I believe scourge has a place again in roaming. I'll post an updated build once I have more than one day back playing scourge and after testing a few things out. But here's a video.

While I acknowledge that people will point out low ranks on opponents (turns out the I can't demand high ranks engage us) firebrands in party (of which Ranno is playing symbol brand) and the other necro (playing core power) as reasons why the video is a poor representation of the ability. But feel free to test out scourge yourself and let me know how it feels.

As always feedback/comments/rants are welcome.

[Xenic.1387]

@"Helly.2597" I'm new to WvW and love Scourge. I was struggling a bit last night to find a comfort zone. Can you recommend a build and gear set for me? I would be in a smaller group, likely 10-12 people, that runs around and assists bigger parties. I believe they called us a 'havoc' group. My job would be to put pressure on the other team with condi and boon rip plus be able to support and obviously stay alive.

Last night I did fine, brought the utility to the fights you would expect, got kills as you would expect, (nothing flashy), but I just don't feel like I'm even close to utilizing the class fully like I can in PVE.

I ran this build http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?PSwAYt/lVweYcsNmJW0X6vKA-e with my plaguedoctors gear set. I have access to full magi, full beserkers, and full vipers right now.

[Helly.2597]

@Xenic.1387 said:@"Helly.2597" I'm new to WvW and love Scourge. I was struggling a bit last night to find a comfort zone. Can you recommend a build and gear set for me? I would be in a smaller group, likely 10-12 people, that runs around and assists bigger parties. I believe they called us a 'havoc' group. My job would be to put pressure on the other team with condi and boon rip plus be able to support and obviously stay alive.

Last night I did fine, brought the utility to the fights you would expect, got kills as you would expect, (nothing flashy), but I just don't feel like I'm even close to utilizing the class fully like I can in PVE.

I ran this build http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?PSwAYt/lVweYcsNmJW0X6vKA-e with my plaguedoctors gear set. I have access to full magi, full beserkers, and full vipers right now.

Glad you have been enjoying scourge and welcome to wvw. One note for scourge (at least at the <5 scale which can still relate to your group size) is that positioning is key and will come with playing more. So don't be worried if you feel like you could be more effective, necro and scourge in a lot of ways is about staying alive and knowing your dmg will add up over time and this will win fights. So the major victory is surviving in the fights as long as possible.

Hmm. As far as build, it depends on how your group plays in a lot of ways. If you're finding yourself all moving together like a mini 20 man guild would your build will differ from if you play more like a traditional roaming group. And will also depend on your comp you typically run.

For skills, I think the larger groups you can drop spectral armor for scourge portal (if you are able to coordinate team movement through it and use it effectively), corrupt well (always a good choice), or spectral walk (just don't juke out your own group with it). I'm not a big fan of spectral grasp, since I find it's extremely lackluster in fights you actually need to work to win in and where you aren't already at an advantage. Any of the above options are possibilities for this slot, but grasp can stay if you want as well.

In my experience, I would recommend apothecary/dire mix if you're wanting to support over plaguedoctor. The concentration is a bit of a wasted stat on necro and you might as well dump that into more healing and more Condi dmg. If you're planning on supporting, especially in smaller groups, I strongly recommend blood magic over curses. This would make you support who also does dmg instead of dmg who also does support.

More damaging I like a tb/vipers mix. But you can always go dire/tb mix if you're going condi and want more survivability. But at the start you can go full dire and add in more power/precision as you get comfortable.

For traits, I always recommend the lower punishment CDs over the barrier on shade use. Your heal, stunbreak, and elite are all great abilities and it gives you lower CDs and more dmg.

As for getting the most out of scourge in wvw, that can be trickier. And honestly at sizes above 5 ppl I'm certainly less experienced than a lot of people out there. Part of it depends on how your group operates. For my group size, the general rule is scourge dictates where everyone else can go and the fb uses these paths to support the scourge. So usually in fights I make a lot of positioning calls if I'm on scourge. This isn't always going to translate to larger groups though. And as you get comfortable in wvw you'll notice playing around teammates on necro is huge and is a big difference between a good and average necro.

Scourge is different than most necro specs, since despite having a lot of the same common issues with reaper and core, scourge has a lot of options open to it at any given point. And to play it well when you're outnumbered (in my admittedly biased option) takes time and practice. And even if your playstyle is different than mine or someone else's, doesn't mean you're wrong. It's just different interpretations of the class.

[ArlAlt.1630]

@"Helly.2597" said:With the patch coming out, I had told myself to actually give scourge another chance after the shade change. While it's relatively early on (and I can't predict how the meta will shift after future changes) I believe scourge has a place again in roaming. I'll post an updated build once I have more than one day back playing scourge and after testing a few things out. But here's a video.

While I acknowledge that people will point out low ranks on opponents (turns out the I can't demand high ranks engage us) firebrands in party (of which Ranno is playing symbol brand) and the other necro (playing core power) as reasons why the video is a poor representation of the ability. But feel free to test out scourge yourself and let me know how it feels.

As always feedback/comments/rants are welcome.

I wish they would greenlight alliances already so we can finally get to team up with you guys.

[Nimon.7840]

@Xenic.1387 said:@"Helly.2597" I'm new to WvW and love Scourge. I was struggling a bit last night to find a comfort zone. Can you recommend a build and gear set for me? I would be in a smaller group, likely 10-12 people, that runs around and assists bigger parties. I believe they called us a 'havoc' group. My job would be to put pressure on the other team with condi and boon rip plus be able to support and obviously stay alive.

Last night I did fine, brought the utility to the fights you would expect, got kills as you would expect, (nothing flashy), but I just don't feel like I'm even close to utilizing the class fully like I can in PVE.

I ran this build http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?PSwAYt/lVweYcsNmJW0X6vKA-e with my plaguedoctors gear set. I have access to full magi, full beserkers, and full vipers right now.

As @"Helly.2597" said. It really depends on your playstyle as well as the groups playstyle.

In groups there's always one doing the shotcalling.If everyone is doing what they want, that's not really a havoc group anymore. That's simple clouding then.

So the usual playstyle is pushing enemies as a stacked together group.Or rangebombing enemies.

You should sit together with the other players your playing with. To find an -for you- optimal build.There's no general rule.

There's some question you have to answer:

1. What's the groups playstyle?
2. What type of damage does the group want to do? (Pure power/Condi? Or mixed?)
3. What other classes do the other players play? (Do you have enough tankyness> boons/healing, or do you already have enough damage?)

For example for "roaming" with my guilds people, usually 4-8people, I run a pretty tanky power reaper as most of them are playing roaming classes with a lot of damage. (http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PSwAEd3lVwcYeMLWJeeTutbA-zRZYBBBJG1cjHBxcGNqCyUKoxZR/lN-e)

In zergs I play either power scourge or hybrid scourge - both valid options. For example: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PSwAYt/lNwQYHsPmJWyPuvVA-zRRYVB5wG1cxHSOKgMlC5KCM5sQ/ZF-e

You see. Some completely different builds.One with a lot of mobility and stunbreaks/condiclears but less damage.The other one pure damage but heavily relies on support.

[Xenic.1387]

Thanks for the feedback. I think for our groups I would likely be playing in more of a support role, so I'm probably going to go scourge / Soul Reaping / Blood Magic. I just crafted a set of Dire gear and I'll work on Apothecary next. Until I have Apothecary ready, I can swap in a few pieces of Magi just to get some healing power.

Which Apothecary pieces should I use and which Dire? I was thinking Dire Helm, Chest, Pants. Apoth Shoulders Gloves Boots. Does that sound right?

[Helly.2597]

@"Xenic.1387" said:Thanks for the feedback. I think for our groups I would likely be playing in more of a support role, so I'm probably going to go scourge / Soul Reaping / Blood Magic. I just crafted a set of Dire gear and I'll work on Apothecary next. Until I have Apothecary ready, I can swap in a few pieces of Magi just to get some healing power.

Which Apothecary pieces should I use and which Dire? I was thinking Dire Helm, Chest, Pants. Apoth Shoulders Gloves Boots. Does that sound right?

As Nimon said as well, the exact gear can depend on your group. If youre targeting full support I'm less familiar with the exact stats. I usually get to around 26k hp and then have a healing power target in mind. For full support it'd probably be 750-1k healing power but other would know better than me there.

And new video is out. I've mostly settled on a build so I'll post it soon.

[Xenic.1387]

Thanks! I actually watched that this morning :)

[Yasai.3549]

Scourge has always been pretty strong in smallscale.They tend to get picked on hard though.

I feel like, once again, the nerfs to Power straight up buffed any classes that previously died to power burst.Like in the 2nd video, that poor FA Weaver barely dealt any meaningful bursts, only managing to get a down due to Scourge's pretty mediocre sustain.

[Xenic.1387]

haha yeah I noticed that too. Burst was way down compared to pre-patch

[Helly.2597]

@Yasai.3549 said:Scourge has always been pretty strong in smallscale.They tend to get picked on hard though.

I feel like, once again, the nerfs to Power straight up buffed any classes that previously died to power burst.Like in the 2nd video, that poor FA Weaver barely dealt any meaningful bursts, only managing to get a down due to Scourge's pretty mediocre sustain.

Scourge without support in small scale isn't a completely popular choice. For exactly your second point. But I agree it fills its role extremely well and imo is stronger without a support than people think, mainly cause it scales to fight sizes really well.

Scourge is definitely the best example too since especially since the shade change burst and cc eats you up. You can live through them now and as long as you have a moment to get elite and a shade off you have a chance to recover.

That ele mainly lost cause his build wasn't bursty enough tbh. Which is cause he relies on lightning rod (and wasn't taking fa) but he was using scp/f not the imo better d/f for that trait.

[Za Shaloc.3908]

Sand snakes huh? Kinda cool to see that skill used, tbh I always thought it was a bit of a meme even though the barrier gain is respectable.

[Yasai.3549]

@Helly.2597 said:

That ele mainly lost cause his build wasn't bursty enough tbh. Which is cause he relies on lightning rod (and wasn't taking fa) but he was using scp/f not the imo better d/f for that trait.

Ah didn't notice he was using Lightning Rod until I watched the video again and saw the small dazes and stuff which inflicted Weakness.Would yu have lost if he was FA?How does this build fare against hard all in bursts in general?

[Helly.2597]

@"Pterikdactyl.7630" said:Sand snakes huh? Kinda cool to see that skill used, tbh I always thought it was a bit of a meme even though the barrier gain is respectable.

Barrier can get up to 8k if you hit 5, and it pairs well with abrasive grit imo. But it's also a huge unblockable aoe that is a base 10s poison so it's especially nice on downs with how oppressive rezzing is atm. I usually choose that or poison cloud depending.

@Yasai.3549 said:

@Helly.2597 said:

That ele mainly lost cause his build wasn't bursty enough tbh. Which is cause he relies on lightning rod (and wasn't taking fa) but he was using scp/f not the imo better d/f for that trait.

Ah didn't notice he was using Lightning Rod until I watched the video again and saw the small dazes and stuff which inflicted Weakness.Would yu have lost if he was FA?How does this build fare against hard all in bursts in general?

Yeah, it isn't a usual choice for the weapon set. I would've thought he was fa if I hadn't fought him before.

A good FA player would kill me I think. If I'm using weakening shroud it's probably closer. This one would've been using ether heal, which cleanse like 5 condis over the channel, so if he's fa and keeps that I've gotta really focus on interrupting that. It's winnable but probably 65-35 ele favored maybe worse though I haven't done a lot of scourge duels since the patch tbh.

I haven't done a ton of duels against burst since the patch tbh. My expectation is you'd probably do better than expected, but you're susceptible to cc combos if you waste a stunbreak due to the CDs. And it's punishing if you get knocked/moved out of your shade and get cc'ed. But if you can get decent weakness uptime and force their stunbreaks you can burst them down as well with condis.

[Waisenpai.6028]

But your real skill is team playing with VT. You guys know each other before this game eh?> That kind team work is the exception factor. Pre nerf 1v1 you are stil hard to beat but again its the magic of team play :) That is what makes VT special and great positioning. I keep telling the causl wvws with cookie cutter builds not to jump out to fight you guys.... they become dead extras in the video. I am sure you got me more than a dozen times in your team vids after you guys left BP.. But before that I remember we used to have fun and play together haha ;) Cheers and keep up the great vids.. they are priceless finds nowadays.

[Xenic.1387]

I think I settled on my support build for our smaller groups (5-10 people). Thoughts? Suggestions?

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PSwAYt/lNwQYSMPmJW0T/vKA-zRhYMJxQUiU7gLpgqCjMIwjAY0nXHA-e

[Helly.2597]

@Waisenpai.6028 said:But your real skill is team playing with VT. You guys know each other before this game eh?> That kind team work is the exception factor. Pre nerf 1v1 you are stil hard to beat but again its the magic of team play :) That is what makes VT special and great positioning. I keep telling the causl wvws with cookie cutter builds not to jump out to fight you guys.... they become dead extras in the video. I am sure you got me more than a dozen times in your team vids after you guys left BP.. But before that I remember we used to have fun and play together haha ;) Cheers and keep up the great vids.. they are priceless finds nowadays.

BP that's an old one haha. For the pass. It certainly helps we've played together a long time. I'm one of the newer members and I've been in vT since 2014 I think haha.

Don't discourage them! I need content.

@"Xenic.1387" said:I think I settled on my support build for our smaller groups (5-10 people). Thoughts? Suggestions?

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PSwAYt/lNwQYSMPmJW0T/vKA-zRhYMJxQUiU7gLpgqCjMIwjAY0nXHA-e

I'd still take soulreaping over curses. Soulreaping is too value in scourge since it effects all f abilities. And with healing scourge you can get +10% healing from it. For scourge, I still recommend taking the lower punishment cd over barrier on shade use since it really makes a difference. In blood magic if you're using transfusion take the rez well trait (first tier top) since it allows you to rez pretty much anyone. I would use a second stunbreak over the snake ability for skills as well. I don't know what runes are best, but I suspect that monk or mercy are better than scourge runes and should be relatively cheap.

[Xenic.1387]

@"Helly.2597" said:I'd still take soulreaping over curses. Soulreaping is too value in scourge since it effects all f abilities. And with healing scourge you can get +10% healing from it. For scourge, I still recommend taking the lower punishment cd over barrier on shade use since it really makes a difference. In blood magic if you're using transfusion take the rez well trait (first tier top) since it allows you to rez pretty much anyone. I would use a second stunbreak over the snake ability for skills as well. I don't know what runes are best, but I suspect that monk or mercy are better than scourge runes and should be relatively cheap.

I was going back and forth between Soulreaping and Curses. I couldn't decide lol. I was going to try the snake for the extra barrier.

Based off your recommendations, I think this would be my next starting point http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PSwAYt/lZwQYPMPmJm6XavMA-zRhYMJxQUiU7gLpgqCjMIwjAY0nXHA-e

[Helly.2597]

@Xenic.1387 said:

@"Helly.2597" said:I'd still take soulreaping over curses. Soulreaping is too value in scourge since it effects all f abilities. And with healing scourge you can get +10% healing from it. For scourge, I still recommend taking the lower punishment cd over barrier on shade use since it really makes a difference. In blood magic if you're using transfusion take the rez well trait (first tier top) since it allows you to rez pretty much anyone. I would use a second stunbreak over the snake ability for skills as well. I don't know what runes are best, but I suspect that monk or mercy are better than scourge runes and should be relatively cheap.

I was going back and forth between Soulreaping and Curses. I couldn't decide lol. I was going to try the snake for the extra barrier.

Based off your recommendations, I think this would be my next starting point

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PSwAYt/lZwQYPMPmJm6XavMA-zRhYMJxQUiU7gLpgqCjMIwjAY0nXHA-e

Soul reaping wins out almost exclusive on scourge cause it lowers the CDs for everything so much. I would take dhummfire over eternal life, since it procs on f uses and on the shade placement. They nerfed the duration but it's still a good chunk of dmg. I would keep the scourge heal over the well heal (sorry if I wasn't clear).

[Xenic.1387]

@Helly.2597 said:

@Xenic.1387 said:

@Helly.2597 said:I'd still take soulreaping over curses. Soulreaping is too value in scourge since it effects all f abilities. And with healing scourge you can get +10% healing from it. For scourge, I still recommend taking the lower punishment cd over barrier on shade use since it really makes a difference. In blood magic if you're using transfusion take the rez well trait (first tier top) since it allows you to rez pretty much anyone. I would use a second stunbreak over the snake ability for skills as well. I don't know what runes are best, but I suspect that monk or mercy are better than scourge runes and should be relatively cheap.

I was going back and forth between Soulreaping and Curses. I couldn't decide lol. I was going to try the snake for the extra barrier.

Based off your recommendations, I think this would be my next starting point

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PSwAYt/lZwQYPMPmJm6XavMA-zRhYMJxQUiU7gLpgqCjMIwjAY0nXHA-e

Soul reaping wins out almost exclusive on scourge cause it lowers the CDs for everything so much. I would take dhummfire over eternal life, since it procs on f uses and on the shade placement. They nerfed the duration but it's still a good chunk of dmg. I would keep the scourge heal over the well heal (sorry if I wasn't clear).

OH I thought in order to make good use of transfusion you needed well of blood. That was the main reason I didn't take it in my original build. I didn't think a stationary heal would be smart for these types of fights.

I wasn't sure on dhummfire either. I never know if I'm actually using it right when I scourge. Does it proc off every press of F1, F2, F3, F4, F5 or only F1?I know there's an ICD. Just wasn't sure which F key proc'd it because it says only shroud skill 1.

[Helly.2597]

@Xenic.1387 said:

@Helly.2597 said:

@Xenic.1387 said:

@Helly.2597 said:I'd still take soulreaping over curses. Soulreaping is too value in scourge since it effects all f abilities. And with healing scourge you can get +10% healing from it. For scourge, I still recommend taking the lower punishment cd over barrier on shade use since it really makes a difference. In blood magic if you're using transfusion take the rez well trait (first tier top) since it allows you to rez pretty much anyone. I would use a second stunbreak over the snake ability for skills as well. I don't know what runes are best, but I suspect that monk or mercy are better than scourge runes and should be relatively cheap.

I was going back and forth between Soulreaping and Curses. I couldn't decide lol. I was going to try the snake for the extra barrier.

Based off your recommendations, I think this would be my next starting point

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PSwAYt/lZwQYPMPmJm6XavMA-zRhYMJxQUiU7gLpgqCjMIwjAY0nXHA-e

Soul reaping wins out almost exclusive on scourge cause it lowers the CDs for everything so much. I would take dhummfire over eternal life, since it procs on f uses and on the shade placement. They nerfed the duration but it's still a good chunk of dmg. I would keep the scourge heal over the well heal (sorry if I wasn't clear).

OH I thought in order to make good use of transfusion you needed well of blood. That was the main reason I didn't take it in my original build. I didn't think a stationary heal would be smart for these types of fights.

I wasn't sure on dhummfire either. I never know if I'm actually using it right when I scourge. Does it proc off every press of F1, F2, F3, F4, F5 or only F1?I know there's an ICD. Just wasn't sure which F key proc'd it because it says only shroud skill 1.

Nope, transfusion just needs the trait that gives you the well when you go for the Rez which you now take.

Dhuumfire technically only procs on f1 (manifest sand shade) but using any f ability procs manifest sand shade on each of your shades and so as long as the icd is up you will get dhuumfire on f ability use (unless I'm wildly out of date).

[Waisenpai.6028]

Great content as always.. I wish spvp can be fun like that sadly it's not T____T

[dceptaconroy.7928]

Nice work mate. Keep bustin out the vids, a good watch.

[Helly.2597]

@Waisenpai.6028 said:Great content as always.. I wish spvp can be fun like that sadly it's not T____T

Thanks!

Spvp is fun. Just has a different feel. Wvw just has that level of uncertainty and unpredictablity that I enjoy. I keep telling myself I should start doing spvp again, but since I only can play once a week it is difficult to make the change haha.

@dceptaconroy.7928 said:Nice work mate. Keep bustin out the vids, a good watch.

Thanks! I'll do my best haha.

[Helly.2597]

New video is out.